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While amusingly facetious I'm thinking it will be more than merely seven times.

There will be the usual people who order them but far more who normally wouldn't will be tempted by having their chapter available.

I have usually scorned the whole concept but find myself considering it this time...

These LE books will actually sell out over the weekend, presumably.

As long as we get two figure kits, I'll be thrilled. If they want to make it three, I'll be even more thrilled. Plastic bits for Marines always makes me happy. This release is sounding like Christmas. Plastic Chappies and Librarians, plastic Vets (in whatever flavor), new Tac sprue.

That is even with expecting the Centurions to be lame. If they have loads of good bits, all the better.

Crazyterran wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
I'm a little confused about extra rules on the first founding legions, since BA/DA are part of those.

Will there be updates for BA/DA on what they can/can't take from the new stuff in the new codex?

Uh, no? Obviously not.

Uh, there's no "obvious" about it. Especially considering GW changes what it does on a moment's notice.

Thanks for being rude.

 Moopy wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
I'm a little confused about extra rules on the first founding legions, since BA/DA are part of those.

Will there be updates for BA/DA on what they can/can't take from the new stuff in the new codex?

Uh, no? Obviously not.

Uh, there's no "obvious" about it. Especially considering GW changes what it does on a moment's notice.

Thanks for being rude.

The only thing that's been flipflopped in terms of codices is if the Black Templar is going to be in Codex: Space Marines.

Did C:SM get updates from C:BA or C: DA? There's your answer.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:
I dunno if fluff would permit it but the whole 1000 to a chapter has always bothered me.

Since most fluff stories I have come across focuses on the company strength that's 100 dudes.

To fight Necrons/Nids/Orksies/etc.
On a whole planet.

The scale has always felt off (Okay with Dark Eldar or Eldar who do not like committing huge numbers that that sounds ok).

So a new unit could be the regular human fighters they use (dunno what they usually call them). Even if they job is to secure areas the actual Marines already won.

Just a thought.

Thats called imperial guard. And keep in mind marines work as rapid strike forces to do critical damage. They don't do trench warfare and such.

Yea i know that. But whilst they are off rapid striking everything who's securing locations, sticking up defense perimeters etc? 100 men, super or not, cannot cover an entire battlefield let alone an entire planet.
GW do a great job at making the galaxy feel huge (whole planets lost without noticing etc...) except when it come to this for me. The Chapters are too small IMO.

 Moopy wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
I'm a little confused about extra rules on the first founding legions, since BA/DA are part of those.

Will there be updates for BA/DA on what they can/can't take from the new stuff in the new codex?

Uh, no? Obviously not.

Uh, there's no "obvious" about it. Especially considering GW changes what it does on a moment's notice.

Thanks for being rude.

Actually it is pretty obvious. There have been NO rumors listed anywhere that have said anything about Blood Angels or Dark Angels. And as it stands as far as we all know there will be normal ally rules to share things in the book and that is all.

I really think the veterans kit will be a sternguard/vanguard combo. They're already similar enough in their finecast versions, the only difference really is weapons (boltguns vs boltpistols/chainswords) and jump packs, everything else can be shared.

Please don't nerf my Imperial Fists or Master of the Forge.

Zanderchief wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:
I dunno if fluff would permit it but the whole 1000 to a chapter has always bothered me.

Since most fluff stories I have come across focuses on the company strength that's 100 dudes.

To fight Necrons/Nids/Orksies/etc.
On a whole planet.

The scale has always felt off (Okay with Dark Eldar or Eldar who do not like committing huge numbers that that sounds ok).

So a new unit could be the regular human fighters they use (dunno what they usually call them). Even if they job is to secure areas the actual Marines already won.

Just a thought.

Thats called imperial guard. And keep in mind marines work as rapid strike forces to do critical damage. They don't do trench warfare and such.

