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Hi

we came across a situation in our game we wasnt sure how to deal with.
we have 10 warriors v a hive tyrant in close combat, the combat went though with no wounds on tyrant and 1 casualty on the necrons.
end of assault phase the player did the Reanimation roll and got back up, but then we did toxic miasma caused all models in base contact to take a toughness test at end of turn which he failed 9.

in which order would this go would the toxic miasma go before or after the reanimation roll? far as we can tell this happens at the same time, as end of assult phase is the end of the turn. so which rule is applied first?

Oh god....
Not the timing argument again......
This is gonna get messy as this kind of question has been asked before. You could always roll off (as this isint really clean cut) but usually the way I play it at my FLGS is that you can have your reanimation. Kinda rough to lose the entire unit to something like that with not chance to stand again.

I refer you to a similar post about timing. Different question but same premise.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330/445396.page#4218887

Ooops, dropped you in the middle of the thread. Just go to the first page of it to get the gist.

Thanks intreasting read.

I think will will just stick with what you suggested, which is what we did in the game anyway and allow the roll for reanimation after toxic misama

He rolled 9 fives and sixes? Dang, I want his dice.

pottsye wrote:Hi

we came across a situation in our game we wasnt sure how to deal with.
we have 10 warriors v a hive tyrant in close combat, the combat went though with no wounds on tyrant and 1 casualty on the necrons.
end of assault phase the player did the Reanimation roll and got back up, but then we did toxic miasma caused all models in base contact to take a toughness test at end of turn which he failed 9.

in which order would this go would the toxic miasma go before or after the reanimation roll? far as we can tell this happens at the same time, as end of assult phase is the end of the turn. so which rule is applied first?

Ah yes, yet another discussion on the utterly broken timing in 40k.

Anyway. The Toxic Miasma says end of player turn, while the RP is after all morale checks and fall back moves have been made.

You can do this one of two ways:

1. Toxic Miasma goes first, and adds to any casualties incured on the Necron side. Assuming that the Necrons do not fall back, they can then take their RP roll.

2. Take RP, then perform Toxic Miasma, then, in the following movement phase (or even just after the Toxic Miasma), take RP for the casualties suffered from Toxic Miasma.

Option 1 is better because it is more simple. Option two is questionable, to say the least. So, what, casualties caused by Toxic Miasma can't be RP'd away? Yeah right. Though given GW's glorious history of balance throughout Warhammer 40,000, I wouldn't be surprised if Toxic Miasma did not allow for RP or E-L rolls to be made. Sort of like a Tyranid version of Warp Quake; it severely hampers one of the armies main shticks.

Roll off between
1. Roll for RP then roll for toxic miasma and roll again for RP
2 Roll toxic miasma and then roll RP for all casualties

RP/EL counters should be rolled in the turn that caused the casualties. Not the next.

McNinja wrote:

pottsye wrote:Hi

we came across a situation in our game we wasnt sure how to deal with.
we have 10 warriors v a hive tyrant in close combat, the combat went though with no wounds on tyrant and 1 casualty on the necrons.
end of assault phase the player did the Reanimation roll and got back up, but then we did toxic miasma caused all models in base contact to take a toughness test at end of turn which he failed 9.

in which order would this go would the toxic miasma go before or after the reanimation roll? far as we can tell this happens at the same time, as end of assult phase is the end of the turn. so which rule is applied first?

Ah yes, yet another discussion on the utterly broken timing in 40k.

Anyway. The Toxic Miasma says end of player turn, while the RP is after all morale checks and fall back moves have been made.

You can do this one of two ways:

1. Toxic Miasma goes first, and adds to any casualties incured on the Necron side. Assuming that the Necrons do not fall back, they can then take their RP roll.

2. Take RP, then perform Toxic Miasma, then, in the following movement phase (or even just after the Toxic Miasma), take RP for the casualties suffered from Toxic Miasma.

Option 1 is better because it is more simple. Option two is questionable, to say the least. So, what, casualties caused by Toxic Miasma can't be RP'd away? Yeah right. Though given GW's glorious history of balance throughout Warhammer 40,000, I wouldn't be surprised if Toxic Miasma did not allow for RP or E-L rolls to be made. Sort of like a Tyranid version of Warp Quake; it severely hampers one of the armies main shticks.

