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I know this list will seem crazy to some. Just a couple head notes.

Broadsides, commander, and pathfinders are deployed. Kroot outflank. Suits deep strike. FW's and Piranhas are normal reserve.

The commander holds most of the army back until turn 3 or 4. The FW's use the pathfinder's DF's. The suits all deepstrike with re-rolls on scatter due to the DF's.

I am preparing for the Ambassdorial Tourney. I got the Tau army slot. http://www.40kambassadors.com/

++++ [HQ] ++++

Points: 71
% of Army: 3.55

Unit cost: 71
XV8 Shas'el
--- [TL Flamer, Positional relay]

++++ [Elites] ++++

Points: 613
% of Army: 30.65

Unit cost: 201
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]

Unit cost: 201
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]

Unit cost: 211
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, TL Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]

++++ [Troops] ++++

Points: 402
% of Army: 20.1

Unit cost: 145
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod]

Unit cost: 60
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 60
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 137
11x Kroot
--- [Kroot rifle]
10x Kroot Hound
--- [Fangs]

++++ [Fast Attack] ++++

Points: 484
% of Army: 24.2

Unit cost: 150
2x Piranha
--- [Fusion blaster, 2x Gun drone, Disruption pod, Targeting array]

Unit cost: 167
6x Pathfinder 'la
--- []
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Sensor spines]

Unit cost: 167
6x Pathfinder 'la
--- [Pulse C./ Marker]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Sensor spines]

++++ [Heavy Support] ++++

Points: 430
% of Army: 21.5

Unit cost: 215
XV88 'ui TL
--- [TL Railgun, TL Plasma rifle, A.S.S., HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]
XV88 'ui
--- [TL Railgun, SMS, A.S.S.]

Unit cost: 215
XV88 'ui TL
--- [TL Railgun, TL Plasma rifle, A.S.S., HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]
XV88 'ui
--- [TL Railgun, SMS, A.S.S.]
-----------------------
Total model count: 70


I hope this format works, in case it looks bad, i am working on it to make it look better.

Thank you for looking,
Waffles

I see you are planning on abusing positional relay rules. I would still not put a TL flamer on the 'el, the BS4 is just too good to waste, give him something with some range, even if it was just swapping his gear to a random suit and the suit's gear to him.

Two pathfinder squads might be a bit much, and only 4 railguns may be a bit lacking.

Otherwise, good luck!

Lol, abusing? i am not sure if that is a joke or not. in either case, the TL flamer on the 'el is a bit of a shame, but i needed to shave points and my HQ has to stay in back and hide for 3 out of 4 missions at the ambassadorial tournament I am attending.

The pathfinder squads I am tempted to go to squads of 4, but I want the two DF for they have the marker beacon on them. That grants me a huge leeway on deep striking so much suit power.

4 rail guns lacking? Most of the time I see 3-5, one or two of them with a railhead. I can see about adding more, but where would I take the points from?

Positional relays are the best. It gives Tau a fighting chance against some pretty good armies.

4 Broadsides is fine. He's got a lot of ultramobile suits and he only needs to pop a couple transorts at a time so they can wash it with plasma and Melta fire. The target lock should allow him to fire at four targets if he needs to and he's no doubt hitting on 2's.

I'd think about taking 5 hounds and turning them into flechette dischargers for the Pathfinder devilfish's, and also the Piranha's as they are the likely ones to be at the fore of the battle.

jazzpaintball wrote:Lol, abusing? i am not sure if that is a joke or not. in either case, the TL flamer on the 'el is a bit of a shame, but i needed to shave points and my HQ has to stay in back and hide for 3 out of 4 missions at the ambassadorial tournament I am attending.

Your Shas'el can still jump-shoot-jump, which you could embellish with a twin-linked missile pod if you keep him stuffed in the backfield.

The pathfinder squads I am tempted to go to squads of 4, but I want the two DF for they have the marker beacon on them. That grants me a huge leeway on deep striking so much suit power.

Twin-linked plasma rifles? Not to sound like a downer, but there's not much in the weight of fire department, especially if the enemy unit is in cover. You don't really need Black Sun Filter's either, since the maximum range on them is 24" and you're deepstriking them.


Also, I see no bonding knives, so if those suits/infantry get knocked down to 25% and run, they can't regroup.

