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Wulfey wrote: Okay, I finally got my models based coated and washed. The bases are not quite ready yet but they are close. If they do well in tomorrow's tournament then they will get their faces done. The images are large so I am just going to post a link and 1 image. This is my full competitive forge world / on the edge of getting FAQd list.
Nice! Quick question: how did you go about magnetising your ironstriders? I have a bunch I’m building at the moment and I’ve all but given up on doing it in a ‘nice’ way. I guess at least magnetising the lance arm is easy enough but the arms in general are really badly designed imo.
There isn't really an easy way to do the arms. It requires good drill control and experience knowing when you are about to blast through the shoulder plate. Make sure you have at least the following gear:
Drill just enough so that the 3mm x 1.5mm magnet fits into the weapon shoulder. It will fit just right if you drill exactly 1.5 mm in. once you get 1.3mm in, reverse the direction of the drill and turn it to high speed and use it on backwards and slowly grind out that last .2mm. Then wiggle the drill around in the hole while reversed to widen out the hole to match 3mm. Then put in the smallest nibblet of green stuff and a good amount of super glue. Then check the polarity of the magnet with the model. Then push in the magnet after you have confirmed polarity. If you do it right, the magnet won't be sticking out of the model. One of my dragoons is actually pretty wrecked since it was one of my earlier magnetizations. My elysian command squads have secutarii peltast guns that are all magnetized. Those were hard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/14 15:50:43
Yeah I mean I hate magnetizing but honestly with the Ballistoon chassis you almost need to. The price to point ratio is pretty darn off the charts with them.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Huh, maybe I'm just plain wrong here but I really thought that a lascannon shot dealing multiple damage is still just one wound. Whereas two or more shots penetrating armour would be multiple wounds.
I've always understood it as;
Roll To Hit - "Did you hit?"
Roll To Wound - "Do you eventually get a chance to cause wounds?"
Roll For Damage - "How many wounds did you cause?"
What are peoples current thoughts on how big a game to include Knights what with how more vulnerable they are to massed fire now and how much points they take up. I'm considering getting one at some point, but the biggest games I will probably play would be about 2000 points. Also while you loose out of fluff and the stratagems what about one of the Baneblade variants as I assume a super-heavy auxiliary detachment is sill an Astra Millitarum detachment so would unlock the Take Cover! one.
I'll have a battle report later but can confirm 4 kastelans and two neutronagers at 1000 points is nasty when your opponent takes a land raider. #thisiswhyiamcappedat4kastelens
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/14 22:04:45
I use wire for my vehicles . I make small loops and I can remove the base and move in table. Dragoons I got fixed bases that force me to move them around in a bag fixed with foam and stationary places. I don't have 6 but 4 can be moved. Knights also separate case same foam cut each big part to fit. Don't know if you want to carry 2-3 cases but they are movable.
As for knights in lists . They are a major part of our history. But I prefer Robots onagers atm. When I play above 2k I definitely include knight. And I have been making a nice 3-4 knights ad mech Astra militarum soup as a planet defence. With bastions and kataphrons etc like the video but with knights as well.
Smaller list I don't really like solo knight. Cause I gotta invest in healing tpd and I consider minimum 2 knights to do the job and then need a dedicated dakka knight to utilise healing max ND we are at three knights again.
Somehow the game for me seems to be played more on focused lists than mixes atm . Robots ok 6 with Cawl almost 1000 knights two almost if not more 1000 points. So the lists work around a plan and that's about it .you need the rest for utility. Screener troops anti tank or antihorde etc etc more or less.
Wulfey wrote: Okay, I finally got my models based coated and washed. The bases are not quite ready yet but they are close. If they do well in tomorrow's tournament then they will get their faces done. The images are large so I am just going to post a link and 1 image. This is my full competitive forge world / on the edge of getting FAQd list.
Nice! Quick question: how did you go about magnetising your ironstriders? I have a bunch I’m building at the moment and I’ve all but given up on doing it in a ‘nice’ way. I guess at least magnetising the lance arm is easy enough but the arms in general are really badly designed imo.
There isn't really an easy way to do the arms. It requires good drill control and experience knowing when you are about to blast through the shoulder plate. Make sure you have at least the following gear:
Drill just enough so that the 3mm x 1.5mm magnet fits into the weapon shoulder. It will fit just right if you drill exactly 1.5 mm in. once you get 1.3mm in, reverse the direction of the drill and turn it to high speed and use it on backwards and slowly grind out that last .2mm. Then wiggle the drill around in the hole while reversed to widen out the hole to match 3mm. Then put in the smallest nibblet of green stuff and a good amount of super glue. Then check the polarity of the magnet with the model. Then push in the magnet after you have confirmed polarity. If you do it right, the magnet won't be sticking out of the model. One of my dragoons is actually pretty wrecked since it was one of my earlier magnetizations. My elysian command squads have secutarii peltast guns that are all magnetized. Those were hard.
