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Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

Welcome to my Fire Hawks Blog!

My original post about the Fire hawks is below, but I thought I'd add a couple of links at the top here for convenience.

Paint a Fire Hawk Contest
Paint a Fire Hawk Contest Rules
Paint a Fire Hawk Contest Entries
Paint a Fire Hawk Contest Winners

Yellowbeard's To-do List




Hello, Dakka.

At the urging of Solar_lion, I’ve decided to start a P&M blog. I hope this blog will give me an incentive to keep painting, and more importantly, that it gives me feedback and advice to improve my painting and modeling. With some patience, a lot of practice, and a little luck, I hope to take these guys to Adepticon next year.

Personal Information

I’m new to Dakka and relatively new to Warhammer. I used to play WH 40k back in 2nd ed. I played Eldar then. But, I left the game and sold my army for financial/temporal/geographic reasons. A couple of months ago, I became interested in the game again, especially with the release of the new Space Wolf and Tyranid models. I managed to get down to Adepticon for a day, and now I’m really excited about it. I’ve never been very creative, but with all of the changes in the hobby over the past 16 years, especially the information available on the web and online communities such as Dakka, I think I can do ok….

Fire Hawks

Not many people seem to play Fire Hawks, and there isn’t a whole lot of information on them out there. As far as I know, though, the first mention of them is in Rick Priestly’s description of the Badab War in White Dwarf 101 back in 1988, so they’ve been around for a while. (You can read Priestly’s description of the Badab War in the first post of Gitsplitta’s Rebuilding the Mantis Warriors.) Of course, the chapter was greatly expanded in Forge World’s IA 9: The Badab War part 1. We do know that they were part of the 26th or “Cursed” founding, two of their homeworlds were destroyed (one in a nuclear holocaust), they fought in the Badab War, they disappeared mysteriously (possibly due to imperial machinations), and their survivors may make up the Legion of the Damned. Some pretty cool stuff, actually. For those interested, you can read more about them at the Lexicanum: Fire Hawks.

Why do I like these guys?

- Relatively Rare Chapter – Not many people seem to play the Fire Hawks, which suggests it will be a little different on the table top.
- Badab War - Yeah, SL got me hooked on the Badab War….
- Color Scheme – I like yellow armor, for some reason, and the original color scheme for the FH was yellow with red flames. (I remember liking back in the late 80s even.) I also like FW’s updated color scheme, too.
- Not Codex – This is just fluff, really, but I think it opens up the possibility of different and interesting armies.
- Fleet Based – I don’t know why; it just appeals to me.
- Close Combat – I like the idea of assault marines… not that I’m any good at close combat, I just liked the image of marines jumping into combat. Plus, you know, jump packs, power swords, and flamers….
- Swords and Dueling – What? I’m German.
- Vindicators
- Fluff – I like a lot of the mysterious background: the cursed founding, the destruction of two homeworlds, nuclear disaster (which goes a long way toward explaining the original mushroom cloud symbol the chapter used), the rivalry between Lazaerek and Huron, the Badab War, the mysterious disappearance, the Legion of the Damned….
- Symbols – I like the image of the phoenix and the idea that the chapter has risen from disaster (nuclear holocaust, Badab War) time and time again and that they might rise again….

Codex?

I haven’t thought too much about army lists yet; I’m mostly interested in fluff and imagery at this point, but I think I’ll play them as Blood Angels. The BA emphasis on assault marines, jump packs, and close combat as well as the availability of inferno pistols seems to fit the FH well. This means I won’t be able to run the FW character, Elam Courbray, but I was thinking I might just convert a model and run him as “counts as” Commander Dante (and just call him Courbray… or Lazaerek?).

That’s it for now. I’m working on a couple of test models, and I’ll try to post some pictures in a day or two. In the meantime, any comments or thoughts about the Fire Hawks are welcome!

This message was edited 26 times. Last update was at 2013/07/29 23:07:25


Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

So, I've started a couple of test models, but I can tell already that I'm going to be disappointed. I'll post a couple pictures later anyway, so that I can get some feedback and advice. For now, however, I could use some help choosing a good color scheme and figuring out how to paint it.

Original Fire Hawks Color Scheme



This image is the original Fire Hawks color scheme published in White Dwarf 101 (1988).

New Color Scheme





These two images show the new Fire Hawks color sheme from Forge World's Imperial Armour 9: Badab War part 2.

So, I could use some suggestions:

1) Which color scheme do you like best ? (Why?)

One thing I was thinking of doing was to paint two color schemes: the new scheme would be for regular marines; the old one would be for veterans and such. I like the effect this kind of two-color scheme has in an army. See, for example, Gitsplitta's Tranquility Snipers in his Mantis Warriors.

2) Do you have any suggestions/recipes for painting yellow?

