If the Dwarfs do get a new book, what would you change?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**spankyspank**

I say Slayers get a 6+ Ward Save. And more war mechine runes... Like... the Rune of Move and Shoot!

(ok lame name, but you get it)

**Milisim**

Iron Breakers need to be more of an Anvil.

Flame Cannon needs to NOT suck.

Better BS on Quarrellers would be nice.

**Dr. Cheesesteak**

I'll just quote myself from this thread... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/421360.page

I also believe they'll have a big kit. An animated rune construct or steam tank make sense, like Zeke and Flashman said. And also, as Flashman said, army-wide Stubborn would be awesome and still make sense. I've wanted it before I even played my Dwarfs. If GW feels the need to balance it out, then nerf some runes, maybe, or increase overall pt cost of most units.

I think an interesting rule would be instead of Ancenstral Grudge - Hating O&G only - , have a "Remember the Great Book of Grudges" rule. Any time the Dwarfs play against Skaven, O&G, any Elves, WoC, or Ogres (does that cover about all the proper grudges? Or is that too many? lol) Dwarfs get a +1 to hit against those armies. A bit OP'd I admit, but heck, the Dwarfs take their grudges seriously... maybe to make it less OP'd have it be +1 for first round of combat only. Or force the Dwarfs to take a Ld Test first or something similar.

Also, since Dwarfs have such a high resistance against magic, why should they be affected by the Winds of Magic? I say Dwarfs get 2 Dispel Dice every Magic Phase for each unit on the field and ignore Winds of Magic rolls by the opposing player. Again, OP'd, but GW can always balance it by increasing pts value of units or nerfing runes.

+1 hit to half the opposing armies, army-wide Stubborn, and broken Dispel Dice rules. I'm like the Matt Ward of WHFB! (ok, I can't hate on Matt Ward's codex-writing too much, since he did a superb job on WHFB 8th Ed, imo)

But really, army-wide Stubborn is the only "must" I think that should be in the book. However, GW decides to compromise/balance it out, I'm not sure if I even care. But Dwarfs never flee unless dammit! ...unless it's a strategic advantage, of course

**Son_Of _Deddog**

Not a lot. Make Slayers and Ironbreakers more use. Make some points adjustments here and there, leave runes system well alone. I would like to make gyrocopters better-they could be our version of Pegasus Knights (Ironclad Gyrocopter?)-although maybe the 40 Ork Deffcopter would be a better comparason..

**spankyspank**

Milisim wrote:Iron Breakers need to be more of an Anvil.

Flame Cannon needs to NOT suck.

Better BS on Quarrellers would be nice.

i keep hearing that the Flame cannon is a must... but the rule is Iffy

Quarrellers?.... who uses them? i field 50 Thunderers.

**SilverMK2**

I'd make them taller.

**spankyspank**

We got a funny guy in here.. ha ha ha...

**rockerbikie**

I would like to see Slayers as a core unit.

**ZebioLizard2**

I'd like to see some new weaponry on the dwarves a bit, I know the empire is the main issuer of "Let's throw it at the wall, and if works for a few days, we'll arm everyone with it"

But I'd like to see some advancements for the weapons, rune weapons for not just the commanders, but being able to equip runes to ironbreakers (Armor and weapon runes maybe?)

Or different types of new grudge based rules. Dwarves hate not just greenskins, they hate everyone they have grudges agains

**spankyspank**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:I'd like to see some new weaponry on the dwarves a bit, I know the empire is the main issuer of "Let's throw it at the wall, and if works for a few days, we'll arm everyone with it"

But I'd like to see some advancements for the weapons, rune weapons for not just the commanders, but being able to equip runes to ironbreakers (Armor and weapon runes maybe?)

Or different types of new grudge based rules. Dwarves hate not just greenskins, they hate everyone they have grudges agains

Huh.... i could see the long beards having runes... never thought about that before...

