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Yessir.

too close IMHO

Hmmm, 16 pages.

So I guess being scared of the new Blood Angels is a popular 40k tactic

I would like to think we've steered the thread in a different direction since the initial histrionics by the scrubs of the Dakka forum.

This is the tactics forum, so what tactics are BA players planning? I am a big fan of the new codex (been drooling over it every chance I get at at FLGS). So much better than PDF version, just a shame that Moriar didn't make it back!
My plan for a 1750 all comers is 3 Baal Preds, 1 LC pred and 1 Vindy. 15 DC with chaplain in LRC. 1 Tactical in rhino. 2 Dreds in pods and 10 sternguard in pod with combi meltas. Cheapo HQ with whatever points might be left (I just wish I had the codex already!) All this talk of termies with LC, TH, and SS with FNP is giving me acronym pain but if I could squeeze them in I would. Been doing a LOT of blood red paint, (some might say too much) but now I just want to scratch build a Storm raven..hmm, if I came up with a self build kit on our company laser cutter I could have three...
Mwhahhaaahaa...
Sorry, feel better now its out of my system : )

Only one scoring unit? Good luck with that...

OK so if points allow I get some 5 man assault squads or even scout squads to sit on objectives.

Definitely going for assault squads in Razorbacks. Nice and cheap, fast heavy weapons. =]

Oshova

Lots of fast tanks for sure. Lots of Dreds too as they seem to be flavour of the codex. Is "wings of Sanguinious" a good option for Libby Dreds instead of puting them in pods? Taking drop pods means they can choose 2 other psychic powers instead, to be extra killy, and benefit from the pods inertial guidance and weapons.

I'm going with flying Librarian Dreads =D should be good fun =p

Oshova

I'm liking the fast Razorbacks a lot. I'm looking at running small Assault Squads with Priests in them but I'm a bit worried about their lack of diversity. They really aren't good at all when they're not up close engaging the enemy and that tends to be a quality that is not desirable for the objective holding units. I'll be testing this list at 1750 in the coming week:

Reclusiarch

3x Sanguinary Priest: 3x Power Weapon

5x Death Company: Power Fist
Land Raider Redeemer: Extra Armor, Multimelta

5x Assault Squad: Melta, Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
Razorback: Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun

5x Assault Squad: Melta, Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
Razorback: Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun

5x Assault Squad: Melta, Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
Razorback: Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun

Baal Predator: Sponson Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator: Sponson Heavy Bolters

Predator: Autocannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters

Moves quick and retains the ability to shoot, and then packs a solid punch up close. the idea is that since all of my infantry have FNP they're going to be fairly tough to bring down when they get out of their tanks. On the way in the Land Raider and Predators front the advance and present their AV13/14 fronts and give at least cover saves to the softer Razorbacks. I get solid firepower on the way in with the Lascannons and Predators. I'm unsure of the proper weapons loadout on the Razorbacks right now. I went with Las/Plas because I'm worried about Tyranid MCs and that feels like the most effective oladout for dealing with them. TL Lascannons seem better against just about everything else though. I don't like paying so many points for an AV11 vehicle but the 35pt discount for the Assault Marines makes it a bit more bearable.

Alternatively it can trade the Land Raider for a Razorback for the Death Company and then trade the Reclusiarch for Mephiston. The Land Raider just feels like it'll make more a difference than Mephiston in a list setup like this since its like a mobile LoS blocking piece of terrain for my other tanks to hide around.

But then they only get one more power to play with that way. Quickening and might of heroes anyone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sanguinary priests are definitely a bargain @ 50 pts, and razorbacks have the bonus of carrying scoring units. Lots of lists I've seen going down that road.
Did I read it right that Sanguinary guard are troops?

how do you guys think necrons will hold up in a game with the BA?? Because Gauss weaponry rules can effectively punch a hole in the Bloodthirsty Dreadnoughts... i might be wrong but if anyone can shed some light on my subject it would be really appreciated... Plus IMO a unit of necron warriors with a Tomb Spyder following it would really screw some of the BA units over, since ive noticed the new BA excel in CC. Plus, on the other hand theres the Monoliths power matrix rule, making sure that they make a clean get away... i need a little help here

Necrons have little that can deal with FNP, and DC dreads are fleet and immune to shaken and stunned results. Your warriors will get assaulted and swept, and you'll be phased out quickly.

Yeah, Blood Angels are totally brutal against Necrons.

eep! so im 100% doomed?!?!

StasisNid95 wrote:eep!

You just have to wait for your turn.

