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Queek is supposed to be around where skarsnik and i think belegar (spelling?) are. After all the city of pillars and karak eight peaks are the same spot. Course that means it's going to be a 3-way fight at the very beginning which is pretty tough to think about. I think all forces are supposed to be lead by an important character of their given faction. So yeah it'll get rough really fast. I expect a hard start regardless.

In the case of thanquol he only has to deal with tilea which is mostly far away from any of the other major factions. Like the closest major faction is bretonnia so he's got an easy route. Would be interesting if tomb kings would fight him at some point due to combined maps.

Of course ikit claw would also have a similar start position as thanquol due to clan skryre owning the skaven capital.

Not sure where clan moulder would fit into this if it ever does. I think they were in troll country or something.

Clan Eshin is so far away either cathay or nippon which is fantasy version of japan and china so i'll don't think they'll ever make it into the game.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Clan Eshin is so far away either cathay or nippon which is fantasy version of japan and china so i'll don't think they'll ever make it into the game.

Clan Eshin learned their ninja skills in the far east, but they aren't located there anymore. They're trolling around the world like Skaven enjoy doing. I'm sure I saw them somewhere in Lustria in Kroq Gar's campaign.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Queek is supposed to be around where skarsnik and i think belegar (spelling?) are. After all the city of pillars and karak eight peaks are the same spot. Course that means it's going to be a 3-way fight at the very beginning which is pretty tough to think about. I think all forces are supposed to be lead by an important character of their given faction. So yeah it'll get rough really fast. I expect a hard start regardless.

Queek will be a nice addition to the Badlands I think. That area becomes very one dimensional given that the Green Skins usually end up confederating the whole area and then running over the Border Princes.

Not sure where clan moulder would fit into this if it ever does. I think they were in troll country or something.

At the moment their South of Kroq-Gar's position, but their area isn't on the Mortal Empire's map.

Ulthuan will be Asureik. Show those uppity knife ears who the true civilized peoples are!

 djones520 wrote:
No. There will be 117 factions, so I'd expect most of them to make it in.

Blergh. Oh well, grinding that confederation button again.


Does anyone know how the mechanics for confederation work? They have to like you, of course, and you also need to be bigger than them, but is that it? Because I've got some High Elf factions that love me, that I'm bigger than, but after 30 turns of hitting Confederate none of them will join? This seems quite different to TW Warhamemr 1, where there were hold out factions but they all seemed to get on board once Chaos turned up. I thought maybe the rituals might trigger something but that doesn't seem to be doing it either.

 LordofHats wrote:

Queek will be a nice addition to the Badlands I think. That area becomes very one dimensional given that the Green Skins usually end up confederating the whole area and then running over the Border Princes.

My recent experience with TW1 is the greenskins get really hammered by the dwarves, even with confederations. Unless the chaos invasion detours into the mountains or the dwarf-vampire wars go really crazy, the Dwarves typically just steamroll their way south, and it gets worse for the greenskins as the campaign goes on.

But Queek gunning for Eight Peaks is pretty much perfect- though Skarsnik and Belegar both start a fair distance away, so the three way would take a while.


As far as Kroq-Gar's starting position- it made a fair amount of sense for the ritual campaign- dispatching him (and a pack of skink researchers to do the real work) to the other continent is a reasonable way of splitting the necessary work. Shifting him for the campaign wouldn't make too much sense- someone needs to fill that space (though it looks like a really easy start now with all those threats to the south gone)


I do think clipping Lustria and the Southlands was probably the best way to go. Their presence in the background is pretty minimal, and away from anything that matters.

 sebster wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
No. There will be 117 factions, so I'd expect most of them to make it in.

Blergh. Oh well, grinding that confederation button again.


Does anyone know how the mechanics for confederation work? They have to like you, of course, and you also need to be bigger than them, but is that it? Because I've got some High Elf factions that love me, that I'm bigger than, but after 30 turns of hitting Confederate none of them will join? This seems quite different to TW Warhamemr 1, where there were hold out factions but they all seemed to get on board once Chaos turned up. I thought maybe the rituals might trigger something but that doesn't seem to be doing it either.