Yea i know that. But whilst they are off rapid striking everything who's securing locations, sticking up defense perimeters etc? 100 men, super or not, cannot cover an entire battlefield let alone an entire planet.
GW do a great job at making the galaxy feel huge (whole planets lost without noticing etc...) except when it come to this for me. The Chapters are too small IMO.

I've always felt the same. After all, in a single battle company of 100 marines, who is driving all the Rhinos moving the foot troops around? Who is piloting the Stormravens and Thunderhawks that are getting them to the planet's surface? Who if piloting the Stormtalons that are providing air support? Who is driving the Predators, Vindicators, and Whirlwinds providing big gun support? Who is still staying behind on the orbiting strike cruiser overseeing the battle, commanding the ship, and standing ready to provide reinforcement? The numbers add up real quick.

Anyway, my biggest fear of a new C;SM release is that they'll halve the Tactical squad box and keep the current price (a la Dire Avengers). I expect a combined Sternguard/Vanguard box (same bodies, just different arms and weapons, really).

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:
I dunno if fluff would permit it but the whole 1000 to a chapter has always bothered me.

Since most fluff stories I have come across focuses on the company strength that's 100 dudes.

To fight Necrons/Nids/Orksies/etc.
On a whole planet.

The scale has always felt off (Okay with Dark Eldar or Eldar who do not like committing huge numbers that that sounds ok).

So a new unit could be the regular human fighters they use (dunno what they usually call them). Even if they job is to secure areas the actual Marines already won.

Just a thought.

Thats called imperial guard. And keep in mind marines work as rapid strike forces to do critical damage. They don't do trench warfare and such.

Yea i know that. But whilst they are off rapid striking everything who's securing locations, sticking up defense perimeters etc? 100 men, super or not, cannot cover an entire battlefield let alone an entire planet.
GW do a great job at making the galaxy feel huge (whole planets lost without noticing etc...) except when it come to this for me. The Chapters are too small IMO.

I've always felt the same. After all, in a single battle company of 100 marines, who is driving all the Rhinos moving the foot troops around? Who is piloting the Stormravens and Thunderhawks that are getting them to the planet's surface? Who if piloting the Stormtalons that are providing air support? Who is driving the Predators, Vindicators, and Whirlwinds providing big gun support? Who is still staying behind on the orbiting strike cruiser overseeing the battle, commanding the ship, and standing ready to provide reinforcement? The numbers add up real quick.

Anyway, my biggest fear of a new C;SM release is that they'll halve the Tactical squad box and keep the current price (a la Dire Avengers). I expect a combined Sternguard/Vanguard box (same bodies, just different arms and weapons, really).

When you do the math a Battle Company actually as 107 Marines and 3 Dreadnoughts when at max capacity (the 1st company counts the same). Scout Companies have 101 (100 Scouts and a Captain), and there are 5 Librarians in your average Chapter. Add in the Chapter Master and his Honor Guard and you have a minimum of 1,064 Marines and 24 Dreadnoughts, not counting who knows how many Techmarines/Masters of the Forge are in the chapter as well.

So needless to say I think the "1,000 Marines in a Chapter" only includes the Marines in combat roles and exclude the Captains, Dreadnoughts, Techmarines, Librarians, Chapter Master, all the Command Squads and the Honor Guard.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:
I dunno if fluff would permit it but the whole 1000 to a chapter has always bothered me.

Since most fluff stories I have come across focuses on the company strength that's 100 dudes.

To fight Necrons/Nids/Orksies/etc.
On a whole planet.

The scale has always felt off (Okay with Dark Eldar or Eldar who do not like committing huge numbers that that sounds ok).

So a new unit could be the regular human fighters they use (dunno what they usually call them). Even if they job is to secure areas the actual Marines already won.

Just a thought.

Thats called imperial guard. And keep in mind marines work as rapid strike forces to do critical damage. They don't do trench warfare and such.

Yea i know that. But whilst they are off rapid striking everything who's securing locations, sticking up defense perimeters etc? 100 men, super or not, cannot cover an entire battlefield let alone an entire planet.
GW do a great job at making the galaxy feel huge (whole planets lost without noticing etc...) except when it come to this for me. The Chapters are too small IMO.