General Mayhem wrote:But then they only get one more power to play with that way. Quickening and might of heroes anyone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sanguinary priests are definitely a bargain @ 50 pts, and razorbacks have the bonus of carrying scoring units. Lots of lists I've seen going down that road.
Did I read it right that Sanguinary guard are troops?

Sanguinary Guard are Elites. If you take Commander Dante then they count as troops.

Caffran9 wrote:I'm liking the fast Razorbacks a lot. I'm looking at running small Assault Squads with Priests in them but I'm a bit worried about their lack of diversity. They really aren't good at all when they're not up close engaging the enemy and that tends to be a quality that is not desirable for the objective holding units. I'll be testing this list at 1750 in the coming week:

Reclusiarch

3x Sanguinary Priest: 3x Power Weapon

5x Death Company: Power Fist
Land Raider Redeemer: Extra Armor, Multimelta

5x Assault Squad: Melta, Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
Razorback: Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun

5x Assault Squad: Melta, Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
Razorback: Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun

5x Assault Squad: Melta, Infernus Pistol, Powerfist
Razorback: Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun

Baal Predator: Sponson Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator: Sponson Heavy Bolters

Predator: Autocannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters

Moves quick and retains the ability to shoot, and then packs a solid punch up close. the idea is that since all of my infantry have FNP they're going to be fairly tough to bring down when they get out of their tanks. On the way in the Land Raider and Predators front the advance and present their AV13/14 fronts and give at least cover saves to the softer Razorbacks. I get solid firepower on the way in with the Lascannons and Predators. I'm unsure of the proper weapons loadout on the Razorbacks right now. I went with Las/Plas because I'm worried about Tyranid MCs and that feels like the most effective oladout for dealing with them. TL Lascannons seem better against just about everything else though. I don't like paying so many points for an AV11 vehicle but the 35pt discount for the Assault Marines makes it a bit more bearable.

Alternatively it can trade the Land Raider for a Razorback for the Death Company and then trade the Reclusiarch for Mephiston. The Land Raider just feels like it'll make more a difference than Mephiston in a list setup like this since its like a mobile LoS blocking piece of terrain for my other tanks to hide around.

Again, an IG army would love facing something like this across the table, as would any mobile close combat army for that matter. Minimum-sized squads and AV11 gun platforms? FNP with the W1 priests completely exposed due to the small squad size? Lulz. Just lulz.`

Are you assuming that I'll just string my models across the table and play in the most unintelligent manner possible? The IG will be shooting through a wall of AV 13 and 14 to get to the Razorbacks who will have at minimum a 4+ cover save from the Preds/Land Raider. It isn't quite so simple to rampage through with an IG army as you might think, especially since my longer range weapons are more maneuverable and survivable than their Chimeras, as well as better against AV 11/12 than their long range weapons (except the Vendettas, they can be trouble).

That said, I don't think my matchup with mech IG is a good one, and I'm fully aware of that.

More CC oriented armies have to catch up to me first, and my tanks movre faster than theirs while maintaining firepower. The army does very well against light armor with Autocannons/Assault Cannons/Las-plas.

I'd also like to point out that I've mentioned several times in various threads on these forums (I guess not this thread specifically yet so here goes) that I'm not convinced of small assault squads really being the best call for the troops slots in a BA army. They are a very one dimensional unit and as a result they lack the flexibility to be effective objective holders like a Tactical Squad.

I'm sorry if I've painted a picture that suggests the list I posted is end all-be all in nature because I'm 110% aware that it is NOT. It simply utilizes a bunch of the new and different-ish stuff that BA get access to. because of this, I like to show it as an army from the new codex. I highly doubt it is optimized or extremely competitive, but that is why playtesting and an open mind are both very important things.

I can see Dark Eldar being a good counter to Blood Angels. They can move at the same speed, but in a more horde-like fashion. With more heavy weapons that count your AV as 12. Loads of Plasma Cannons. Ok so you can shoot down my AV10/11 vehicles, but there's so many that they're going to get you.

I'm finding it hard to find easy ways to play against BA with other armies. Fast CC with more men is always a good way to counter fast CC with MEQ =p

Oshova

Since the Assault Troops jump pack downgrade specifies any dedicated transport, I'm rather chuckling at 225 point Land Raider Crusaders with multimeltas.

You can just about fit 3 scoring 5 man assault squads in 3 Crusaders, 3 Vindicators, 3 Baal Preds and Mephiston into 2000.

I would love to see your opponent's face when you put those 10 models out for deployment =p

Tears for the tear God!

