Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Dakka

I've decided to liquidate most of my other 40k armies and start the one that i've always wanted (deep down), the Death Korp.
I love the minis, the fluff, the tactics, and the rules, so they are really just perfect for me!

I've written up a 2,000 points list that is mostly a footslogger force as the Korp is known to be, but with some heavy armor support as well.

DEATH KORP 2K

HQ:
Company Command Squad 125 points
Regimental standard
Master of Ordnance
Senior Officer
-Power weapon

Quarter Master xx points

Troops:

1st Platoon 585 points

Platoon Command Squad
2x melta gun

3x infantry squads
power weapon
melta gun
two squads have a commissar, one has a fist, one has a power sword
one squad has a banner (mostly because it's sweet looking!)

2x HWS with 3x lascannons

2nd Platoon 585 points
identical to 1st platoon

Hades Breaching Drill xx points
7 engineers
demo charge

Heavy Support:
3x (each in its own squadron) Leman Russ Main Battle Tank 165 points
Lascannon

2,000 points right on the nose!

Now some thoughts i've had:
I made this list based on some others I've seen on this forum, particularly those blob lists created by Ailaros (sp?) who has done very well with blob guard, and also included the 3x lemans in a list i saw. I liked the idea that the tanks could shelter behind the troopers.

There are some things I'm unsure of however...
Are the blobs too big?
Is the Hades Worth it?
Should i be taking heavy mortars? they seem deadly...

I can provide some of my own observations I made during a game I played against Chaos Marines, I'll provide his list just for reference.

Chaos 2K list (Opponent)
Lord with lightening claws in termie armor
5 terminators with combi meltas, heavy flamer, and power weapons in a land raider

5 chosen

predator destructor and predator annihlator

two squads of ten marines
power fist
rhino
melta guns (2 in one squad)
flamers (2 in one squad)

8 berserkers

6-7 havocs with 4 MLs

I'm pretty sure that was it...
Anyways, we played a game and the blobs really seemed like they needed to be that size or else they would never have been able to last as long as they did or complete thier duties, one was able to destroy the berserkers by charging them, but was then killed to a man by both CSM sqauds (i didn't know you could assault out of rhinos if they hadn't moved ). The other blob got flamered by the termies and eventually the blob and lord + retinue destoryed each other.
I had total armored dominance. My 15 lascannons a turn were too much for his tanks, and they got blasted off the table pretty quick, the drill whiffed against the land raider.
However, i feel that something that'd REALLY add to the power of the blobs would be priests, because time and time again my power weapons and fists would whiff too many of their attacks to bring it home in the to-wound stage.
Another thing I think could be interesting would be a squad of grenadiers, because they seem like they could potentially be very deadly units to get up close and personal wih, BS4 WS 4 with a power weapon, melta guns, and hotshots sounds like a deadly combo to me!

Any thoughts?

Sincere apologies if this seems boggled and very disorganized, because It's rather late and I wanted to get this on the net ASAP!

Thanks for reading (and posting )

P.S 1st platoon carried the day, in the 2 CSM squad combat, everyone but the commissar with fist and a watchmaster was dead, I rolled LD, and failed. The sergeant took a bolt to the head, and the commissar made his second roll! By the way...this was in my assault phase On my next turn...all three battle cannons made the best of the platoon's heroic sacrifice and wiped all 17 of the remaining CSMs!

Heavy mortars are absolutly worth it, So I would drop the drill and take them. But if you can squeece in both it wuld be glorious.

I agree, it'd really be something to have 3 S8 AP 3 large blasts, the master of ordnance, 2-3 S6 AP4 large blasts, and the one time S10 AP1 large blast plus the democharge of course.

However:
For the price of 7 Engineers with a charge, and a drill...i get three heavy mortars.
That seems like it's quite a bit better, especially since I've got TONS of anti-tank in the list, and plenty of anti-meq with the battle cannons.
The mortars might work a little bit better, plus being significantly more reliable than a unit that must come in from reserves and scatters a whole bunch.

What do you think of the 33 man blobs though? Thats is really what I'm worried about...

Ah wel the its setteled then, drop the hades drill and get heavy mortars. Those blobs will do alrigth just make sure to hug cover. And to use evey opportunity to pummel the enemy with massed Lasgun fire from them.

And yes, you have enough AT power to stop just abouyt anything dead in its tracks.

Indeed, the heavy mortars will be far superior at digging my foes out of cover (very fluffly too!)

One more question, it seems that powerfists are sort of crap. At least on S3 models...
If i dropped them both off the commissars and instead gave them power swords I could give a watchmaster in each platoon melta bombs.
Would that be better than the S6? It seems like it'd be more effective vs. heavy tanks and walkers at the least.
Secondly:
Is it even worth taking two commissars per blob? I did it just to get extra power weapon attacks in there, but i could easily use those points else where.

The drill is worth it because it really messes with your opponents head.

Can the heavy weapon teams join the blob in a krieg list? If not, they should be dropped.

