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Just stumbled across this. Haven't gone back to read the whole topic yet, but I went over the updates and I just wanted to say well done!

It's rare to see a project going to KS with so much already done and so much time and effort already invested. You guys obviously did your homework and I hope you reap the rewards.

 Asherian Command wrote:

It is?

Thats wierd most artists point to their inspirations of their work quite easily.

But that may be a game designer shtick. As the artists I know and the writers I know easily say "Yeah this is my inspiration."

In general, it is a contentious question, one that feeds into the popular cliche that people do not sit and plan and think but rather see something unusual or hear the dumb member of the A-Team say something dumb, and then have a Eureka "you're a genius!" moment to get their ideas.

However, when you are asking a professional writer which other IP he 'got' his ideas from, that is definitely rude. It can also open up all kinds of legal trouble. If Lego said something specific, like, "Actually, we were inspired by Fox property Aliens VS Predator," what do you think would happen? Do you see anything good coming from that?

Try this: "Mr. Harlan Ellison, I loved your story, 'I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream'. Were you inspired by The Terminator?" Let me know how that goes.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

It is?

Thats wierd most artists point to their inspirations of their work quite easily.

But that may be a game designer shtick. As the artists I know and the writers I know easily say "Yeah this is my inspiration."

In general, it is a contentious question, which feeds into the popular cliche that people do not sit and plan and think but rather see something unusual or hear the dumb member of the A-Team say something dumb, and then have a Eureka "you're a genius!" moment to get their ideas.

However, when you are asking a professional writer which other IP he 'got' his ideas from, that is definitely rude. It can also open up all kinds of legal trouble. If Lego said something specific, like, "Actually, we were inspired by Fox property Aliens VS Predator," what do you think would happen? Do you see anything good coming from that?

Try this: "Mr. Harlan Ellison, I loved your story, 'I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream'. Were you inspired by The Terminator?" Let me know how that goes.

I have no mouth and I must scream is definately inspired by dark plots. But I mean I am not asking for specifics. I disagree mostly because some writers due say yeah. "we got our inspirations from Blade Runner or we really liked Lovecraft and we wanted to expand and show what we thought of as lovecraftian."

Knowing where your inspirations come from is good. I am not asking exactly which and what was taken from. Just inspirations from authors. Its much like concept art, people make references to the art that inspired them to make that type of art. It happens all the time in the games industry and replication in that industry is seen as a good thing. Game designers, concept artists they love seeing what people do with their worlds or seeing their stuff inspire people to make their own types of things.

I get that some might think of when I say inspirations to be where did you get stuff from, take it as more of Where did you get material that inspired you to make this product. Though this might be a difference between the games industry and the board game industry. Which are two completely different entities.

That's probably far enough down that sidetrack. We can let the Spiral Arm team decide for themselves whether or not to be offended by the question...

 insaniak wrote:
That's probably far enough down that sidetrack. We can let the Spiral Arm team decide for themselves whether or not to be offended by the question...

Fair enough. Designers get to choose the information they deliever or reveal to the public. I can respect that.

Might have to get into this hobby too. My poor wallet. Anyway great job and I can't wait to see the results!

Firstly, In the concept art showing the battle, don't think I didn't notice those flying purple monster stingray thing.
secondly, I can't wait to see what you do for the robits.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Firstly, In the concept art showing the battle, don't think I didn't notice those flying purple monster stingray thing.
secondly, I can't wait to see what you do for the robits.

In the book they are called Angels. I'm looking forward to seeing how those work out

I just finished the second book & all I can say is wow... That was so much better than expected. You guys really made a top notch universe, on the level of infinity even, & I've only seen a glimpse. There's no way I'm not going in on the kick-starter if I can scrounge up the money. Really looking forward to more background!

insaniak wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
Also, aren't Anvils usually tough units that hold things in place for the hammers to do their work? .

Speaking as someone who grew up with Looney Tunes, an anvil is more often something big and heavy that you drop on someone when they least expect it...

I hope to see an add on sprue of ACME crates, over sized rockets/sticks of dynamite and little "HELP ME" placards.

insaniak wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

That is simply untrue. Tracked robots are perfectly capable of ascending stairs without losing traction - at worst, you would require the ability to angle the "torso" of a tauric robot to keep the center of gravity above the tracks.

I didn't say that they were incapable of it... just less suited for it.

The developers really need to get a grip and admit that people know far more about their IP than they do. Just deal it with you guys.

 monders wrote:

insaniak wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
Also, aren't Anvils usually tough units that hold things in place for the hammers to do their work? .