KplKeegan wrote:
Twin-linked plasma rifles? Not to sound like a downer, but there's not much in the weight of fire department, especially if the enemy unit is in cover. You don't really need Black Sun Filter's either, since the maximum range on them is 24" and you're deepstriking them.

Also, I see no bonding knives, so if those suits/infantry get knocked down to 25% and run, they can't regroup.

Lol. The Blacksun filter is for allocation magic, obviously. But you're right he doesn't need it on the crisis units anyways other than the fact that he has to have three systems.

As an aside thought:

The Super Eclipse Mission may make that piece of wargear useful even coming from reserves. http://www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php

Jancoran wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:
Twin-linked plasma rifles? Not to sound like a downer, but there's not much in the weight of fire department, especially if the enemy unit is in cover. You don't really need Black Sun Filter's either, since the maximum range on them is 24" and you're deepstriking them.

Also, I see no bonding knives, so if those suits/infantry get knocked down to 25% and run, they can't regroup.

Lol. The Blacksun filter is for allocation magic, obviously. But you're right he doesn't need it on the crisis units anyways other than the fact that he has to have three systems.

As an aside thought:

The Super Eclipse Mission may make that piece of wargear useful even coming from reserves. http://www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php

Eh, how much allocation magic can you have with only three models? And if there's night fighting the WHOLE game, I'd really give them to the Broadsides and Hammerheads and Pathfinders...

4 models, actually. And when they are as important to the list as these are, you do what you can to keep them shooting.

There isn't nightfighting the whole game. You can read the mission if you want to.

And youre missing it. The BS filter was just the cheapest thing he could put as a third system on the suit. It's just a place holder. Since the suit cant take a Multitracker meaningfully (becauase of TL) he took the BS filter.

Maybe drop a hound and pony up for a flammer over the blacksun filter....it could actually come in handy. And I would go BC/PR/MT over that any day of the week.

I agree. The flamer option would be better. Don't wanna give up too many hounds though. so he's got a few choices to make here.

Jancoran wrote:4 models, actually. And when they are as important to the list as these are, you do what you can to keep them shooting.

At least give them bonding knives. Their only pumping out six shots a turn, somethings going to maul them.

There isn't nightfighting the whole game. You can read the mission if you want to.

And youre missing it. The BS filter was just the cheapest thing he could put as a third system on the suit. It's just a place holder. Since the suit cant take a Multitracker meaningfully (becauase of TL) he took the BS filter.

Turns two and five. Two complete turns where his guns will do nothing, and the latter turn could be a game breaking event where his best guns are out of the fight.

Tun_Tau wrote:Maybe drop a hound and pony up for a flammer over the blacksun filter....it could actually come in handy. And I would go BC/PR/MT over that any day of the week.

This definately. Wound shenanigans don't work on small Crisis Suit Squads. He should pump out as many shots as possible, since they're doing a good protion of the infantry killing.

I can definitely do a few things, but others are going to be harder.

I can put BS filters on the broadsides. I just have a to drop 1 hound to do so.

As far as bonding knives. I dont really think it is worth it. I wound allocate everything. Not really to keep one person alive, but rather to keep the unit alive. 25% is all of one model. putting a bonding knife on the one would meant hat I would have to try to the dickens that the one guy with the bonding knife survives so that when/if he runs, he can regroup. I have seen those suits in action, and they dont falter from shooting, they falter from getting into close combat. At that point, no bonding knife will really help me due to the fact that there is an initiative roll off. With the suits being an initiative of 2, they usually can not get away....

The other thing is the idea of going to more shots in the suits than less quality shots. My army is designed against marines. since most tournaments will have 50+% marines, its a good guess on what I am gonna go up against. With wound allocation, it is both my enemy as well as my friend. The reason I deep strike is that I can take out something in the open. I can choose my targets any where on the board, not just what my weapons can reach. With a squad of 10 jump pack marines with a librarian/character/anything. This is by numbers on what happens: The numbers will be a bit favoring the roller (ie one 1 in 11 dice, not two 1's)

I shoot 4 marker lights in and get 2. one of the marker lights will be used for each team.

between the two teams: 7 out of 8 TL-PR hit
3 out of 4 PR hit
both TL-FB hit
11 hits wounding on 2, 10 wounds.

now after that, he now has to k\pick up 10 marines due to the fact that he can not make saves on.

now the same goes for a bc/pr/mt and a fl/pr/mt squads
still have a marker light each
squad 1) 6 out of 9 BC shots hit
2 out of 3 PR shots hit
both PR wound, 4 BC wound

squad two) flamers touch 18 (6 from each)
2 out of 3 PR shots hit
both PR wound, 9 flamers wound.