All blob commissars should have fists, ifnyour sergeant can take fists too, go for it. The ability to take those fists is what makes krieg the supreme blob list

Have you thought of dropping the leman russ's and geting lots of artillary such as heavy mortors/thud guns/implaced earthshaker cannons so you could just pound the enemy to dust if he doesnt come forward and if he does you lasgun him straight to hell .

Ferrum wrote:For the price of 7 Engineers with a charge, and a drill...i get three heavy mortars...

Remember to factor in the cost of their towing centaur into your equation. If you roll DOW setup its either tow on or deep strike them in. From personal experience the Centuar is the better option as it becomes a handy fast transport for your Command squads.

@Illumini
So in that case would it be worth it to drop one of the commissars
From each blob to give fists to every watchmaster?

As far as army builder is concerned the HWS all
Have the combined squads rule too, but wouldn't I want them to stay independent do that all 4 teams can fire upon different targets than the platoons?

I agree that the drill is psychological, and it did hell
During the game I played. I think I'll play test both the drill and the mortars some more to see which is better.

@Commissar Rhodes
I did think about the inclusion of many heavy artillery pieces, but I think that the Lemans offer a few things that the emplacements cannot, the AV 14 which means that enemy return fire is...less of an issue, and mobility + tank shock.
The emplacements are cheaper, and do shoot bigger shells, but I just get the feeling a trio of Lemans might be more useful overall.

@Hesh_Tank_On
I did not realize I'd need to buy tractors too...especially if I'd need 3 to field 3 mortars as individual units as I'd planned.
In that case it might be better to just combine them into one unit? Or does that not fix the problem? I don't really have much wiggle room in the list.

Ferrum wrote:@Illumini The emplacements are cheaper, and do shoot bigger shells, but I just get the feeling a trio of Lemans might be more useful overall.

@Hesh_Tank_On
I did not realize I'd need to buy tractors too...especially if I'd need 3 to field 3 mortars as individual units as I'd planned.
In that case it might be better to just combine them into one unit? Or does that not fix the problem? I don't really have much wiggle room in the list.

Unfortunately it is one tow per gun and the emplaced guns suffer the same problem in DOW.

You can attempt to deep strike turn 1 in DOW but I take it you will be trying to deploy behind LOS obstructing cover near your board edge with one of the blob squads camping in and around the cover, with my dice success doesn't come often using this tactic.

I find the Centaur quite good, its a fast transport when not towing and because its open topped those Melta gunners in the command squads can jump down in front of it and hopefully get in melta range sooner.

I think its a poor DOW deployment rule for immobile artillery, much better would be if they were deployed normaly but unable to fire first turn ( setting up/ bringing forward ammo/ ranging in)

Heavy weapon squads on their own die from a stern look or a stiff breeze. When you can slap them in a blob they suddenly become very scary. When you also can load up the blob with powerfists, it becomes even more scary.

I think your initial idea of blobs + russes is a better way to play this list than starting to add very fragile artillery pieces. You need to consider which HQ's and russes will aid you the most.
Of the HQ's, I like the CCS, the commissar-general with camo-cloak and the quartermaster. CCS provides orders, commissar-general gives stealth to the unit he joins and the quartermaster gives FNP. Hard to choose only two.

I think the best leman russ for your list may be the Exterminator. Slap a hull lascannon and possibly also some type of sponsons on it, and you have a nice light/medium tank hunter. Perfect for popping transports.

One commissar per blob is plenty.

Why would you make a DkoK list without mortars and artillery?

There Codex gives them awesome advantages with them and you aren't bringing any?

Silentway wrote:There Codex gives them awesome advantages with them and you aren't bringing any?

Genuine question, apart from them being elite slots, whats are the awsome advantages, I like using 2 heavy mortars and 1 Thudd Gun but the Heavy Mortar is just an immobile Griffon with less armour.

@Ferrum : Also try and keep the Hades, contesting/capturing an objective is easier with it and the engineers rather than footslogging across the board. Especialy if you get to remove the two story ruin it was positioned on top off.

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:

Silentway wrote:There Codex gives them awesome advantages with them and you aren't bringing any?

Genuine question, apart from them being elite slots, whats are the awsome advantages, I like using 2 heavy mortars and 1 Thudd Gun but the Heavy Mortar is just an immobile Griffon with less armour..

Good point, I don't play DKoK but from what I gathered from the Codex is the DKoK favored mortars. Pure opinion but I don't have the codex right in front of me to reread it either.

@ Hesh Tank On
I simply cannot afford to pay the points for three centaurs in order to include three mortars. It is extremely frustrating that those little tractors (extra killpoints IMHO) cost so many points and don't seem worth it at all.
The situation would be very different if my command squads could take lascannons, but alas, they cannot, and so I cannot make as good use of the heavy weapon hull mount of a centaur.