I've tried one darker scheme, but I think it needs to be brighter for the Fire Hawks.

3) How would you paint the new red (?) color scheme from IA9? There seem to be two colors there: a kind of rust red on the power armor and a darker red on the terminator, but I'm not really sure what shade of red that is. Any ideas on how to achieve a color like that?

Thanks.

Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





The Beach

I actually had planned to reverse the paint scheme years before the IA book presented the new FH scheme, but changed my mind when I decided I just didn't want to paint flames on everything.

But I've always liked the Fire Hawks and the fluff for them. As far as running them as Blood Angels, if you're creative with magnets and model selections you could easily run the army as both Blood Angels and Codex Marines depending on what suited your mood. They you'd also be able to run the FW rules from time to time.

Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

True Scale Space Marines: Tutorial, Posing, Conversions and other madness. The Brief and Humorous History of the Horus Heresy

 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

@Veteran Sergeant: Thanks for the comment. I'll keep that idea in mind.

Ok, so I tried painting a couple of models. These are the first two models I've painted in 16 years. Also, my first attempt at line highlighting (though I don't know if you can see it in the pictures). Also, first attempt at freehand. (Please disregard my pathetic attempt at flames.) (Sorry for the poor quality of photos: phone camera.)











I learned a lot painting these, but I know I have a long way to go....

C&C welcome!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/03 18:16:00


Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Why dont you mix them eg if they were made up of two company's have one with red and yellow flame and then one with yellow and red flame
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine






I would go with the new scheme simply so it doesn't look like you've painted flames on Imperial Fist marines.

The photos of your test figures don't look bad, but they're kinda small, so it's hard to get more than a general idea. I think they might benefit from a darker red tone like you see in the illustration - give a more serious and brutal tone to them with a muted paint scheme.

 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

@warrior lord: that's kind of what I was thinking I'd do: yellow for veterans (so first company) and red for normal troops (2-10 companies).

@Kage: Thanks. Sorry about the photos. I took them with my phone, and that's where I could get them to focus. Definitely need to work on my photography.

I see your point about the yellow armor, though there are other yellow chapters out here, too (Lamenters). But I agree that the ted would be good, especially if it was darker. I think jt needs to be "warmer" too. This scheme was based on the Flesh Tearer scheme (so, prime black, Mephiston Red, Wazdakka Red, Evil Sunz Red highlight). I was thinking of starting out with a darker red (Khorne Red) and then going up a shade or two. I also used Badab Black to wash; I might try Carrburg Crimson next time.

I know nothing about color theory, though. Can anyone recommend an article or a tutorial on it?

Thanks.

Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





why dont you start a legion of the damned with fire hawk shoulder pads?
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Memphis, TN

I like where this is going! Experimenting never hurts. I normally blend washes together and one of my favorites is sephia with about 25% of devlin mud (or whatever it is called) it looks warm and bit darker.

I hope this helps!

Check out this comp!http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/498307.page
My P&M Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/497661.page
2500 Brothers of Sanguinor
2500 Purifiers
750 : Bad Wolves

2 successful trades: TemplarCoyote, blood angel

P.M. for a reference! K.C.C.O.! 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

@eldartau1987: Thanks! I may try that wash blend. In truth, I made a mistake and started to wash the yellow marine with Agrax Earthshade (Devlan Mud) instead of Sepia. I tried to fix a little, but it came dirty and gritty. (not necessarily bad, but I think I want a brighter/warmer yellow.). That mix may do the trick.

@warriorlord: Legion of the Damned are definitely on the list! But, right now I'm working on the Badab War period, so LotD will come later.

If you look at some of the pictures in IA9, you'll see that the marines' boots shade into an ash or bone color.





I'm wondering if FW did that on purpose as a nod the LotD, kind of like the fire is burning up their feet, leaving ash and bone. I definitely want to try that.

Anyone know a good bone color recipe using the new paints? How about ash?

Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in us
Changing Our Legion's Name





You might want to start with an orange or a brown and tint it red to get that rust color. Something like the old Tausept Ochre (Balor Brown now?), with some red mixed in, or perhaps a watered down Carroburg Crimson brushed over it. I'd definitely start with a brown or orange base and add red to taste to get that base color.

As for painting yellow, Averland Sunset really does a pretty decent warm yellow. You could base your flames with that and try Lamenter's Yellow glaze over it if you decide you want a richer yellow. I've also heard that painting white and then applying Casandora Yellow over it can provide a pretty decent yellow color.
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Memphis, TN

arkhamjack is correct with the Casandora Yellow. I am doing an entire GK army like that, just priming white, then air brushing Casadora and finally touching it with a bit of Lamenters, It is cool to see. I am not sure how it will work with your overall scheme though. I think that Averland and washed brown will give you a warmer feel.