I have succeeded in causing a lot more wounds. 4 ap 2 and 13!! ap 5

17 wounds compared to 10 is AMAZING, but here is the crappy part... wound allocation.

11 marine models 1 plasma on the flamer. 1 plasma on the melta. 9 others across. 1 more plasma on the famer and melta, and the remaining 4 on the standard guys.

well, the melta and the flamer definately go down. now there is 11 armor saves on the standard jump packs. 3 of them go down. (again, using favoring dice) and lets say the special character takes a wound.

With the more wounds (NEARLY TWICE AS MUCH!!) he has effectively lost 5 models instead of 10. Guess what, Marines dont fall back every often. so a suit team is getting assaulted with 6 marines instead of 1......

Now, tell me again why you would want more low AP shots mixed in with my expensive plasma rifle shots?

Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

Looks like the usual Jazzpaintball list

jazzpaintball wrote:

Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

Yup. Also, don't you think with bringing 12 pathfinders that twin linking all your PR will go in vain? Why not pick up a FB with them? Since you plan to be Deepstriking anyway. 3 AP 1 and 2 shots, hitting mostly on two's and wounding on two's, might outperform just a single PR. Just a suggestion. Or are you just trying to save the points on the MT?

Vectorz wrote:

jazzpaintball wrote:

Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

Yup. Also, don't you think with bringing 12 pathfinders that twin linking all your PR will go in vain? Why not pick up a FB with them? Since you plan to be Deepstriking anyway. 3 AP 1 and 2 shots, hitting mostly on two's and wounding on two's, might outperform just a single PR. Just a suggestion. Or are you just trying to save the points on the MT?

That was what i did when i started to evolve this list. The only problem is that people are scared of pathfinders (and for good reasons, lol) and are usually the first things to get shot at. because of that, I can never rely on them in turn 3 and 4 when my crisis suits come in.

The pathfinders are mostly there to take away cover on specific models in early game for my broadsides: GK's autocannon dreadnaughts, flat out stormraven, smoked vehicles that contain especially nasty things. They indeed help when crisis suits come in, but there are less of them and 3+ with re-roll means nearly everything hits, 3+ without means only 4 out of the 7 shots hit.

I have been thinking about going to a single 8 man squad of pathfinders and save a kill point and about 20 overall points, but i am a bit reluctant to do so with the mission: Secure the Tarmac ( http://www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php
doing so would leave me with both a weak HQ and a weak fast attack.

One thing I don't understand is how much people under value missle pods, I don't even see a single one in your force? have you thought about using mp/pr/mt? it pumps out more shots than twin linked pr, has a far greater range and keeps your suits at a safe distance so close combat isnt an issue, plus its a cheaper suit. just a thought

AHH yes, the dreaded fireknife suit. I have used them greatly, but i had one problem after another with them: wound allocation.

It was the same problem, I would shoot in and do plenty of wounds due to the strength 6 and 7 combination, but the problem was that the ap 4 on the missile pod would haunt me due to marines 3+ armor save.

Now instead, I negate their armor by dropping in 2 or 3 suit teams on a lonely area with 2 small squads of marines, or 1 big squad. With all ap 1/2 weapons, I annihilate them and get ready for the others coming after the suits.

The other way around, I can cause wounds, but the 3+ save would grant very little models to actually get plucked off, leaving me to flail with my suits or to go forward and risk getting assaulted by jump marines.

also, I have no idea what you mean by it being a "cheaper suit"

FOR ANY MODS OUT THERE, DELETE THE NEXT PART IN QUOTATIONS IF THIS IS NOT ALLOWED DUE TO SHOWING OF POINTS, PLEASE LEAVE THE REST

"MY SUIT:
BASE - 50
TL PR - 30
Blacksun filter for wound allocation - 3
TOTAL: 83

YOUR SUIT
BASE: 50
PR - 20
MP - 12
MT - 5
TOTAL: 87"

Your suit at 87 points costs 4 more points than mine at 83. Now it is not a big difference, but how is this a cheaper suit? Even with a flamer or a MT (just for wound allocation purposes) it would still be 3 and 2 points cheaper respectively.

I am confused by your math.

As a fellow Tau player I've always been really curious to try out a list like yours. I have imagined some difficulties with it though.