Well actually, if toxic miasma does in fact state it happens at the end of the player turn, then the RP/EL rolls would happen first since they happen at the end of the phase and a turn cannot be over until all steps of all phases are completed. It's simple order of operations at that point.

I would say the end of phase happens before the end of turn. If it could be argued that the end of the assault phase is the end of the turn, then they would happen at the same time, which is practically the same thing.

So it looks like Necrons do not get EL or RP rolls vs Toxic Miasma.

RP/EL counters are created when a model is removed from play, and it stays there until you roll for RP. So there isn't a problem for the counter to stay until the next turn. But RP isn't WBB. It is meant to be rolled in the same turn of the casualties. Anyone that has played old necs with wbb will agree that this helps the gameplay a lot.

copper.talos wrote:RP/EL counters are created when a model is removed from play, and it stays there until you roll for RP. So there isn't a problem for the counter to stay until the next turn. But RP isn't WBB. It is meant to be rolled in the same turn of the casualties. Anyone that has played old necs with wbb will agree that this helps the gameplay a lot.

Perhaps I'm not understanding you, but this seems to be incorrect. RP and EL counters must be rolled at the end of each phase and removed if the rolls failed. It's not optional to not roll and save of counters or anything like that. You may never roll for counters in a following turn.

Just as you said, you create a counter that is removed when you roll RP. If you never roll they it isn't removed. It stays there and waits an end of phase.

I would suggest a seperate roll after TM but a roll off as I described is more appropriate.

It wouldn't really matter when he makes it in this case. By that time the CC has been decided, he passed his Leadership and takes 9 armor saves.

Then one of the players get their movement phase ... and he gets to make RP at the end of that phase before anyone shoots or any more CC happens.

The turn Ends after the last phase so you did it correctly with the RP and then the Misma.

So would the necrons get the RP roll on the following movement phase? Since there was no phase to roll for RP after the Toxic Miasma, we would have to wait until the end of the next phase.

@Tyrs13 it matters very much if it is the last turn of the game!

McNinja wrote:So would the necrons get the RP roll on the following movement phase? Since there was no phase to roll for RP after the Toxic Miasma, we would have to wait until the end of the next phase.

The RP roll from toxic miasma wounds would happen at the end of the following movement phase.

Kevin949 wrote:

McNinja wrote:So would the necrons get the RP roll on the following movement phase? Since there was no phase to roll for RP after the Toxic Miasma, we would have to wait until the end of the next phase.

The RP roll from toxic miasma wounds would happen at the end of the following movement phase.

Ahh correct, you'd get to roll for EL and RP for which ever phase you consider the models dying in.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

McNinja wrote:So would the necrons get the RP roll on the following movement phase? Since there was no phase to roll for RP after the Toxic Miasma, we would have to wait until the end of the next phase.

The RP roll from toxic miasma wounds would happen at the end of the following movement phase.

Ahh correct, you'd get to roll for EL and RP for which ever phase you consider the models dying in.

Right, and since RP rolls are per phase they wouldn't happen directly after toxic miasma otherwise that would not have been "the end of the round", so the next logical conclusion is end of movement phase on the following turn.

Kevin949 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

McNinja wrote:So would the necrons get the RP roll on the following movement phase? Since there was no phase to roll for RP after the Toxic Miasma, we would have to wait until the end of the next phase.

The RP roll from toxic miasma wounds would happen at the end of the following movement phase.

Ahh correct, you'd get to roll for EL and RP for which ever phase you consider the models dying in.

Right, and since RP rolls are per phase they wouldn't happen directly after toxic miasma otherwise that would not have been "the end of the round", so the next logical conclusion is end of movement phase on the following turn.

Well then... THIS outta blow your mind:
What if you have a ghost ark close. You Ark in rebuild crons at the beginning of the turn. After movement you roll RP and get them all back.... so now you have more warriors than the unit origionally had... What happens.

The world explodes.

gregor_xenos wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

McNinja wrote:So would the necrons get the RP roll on the following movement phase? Since there was no phase to roll for RP after the Toxic Miasma, we would have to wait until the end of the next phase.

The RP roll from toxic miasma wounds would happen at the end of the following movement phase.