Check out this comp!http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/498307.page
My P&M Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/497661.page
2500 Brothers of Sanguinor
2500 Purifiers
750 : Bad Wolves

2 successful trades: TemplarCoyote, blood angel

P.M. for a reference! K.C.C.O.! 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

@arkhamjack: Thanks for the suggestions! I had thought about starting with Mournfang Brown but then put it aside because I wasn't sure where it would go. I like your suggestions about using ochre/brown followed by a crimson wash. That might do the trick. Need to pick up a couple more paints, I guess....

@eldartau1987: i thought about tryin Cassandora Yellow over white, but I thought it might be too pale (based on the White Dwarf article). I hadn't thought of following it with Lamenter's Yellow. Thanks! (but, yellow Grey Knights? )

Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Hey Yellowbeard! Just noticed the link in your sig. Anything I can do to help, just let me know. There's a link to a my yellow tutorial in the OP of my MW page. That's for using the brush method mainly. I can also give you some hits for air brushing yellow if you want to go that route.


   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

@Gitplitta: Thanks for checking out my blog! I'm a little embarrassed to say that I did read your tutorial and used it as a guide. But, I messed up, and for some reason, I decded to wash with Agrax Earthshade (Devlan Mud) instead of Sepia. I also started with grey primer because it's what I had. White, no doubt, would be better. I also need to figure out how to layer paints properly....

Small update for today.

First, a couple of better pictures of the test models:



Stupid mold lines.



Wow. Sloppy. Yellow paint on the copper.





C&C welcome!

Also, I picked up an Army Painter Detail brush this week and practiced a bit painting flames:



It looks a little better at a distance, as the close-up reveals how sloppy it actually is, but I think it's an improvement over this



Remarkable the difference a decent brush can make.

I still need practice, of course; I need to develop more control with my brush. I probably should have started with orange instead of yellow. Also, I need to figure out a good color for the boot, which I want to fade into ash or bone. Ant suggestions?

Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





NOM NOM NOM
lost and damned good lookin
[Thumb - lost and damed.jpg]
lost and damned good looking now in finecast

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

White primer will help *IF* you want a vibrant yellow. Keep in mind that whatever you wash with, you want to take a lot of it off immediately, or it'll just make your yellow look dirty. As soon as you've slopped the sepia on, get the brush very wet and go back over all the high spots and big plates, basically you want to wash the sepia off these areas and leave it only around the edges and underside. Then you need to keep an eye on the fig so the wash doesn't accumulate into big drops, otherwise it'll dry in big brown patches that'll be hell to try and paint over.

   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Green Bay, Wisconson

I think your red is too red. I look at the IA books and see more of a rust red or more of a orange tint to it. IMO this is why the yellow seems to not be as bold and seems to blend in better. I'd follow up with wash of Sepia ( Git explained it best.) Then let dry completely. From there you can continue to specifically apply washes to darken areas.

For the armor Joints I prefer black the drybush the color you want as a highlight. The key is to use a damaged brush that has very very little paint. Using the brush as a “ Duster” to pick up the outer most edges only.

I try mixing a few blends together till you get the color you want for your base. Start there. Flames later.

Lets get together and I can demonstrate some of the techniques I have picked up and think work. You are on the right track and practice makes perfect. also I can bring my AB to do some basecoating once you've determined a case color.


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

I guess the first thing you need to decide is whether you want to model after the original Fire Hawk patterns, or the newer IA ones. All of the IA color schemes are very dull and muted when compared with the originals, and your processes for achieving them would be quite different.

   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Green Bay, Wisconson

I like the new IA look myself. More color contrast. I like the steel look of the Termi helmet. There is some nostalgic appeal to the old color scheme. Though bright yellow will make them look like Imperial fists. The Atomic bomb blast is just not appealing for my tastes ( along the lines of " space sharks or flame anything). In all ...do what your excited about. It’ll keep you motivated and trying new things.

As always let me know if you need anythihg

SL

 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

@SL and Gits: Thanks, Gentlemen, that is very helpful.

These two models were very much practice models. So, for example, when I did the joints, I painted them black followed by a Hashut Copper drybrush. They came out nice (better on the red than the yellow). But then I workde some more on the yellow and got it on the copper....

As for color scheme, I actually like both of them. My thought was to do red for ordinary troopps and then use the yellow for veterans. Gits. I really like the effect the tranquility Snipers has in your mantis Warriors and was thinking of creating something similar. I agree, though, the mushroom cloud is a bit much. (I get it now, with the destruction of Zhoros, but I may use it for a banner rather than shoulder pads.)