What do you do against warp quake armies or the tyranid thing that does the same thing as warp quake?
What do you do against super fast armies that will just boost to your board edge on turn one (dark eldar)?
What do you do against true horde armies that will just cover the entire table?

Also, depending on the terrain, its going to be really hard to completely hide your HQ from the 3 Devastator squads/loota squads/dreadnaughts/ etc and it only takes one failed save to ruin your plans.

I'm not saying your list is bad, actually, I really really like it (and think its good) and want to try it (or something like it) and I'm just playing the devil's advocate and thinking of things that could go wrong.

my apologies, i compared it to the PR/FB/MT suit doh!!! you make valid points but both versions are bummed when it comes to the new 5th edition catch all. COVER SAVES! on a side note, MP is awesome for transport hunting

snufflelupagus wrote:As a fellow Tau player I've always been really curious to try out a list like yours. I have imagined some difficulties with it though.

What do you do against warp quake armies or the tyranid thing that does the same thing as warp quake?
What do you do against super fast armies that will just boost to your board edge on turn one (dark eldar)?
What do you do against true horde armies that will just cover the entire table?

Also, depending on the terrain, its going to be really hard to completely hide your HQ from the 3 Devastator squads/loota squads/dreadnaughts/ etc and it only takes one failed save to ruin your plans.

I'm not saying your list is bad, actually, I really really like it (and think its good) and want to try it (or something like it) and I'm just playing the devil's advocate and thinking of things that could go wrong.

Just remember one thing: Tau are a very very playable, but they are a finesse army. Things going wrong means devastation.

I will go down the list.

Against warp quake and the like armies are a bit of a challenge. Instead of bringing in my suits to devistate a squad, I will usually bait in a quake dealer and bring in the suits behind them. I am not possitioning my self very well for initial shots, for I will only get three the first turn. But i make sure I am 15 inches away and then drop in. With the dual Marker beacons on the field, I can usually get there safely. The first round is not as hard hitting, but as he turns around to come after me, I can now hit him harder, and even better, move in the assault phase away from him. Against nids, its abit harder due to fleet, but still doable thanks to the 24" range and the suits being relentless.

Super fast armies like storm ravens and dark eldar are not as bad as most people think. Due to the fast moving vehicles (transport wise) having an AV of 11 or 12, my broadsides can open them pretty easily. I use the marker lights I have for turn 1 to take away their cover save (either entirely or on a 6). then the broadsides usually have no problem after that on opening up the cans, especially dark eldar since my broadsides get a +2 on the damage chart, making even a glancing 4 devistating for anyone who moved flat out.

Against true hordes, I just bend over and kiss my butt good bye. lol. I still give up a fight, but with this list it is a bit hard. The one advantage I have is that horde armies keep moving further, especially if my broadsides are near/on an objective. This gives my deep striking suits a chance to get a hold of a back field objective and hold it until a devilfish with FW's can get there and control. Granted, I have a bit easier time since adding my kroot squad in. 63 WS4 ST4 attacks on a charge will hurt any green tide squad. but still does not make up for the overwhelming armies.

Yes, my commander is sometimes a bit hard to hide, but really I just need him to survive through turn 2. Usually he can do so, especially when i have him attached to a broadside unit. Still tempted to try and attach an ethereal to one of the broadside units, but can never find the points to try it out.

So in short, I have a lot of difficulty with hordes, but fast and warp-quake armies are more manageable than you might think. I just have to say in tournaments, I dont really see warp-quake armies since they are a bit more specialized, and thank goodness for that.

Interesting. Tau will never beat a horde army no matter what you do. I tend to think, for your typical Tau list, that Warp Quake armies are your best matchup. I tend to crush Grey Knights (of all flavors) pretty badly. I think I'm going to build your list and play it this week at my FLGS against some MEQ army and see how I do.

snufflelupagus wrote:Interesting. Tau will never beat a horde army no matter what you do. I tend to think, for your typical Tau list, that Warp Quake armies are your best matchup. I tend to crush Grey Knights (of all flavors) pretty badly. I think I'm going to build your list and play it this week at my FLGS against some MEQ army and see how I do.

Go ahead and give them the waffle's special, lol.

Just let me know how it went.

jazzpaintball wrote:I know this list will seem crazy to some. Just a couple head notes.

Broadsides, commander, and pathfinders are deployed. Kroot outflank. Suits deep strike. FW's and Piranhas are normal reserve.