And goodpoint on the Grudge rules.....
"Dat Git Stole me Grog!"
Put that name in the Book of Grudges!!!

**ZebioLizard2**

spankyspank wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:I'd like to see some new weaponry on the dwarves a bit, I know the empire is the main issuer of "Let's throw it at the wall, and if works for a few days, we'll arm everyone with it"

But I'd like to see some advancements for the weapons, rune weapons for not just the commanders, but being able to equip runes to ironbreakers (Armor and weapon runes maybe?)

Or different types of new grudge based rules. Dwarves hate not just greenskins, they hate everyone they have grudges agains

Huh.... i could see the long beards having runes... never thought about that before...

And goodpoint on the Grudge rules.....
"Dat Git Stole me Grog!"
Put that name in the Book of Grudges!!!

Even runes across the army, I wouldn't mind either way

As for grudges, they even invaded a small castle owned by the empire, because a century ago their ancestors cheated them of 5 gold (or was it 10..) And killed everyone there.

**Milisim**

I use Quarellers with GW all the time.

Those little buggers have decimated WoC Knights!

I dont leave home without at least 12.

Nothing wrong with a good old crossbow... Not like these young whipper snappers with the bofangled blunderbusses!

**Grey Templar**

Hammerers need to be Str4. That way they could at least do some damage to the unit they are attempting to tarpit.

Runes,

Runesmiths should have "Wizard" levels for the purposes of dispelling. Each has a basic level and can purchase additional runes that increase the bonus.

Dwarves keep their natural +2 to dispel.

A Runesmith dispels like a Wizard and can purchase additional +1 bonuses for 20 points each to a maximum of 4, for a maximum total of +6 to dispel(2 base, 4 purchased bonuses)

So you choose which Runepriest you will dispel with and add his bonuses as well as the base bonus for being Dwarves.

There should also be some sort of possable backfire that can happen. Maybe if a Runepriest rolls Triple 1s the dispel attempt automatically fails?

Dwarves need a big monster/machine. I'm thinking possably a Zeppelin with an Organ gun on it(can swap it for other warmachines maybe?) or a giant Dwarven Steamtank.

**ZebioLizard2**

Hammerers need to be Str4. That way they could at least do some damage to the unit they are attempting to tarpit.

They are S4 with a great weapon, what are you talking about? If your talking about ironbreakers, they are S4 too.

Runesmiths should have "Wizard" levels for the purposes of dispelling.

They count as level 4 for the purposes of dispelling (2 normal, +2 dwarf dispel), and can take a rune for +1, and steals a power dice to make another dispel, and the anvil buffs em up more in dispelling. They are good now

There should also be some sort of possable backfire that can happen. Maybe if a Runepriest rolls Triple 1s the dispel attempt automatically fails?

That..happens now already, it's called dispel disruption in the rules.

**spankyspank**

I would have to agree with Grey Templar,

A Runesmith dispels like a Wizard and can purchase additional +1 bonuses for 20 points each to a maximum of 4, for a maximum total of +6 to dispel(2 base, 4 purchased bonuses)

When i play against players with magic, i do feel a lil worryed. but thats what the spell breaking rune is for

That, and a few Cannon balls down that magic castin'..

Dwarves need a big monster/machine. I'm thinking possably a Zeppelin with an Organ gun on it(can swap it for other warmachines maybe?) or a giant Dwarven Steamtank.

Bwwaaaa hahahahahaha! Sounds good to me!

**Grey Templar**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Hammerers need to be Str4. That way they could at least do some damage to the unit they are attempting to tarpit.

They are S4 with a great weapon, what are you talking about? If your talking about ironbreakers, they are S4 too

**ZebioLizard2**

Grey Templar wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Hammerers need to be Str4. That way they could at least do some damage to the unit they are attempting to tarpit.

They are S4 with a great weapon, what are you talking about? If your talking about ironbreakers, they are S4 too

yeah, I meant Ironbreakers.