Not completely. Several TW1 factions had an 'underdog' trait, which gives a bonus to confederating. [particularly Empire]. I know a couple DE factions have that same trait, but it doesn't seem to matter as much as it did in TW1.

They also seem more willing if the balance of power is particularly tipped, which means if they lose their army they're more likely to agree. But it doesn't seem to matter how powerful you are (at least it never has for me- I've held whole continents with a dozen armies and still had minor factions turn me down. And the same turn had the other major faction agree. (As Kroq-gar, tried with three surviving lizard factions in Lustria: they all refused, then tried with Mazda just for kicks: he accepted, despite having taken most of Morathi's land, and 17 total cities).
I have also heard, though, that your military alliances can somehow count against you at times. I'm not sure I understand that or even know for certain its true.

I have seen people give large cash payments (10K gold) to force an agreement, which seems absurd (because obviously that money is immediately lost to the ether).

I suspect betraying alliances or breaking truces leaves you with a penalty for a long while as well. But can't actually prove it. Diplomacy is still really shaky with too much hidden information.

Voss wrote:

I have also heard, though, that your military alliances can somehow count against you at times. I'm not sure I understand that or even know for certain its true.

I have seen people give large cash payments (10K gold) to force an agreement, which seems absurd (because obviously that money is immediately lost to the ether).

I suspect betraying alliances or breaking truces leaves you with a penalty for a long while as well. But can't actually prove it. Diplomacy is still really shaky with too much hidden information.

How the military alliance thing works is a follows. Your balance of power bar does not take everything into account. This is why when you have a few wars you might get a wave of war declarations. Relatively speaking your power bar is smaller than so many enemies combined, but that won't show. For confederating alliances help the powerbar in ways you can't see. A rank 30 power faction allied with a rank 1-3 won't confederate because its weak, no it has powerful friends. The bar never tells you this. So you end up in situations in which you're top dog and nobody wants to confederate because you allied them and save their lives. So alliances are terrible for confederating, which is really the hot garbage of alliance design. I figured this out as rank 2 Empire with a devastated 1 town Nuln. Had 300+ relations from giving them tons of money, yet I had to break my alliance for them to confederate. This is incredibly shortsighted again, because as you say your reputation is important as well. This is the hidden diplomatic penalty for breaking and backstabbing: Steadfast for honoring your treaties will give you a much higher chance than being untrustworthy. You can read your own trait in the diplomacy screen, steadfast is the best, but it basically means no allies and wars till they are wiped out, no truces. So you have to break long term alliances to confederate even though the AI will dislike you for breaking the alliance in the first place.

That's when the tons of money come in. It greases the wheels. But further stupidity in diplomacy design comes in, the amount doesn't really matter, the percentage does. If you have 100.000 almost every deal will require 10.000-20.000+. Just look at peace treaties, they ask obscene amounts if you're wealthy. If you only have 2000 they might only need a few hundred. That is why the payment window does it not in 100 or 1000 increments but in a percentage chunck of money, its what you're expected to give based on your treasury. BUT, the Lizardmen cold blooded trait in diplomacy or whatever it was called means that no amount of money will influence a decision, making confederating even more of a chore as you can't grease the wheels. Diplomacy is the worst thought out part of the game and it really shows. Sometimes you need to have hugely positive relations, no alliance and put in a bunch of lost money. Add that to the reputation and the artificial nature of the Great Power penalty and confederating is harder than just wiping everyone out. Game 1 at least eventually had the Shield of Civilization mechanic that let you confed easily because Archaon came. Game 2 has nothing like that, which is ridiculous. "Hey fellow Lizardmen, the Skaven are an inch from destroying the world by messing up the Vortex. Want to save all our lives and the Great Plan?" "Nah piss off, we have Steven here, he's all we need, its as the Old Ones predicted."

That trailer music though!

I tend to find that the more frightened a faction is the more likely it is that they will join. As the high elves I declared war on all the dark elf factions I could find and waited for them to send their ships over and your affinity with the high elves shoots up. They also have the huge benefit of being able to spend influence to boost relations super fast and drown out any negative effects you may be suffering.