SL, I agree that the red is too red. I don't really like the orangey-rust on the power armor, but I do like the deeper red on the termi. It's a warmer red. arkhamjack suggested starting with an ochre or brown base and then washing with red to build that color. I may try that. On the other hand, I could see going with something bolder. For example, something like James Wappels' BloodAngels for the red or Wappel's Imperial Fists for the yellow. I really like the purplish red he achieved on the Blood Angel assault squad, even if it isn't really the IA red.... Wappel is way beyond my skill level, but I might be able to achieve something similar.

Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Green Bay, Wisconson

Really? .. nothing like setting the bar high.. I like in his IF he painted the lames in the dreads leg. WOW! Get painting!!

Wappel's BA ...The red is on the blue side, not the yellow . Certainly would give it a different look. You could try washing your red with a blue or purple wash instead of brown.

SL

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/07 19:01:24


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

Piece of cake Yellowbeard.... you can wip out one of those in an evening after work!

   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

Yeah, I know, right? Eyes bigger than stomach...

Wappel describes his process for the red here. I think it comes down to this:

Scab Red (Khorne Red) + Rotting Flesh (Nurgling Green) base (1:1?)
Add Rotting Flesh in for highlight layers
Scab Red + "ivory" (Bleached Bone?) final highlight

Thin Ogryn Flesh (Reikland Fleshshade) + Baal Red (Carroburg Crimson) "transparent glaze" wash (1:1?)
Add Baal Red in increasing "purity" (red)
Baal Red + Asurmen Blue (Drakenhof Nightshade) wash
Baal Red + Badab Black (Nuln Oil) final wash

No doubt, Wappel does many more passes than I would, but that general recipe makes sense. What I got from it was the idea of mixing different colors into the red - green and blue. That will create a very unusual color. I never would have thought of that; I would have added yellow or something.

I think two things make Wappels figures really pop: his skill in layering and belnding colors and the details. I don't have any illusions taht mine will look that good, but I might be able to get that darker, purplish-red color.

I'm not sure about the yellow, though in another post, he mentions that he started with Tausept Ochre (Balor Brown) as the basis for a Sanguinary Guard. he's actually painting NMM, here, but the base color is quite yellowish. That's also the color arkhamjack suggested I try as a base for the yellow, and I think Gits mentioned that he starts with a brown base for his yellow, now, too. So, a start, anyway....



Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Green Bay, Wisconson

I started with brown as well. I went with a rust as I think it added more range of depth. I can wash it with sepia and get more color blending. IMO.

Still Wappels is nothing short of amazing.

Good luck and share your tests. be intrested in how it comes out.

SL

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/06 21:31:36


 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

I thought I'd give SL's suggestion of washing blue over red a try:



1. Khorne Red with a Carrouburg Crimson wash (all over)

2. light Drakenhof Nightshade wash over the above and then wiped off [not much difference here]

3. heavier Drakenhof Nightshade wash over above, not wiped off

The second blue wash did have an impact. I'm not sure what I think about it....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/08 18:25:39


Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





nice

thanks for including the old paints names I don't know gak about the new ones

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/08 18:15:32


 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Memphis, TN

Hey duder!
I hope you are well!

The tests do not look cool.

A little bit more info on the yellow.

I was told by our friends at GW HQ down here to start with Lamenters Yellow and they wash with a watered down Cassadora yellow. I did 25 GK this weekend in it and it looks stellar. I will work on getting a pic up to you soon.

the only problem I had is with fuzzy primer in some places.

I hope this helps.

Check out this comp!http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/498307.page
My P&M Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/497661.page
2500 Brothers of Sanguinor
2500 Purifiers
750 : Bad Wolves

2 successful trades: TemplarCoyote, blood angel

P.M. for a reference! K.C.C.O.! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Madison, WI

I think you're going at the red backwards... you're going from light to dark, when it should be the other way around...

   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Green Bay, WI

@eldartau: Thanks. I agree. I'm not happy with the tests either.

One problem I'm starting to see is that there are a couple dozen ways to paint yellow (or red), and each seems to work for that person. I'm not sold on the Cassandora Yellow/Lamenters Yellow over white yet; I think I want it to be a deeper, darker yellow. So, I think I'm going to try Balor Brown (Tausept Ochre)-Averlund Sunset (Iyanden Darksun)-Yriel Yellow (Golden Yellow)-Cassandora Yellow wash (to blend)-Sepia wash in the recesses.

I'd love to see your GK; post them when you get a chance.

Last, "fuzzy primer"? What do you mean by that? Is it the photo or am I doing something poorly in terms of painting?

@Gits: Thanks. I agree with you. This was just an experiment to see what would happen. It's sloppy and "dirty." To get a purplish red, I'm going to have to mix paints, and I'm not ready for that yet. So, for red, I'm thinking Balor Brown base coat and then either shade with red to move toward a reddish brown/rust red color, or, Balor Brown-Khorne Red (Scab Red)-Wazdakka Red (Red Gore) then wash.

Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!

Yellowbeard's Project Log 
   
 
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