And I guess we misread the rules then if they are Str4 too. Nevermind then.

**Formosa**

simpley give the iron breakers what they have in the fluff

Front rank has Sheild/HW, every rank after the front has a spear, now that is an anvil unit

I also want Golems (rune powered)

Organ gun to remain auto-hit

flame cannon goes back to how it was

Hammerers with runes

NO for the love of god NO magic phase

Handgunners going back to move and shoot (this one will never happen agai lol)

BS4 qaurellers (been doin it a few hundred years, yet cant aim like a 30 year old human champ)

**ZebioLizard2**

I also want Golems (rune powered)

I would mind this a bit, as golems are what used to define chaos dwarves a bit more from standard dwarves. What with the chaos magic infusing things.

Though the iron daemons they have now are kinda awesome. Molten iron chaos daemons..Forgeworld needs to do all the undivided chaos stuff. For reals.

**Grey Templar**

Runic banners would be a cool idea.

Call them Runic Emblems.Certain units can take a number of Runic Emblems on its Banner bearer up to a certain point total. If a unit has a Runic Emblem they cannot have a magical banner. No unit can have the same Rune twice and you cannot have more then 2 of the same Runic Emblem per army.

Rune of Burning(Flaming attacks): 10 pts

Rune of Smiting(+1A): 20 pts

Rune of Grudges(Hatred): 30 pts

Rune of Strength(+1Str) 40 pts

Rune of Duty(Stubborn: 40 pts

Rune of Protection(Magic Resistance(3): 20 pts

Warriors may have a Runic Emblem with a single Rune worth up to 50 pts.

Ironbreakers may have a Runic Emblem with up to 2 Runes worth up to 50 points.

Hammerers may have a Runic Emblem with up to 2 Runes worth up to 50 points.

and so on.

**DukeRustfield**

All those stupid runes are gone. That's what I want to see. They have a magic item list list anyone else.

Runeprists are wizards who inscribe and forge runes. Like the anvil has been doing for ages.

Every time a dwarf player complains not to touch their runes, you lose one more rune. Once it goes negative you become Orcs.

Dwarves hate not just greenskins, they hate everyone they have grudges agains

And goblins don't just fear elves they fear anything that can kill them. But dwarfs aren't robots buzzing around without brains or opinions, just a book of grudges with listings all of equal values. If they expended all their resources equally among their grudges their race would die out. "Should we kill those greenskins who just slaughtered half our family?" "No, I have a blood-hate against this stool for tipping over last night while I was drinking, I'm going to whittle it into a backscratcher!"

**ZebioLizard2**

If they expended all their resources equally among their grudges their race would die out.

You know, I'm betting that's kinda why they are dying out You know, like fluff says, what in between the fact they won't let go of long ago grudges, between the fact they won't leave their ruined lands due to pride, due in part they refuse to just accept help from anyone else... They are dying out, and the fluff tells you straight up its because they are expanding their resources due to stupid grudges, considering some thanes have even declared wars on the Empire, their own very powerful ally, because some person or king snubbed them in some stupid, minor way.

Not exactly a dwarf player or fan are you?

**DukeRustfield**

They're dying out because they are fighting numerous hordes concurrently that vastly out-reproduce them. If a grudge was a grudge was a grudge they would be essentially mindless, spending as much resources waging war against the storm clouds that ruined their football game, as the orc in front of them. They wouldn't dying out, they would be dead.

All armies have fluff reasons for fighting all armies, including themselves. Empire is one of the biggest fighters of Empire. Otherwise if you had 3 Elf armies at your gaming shop they'd sit around and dance with each other all game, which doesn't even require D6. "Damn, another draw!" That is nothing unique with Dwarfs, everyone is like that for the game to function.