Interesting stuff about the alliance mechanic, I'll have to hold off on making so many military alliances from now on I think..

 Commander Cain wrote:

I tend to find that the more frightened a faction is the more likely it is that they will join. As the high elves I declared war on all the dark elf factions I could find and waited for them to send their ships over and your affinity with the high elves shoots up. They also have the huge benefit of being able to spend influence to boost relations super fast and drown out any negative effects you may be suffering.

Interesting stuff about the alliance mechanic, I'll have to hold off on making so many military alliances from now on I think..

That's not frightened I think, the amount of war decs you make is the significant factor here it seems. They are more likely to join because Helf factions like military actions and war decs against Delves for the most part. So its not that they are scared. Its that you declare war on 10 Delf factions that individually give 10-20+ relations but combined make it skyrocket. If you hover over the relationship number in diplomacy you will see all the positive modifiers for your war decs against each individual faction+the battles. What you do is basically massively boost relations by going full out war on their favorite target/hated enemy.

Yes, the alliance mechanic really is a mess. It might make sense for the more evil factions, but 'good' factions like the Empire, Lizardmen and Helves could have really used a Bretonnia diplomacy tech option. Maybe very far down so that the Empire could still have conflict. But Helves and Lizardmen murdering their own race? Lizardmen would never and the last time Helves did the Delves came on stage. Its weird that they gave Bretonnia a decently fluffy option for confeds even though they have wars, yet the paragons of 'team race' i.e. the Lizardmen don't? Wut?

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
BUT, the Lizardmen cold blooded trait in diplomacy or whatever it was called means that no amount of money will influence a decision, making confederating even more of a chore as you can't grease the wheels.

Paying money definitely helps your chances of making a confederation offer with Lizardmen.

I only finally got the big Lizardmen factions to confederate with Mazdamundi when I started offering money alongside my confederation attempts. Don't know if the gifts prior to that were helping at all, but eventually I started offering big amounts of cash and it would push the confederation chance from "low" to "high", I'd back it off until it said "moderate" to avoid wasting money

It seems the Lizardmen would only confederate when they were about to be wiped out or you offered them insane amounts of money. Late game with Maz my economy was insanely good so I just bought them out. It seriously would have been easier just to take their lands by force, which is what I ended up doing with Kroq Gar Especially since there's several cities in Lustria that give you big boosts. Itza for example is a 10 slot city with 2 unique buildings, rather than trying to make peace and confederate with them this time I just walked in and took it, lol.





But it is interesting what you say about avoiding alliances. In my TWW1 campaign currently I avoided alliances with factions that weren't my race (because last time it screwed me over when they started declaring wars on each other and I had to choose sides or break alliances). But now all those factions I avoided alliances with are wanting to become my vassal states, an option that never even appeared viable in previous campaigns. I wonder if avoiding alliances made them finally cave in and become my slaves, lol.

My recent experience with TW1 is the greenskins get really hammered by the dwarves, even with confederations. Unless the chaos invasion detours into the mountains or the dwarf-vampire wars go really crazy, the Dwarves typically just steamroll their way south, and it gets worse for the greenskins as the campaign goes on.

It's the opposite for me. I usually see the Orcs just one by one run over the Dwarves, though even when it goes the other way that's still pretty one dimensional. In the end there's really only two factions in the south in TW1 and one will eventually kill the other. A third faction that will be antagonistic to both will make it more interesting to play and later in the game.

To Confederation;

Some factions seem tailor made to confederate as time goes on, namely the Bretons and the Wood Elves, who seem to be able to do it like clockwork without any real effort dedicated to the task.

For other factions I find the key is to wait until the other guy has lost a war and has no large armies. At that point they're very willing to confederate even if relations between them and you are only so-so.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
BUT, the Lizardmen cold blooded trait in diplomacy or whatever it was called means that no amount of money will influence a decision, making confederating even more of a chore as you can't grease the wheels.

Paying money definitely helps your chances of making a confederation offer with Lizardmen.