I've always felt the same. After all, in a single battle company of 100 marines, who is driving all the Rhinos moving the foot troops around? Who is piloting the Stormravens and Thunderhawks that are getting them to the planet's surface? Who if piloting the Stormtalons that are providing air support? Who is driving the Predators, Vindicators, and Whirlwinds providing big gun support? Who is still staying behind on the orbiting strike cruiser overseeing the battle, commanding the ship, and standing ready to provide reinforcement? The numbers add up real quick.

Anyway, my biggest fear of a new C;SM release is that they'll halve the Tactical squad box and keep the current price (a la Dire Avengers). I expect a combined Sternguard/Vanguard box (same bodies, just different arms and weapons, really).

You are talking like there is no techmarines and such, support elements are not included in the 1000 marine chapter. There are many support elements after all Librarium, Armoury, Apothecarion, Chaplaincy, and Fleet.

The numbers don't add up real quick, since the combat squad vs thousands of cultists is the usual combat for a space marine. After all you don't train and arm super soldiers to die in droves, marines can go on even when they loose arms and legs or pierced by their hearts.

And the new C:SM will probably reduce the points of the regular Tac marine, which will add to the illusion that marines are only worth 3 guardsmen max 4. I actually would have perefered movie marines more then actually being able to field a battle company within a 2k game (You even get points for upgrade if you do it in CA)

On topic: On razorback box ; i think the assault variant and the support variant will have the same rules, just the top gun will be different. So they can actually provide all the guns somehow.

 5deadly wrote:
This Is twice now it's been said once by me and once by heartserenade.... I'm thinking it will be like the Raptors/Warp Talons squad with assault/vanguard and that’s cool cause that’s a lot of nice CC bits
But the sternguad could be 5 or 10 -Tactical/Sternguard- Might happen like that. GW does almost all Multi build kits now. I don’t see that being different here. If not tactical then what unit could duet with a sternguard unit. Vanguard have jump pack straps and jumping legs… It won’t be with them.
I’m just hoping that we get a serious new set of head variants as well… please don’t recycle those old played-out heads we all own a bitsbox full of.

They've already done an infantry/jump pack dual kit. You've seen the Death Company Box right? Sternguard/Vanguard are perfect for the same style of box. Heck, even the GK PA box has a jumper unit in it though the legs aren't as good.

Just figured I'd point this out.

Zanderchief wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

Zanderchief wrote:
I dunno if fluff would permit it but the whole 1000 to a chapter has always bothered me.

Since most fluff stories I have come across focuses on the company strength that's 100 dudes.

To fight Necrons/Nids/Orksies/etc.
On a whole planet.

The scale has always felt off (Okay with Dark Eldar or Eldar who do not like committing huge numbers that that sounds ok).

So a new unit could be the regular human fighters they use (dunno what they usually call them). Even if they job is to secure areas the actual Marines already won.

Just a thought.

Thats called imperial guard. And keep in mind marines work as rapid strike forces to do critical damage. They don't do trench warfare and such.

Yea i know that. But whilst they are off rapid striking everything who's securing locations, sticking up defense perimeters etc? 100 men, super or not, cannot cover an entire battlefield let alone an entire planet.
GW do a great job at making the galaxy feel huge (whole planets lost without noticing etc...) except when it come to this for me. The Chapters are too small IMO.

There's also the fact the Space Marines don't go to war the same way IG or Orks do. They don't stick up defense perimeters, they get in where they need to be via the fastest method possible, complete their assigned mission, and then get out. That whole securing ground stuff is left to the Guard. So no, 100ish Marines can't cover and defend an entire planet, but that's because that isn't what they're supposed to do.

So they have to wait around for the guard to come in? For a force that operates alone that's hard to do.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
If that's how the operate then fair enough. Simply means that one chapter can't do much at any one time.