**Revenent Reiko**

In that case, have the Dwarf army pick one unit in the enemy army (possibly randomly determined?) that they have a special 'grudge' against and give them some sort of bonuses against that unit in combat....or maybe make them purchase a book of grudges to do something similar...

im also against them getting some big construction or flying machine just because 'everyone else has one'...

my £0.02

**Pob82**

1 Death rollers as monstrous cavalry
2 A Beer Wagon.. pushed like a screaming bell making the unit unbreakable and having a 12 inch bound stubborn rune.
3 Iron breakers more useful possibly +1 attack
4 Master Engineers actually do something good (anything would be nice)
5 Slayers 5+ ward for war paint

Other then that I think the prices of stuff in the current book are pretty close and the the rune system is excellent.

**ZebioLizard2**

im also against them getting some big construction or flying machine just because 'everyone else has one'...

I didn't know gyrocopters moved along the ground.

Though I'm not sure how a grudge mechanic would work. Maybe instead of it being an active power to begin with, if they begin to kill dwarves you begin to gain bonus' to troops, along with empowering the grudge thrower "Oi! We need bigger rocks to write all these names down!"

I wouldn't mind runes that are activated during the magic phase. Though rather than working like a lore of magic, they work instead as an equippable thing for troops, which can be boosted in the magic phase with winds of magic. Or runes that can grant spell like effects when boosted to the unit in question. I just don't want a true Lore of Magic phase, that's all that's being asked, these are dwarves, not chaos dwarves afterall.

**Revenent Reiko**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

im also against them getting some big construction or flying machine just because 'everyone else has one'...

I didn't know gyrocopters moved along the ground.

I direct you to a comment from earlier in the thread from GT...

Grey Templar wrote:
Dwarves need a big monster/machine. I'm thinking possably a Zeppelin with an Organ gun on it(can swap it for other warmachines maybe?) or a giant Dwarven Steamtank.

**Formosa**

Revenent Reiko wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

im also against them getting some big construction or flying machine just because 'everyone else has one'...

I didn't know gyrocopters moved along the ground.

I direct you to a comment from earlier in the thread from GT...

Grey Templar wrote:
Dwarves need a big monster/machine. I'm thinking possably a Zeppelin with an Organ gun on it(can swap it for other warmachines maybe?) or a giant Dwarven Steamtank.

"Giant Dwarven" lol, so normal sized then

**Revenent Reiko**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Though I'm not sure how a grudge mechanic would work. Maybe instead of it being an active power to begin with, if they begin to kill dwarves you begin to gain bonus' to troops, along with empowering the grudge thrower "Oi! We need bigger rocks to write all these names down!"

i definitely wouldnt go down that road....imagine the shenanigans a MSU army could pull with this...love the 'bigger rock' idea though!

I wouldn't mind runes that are activated during the magic phase. Though rather than working like a lore of magic, they work instead as an equippable thing for troops, which can be boosted in the magic phase with winds of magic. Or runes that can grant spell like effects when boosted to the unit in question. I just don't want a true Lore of Magic phase, that's all that's being asked, these are dwarves, not chaos dwarves afterall.

i just dont see Dwarves using the winds of magic like that, seems far too close to a 'Lore of Magic'...maybe activated runes yes, but one use only, one per unit sort of thing...

Formosa wrote:
Revenent Reiko wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

im also against them getting some big construction or flying machine just because 'everyone else has one'...

I didn't know gyrocopters moved along the ground.

I direct you to a comment from earlier in the thread from GT...

Grey Templar wrote:
Dwarves need a big monster/machine. I'm thinking possably a Zeppelin with an Organ gun on it(can swap it for other warmachines maybe?) or a giant Dwarven Steamtank.

"Giant Dwarven" lol, so normal sized then

LOL!

**ZebioLizard2**

i definitely wouldnt go down that road....imagine the shenanigans a MSU army could pull with this...love the 'bigger rock' idea though!

I was thinking more of a "Per Model" basis than "Per Unit"

Something like the kill tally for Epidemus, except in reverse.