I only finally got the big Lizardmen factions to confederate with Mazdamundi when I started offering money alongside my confederation attempts. Don't know if the gifts prior to that were helping at all, but eventually I started offering big amounts of cash and it would push the confederation chance from "low" to "high", I'd back it off until it said "moderate" to avoid wasting money

It seems the Lizardmen would only confederate when they were about to be wiped out or you offered them insane amounts of money. Late game with Maz my economy was insanely good so I just bought them out. It seriously would have been easier just to take their lands by force, which is what I ended up doing with Kroq Gar Especially since there's several cities in Lustria that give you big boosts. Itza for example is a 10 slot city with 2 unique buildings, rather than trying to make peace and confederate with them this time I just walked in and took it, lol.



But it is interesting what you say about avoiding alliances. In my TWW1 campaign currently I avoided alliances with factions that weren't my race (because last time it screwed me over when they started declaring wars on each other and I had to choose sides or break alliances). But now all those factions I avoided alliances with are wanting to become my vassal states, an option that never even appeared viable in previous campaigns. I wonder if avoiding alliances made them finally cave in and become my slaves, lol.

It depends, not all Lizardmen have this trait in diplomacy i believe, it states : "The immutable, alien logic of the Lizardmen means they will only consider strong, emotive states when engaging in diplomacy."

From what I understand and tested this means they won't really be swayed with money. But based on your experience that seems to be false, so it's another meaningless and confusing addition to a diplomatic mess. Although I must say that the LL seem more easily bribed than the minor factions, although this also hangs on ritual bonuses. Lizardmen diplomacy is a mess and the Tlaxtan faction just loves to back stab Mazdamundi in my experience. Its really strange that one of the most unified races lore wise has such difficulty, well unifying really. The only faction I really managed to confederate was Kroq after owning half the world and him getting absolutely crushed by Helves. The others preferred dying against the Skaven

Yes alliances are terrible, because they will embolden your friends against you. They will never become subservient as their power plus your power equals bigger than just yours in diplomacy. So they reject you because they are friends with the mighty you. The game makes your allies actually use your power against you. It basically never pays off to have allies because they drag you in unnecessary wars and will never confederate unless you hand over giants piles of money, because even if they get demolished in the field they always have your power ranking left. They're piggybacking off your own succes without ever lifting a finger. Beyond fluffy playthroughs they are utterly useless. They recklessly throw their armies around and you're better off financing your own with their lands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:

My recent experience with TW1 is the greenskins get really hammered by the dwarves, even with confederations. Unless the chaos invasion detours into the mountains or the dwarf-vampire wars go really crazy, the Dwarves typically just steamroll their way south, and it gets worse for the greenskins as the campaign goes on.

It's the opposite for me. I usually see the Orcs just one by one run over the Dwarves, though even when it goes the other way that's still pretty one dimensional. In the end there's really only two factions in the south in TW1 and one will eventually kill the other. A third faction that will be antagonistic to both will make it more interesting to play and later in the game.

Orcs run over the Dwarfs? You must be one of the exceptions to the Dawitide rule. They have tried fixing the weak Orc problem for a while but Dwarfs absolutely dominate 9 times out of 10.

 LordofHats wrote:
To Confederation;

Some factions seem tailor made to confederate as time goes on, namely the Bretons and the Wood Elves, who seem to be able to do it like clockwork without any real effort dedicated to the task.

For other factions I find the key is to wait until the other guy has lost a war and has no large armies. At that point they're very willing to confederate even if relations between them and you are only so-so.

They are tailor made because the Brettonian tech tree basically grants them free confederations in order of distance to the capital and the Oak of Ages allows the Wood Elves to do the same. The only other AI faction that it will come naturally to is the Dwarfs really, who tend to start confederating with Barak Varr 5-10 turns in and never stop. There is a real disconnect between the races and the confederation mechanic. The Bret mechanic would serve the High Elves and Lizardmen well. The Norsca confed mechanic of defeating the faction leader would work well for Orcs and perhaps Skaven. Why they just randomly assign mechanics to it without thought is the most annoying aspect when the confed waves roll in. Game 2 really suffers from this, mainly the Helves and Delves absolutely steamroll thanks to relentless confederating. Skaven and Lizards not so much. I have no clue to the rhyme or reason behind it for game 2 as both those factions don't have a lot of enemies like Dwarfs do at the game 1 starts (Barak Varr against Orcs and Zhufbar against Vampire Counts).