Speaking as someone who grew up with Looney Tunes, an anvil is more often something big and heavy that you drop on someone when they least expect it...

I hope to see an add on sprue of ACME crates, over sized rockets/sticks of dynamite and little "HELP ME" placards.

insaniak wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

That is simply untrue. Tracked robots are perfectly capable of ascending stairs without losing traction - at worst, you would require the ability to angle the "torso" of a tauric robot to keep the center of gravity above the tracks.

I didn't say that they were incapable of it... just less suited for it.

The developers really need to get a grip and admit that people know far more about their IP than they do. Just deal it with you guys.

Or you know you could just accept they maybe went with legged robots because they looked better? They've already said they tried tracked robots and the legged ones just looked cooler, it's really not a big deal.

Can I ask where did you guys get your inspiration from or will I Have to do that by private message?

I see alot of reference to various works but the one that jumps out to me is actually Old Man's War in some interesting way.

Well, this seems a perfect opportunity to jump in and introduce myself. I'm Stephen Gaskell, Maelstrom's Edge Lead Writer, who along with Tomas Martin (fellow Lead Writer) and Jon Last (Technical Writer) make up the writing team.

First of all, I'd like to briefly say thanks to everybody who's come to this page. The response to the project has been incredible, and it's massively exciting finally being able to peel back the corners of the universe and show the world. We have so much more to show you, and I can't wait to see everyone's reaction.

So, as a writer I'm more than happy to talk about inspirations, because nobody works in a vacuum (well, except astronauts on spacewalks...). As Tomas and others have said, we're all big sci-fi fans on the team, and collectively we've subconsciously taken on board hundreds of novels, films, TV series, video games etc. I, personally, haven't read Old Man's War, but it wouldn't surprise me if other members of the team have. And that's the thing. Throughout the development of the Maelstrom's Edge universe, there was very little explicit discussion of other IPs--they occasionally came up when somebody said "maybe we can have something like X" and someone else then said "ah, but that's awfully close to Y", so we'd then chat about it some more and decide whether we had an original enough slant on thing X, or whether it stepped on some other IP's toes too much.

The other thing with Maelstrom's Edge is that we're building a universe that has scope for many different types of stories, so we have this unifying backdrop, but we have plenty of diversity at the grainiest resolution. What excites me the most is that we can set stories on abandoned space stations, bustling and grimy metropolises, vast spaceships tearing away from the Edge--and the presence of the Maelstrom will equally inform those stories but in staggeringly diverse ways.

I can't speak for the others, but as to a few of my own key inspirations over my 30+ years of reading etc I should cite William Gibson, Star Wars, and general science/tech writing.
Gibson's influence is summed up by his quote "The future is already here--it's just not very evenly distributed"; Maelstrom's Edge features a kaleidoscope of technological marvels from the cybel network to terraforming robots, but definitely not everybody is enjoying those fruits. Star Wars, less for it's moral absolutism, and more for its scope and sheer exhilarating joy. And lastly, I have an academic background in the hard sciences and artificial intelligence, and although I'm a full-time writer now, the breakthroughs coming out of those fields and others, is always a constant source of inspiration for me. As we reveal more the universe, I'm sure some of those sci/tech breakthroughs will become apparent.

I just finished the second book & all I can say is wow... That was so much better than expected. You guys really made a top notch universe, on the level of infinity even, & I've only seen a glimpse. There's no way I'm not going in on the kick-starter if I can scrounge up the money. Really looking forward to more background!

Thanks for the kind words. It's hard to overstate how gratifying it is to hear such feedback. Feel free to post a review on Amazon And don't worry, we've got a tonne more writing coming out over the year--including work by some of the best SF writers in the business. (No, I can't name names!).

 ImAGeek wrote:

Or you know you could just accept they maybe went with legged robots because they looked better?

They've already said they tried tracked robots and the legged ones just looked cooler, it's really not a big deal.

Exactly - I was just being facetious regarding the number of comments telling Yakface and co how they're doing their game 'wrong'.

Rule of Cool should always win. Other than that terrifying four tracked tank thing from Terminator 2, bipedal robots always look better imho!

 endtransmission wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Firstly, In the concept art showing the battle, don't think I didn't notice those flying purple monster stingray thing.
secondly, I can't wait to see what you do for the robits.

In the book they are called Angels. I'm looking forward to seeing how those work out

Yep, the Angels are something we're really proud of. You can get a little glimpse of these shapeshifting alien monstrosities that fight alongside the Karist Enclave in the excerpt from the novel I put online on my website:

http://tomaslmartin.com/darrkenium/2015/4/15/read-an-excerpt-from-maelstroms-edge-faith

Asherian Command wrote:Can I ask where did you guys get your inspiration from or will I Have to do that by private message?