Zanderchief wrote:
So they have to wait around for the guard to come in? For a force that operates alone that's hard to do.

That's why Imperium planets have PDFs which are basically under-trained/equipped Guard explicitly for protecting that planet. Also Marines usually show up after things have already gotten so bad that only they can bail the planet out.

Plus they don't always deploy in force, sometimes they just Exterminatus the planet instead, it all depends on the planet, what significance it holds in the Imperium, the threat and how bad things have gotten.

Also usually they operate in concert with guard regiments and other such forces.

Even then at chapter strength they can take entire planets, they isolate primary objectives and cripple/wipe out their opponents.

The number of marines doesn't really make sense for the size of the galaxy. Especially when you add in the type of delays that happen with warp travel. There really should be 1000 times as many if you wanted anything like a real presence of marines in the galaxy. The canon number of marines in the galaxy is basically at a point where they are irrelevant.

 frozenwastes wrote:
The number of marines doesn't really make sense for the size of the galaxy. Especially when you add in the type of delays that happen with warp travel. There really should be 1000 times as many if you wanted anything like a real presence of marines in the galaxy. The canon number of marines in the galaxy is basically at a point where they are irrelevant.

Well there used to be a LOT more Marines, but you have to love the Heresy for reducing them to a shadow of their former selves. Needless to say it's a good chunk of the reason why the Imperium is at best stagnant, if not shrinking.

Think they said in one piece of fluff there have less than one marine per planet in the Imperium.

So i wasn't trying to derail the thread with the size of a chapter topic.

I just think it would be a good idea to actually accept the fact that they need guard to wage certain types of warfare and therefore add a few guard like units in the dex. This is mainly because the allies as is makes for some OP combos so it would allow people to play Marines how they wage war, without the OP part. Well I am not sure it is a good idea actually... just a thought.

So...without any news or rumors to discuss anymore...

 Alpharius wrote:
So...without any news or rumors to discuss anymore...

We need images so "this is ridiculous" can resume

 Hulksmash wrote:

 5deadly wrote:
This Is twice now it's been said once by me and once by heartserenade.... I'm thinking it will be like the Raptors/Warp Talons squad with assault/vanguard and that’s cool cause that’s a lot of nice CC bits
But the sternguad could be 5 or 10 -Tactical/Sternguard- Might happen like that. GW does almost all Multi build kits now. I don’t see that being different here. If not tactical then what unit could duet with a sternguard unit. Vanguard have jump pack straps and jumping legs… It won’t be with them.
I’m just hoping that we get a serious new set of head variants as well… please don’t recycle those old played-out heads we all own a bitsbox full of.

They've already done an infantry/jump pack dual kit. You've seen the Death Company Box right? Sternguard/Vanguard are perfect for the same style of box. Heck, even the GK PA box has a jumper unit in it though the legs aren't as good.

Just figured I'd point this out.

Yeah I own a single kit of both i broke down and bought the GK kit... but the GK models are teleportes not Jumppackers... so.... but the Blood angel kit really reminds me of the old BT kit sort of... I mean you can make a solid unit but to me it seemed like a bits fest... those Blod drops got razor shaved, sanded and Plastic cement to perfect smoothness... work well a plain SM kit... sternguad are going to be Dope!

So... Any store owners that can weigh in on a Black Templars LE Codex cover for C: SM?

I need to ear-mark some moneys.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/space-marine-large-walker-debunked-and.html

I doubt it was the FW model but the Centurian's green if anything was seen at all. Either way, no Space Marine MC!

I really hope they make more veteran specific shoulder pads for BA and other chapters, kind of like these for the Crimson Fists:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440277a&prodId=prod1600072a

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/detailed-space-marine-rumors-are.html

Looks like the rumoured centurians might be able to upgrade with grav weapons also. The hunter sounds pretty cool along with both new vet kits, but we will have to see.

I love the GW CF packs.

That picture just needs a couple more dead orks.

While we're at it, how about this one?



/loves me some Crimson Fists