If playing Empire or Brets by the time I have encountered the Greenskins or Dwarf named faction one is on the ropes and the other is one of the top three power factions with lots of territories.

Which is which depends on the RNG.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Orcs run over the Dwarfs? You must be one of the exceptions to the Dawitide rule. They have tried fixing the weak Orc problem for a while but Dwarfs absolutely dominate 9 times out of 10.

I remember the opposite honestly. When the game came out lots of players complained that the Greenskins confederate and overrun the southlands very rapidly, becoming a problem for Empire and Vamp Count players cause it tended to come their way around the same time as the Chaos invasion. IDK.

They are tailor made because the Brettonian tech tree basically grants them free confederations in order of distance to the capital and the Oak of Ages allows the Wood Elves to do the same.

Yep.

For the Dwarves def on Barak Varr, though for me whether or not other Dwarf factions confederate can be really random. Agree on Confederation mechanics being random. Diplomacy in Total War has always been weak imo, a tacked on mechanic because it is expected even though most players are just going to conquer everyone anyway. Usually some of the best mods are ones that try to overhaul it with one of the best being "No Great Power Penalty" mods that completely remove that bit. Confederating as Lizardmen and Skraven is hard, and oddly so imo but I was unaware of the military alliance bit mentioned above. I'll toy with that next new game and see how it goes.

What I usually saw was that unless the orcs are very aggressive and siege the Dwarf capital by turn 30 or so (and if they're aggressive enough they'll have a waagh to make it easy), they can stop the dwarves and run rampant.

After that, the dwarf economy makes them effectively unstoppable. Sadly it tends to turn this way, as the AI gets really distracted with other orc factions.

LordofHats wrote:A third faction that will be antagonistic to both will make it more interesting to play and later in the game.

Maybe. I suspect it will be another distraction for orcs and dwarfs will just be able to be even more focused and superior, and occupy the border princes, which will make them even stronger.

 sebster wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
No. There will be 117 factions, so I'd expect most of them to make it in.

Blergh. Oh well, grinding that confederation button again.


Does anyone know how the mechanics for confederation work? They have to like you, of course, and you also need to be bigger than them, but is that it? Because I've got some High Elf factions that love me, that I'm bigger than, but after 30 turns of hitting Confederate none of them will join? This seems quite different to TW Warhamemr 1, where there were hold out factions but they all seemed to get on board once Chaos turned up. I thought maybe the rituals might trigger something but that doesn't seem to be doing it either.

It also depends on their personality type. Some elf nations' personality types are inherently distrustworthy of other elves, and others just do not like the idea of confederation. But eventually they will agree. The more rituals you do the easier it is, usually, to get your own race to ally with you.

Playing as Kroq - decided I need to finish at least one campaign; it's playing differently enough from Maz that it's interesting. I've got the southern 1/3 of the continent sewed up, just kicked the elves off of the islands south of me. The two Bret factions and the Necrarchs pretty much have the rest of the continent and they've been going at each other hard. Looks like one of the Bret factions is about to go under so I'm considering hitting the vamps while they are still distracted. There's a small greenskin faction in the mountains just north of me that has to get cleared out too.

Economy was definitely tougher to get off the ground than it was with Maz, but I'm starting to hit my stride.

Looks like the Sotek dwarfs and the Loremasters are the main powers in Lustria so I will hold off on any adventuring. Between the Loremasters and Lothern alone the elves have 50 settlements so I'm not looking forward to that coalition.

Looking forward to Mortal Empires; hopefully they figure out a way to balance the Skaven food mechanic to make it fun - I have the same problem with them that I did with Chaos in the first game - I want to feel like a giant invincible horde sweeping everything before me, and neither delivers on that.

I think it'd be cool if the max campaign army size was based on points rather than number of slots. You could still have a max number of slots to avoid it getting overly crazy, but maybe open it up to 30 slots + points limit so if you take a bunch of elite units you can also take some cheaper units to fill out the army.