I see a lot of reference to various works but the one that jumps out to me is actually Old Man's War in some interesting way.

Following on from what Stephen said, I want to share some of my influences - I definitely don't think this is a rude question, and in fact I quite like answering them!

There's load of things that I've been inspired by personally that influence my writing style. There are writers that I aspire to be as good as - like Neal Stephenson, China Mieville, Neil Gaiman and William Gibson, but for the writing I've done for Maelstrom's Edge I think the books I've drawn the most inspiration from are military SF like The Forever War by Joe Haldeman, Armour by John Steakley, Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts, Old Man's War for sure, and perhaps most influentially when I was younger, the Star Wars: X-Wing series by Michael A. Stackpole and Aaron Allston. I would say from a style point of view we wanted them to be fun and readable with engaging characters, but with a gritty, believable feel to the technology and setting.

For the universe itself I think the number one thing we all referenced when we started working on Maelstrom's Edge was the 2003 remake of Battlestar Galactica. A lot of miniatures games (many of which I love) have quite an old school cheesier scifi feel, with elements of fantasy and quite over the top characters with huge power. This is quite similar to the kind of scifi on TV before the new BSG, which was more monster of the week and light-hearted. There's nothing wrong with that kind of science fiction, in fact I like it a lot, but we felt there was a gap in the market for a scifi wargame with a more hard SF, grittier tone. For me the miniseries and first two seasons of Battlestar Galactica showed that you could do science fiction in a style closer to that of great drama series, which was also similar to the tone of many of my favourite SF books. The action in BSG is driven by conflicts between characters (as is all the best drama), and the difficult situations they are put under forces them to make hard choices, so that even characters who are mostly 'good' can make difficult, even incorrect decisions, based on what they thought was the right idea.

So that was one of the big feelings we wanted to capture with Maelstrom's Edge - a universe where real people are forced to make hard decisions due to the difficult situation they're in. There were many other influences - Firefly, Cowboy Bebop and Star Wars of course, for the great mix of futuristic ships and technology with frontier environments and quirky characters. Video games with deep, engaging worlds and fiction like Mass Effect, Knights of the Old Republic and Halo were also good inspiration for how you make a game more than just its mechanics.

Stephen and I are both scientists by training - I still work in research at the University of Oxford in my day job - and we wanted to try and include a bit more rigorous worldbuilding from that perspective - there's definitely things in Maelstrom's Edge that are inventions, but hopefully we've designed them in a way that seems plausible in a hard SF way.

More importantly than anything else, each of these works we admire succeeds because it has a unique feel and excellent execution of its ideas. We hope that we've succeeded in drawing together elements of each of these inspirations to create something that feels similarly new and exciting, and that people will want to play and explore in the universe of Maelstrom's Edge for some time to come!

 monders wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Or you know you could just accept they maybe went with legged robots because they looked better?

They've already said they tried tracked robots and the legged ones just looked cooler, it's really not a big deal.

Exactly - I was just being facetious regarding the number of comments telling Yakface and co how they're doing their game 'wrong'.

Rule of Cool should always win. Other than that terrifying four tracked tank thing from Terminator 2, bipedal robots always look better imho!

I apologise, I didn't realise you were being facetious, I thought you were actually saying that people know more about the IP than the developers do sorry!

I agree that rule of cool is key. And yes, it's their game, I'm sure they know what they're doing, and it's their decisions.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Voracious Maelstrom Hedge,

excuse me,
Vorpal's Maelstrom : The Edge Miniatures Game
which I wrote in 1987
and is based entirely upon playing squads of The Edge from U2 slaying Maelstrom Press music critics with his Vorpal Guitar

Another example: Judgedoug's game is clearly similar--suspiciously so--to the board game B52 Stratocaster: Operation Rolling Stone from 1977, yet you don't see me calling it a blatant rip-off, no matter how obvious it may be to everyone.

Well, I did just buy copies of B52 Stratocaster on sale at the local Waldenbooks and glue on a Vorpal's Maelstrom logo over the front of the box.

Less LULZ, more ON TOPIC please - thanks!

 Alpharius wrote:
Less LULZ, more ON TOPIC please - thanks!

I've never seen a thread so heavily moderated. We can't talk about the design or quality of the model nor the influences - which is the majority of the content of any other N&R thread - what else is off-limits?

Off Topic 'joke' posts - obviously?

As for the other stuff - I'm pretty sure you can talk about design, quality, influences, etc.