I appreciate the effort you’ve put in to this reply, i perhaps should have been more specific lol. As someone that initially started out magnetising all the arms on my vanguard so I can switch them between rangers and vanguard I’m well accustomed to using magnets in the shoulders lol. Incidentally I use 2x1mm magnets.
What I really struggle with on these ironstriders is where the arms attach to the rest of the model. The weird handlebar arrangement they have going on and also the less than optimal surface for magnetising the balistarii guns.
- - -
I’m considering balistarii mainly because they’re reliable heavy weapons fire that doesn’t use a heavy support slot and you can also advance them and still fire at normal BS in a pinch with strategms; Or at 5+ without if you feel like reducing yourself to guardsmen/ork/tau lvl of shooting lol. Point per firepower onagers and robots are easily our best bet, but now onagers aren’t in a squad of 3 the slots soon disappear without adding more hq tax. Add a few balistarii and you have more heavy firepower for a single fast attack slot.
I also plan to use balistarii as my no-penalty anti-air. most non-eldar/non-tau only have a couple of hard to hit models, if those are also stygies/raven Guard/alpha legion/future -1 to hit traits I have the option of spending 1cp to potentially take them out rather than swapping a Neutronager for an otherwise sub-optimal icarus. That’s my experience anyway, makes for a much more exciting battle when you get your 3 neutron shots and wound with all 3, minimum 9 damage from a single model and rolling 6 * 3+ isn’t exactly unheard of.
Even if you took an entire army of Neutronager each still has the option of 6 * stubbed shots to weather the chaff units trying to lock you down. Hell I used an onager as a screening unit for my robots in my last battle, works just as well as 2 dragoons lol.
- - -
On the graia dogma: I read it slightly differently, in that it’s essentially reanimation protocols on single wound models, multi-dmg weapons dmg is wasted once the model was slain. The rule reads:
Roll a D6 each time a model with this dogma is slain or flees, on a 6 that sew to yield; either the wind that slew it is ignored or the model does not flee.
The model has to be already dead for this to kick in, it’s not wound based. so we do have a bit of a conundrum in that if the damage being dealt was multiple mortal wounds at what point do we make the rolls for refusal to yield? If all the models in a unit have been slain then surplus mortal wounds would be wasted; dmg is applied to a unit simultaneously, not in a sequence. So 6 mortal wounds against a 5 man squad would slay all 5 models at the same time, the 6th mortal wound is wasted. Then we roll for refusal to yield. After all the damage has been dealt. It’s slightly ambiguous I guessing depends, it would definitely be a per weapon roll as each weapon applies it’s damage in its own bubble. I read it as:
1, If someone fires a shot that does 6 damage on a dragoon with only 2 wounds left, you fail 2 rolls the model is slain and all remaining dmg is wasted. roll one d6 and on a roll of 6 it survives.
2, If someone smites a group of 5 vanguard for 6 damage, all 5 are slain. You roll 5 d6, 1 for each model.
3, If someone smites a group of 5 infiltrators for 6 damage, assuming they started this attack with 2 wounds each, 3 are slain. you would roll 3d6, 1 for each 2-wound model slain.
Playing devils advocate, you wouldn’t have to make 3 saves for a unit with 2 models if you failed your morale test by 3. In my mind this rule is actually the opposite of what people have been saying. It’s more powerful against multi dmg attacks and mortal wounds, but just as good against attacks on single wound models as a regular fnp.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I said I wasn’t gonna do this, but I have a bit of a reputation for magnetising models now, so I pretty much have to now lol
Throw out all of your small model count easily killable units. Time to cut those sniper team bases in half and turn them into conscripts (specifically the 30 man blob, since that is only 1 'unit'). Anything that can feed "I killed more units than you did" to your opponent is just throwing the game.
Also, buy more dragoons. 6 dragoons should be standard pretty much. InControl runs 6 for a reason. 6 almost feels like not quite enough. And yes, InControl was correct to run them as 1x6. No reason to give out two 'killed a unit' points. Also, run Stygies for the dragoons. Infilitrate or die is the new rule.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/15 17:17:37
Also, Cawl. Cawl gives up 4 "put 2 wounds on a designated character" points. So Cawl is this giant liability in ITC. Magnus can get the same rule, but requires 3 wounds to get 1 secondary point since he is a 'monster'.
Wulfey wrote: Also, Cawl. Cawl gives up 4 "put 2 wounds on a designated character" points. So Cawl is this giant liability in ITC. Magnus can get the same rule, but requires 3 wounds to get 1 secondary point since he is a 'monster'.