At the moment with the slot based system once your economy is solid there's no reason to take anything but the best of the best in each slot.

If it were point based there'd still be a reason late game to take units that maybe aren't the best but are cheaper.

I hope something is done to Chaos so you aren't spending turn after turn doing nothing either to finish a siege or repair after a battle. That's the biggest failing with Chaos. You have one army, and it does one thing, and it can't do anything else whilst you're sieging/waiting.

Yes, you can get more armies, but you earn so little money that that becomes prohibitive.

Yeah, they keep introducing all the fun new mechanics for evil armies, and it makes them a lot harder to play - animosity, food, horde infighting, loyalty. Loyalty and Animosity mostly work, but the other two are pretty crippling, and get worse as you scale up.

The food thing is probably my least favorite, because it has potential to be interesting, but ends up just being annoying. There should be an option to claim a territory as just a food-neutral outpost, otherwise you are leaving fallow ground for your enemies to sweep in behind your main armies and build up, since you just cannot claim all the territory. Even more annoying is there are food bonus special buildings in some areas - and you have no way of finding out in advance what areas have them without save scumming. Since you can't abandon settlements you either have to bite the bullet or raid your own territory for food until it rebels, let them win, and then raze things or do the aforementioned save scumming. It's far too time consuming.



So somehow in my Kroq play through I managed to ally with #1 power Lothern around turn 100, after 3 rituals - because all the dark elf factions declared war on me I suppose. We proceeded to carve up the Necrarch empire which was the top half of pseudo africa and now I have nowhere to expand except Lustria, so ... awkward homecoming I guess. Loremasters and Sotek Dwarfs have the whole continent sewed up; been at war with Loremasters for 80 turns so I guess it's time to go on the offensive.

I actually never had a problem with food on very hard no last saves load.

Right now I have 189 food +6

I find the key to skaven is 5 buildings in every area. The loyalty + the boost to income + the defense + any that boosts food + rat ogres locally.

Then turn all commendations to generate + 2 food then leave one army with 4 rat ogres 2 catapults with lots of clan rats and some runners if ur rich.

I own 8 areas I have 5 armies. 4 for defense with low upkeep upgraded on the lords. Then the 5th army is stroll with mass plague monk bearers 2 priests a warlock 3 cannons 2 ogres and 4 runners with poison.

Each big fight of you are clever you trick them isn't your land then get 8 death from bellow with skaven bombs.

Use the death from bellow to slow them while engineer boost sales cannons and use the bomb squad of blow up he weakness maven before they reach you

How do I turn off Dallas auto correct it is changing words like( then a)into anthem. And rewritting whole words. Again it changed rewritting into reselling.....

And... perfidious elves; they betrayed their military alliance with me suddenly at turn 125 or so. Gonna eat em all.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I actually never had a problem with food on very hard no last saves load.

Right now I have 189 food +6

I find the key to skaven is 5 buildings in every area. The loyalty + the boost to income + the defense + any that boosts food + rat ogres locally.

Then turn all commendations to generate + 2 food then leave one army with 4 rat ogres 2 catapults with lots of clan rats and some runners if ur rich.

I own 8 areas I have 5 armies. 4 for defense with low upkeep upgraded on the lords. Then the 5th army is stroll with mass plague monk bearers 2 priests a warlock 3 cannons 2 ogres and 4 runners with poison.

Each big fight of you are clever you trick them isn't your land then get 8 death from bellow with skaven bombs.

Use the death from bellow to slow them while engineer boost sales cannons and use the bomb squad of blow up he weakness maven before they reach you

How do I turn off Dallas auto correct it is changing words like( then a)into anthem. And rewritting whole words. Again it changed rewritting into reselling.....

Wait till late game.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
I actually never had a problem with food on very hard no last saves load.

Right now I have 189 food +6

I find the key to skaven is 5 buildings in every area. The loyalty + the boost to income + the defense + any that boosts food + rat ogres locally.