The commander holds most of the army back until turn 3 or 4. The FW's use the pathfinder's DF's. The suits all deepstrike with re-rolls on scatter due to the DF's.

I am preparing for the Ambassdorial Tourney. I got the Tau army slot. http://www.40kambassadors.com/

++++ [HQ] ++++

Points: 71
% of Army: 3.55

Unit cost: 71
XV8 Shas'el
--- [TL Flamer, Positional relay]

++++ [Elites] ++++

Points: 613
% of Army: 30.65

Unit cost: 201
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]

Unit cost: 201
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]

Unit cost: 211
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Fusion blaster, TL Plasma rifle, HW Multi-tracker]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, BS Filter]
XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Drone controller, Shield Drone]

++++ [Troops] ++++

Points: 402
% of Army: 20.1

Unit cost: 145
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod]

Unit cost: 60
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 60
6x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 137
11x Kroot
--- [Kroot rifle]
10x Kroot Hound
--- [Fangs]

++++ [Fast Attack] ++++

Points: 484
% of Army: 24.2

Unit cost: 150
2x Piranha
--- [Fusion blaster, 2x Gun drone, Disruption pod, Targeting array]

Unit cost: 167
6x Pathfinder 'la
--- []
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Sensor spines]

Unit cost: 167
6x Pathfinder 'la
--- [Pulse C./ Marker]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Sensor spines]

++++ [Heavy Support] ++++

Points: 430
% of Army: 21.5

Unit cost: 215
XV88 'ui TL
--- [TL Railgun, TL Plasma rifle, A.S.S., HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]
XV88 'ui
--- [TL Railgun, SMS, A.S.S.]

Unit cost: 215
XV88 'ui TL
--- [TL Railgun, TL Plasma rifle, A.S.S., HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]
XV88 'ui
--- [TL Railgun, SMS, A.S.S.]
-----------------------
Total model count: 70


I hope this format works, in case it looks bad, i am working on it to make it look better.

Thank you for looking,
Waffles

HQ: Even though you're using the ninja strategy, I would recommend giving your commander some bite, and upgrading him. At this points level, you have to make sure he survives...or the strategy you're basing your list on will fall apart. It is a lot more expensive, but I recommend a Shas'O with Positional relay, Plasma rifle, Missile pod (the range keeps him safe) Multi tracker, iridium armour and 2 shield drones. Despite it being ~twice the cost, it will survive and kill, will soak up damage with two 2+/4++ drones, and will live long enough to use your positional relay. Remember, bringing in only one unit per turn means you will need him to be there for a fair amount of time.

Elite: I do not understand why you would do this with your suits. For one thing, all the squads are the same, which is never a good thing. For another, they are too heavily specialized. For ANOTHER, TL is not something that is generally a good idea with tau weapons. What you're doing with your Team Leaders is powerful, just not for the amount of points you pay. The only weapons worth TL'ing are MP and flamer, and flamer only on cheap suicide suits. There are 4 loadouts that, having played for a while, I support (this is for standard suits, commanders is a different topic): PR+MP+MT, PR+BC+MT, PR+FB+MT, TLMP+flamer. Pick three and stick with it YMMV

Troops: You can afford to drop one unit of FW. Also, as much as I love kroot, carnivores are better than hounds. it's okay to take SOME hounds, but really, they're not going to thin your opponent sufficiently before they attack to make a difference, plus they can't thin them out with their shooting, and I6 GK will be a bitch either way. Because anything charging you will probably either have so many numbers thinning them won't matter, or will be wearing PA, or will be I5. More carnivores is usually the way to go.

Fast attack: actually, not that bad. But switching a unit of pathfinders for a second piranha squadron might be a good idea, it depends on your play style. Also, I've found the FD almost always make their points back, especially in a squadron, since more vehicles=more flechettes. I've found that, especially against orks, two or three flechette dischargers is strong enough to make them take a Ld test, which can prevent their assault from happening wholesale.

Heavy support: You do not, ever ever ever, want to take plasma on your broadsides. SMS is great, and free. All you need is either A.S.S, TL or TA as an upgrade, with a Team Leader who brings two drones. Do not take multiple upgrades, and do not take multi-trackers. If you're firing at a vehicle, used Railguns. If you're firing at infantry, don't, unless he has no vehicles, and use SMS.

