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I kinda love this thread. Not the fact that it could turn into a lynch mob or, what happened to Ten but, I like how the community can come together to serve justice. Reminds me of a domino effect.

I think the Tau terrain is actually pretty good, however, the paintjob makes it look like it's still foam. Bad paintjob, but good terrain. Either way, not a fair trade by any stretch of the imagination for the Eldar Titan.

 Lt. Coldfire wrote:
I think the Tau terrain is actually pretty good, however, the paintjob makes it look like it's still foam. Bad paintjob, but good terrain. Either way, not a fair trade by any stretch of the imagination for the Eldar Titan.

This was for the long (even then) OOP armorcast Eldar titan, before the forgeworld one was made. They were selling for 800+ on ebay around that time and not only was this terrain made by someone who'd never made terrain before but there was a very very long wait for it, despite prompts and requests. It was really about Shawn getting the titan and selling it on in very short order then putting his side of the deal on the back burner for a long time indeed. As I recall, it was only due to public shaming that the terrain was made in the end and then he got that stuff... which again prompted a bout of public shaming by bootlegtattoo and others.

So these guys aren't just bad painters, they're just outright crooks. Joy.

It looks like they just took a felt tip marker pen and drew the line "details" on. For that price, the line details should have been sculpted, carved or scored directly into the foam and it should have been given a paint job of the highest quality with expert weathering, battle damage and bases that weren't just what appeared to be bare painted green plastic or wood without sand and flock/grass and other details.

Fething lazy.

So, To make Professional tau terrain.

Step 1: buy poster board and sharpie markers.

step 2: make funny shapes with poster board and glue to cardboard squares (hot tip: make them really tall and people will be awed by how tall it is)

Step 3: use sharpie marker to draw lines all over poster board.

Step 4: Glue flock on top of cardboard to look like grass. (hot tip: if you get glue / flock on the "building" just say you were going for the climbing vine effect for extra amazement)

Step 5: Trade your Max $25 budget professional tau terrain for a *priceless OOP model

*priceless is specifically the word shawn uses in the video describing the eldar titan.

 Coldwill wrote:
I kinda love this thread. Not the fact that it could turn into a lynch mob or, what happened to Ten but, I like how the community can come together to serve justice. Reminds me of a domino effect.

Well, there's not a lynch mob going on. This is a reaction to an unfair and unjust situation and people speaking out against unethical business practices. There's not a lot of gray area here, Tenebrae is quoting source materials and has acted with a lot of restraint.

We are a community of gamers with shared ideas about what is right and wrong. Whether it's ripping people off, cheating at the gaming table, Forgeworld, rulebooks that are sparse on rules, etc, these all part of an ethic internal to this community. We can all identify with the problems he faces and (mostly) want to see a fair and equitable outcome.

The way I see it, BTP may offer a fine service but violated one of these rules of the community. They need to do what's right. A mostly civil discussion about that is not the same as a lynch mob. That really only happens over at 4chan.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Coldwill wrote:
I kinda love this thread. Not the fact that it could turn into a lynch mob or, what happened to Ten but, I like how the community can come together to serve justice. Reminds me of a domino effect.

Well, there's not a lynch mob going on.

Oh I know, that's why I wrote "it could," not that it has. I was not implying that is one but, like all threads it could go south and become one. It hasn't the community is quite mature.

As for the rest of what you said, I agree.

 Coldwill wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Coldwill wrote:
I kinda love this thread. Not the fact that it could turn into a lynch mob or, what happened to Ten but, I like how the community can come together to serve justice. Reminds me of a domino effect.

Well, there's not a lynch mob going on.

Oh I know, that's why I wrote "it could," not that it has. I was not implying that is one but, like all threads it could go south and become one. It hasn't the community is quite mature.

As for the rest of what you said, I agree.

Word up for not totally taking that the wrong way and turning my misunderstanding into a heated argument! You rock coldwill!

 techsoldaten wrote:
Word up for not totally taking that the wrong way and turning my misunderstanding into a heated argument! You rock coldwill!

It's really happening, you saw it here first, on Dakkadakka! *news broadcaster music*

No, I did my very short days of yelling in my prior career. No point to yell over man dollies on the webs. Thanks for the laugh.

Did you guys see this vid yet on youtube? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlpRxOxJdK8
It is basically a commentary on tenebres video, but . . . a few comments down there is a absolute torpedo of a post from SPENCER who worked there for two years.
This is a nuclear bomb of a detailed post that shows you , FROM AN INSIDER, how much of a FRAUD and a CON ARTIST gately really is.