Well, potentially more then that since he heals himself.
Same goes with Dominus and every other character that can heal or resurrect themselves. I doubt people stop taking St. Celeste or Bobby G because of it.
Wulfey wrote: Also, Cawl. Cawl gives up 4 "put 2 wounds on a designated character" points. So Cawl is this giant liability in ITC. Magnus can get the same rule, but requires 3 wounds to get 1 secondary point since he is a 'monster'.
What the hell kinda batcrap rules are they making up now? Can’t we just play the game normally? It’s barely been out a few months and they’re already messing with it?
Octovol wrote: What the hell kinda batcrap rules are they making up now? Can’t we just play the game normally? It’s barely been out a few months and they’re already messing with it?
It's one of the secondary mission objectives that players can choose per game.
Spoiler:
Secondary Missions: Any Time Scoring.
Each player may score up to 4pts for each of the following Secondary Missions, for a total of 12 between the three they’ve chosen. These points can be scored at any time unless the timing is specified in the Secondary Mission description.
Headhunter: 1pt for destroying an enemy character.
Kingslayer: Choose an enemy model that is a Character.
Earn 1 point for every 2 wounds of damage you deal to it, cumulatively.
In the instance where a Character may regenerate wounds or resurrect during the course of the game, total wounds dealt to it over the course of the game are counted towards this mission.
If the model selected has the Character and Vehicle or Monster keywords, you earn 1 point for every 3 wounds dealt to it.
The Reaper: Earn a point for every enemy unit you destroy that began the game with 10+ models. If a unit begins the game with 20+ models, you earn 2 points for destroying it.
Recon: Have a unit at least partially in each table quarter at the end of your player turn. A unit may only count as being in one table quarter at a time for the purposes of this rule. 1pt per turn.
Big Game Hunter: 1 point for every model with 10 or more wounds you destroy.
Titan Slayers: For every 8 wounds dealt to units with the Titanic keyword in total throughout the course of the game, earn 1 point.
Example: You deal 4 wounds to one Titanic model turn 1, and 12 to a different Titanic unit turn 2, you’ve dealt 16 wounds total to Titanic models, and earn 2pts towards this objective.
Behind Enemy Lines: 1 point for every unit at least partially within 12” of your opponent’s deployment board edge at the end of the game.
Death by a Thousand Cuts: Each time you destroy 3 or more enemy units in a single Battle Round, you earn 1 pt.
Though when reading thorugh, you can only get a max of 4 points from that regardless of how much damage you do. Given Cawl is more likely to survive then a regular Dominus by sheer virtue of having more wounds, the overall effect is the same. Between headhunter and the self healing, you may likely end up with a Dominus giving up 4 points anyway. Compared to Cawl maxing at 5 with both of those objectives. I'd not stop taking Cawl and the benefits he gives over a potential 1 point mission difference.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wulfey wrote: Some harsh lessons from the new ITC rules:
Throw out all of your small model count easily killable units. Time to cut those sniper team bases in half and turn them into conscripts (specifically the 30 man blob, since that is only 1 'unit'). Anything that can feed "I killed more units than you did" to your opponent is just throwing the game.
Also, buy more dragoons. 6 dragoons should be standard pretty much. InControl runs 6 for a reason. 6 almost feels like not quite enough. And yes, InControl was correct to run them as 1x6. No reason to give out two 'killed a unit' points. Also, run Stygies for the dragoons. Infilitrate or die is the new rule.
Yes and no. Larger units will push larger volume of fire weapons so that you can still kill them in a turn. See Punisher/Turox Gatling Cannons for example. While those will be popular regardless, they have less of an impact when all those shots are wasted at a small unit. The Punisher especially, since shooting twice has to be at the same target. I don't think these rules shaft MSU, they just make taking a better balance more desirable. And you can certainly still run it, but you can wind up in a bad match up for sure. Then you will have to lean on your innate superior ability at board control and secondary objectives to win.
I also wouldn't base buying more Dragoons based on one skilled players list. Those players make the lists they do based on their play style and understanding of how they plan to use them within that list. Dragoons are fantastic, no doubt. But go back to 5th edition. "Leaf blower" got popular because Nick Rose rolled people with it for quite some time. Then everyone and their brother started copying it and trying to do the same with it. 95% of those players, at major events, stayed in the low and mid tables because they didn't know how to actually run it correctly. Where as Nick continued to be at top tables. Think about it.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/10/15 20:41:11
Why can’t they just use the existing objectives? Why invent more unofficial ones when the existing ones are fine? I guess it reduces the random nature of getting good or bad objectives. But if that’s the intention, just use the existing objectives in the same way they’re using their made up ones.