Will do. I've been playing Tau for awhile and recently entered a 2k point tourney and went 2-0-1 with a bit of luck and a slightly unorthodox list. I think I should start writing up some battle reports, I don't see many reports from the Tau perspective that aren't yours.

Hordes are actually a fairly easy target for tau. All our guns wound them on 3s/2s, and we ignore their armour, have great range, and pretty decent dakka...plus, we have the mobility to avoid assaults, and can field a half-decent horde unit of our own (kroot)...we eat hordes. Plus, good armour saves on everything helps.

To Hazard:

You have a few decent points in there, but some things I just can not fathom.

Not taking plasma on broadsides? Usually I am taking all four suits with plasma, but since I am stretching for points, I decided to go this route. I never want my broadsides to get assaulted. So why on earth would you not put one of the greatest deterrents on them? Besides, when shooting at an incoming 3+ save squad, I do not want them to be able to wrap wounds with missiles.

Again, with the elites, they are set up so that wound allocation can not help the enemy. I stated this before. I am all for changes, but please state WHY something is better than what I have

The troops i think would be a bad idea to drop. If you look at the missions i am facing, several of them have A LOT of objectives (six in one alone). I do not wish to give up a troop for this tournament. A standard tournament maybe, but not this one.

Fast attack, Definitely a decent idea. I would need to buy another piranha ( I only have 3 at the moment), but is definitely something i have not really considered. Especially if I drop a FW squad it would be highly considerable.

lastly with the HQ: What you have there was my original list. A very heavy HQ that no one could touch. The only problem was that he was a heavy target. The more I cheapened him, the more people did not care about him, especially with pathfinders and broadsides on the board. Through trial and error I have found that the cheaper HQ was the best route to go.

Thank you for the suggestions, but i have to throw out the HQ and Broadside ideas just because I have worked with them long enough to find out that they work for me. The troop idea would be fantastic, but i have to have it with these circumstances. lastly, I will have to give the second squadron of Piranhas a really hard thought over due to it benefiting me in a few of the missions.

Thank you for your ideas.

Well with the HQ, there is always the middle ground. The points of the other suggestion was to provide an HQ who is almost unkillable, guaranteeing that your positional relay stays on the board. You can always give him TLMP a flamer and a positional relay. That would allow him to snipe form 36" away, in area terrain, and flamer would decourage/thin out assault. Because as is, he is basically a 70 point positional relay, and can't do anything else, or survive anything else.

If you have a six objective game, then the FW spam might be a good idea, but I stand by my kroot suggestion: carnivores>hounds.

For elites, your suit configs are simply inefficient. Having one as a team leader (but without any other differences) is enough to save you a suit per game, in the right condition, you don't need all three to be different. Plus, as any veteran tau player will tell you, losing a suit is not a big deal. YOur suits have no teeth. Cottonjaw made a thorough analysis of effectiveness and efficiency of every crisis suit config against every enemy type, it is very useful, and I will look for it.

Those four configs are good because they are at the peak efficiency for their intended target:

TLMP+flamer is the scariest thing for transports, 1.5 str 7 hits per suit/turn will mulch a medium to light vehicle in a fairly decent turn (4.5 hits) and the flamer discourages/weakens assault, and is very cheap.

BC+PR+MT is great because is has the dakka to thin light infantry, weapons that can wreck light vehicles, and is really good at anti-meq, averaging just under half a tac squad dead per shooting phase (4)

PR+MP+MT is the most versatile suit, perfectly capable of wrecking most vehicles, able to put out decent dakka for anti infantry, anti-meq comparable to BC+PR+MT and huge potential for any role, the only issue is that not being specialized means they cannot excel at anything, really.

PR+FB+MT is one of the best anti-tank choices in the tau codex (behind XV88s, tied with piranhas), able to wreck even land raiders, great for anti-teq, can ID paladins, what's not to like?

I have literally, in about 50 games, a solid 15-20 against hordes never come anywhere close to defeated a true footslogging horde army. It's true, we wound on 2/3 but I challenge you to kills 120 boyz + nob squad + big mek while you have 3 loota squads murdering you. Because when it comes down to it, after you've run all over the table, it just takes about 10 boyz with a nob to kill my entire army in the assault.

On a side note, I really like Jazz's list. Maybe a little too plasma-y a little lights on the missiles for my taste, but I really like it. I want to hear how it goes for him. I like original ideas from a Tau codex that basically has two good units. Maybe two and a half.