Everyone in the gaming industry should avoid this company like they would avoid the ebola virus

Quote from spencers post:

"I spent two years working at BTP until, very recently, being let go for disagreeing with Shawn and trying ti make his company money. So I want to address a few things about this situation because you covered it quite well.

1) The BTP way of painting is to get it done as quickly as possible(ironically sometimes) so quality control gets pushed aside pretty often. More often than not when a project gets behind(due to some really dumb ways of using money) Shawn will just demand it gets churned out ASAP regardless. I'd seen projects where people paid thousands of dollars for armies and stuff that even I, as a gakky painter with next to no skill, would have picked out was left untouched because "oh that's not part of that level." Entire weapons with nothing more than a simple drybrush of grey over black in a few spots would be called painted.

2) Shawn has zero ethics. He believes that he should be able to do whatever he wants, how he wants with no interference from anyone. He seriously asked our state representative when he came to visit(some bs about empowering local companies blah blah) if he would consider lowering the legal working age to 12 so he could have his kids be legally employed at his company. He believes himself entirely in the right all the time. The Dropzone Commander "studio" armies that were basically given to him for free by Dave Lewis he was trying to sell. He tried to have me sell painted Heavy Gear models to Dream Pod 9. Every model that was sent to the studio due to my work I took with me when I left because otherwise he would try and sell them despite being given to the studio as signs of good faith or for reviews and such. He once described an idea he got from a company that was a total pyramid scheme, and he thought we should implement something like it. He has some "business mentor" who's a total con-artist and feeds him bs and lies on a regular basis. He listens to motivational speeches from people who don't give two gaks about the people listening, so long as they give them money. He believes being manipulative, scheming and acting like a scam artist is the best thing for his company.

3) He will never, ever, empower someone else in that company. You may recall a chap by the name of Rob who was COO of BTP for a bit. He then, financially, fethed the company over hard. During slumps he was giving himself massive pay raises while trying to find the best way to cut everyone else's pay. Rob's actions have scarred Shawn to the point where, even though it would greatly help his company, he will never entrust someone else to run the show again. Shawn running things means he can get away with whatever he wants, and that's exactly how he likes it. Shannon should, by all means, be running that business, but because he got burned Shawn will never trust anyone with BTP; even if they are the better choice.

4)You're absolutely right that Shawn doesn't care about what the customer thinks. He thinks he knows everything there is, and yet he doesn't even know how to produce quality video content for his own YouTube channel because editing and HD "takes too long to upload." He thinks he knows everything about the industry, but he's totally oblivious to how much the gaming industry has changed in the last five to ten years. To him the customer is just a walking wallet.

And it's all a real shame too because, in the right hands, BTP could be a great company in the industry. But its so poorly run and the people who could make things better are basically scared into submission because, as I'm an example to it, Shawn will fire you if you don't bend to his every whim every second. If he suggests an idea that's completely slowed and makes no sense saying "I think we should do this other thing that we've done before and is proven to make money" instantly puts you on the Shawn Gately gak list. It's a sad state, and he'll tank that company. Worst part is; it won't be the first time."

What a bombshell but, after all this it makes sense. You know what I find ironic? Shawn is the most annoying member of that company, when I used to watch their videos I would skip the ones with him in it, not realizing he owned the place.

Edit: Reminds me and comes across as an old used anything salesman.

Is it just me, but it seems that Spencer admits to theft there? Models given to the studio he took for fear they would be sold. Hmm...

Better than Shawn selling them. Ironic.

Dunno about irony, but I think it lessens his righteous indignation and witnessing against BTP. Of course his railing isn't vital in proving that the company is shady as all get out.

Oh, and look at this. BTP has a Patreon channel, you can give them money to buy gear for their videos.

http://www.patreon.com/btp

Look at the perks. You give them $10k and they will give you free clothing from their new line, access to all their new videos and DVDs, and enter your name 10x times for giveaways.

I'm starting to think it's time to put a stop to this madness. *Rolls up sleeves, clentches fists*

i usually take testimonials from ex employees with a grain of salt. In this instance, his post isn't really needed in forming an opinion about BTP and their dealings.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Oh, and look at this. BTP has a Patreon channel, you can give them money to buy gear for their videos.

http://www.patreon.com/btp

Look at the perks. You give them $10k and they will give you free clothing from their new line, access to all their new videos and DVDs, and enter your name 10x times for giveaways.