Maybe try to avoid 'assless chaps' references though?

If There's Mechs, I'm in.

My limited budget can't take it, but I'll find a way.

Something I'm wondering about the background is how fast does the Maelstrom move and how fast can the various factions travel.

Mainly because that's a fine balancing act between 'we might as well stay on this planet' and 'we'll just nip ahead of impending doom when it catches up in ten years'. And then there's the baffling relativity aspect to time that I can't pretend to grasp as you approach light speed and the likelihood of death before encountering habitable worlds when travelling too far behind light speed.

How did you guys approach the physics side of things when it came to making the maelstrom a meaningful threat? I read that you wanted a hard sci-fi approach, so I assume it was important to you all?

 SteveGaskell wrote:

Thanks for the kind words. It's hard to overstate how gratifying it is to hear such feedback. Feel free to post a review on Amazon And don't worry, we've got a tonne more writing coming out over the year--including work by some of the best SF writers in the business. (No, I can't name names!).

Hey so just offhand, will the un-nameable authors be using pseudonyms when they put stuff out or are we likely to see titles come out with their normal names on products? I'm certainly curious and I'll end up interweb sleuthing in any case. I do love seeing what my favorite authors are up to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 darrkespur wrote:
Armour by John Steakley

You mentioned one of my favorite novels as an inspiration Sir! I never run into other people who have read it, oddly enough. Feel my overwhelming beam of positive feedback! *Makes beaming whooshy noises at his screen*

On a further note, do you guys also find yourself influenced by from writing video games? I'm always curious if some mediums are more or less beneficial than others in the creative spaces given that some things seem either more visually representable or more interactive, and how that affects what you see in your minds eye as you write.

Love what I'm reading so far. I'm positive that I'll thoroughly enjoy the universe as more of it is unveiled

 Alpharius wrote:
Off Topic 'joke' posts - obviously?

As for the other stuff - I'm pretty sure you can talk about design, quality, influences, etc.

Maybe try to avoid 'assless chaps' references though?

Can we talk about the quality of the design of the influences? Like, how terrifying it is that nBSG is their primary influence... Two good years and then the game will become an unwatchable mess?


I'm still looking forward to the games and the novels, but I'm not sure how you can have a huge sandbox of a wargaming universe built on soap opera personal drama.

Just take my money. Please.

ARMOR by John Steakley is one of my all time favorite books!

I've got this well read version on my shelf still:



I've always wanted a sequel, but it doesn't seem like Steakley wrote a whole lot after this...and of course, now it's too late!

So, knowing this bit of Inspiration Info has me even more excited!

I'm a dinosaur though, so I'm waiting for Dead Tree versions of the books!

 Alpharius wrote:
Maybe try to avoid 'assless chaps' references though?

And what about the knee pads?

So it's okay to be critical of other models but not these. Double standard?

Was Mr Slave from South Park the inspiration for the Engineers?

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Maybe try to avoid 'assless chaps' references though?

And what about the knee pads?

So it's okay to be critical of other models but not these. Double standard?

Was Mr Slave from South Park the inspiration for the Engineers?

When did he say anything about not being allowed to be critical of the models? He just wants to avoid people talking about assless chaps. There's no double standards at all in this thread, I don't know why people keep saying things like that.

Like I said earlier, I probably won't buy this game, but after reading through this thread, and comparing it to a thread about the new Eldar releases, I can safely predict that this game will never become as horribly broken as 40k, and that can only be a good thing.

 ImAGeek wrote:

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Maybe try to avoid 'assless chaps' references though?

And what about the knee pads?

So it's okay to be critical of other models but not these. Double standard?

Was Mr Slave from South Park the inspiration for the Engineers?

When did he say anything about not being allowed to be critical of the models? He just wants to avoid people talking about assless chaps. There's no double standards at all in this thread, I don't know why people keep saying things like that.

The only 'rules' anyone has to 'worry' about here, or anywhere on this site are these:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

That's it!

 ImAGeek wrote:

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Maybe try to avoid 'assless chaps' references though?

And what about the knee pads?

So it's okay to be critical of other models but not these. Double standard?

Was Mr Slave from South Park the inspiration for the Engineers?

When did he say anything about not being allowed to be critical of the models? He just wants to avoid people talking about assless chaps. There's no double standards at all in this thread, I don't know why people keep saying things like that.

Agree with this. If anybody wants proof that the mods will not be biased towards this game, then check out page 5 where Yakface addresses these concerns in reply to me asking this very question.

As long as criticism abides by the dakka rules of politeness, then you can criticise this game until the cows come home.