Then turn all commendations to generate + 2 food then leave one army with 4 rat ogres 2 catapults with lots of clan rats and some runners if ur rich.

I own 8 areas I have 5 armies. 4 for defense with low upkeep upgraded on the lords. Then the 5th army is stroll with mass plague monk bearers 2 priests a warlock 3 cannons 2 ogres and 4 runners with poison.

Each big fight of you are clever you trick them isn't your land then get 8 death from bellow with skaven bombs.

Use the death from bellow to slow them while engineer boost sales cannons and use the bomb squad of blow up he weakness maven before they reach you

How do I turn off Dallas auto correct it is changing words like( then a)into anthem. And rewritting whole words. Again it changed rewritting into reselling.....

Wait till late game.

I already beat it with skaven both times. Once as skrolk once as queek.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think it'd be cool if the max campaign army size was based on points rather than number of slots. You could still have a max number of slots to avoid it getting overly crazy, but maybe open it up to 30 slots + points limit so if you take a bunch of elite units you can also take some cheaper units to fill out the army.

At the moment with the slot based system once your economy is solid there's no reason to take anything but the best of the best in each slot.

If it were point based there'd still be a reason late game to take units that maybe aren't the best but are cheaper.

This is especially a problem when there's some interesting lower level stuff that gets dropped because it gets made redundant by higher level stuff. What empire player bothers with cannons when they can load up on steam tanks that give you just as much cannon killing, but are more mobile and don't need to be babysat?

In my current playthrough as High Elves I skipped over Silver Helms entirely and just waited for Dragon Princes.

This could be fixed by putting some caps on the number of high level units you can put on the field.

Probably the best way of fixing this would be capping the number of units that each military building can produce. So for instance if I build the building that lets me produce Dragon Princes, then that building will only let me build say 2 units of Dragon Princes total. I won't be able to build any more until one of the units already out in the field is destroyed or retired. As a result, to fill an army or two with huge numbers of high tier units you would need to invest in lots of level 5 cities with the correct investment chain.

This cap could be applied to low tier units as well. It would mean an empire that wanted multiple army stacks would actually have to invest in military production in lots of provinces, and not just have that one military production centre spamming units for new armies, funded by disarmed gold farms in every other province.

I agree with caps on recruitment. There shouldnt be 'army comp', as armies can occur by happenstance. I often amalgamate stacks under one leader and can end up with unusual mixes after casualties randomise available resources.

I think mid tier units should have a local recruitment cooldown, high tier units should have the same but factionwide. You should be able to go around provinces loading up on Silver Helms, at a rate of one or two each, but recruiting one Dragon Prince unit anywhere should put them on cooldown everywhere.

I also like the capping elite units idea. Would make things more interesting. The idea of having them cost a crap ton only really works up to a point. Once you're economy blows up, the cost of armies isn't much of a hindrance anymore.

 LordofHats wrote:
I also like the capping elite units idea. Would make things more interesting. The idea of having them cost a crap ton only really works up to a point. Once you're economy blows up, the cost of armies isn't much of a hindrance anymore.

Nah, I like my armies of nothing but swordmasters and star dragons, thank you.

 djones520 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I also like the capping elite units idea. Would make things more interesting. The idea of having them cost a crap ton only really works up to a point. Once you're economy blows up, the cost of armies isn't much of a hindrance anymore.

Nah, I like my armies of nothing but swordmasters and star dragons, thank you.

Each to their own, it should be included as an option button.

Note not a mod, as mods become obsolete as the DLC progresses.

I'm partial to loading up on the best dudes as well, but it does get pretty boring. I miss being able to raise an army in a few turns, as opposed to sitting there for 10+ because I'm waiting 3 turns at a time for a handful of elite units. I mean, I can still make basic armies, but at the point in the game where I'm able to afford elite ones, basic ones aren't going to be up to snuff except maybe as reinforcements and overwhelming numbers, or garrison forces.

A way of toggling how you want recruitment to be handled when you start a new campaign wouldn't go amiss. That way I can still have my Ironbreaker horde if I want to, but if I want to play a campaign where I'm forced to take something more balanced--and have the enemy similarly restricted--then I can.