I'm starting to think it's time to put a stop to this madness. *Rolls up sleeves, clentches fists*

Lol...$43. Almost there!

There was a thread a few years back where BTP was paying their artist as independent contractors but was not allowing them to for anyone else. They stopped this practice when it was pointed out it was not legal. They have always had some questionable business practices.

I remember years ago a friend of mine had a commission to "fix" a BTP project. It was a interesting conversion but very poorly assembled and painted. He said never again would he touch a BTP repair.

This same friend has a GK commission from when the 5th edition codex came out. Due to magnetization issues it was not something he was looking forward to doing. The client will be pretty happy with the army once he gets it I am sure.

If the artist is talented enough a client can expect to wait longer then normal for a project to get done. Those projects tend to push the limits of the artists.

Then there's this.

http://bluetablepainting.blogspot.com/2014/10/btp-fantasy-camp.html?m=1

Live with Shawn for a week for $1200. He will business mentor you and let paint miniatures with the BTP crew. For another $1200 he will mentor you more.

While i am not familiar with the detail regarding the titan, people in general tend to over estimate what they have.

Say you have a fig that retails for about 1000. If you trade it in to a retailer, you will be lucky if you get 500. You are not dealing with another particular, you are dealing with a retailer and they tend to double up on their merchandise cost. Many will actually buy it for 500, list it at 1000 and cut a deal when some one ask for it for 750 and call it a day. Again not commenting on this deal in particular, but i see a lot of people trading in to retailers expecting to get the same they would get from a particular.

Yeah, I wouldn't pay even $20 for those Tau terrain. $10 maybe. And they'll be repainted by me for them to work.

Also as an ex-graphic designer that header on their blog makes me cringe.

xxvaderxx wrote:
While i am not familiar with the detail regarding the titan, people in general tend to over estimate what they have.

Say you have a fig that retails for about 1000. If you trade it in to a retailer, you will be lucky if you get 500. You are not dealing with another particular, you are dealing with a retailer and they tend to double up on their merchandise cost. Many will actually buy it for 500, list it at 1000 and cut a deal when some one ask for it for 750 and call it a day. Again not commenting on this deal in particular, but i see a lot of people trading in to retailers expecting to get the same they would get from a particular.

The Titan deal was another case of BTP ignoring what the customer wanted and doing what the felt like. It was not the value of the Titan that was in question, it was the value of the work done.

I have a feeling among the minis BTP painted for Miniwargaming there was one that looked a lot like this one right here.

Not talking about that, just in general, your 1k mini is not worth 1k to a retailer.

Just want to voice my support for the op! Hope it all works out.

I could never get others to paint my stuff for me. It's a scary world out there :x

xxvaderxx wrote:
Not talking about that, just in general, your 1k mini is not worth 1k to a retailer.

That's not really the issue, though. The issue is that the terrain received in exchange wasn't even worth a quarter of that. Or maybe even a tenth. It was an incredibly poor effort that cost BTP practically nothing, that they still made the client wait a couple months to receive on top of that.

No one's saying they got ripped off because BTP didn't make terrain that was worth $1,000.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Then there's this.

http://bluetablepainting.blogspot.com/2014/10/btp-fantasy-camp.html?m=1

Live with Shawn for a week for $1200. He will business mentor you and let paint miniatures with the BTP crew. For another $1200 he will mentor you more.

Wow, that made me laugh out loud pretty good. A few quote gems:
"Here is your chance to change your life." - Finally.
"Shawn (that's me! I'm writing this) will be glad to mentor you and give you ideas for life and help you find your own way OR business mentoring." - One OR the other, not both. Good try, scammer.
"Learn to paint awesomely and efficiently..."
And below "Comments" at the bottom: "I only approve comments that are well-worded and thoughtful."

Oh that's priceless.

Doesn't this part from Miniwargamings statement bother anyone else?

If you have used BTP, and have had a good experience with them, please email your experience to matthew@miniwargaming.com.

I realize that some people may have had bad experiences (they do a LOT of jobs every month, so obviously there will be customers who wouldn't be happy with their work), but we're only really interested in the positive experiences for this video.

It's preemptive. They knew they'd get flack for this, so much so that they had to qualify that they don't even want your email if you didn't have a favorable experience with them.

This hurts a lot, because it's obvious what's going on and I just don't want to believe it. For whatever reason the MWG guys are "in" with Shawn and will only be helping him get away with this.

I don't want to admit that's true because I actually like MWG, I'm a gold vault member. I don't know how I can continue to be so after this though