Ahh correct, you'd get to roll for EL and RP for which ever phase you consider the models dying in.

Right, and since RP rolls are per phase they wouldn't happen directly after toxic miasma otherwise that would not have been "the end of the round", so the next logical conclusion is end of movement phase on the following turn.

Well then... THIS outta blow your mind:
What if you have a ghost ark close. You Ark in rebuild crons at the beginning of the turn. After movement you roll RP and get them all back.... so now you have more warriors than the unit origionally had... What happens.

The world explodes.

One of two things...remove one token for each warrior over the max that the ark repairs prior to RP rolls.

Or, path of least resistance, the ghost ark can not repair more models than the unit started with and even though they're only tokens they are still technically potentially alive and therefore hold their slot in the unit. (I personally would play it this way, ya it sucks for the necron player but it's the most reasonable and feasible method without breaking or making up rules).

But yes, strictly speaking, the game has broken and you should restart after blowing out the cartridge.

copper.talos wrote:@Tyrs13 it matters very much if it is the last turn of the game!

Thems the breaks for playing the only race that gets a chance to come back from the dead.
Any other army would have just been plain wiped out. We are fortunate to get RP ...

Anyways OP failed 9 toughness checks but you still get armor saves from misma ... now i dont care how badly you roll you cant fail all the saves as well as all the T tests.
So at least 1 warrior would be locked in combat .... 10 warriors or 1 warrior wouldnt matter.

But that is an interesting case with the Ghost Ark, even if a rare one. But i dont think you get the Ark on top of it as you still have tokens in the place of the warriors. Which technically leaves the squad at max size ...
And the ghost ark cant raise it above max. Nor can it save a unit with no standing warriors .... if that were true then we could bring units of 0 back all the time

Tyrs13 wrote:

copper.talos wrote:@Tyrs13 it matters very much if it is the last turn of the game!

Thems the breaks for playing the only race that gets a chance to come back from the dead.
Any other army would have just been plain wiped out. We are fortunate to get RP ...

Anyways OP failed 9 toughness checks but you still get armor saves from misma ... now i dont care how badly you roll you cant fail all the saves as well as all the T tests.
So at least 1 warrior would be locked in combat .... 10 warriors or 1 warrior wouldnt matter.

But that is an interesting case with the Ghost Ark, even if a rare one. But i dont think you get the Ark on top of it as you still have tokens in the place of the warriors. Which technically leaves the squad at max size ...
And the ghost ark cant raise it above max. Nor can it save a unit with no standing warriors .... if that were true then we could bring units of 0 back all the time

Heck if that was the case I'd take 6 units of 0 warriors for 0 points all the time and have 6 ghost arks refilling them from the start of the game. Oh and say hi to my 3 full squads of lychguard I bought by saving money switching to allstate necro-surance.

(yes I know about the starting limit for the squads, let me have my fantasy!)

Anyone else thing the lychguard make better HQ models then the stupid breakable resin?

Active player has priority and places the abilities on the stack as he sees fit.


.... Wait this isn't the Magic the Gathering thread...

lucasbuffalo wrote:Active player has priority and places the abilities on the stack as he sees fit.


.... Wait this isn't the Magic the Gathering thread...

I was just thinking that - TM triggers in the end of turn phase which then triggers the RP at the end of the end of turn phase. - Oh no wrong game!.

Omg this is so confusing.

I maay be alittle out of date, but lest there be a tomb spider or resurrection orb nearby (if that helps) they insta die due to monstrous creature yes? So no gets back upsies!

As for toxic miasma the exact wording is "at the end of each players turn.."
I would interpret that as being "at the end" if the get back up rule is also "at the end" (i dont have the exact wording on me) then it would be something that needs to be decided with your opponent / ref depending on what kinda game were talking about.
If the wording on the gets back up is anything different from "at the end" then Miasma would be first.

Hate necros, unless you make them fall back and theres a tomb lord attached and they all die. aha - hahahaha

maulerw wrote:I maay be alittle out of date, but lest there be a tomb spider or resurrection orb nearby (if that helps) they insta die due to monstrous creature yes? So no gets back upsies!

You do know they have a new codex, right?

And it's not the MC killing them, it's a biomorphi.