Oshova

Caffran9 wrote:

5x Death Company: Power Fist
Land Raider Redeemer: Extra Armor, Multimelta

ВС can not take LR.



On page 90, there are no Land Raiders =)

Darog wrote:

Caffran9 wrote:

5x Death Company: Power Fist
Land Raider Redeemer: Extra Armor, Multimelta

ВС can not take LR.



On page 90, there are no Land Raiders =)

Sorry, but they can - it states they can take any Dedicated Transport, which Land Raiders are. It then, randomly and for no reason whatsoever, tells you to look at p.90, which is where the non-LR DTs are, by a happy coincidence :p

Aelyn wrote:

Darog wrote:

Caffran9 wrote:

5x Death Company: Power Fist
Land Raider Redeemer: Extra Armor, Multimelta

ВС can not take LR.



On page 90, there are no Land Raiders =)

Sorry, but they can - it states they can take any Dedicated Transport, which Land Raiders are. It then, randomly and for no reason whatsoever, tells you to look at p.90, which is where the non-LR DTs are, by a happy coincidence :p

Any transportation from page 90, but not in general any transport. Why then had to indicate page numbers? In addition, the reference is always clearly indicated on the specific page only.

I'm scared of three vindies moving 12" a turn and dropping pie plates. I'm scared of all the predators that can move 12" and still shoot. This will be nasty.

This is my desperate attempt to get a Dante/Sanguinary Guard Army to work:

-HQ-

Dante = 225

Librarian w/ Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Preferred Enemy Power = 125

-Elite-

Chaplain w/ Powerfist = 125

Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump Pack. Infurnus Pistol, Power Weapon = 100
Sanguinary Priest w/ Power Weapon = 65

-Troops-

5-man Sanguinary Guard w/ Chapter Banner, Powerfist = 240

10-Man Assault Squad w/o Jump Packs w/ 2 Meltaguns, Sergent w/ Hand Flamer, Power Weapon in Land Raider Crusader w/ MM, EA = 475

5-Man Assault Squad w/o Jump Packs w/ Meltagun, Sergent w/ Power Weapon in Razorback w/ Twin-linked Multi-Melta = 180

5-Man Assault Squad w/o Jump Packs w/ Meltagun, Sergent w/ Power Weapon in Razorback w/ Twin-linked Multi-Melta = 180

-Fast Attack-

Baal Predator w/ Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamers = 140

Baal Predator w/ Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamers = 140



Dante joins the Sanguinary Guard as does the Sanguinary Priest and Librarian. It's pricey, but you have an 8 strong unit with plenty of FNP love to pass around. Against Gaurd, you can precision strike two Infurnus Pistols and a Blood Lance. Against Ork Nobs you can take out the Battlewagons with the MM Razorbacks and Blood Lance the Nobz, Taking out the Powerclaws Jaws of the World Wolf Style. The unit should be able to out charge everything in the Space Wolf Codex save Logan, which you already reduced with Dante's Death Mask. Remember the Chapter Banner gives everyone in that squad +1 attack. So on the charge you are talking about 16 Master Crafted Power Weapon attacks, 4 Powerfist attacks, 5 Force Weapon attacks, 5 regular power weapon attacks and Dante's attacks plus 1, all with Furious Charge. The Librarian can give that whole unit Preferred Enemy too in a pinch.

Is all that worth close to 700 points? Probably not. But it is the only way I can think to do it.

I tried the following 2 2dante and sanguinary guard armies out over the weekend

Dante

2 sanguinary priests with jump packs

sanguinary guard with 5 infernus pistols and a power fist

4 squads of sanguinary with 2 infernus pistols and a power fist

2 storm ravens

second list I dropped the storm ravens for 3 5 man missile dev squads and a third sanguinary priest.


His army looked lik such

3 rune priests, jaws/hurricane, jaws/lightning, lightning/hurricane

4 8 man grey hunter squads with 1 melta, mark of the wulfen, each had a wolf guard with fist/combi melta attached
4 rhinos

5 wolf cav with 1 wolf claw, 2 hammers, 2 storm shields

3 squads of 6 long fangs with 5 rocket launchers in each.

Needless to say I got smashed fairly hard.

I think the list idea could be a shock to certain builds, but none of the big power lists.

I think a drop pod librarian could be very useful with blood lance + BA storm caller (i forget the name).. You drop down with say 3 dreadnoughts (take 2 empty pods somewhere) then blood lance on your turn.. Use BA Storm caller on THEIR turn and all your guys get a 5+ cover save which is usually the bane of drop pod armies