@ Illimini
The problems I see with sticking them into a blob are:
1. Inability to make use of splitting fire (all four teams could shoot at seperate targets if seperate squads, in a blob this is lost, correct?)
2. Inability to FRFSRF with the blob and use the lascannons against tanks.
3. Inability to assault and shoot at tanks/terminators (the latter of which would greatly benefit the blob in the forthcoming assault)
4. Inability to run with blob and fire lascannons

Pros:
1. They cannot be shot
2. Can get cover from the troopers being in cover (but can be obscured by them anyways sooooo...)
3. Can benefit from commissar's LD
4. Can wound soak...i guess
5. Can benefit from FnP along with a blob (not so hot if they aren't being shot anyways)

There are benefits to each usage, but seeing as how they are the primary source of AT in my list, wouldn't the flexibility of keeping them de-blobbed be preferable?
In the game I played they were de-blobbed, but i was able to keep them obscured by either command squads or troopers all game, and the QM kept any injured squads alive with the wondrous 4++ cover 4+++ FnP combo

On to your other points!

I agree that the Lord, the CCS, and the QM are the superior choices, however, with the Regimental standard flying high and LD 9 stubborn I think that the major benefits of a Lord are wasted. On top of that, the QM takes his spot anyways

Hmmm...TL heavy 4 autocannons? hmmmmm.....they seem to put out quite a lot of fire! 12 shots, ~ 9 hits at S7. They seem like they'd be very good at armor suppression, which is a vey different role than the LRMBTs filled in my list (MEQ squashing)
This is a hard choice, because it seems that the best meta breaker LR is the exterminator simply because as you said it ravages light tanks, but with the lascannons I should already be damaging 3-4 AV 11-12 vehicles a turn (I think...), and then the exterminators would just fill that same role but be crappier at it due to lower strength, yes they are TL, but two teams of lascannons will be too due to Bring It Down! I also like that the teams can crack open a rhino, and my battle tanks can pulp whatever was inside

I shall proxy exterminators next game and see what happens!

@Silentway
What advantages?
The only good parts are:
Are not tanks so can hide really easily
Are elite choices

Yet almost 100% of the time I'd rather have a self-propelled gun, it can deploy normally, has some more armour, and tank shock.

@Hesh Tank On
I plan to keep the Hades if i must otherwise take atillery with those tractors to tow them, thats really not at all appealing to me.


List revision!

2,000 points

HQ
CCS 95 points
Regimental Standard
Power Sword
Meltagun

Quartermaster xx points

Troops

2 Platoons 585 points

Command squads
2x melta guns
power weapon

3x infantry squads
meltagun
power fist
One in each plattoon has a: Power Fist Commissar and a plattoon standard

2x Lascannon teams

Hades Drill 180 points
10 Engineers
Demo Charge

Heavy Support

3 squadrons of a single LRMBT or LR Exterminator (same cost) 165 each
Lascannon

No point in taking 10 engineers. They are there to give you the drill and maybe do some damage with the demo charge afterwards.

The problem with not putting the HWS into the blobs is that they are instant killed by S6 shooting. S6 shooting is not exactly rare, and most armies at 2000pts will be able to totally wipe out all your HWS' in 1-2 turns. Doesn't matter if they can split fire if they are dead.
Now, of course, you have the bonus with combined squads that you can wait with this decision. If you're up against something like that chaos list, with little long range firepower, you don't have to put them into the blob. If you are up against mech IG or GK's with 30+ S6+ shots, you can put them into the blob.

The main advantage of the commissar-general is his camo-cloak, which can apparently cover up to 70+ men. A blob with stealth is very hard to shift with shooting, which is a very nice quality for an assaulting blob. However, it is possibly not worth loosing orders/FNP over. I don't think you can go too far wrong with any two of the three.

I see what you're saying on the engineers, they are only meant to deliver the demo charge and hopefully claim/contest an objective, forcing my opponent to react .

Also I see what you're saying about the heavy weapon squads, against assault armies (orks (few lootaz) CSM, or nids) they can just hang out in back blasting away.

Also it seems that depending on the board they could be very survivable, for example, if there were a source of 3+ cover in my deployment zone they'd do okay there it seems.

I'm seriously considering the lord commissar though, because his granting of stealth would make the unit he was part of MORE resilient than FnP against lots of stuff (S6+), the FnP is really only worth it in CC and against bolters (and equivalents), and heavy bolters (and equivalents) everything else is going to ignore it anyways.

He also beats face with a power fist

Which brings me to a slightly OT problem...where do I get power fists (as in models) for DKoK? They don't come with them...and I don't see anywhere I can buy them, but they do have power swords available. Any ideas? I'd really appreciate it if you knew a way, even if it's just buying tons of plastic ones and converting.

Another quick set of questions:
Are grenadiers worth it?
I was considering 10x grenadiers with 2x melta guns and a power sword. They could provide some decent anti-MEQ and and AT, as well as a possibly useful counter assault.

How about death riders?
I am debating going up to 2.5k eventually and adding a unit of 10 riders with melta bombs and a power sword (so they can still kill after the charge)

Vultures?
They seem really cool especially with the twin linked punisher cannons, a pair of these could certainly lay down the pain.

Thanks for your help