Octovol wrote: Why can’t they just use the existing objectives? Why invent more unofficial ones when the existing ones are fine? I guess it reduces the random nature of getting good or bad objectives. But if that’s the intention, just use the existing objectives in the same way they’re using their made up ones.
I obviously can't speak for them. But I would imagine that by saying "here are the objectives you will see in our events" is their way of building in stability. If you know what the primary objectives will always be and you also get to, after seeing your opponents army, choose your secondary objectives, you should be capable of building a list that in theory should minimize the effect of a bad match up.
So even when you run into an opponent that is bad for primary, you should have enough understanding of what they cannot do, or inversely, what they cant effectively stop you from doing to them when it comes to secondaries. In theory, this should mean that whatever to zero scores should be minimal and you can walk away from the games feeling that you were able to do something and get some points rather then a goose egg score.
It also speeds gameplay because you won't have to stop every player turn to roll up new tactical objectives for the players.
In the end, its how one group, albiet the current dominate group, promotes to play. People got bent over "INAT40k" that Adepticon played by for years. That spawned "NOVA40k" as something different which in turn spawned "ITC 40k". Everyone has their own view of how they like to play 40k. Best thing about it, is that no one is forced to play by that view. Even if its the popular view of the time, no one stops anyone with the drive and ability to do so, from promoting something different. Heck, Adpeticon only started because they felt they could run something better then GWGT's back in the day. Then NOVA and now ITC. Each of those three grew to the size they are, essentially, because they aren't the other guy and appealed to those who wanted change or something different in general.
In short, play how you like. If you don't like the format, promote one of your own. Even if only on a local level. There are lots of ways to have fun!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/15 21:46:03
I actually think the new ITC missions are a big improvement on over GW Maelstrom and a massive improvement over the old ITC missions. They just force a different style of thinking when it comes to what units to bring.
EDIT: a comment on plasma drop teams. I was really excited to use these things. In theory they are incredible damage for their points. And they are. Against things that you don't have a hard time killing as is. Against anything with a -1 to be hit they are very dodgy. And boy, even the mildest of shooting firepower erases plasmacide teams for free on the next turn. This has me thinking that my old list that had a better winning record had the right idea with eversor assassins and celestine. The eversor assasin can't threaten T7/3+ save vehicles the same way that a plasmacide team can, but the eversor is much better at rushing a troop squad on a far away objective and then lasting two turns holding that objective. A competent opponent will screen the good T7/3+ save models with crap I don't want to kill with the plasmacide team, thus forcing the plasmacide team into non-rapid fire range. Whereas the eversor loves crashing into a screening blob and has an invul save that might keep him on the board for a second turn.
Also, playing without celestine is super lame. Damn did she get me some wins. People just can't help but shoot at her. That is just great! Shoot at celestine! Go nuts! She usually has 2 lives and I even managed to get a 3rd life one time using the act of faith 'healing tears' to revive 1 model in celestine's unit that only had 1 gemini left.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 00:45:17
Same. The objectives in the rulebook are flawed unless you just want to kill stuff which is fine as well. Especially if you play by the rule of going first by having less units.
Chapter approved will hopefully brings a more tactical and interesting rule-set for tournaments and more official.
Played a game Friday, ended up running out of time in an uncertain position: I had shot the Iron Warriors mostly off of the board, but he was significantly ahead on victory points with something like 5 or 7 to my 2. Honestly not sure who would have won. The end of the game saw my Elysian Command Squads try and fail to kill his daemon prince, who promptly ate them before being killed in turn. Both Maulerfiend and Forgefiend closed on the Robot Cawl Wall though they were killed as well. Victor: uncertain.
I had a go at recording this game, though my phone ran out of battery part way through, the Proof Of Concept was a success. Got the camera to a good angle and had it record a time lapse. As I said it cuts off before the end, but the game didn't really conclude anyway, so here is my first go at making time lapses of the games I play. You can speed up or skip around because I put it at 1 frame per second:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 00:56:13
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Yeah, ITC is much better than the garbage GW missions. It is good that it punished high unit count. There are plenty of CP spam lists with a crapton of units. It is good that those lists get punished. Also, this is a beta. So it will change
So I am trying to bandwagon your list ph34r. What do you think about these as 'forgeworld' earthshakers?
This is kataphrons as treads, mantic bunker as base, knight shoulder and knight battle cannon as cannon (almost same stats right?), spare wings from fire raptor, spare console from fire raptor, and some peltasts just for demonstration.
ph34r wrote: Danny I believe the backup is are standard issue and Skitarii all have them? Not sure what bit the data tether is supposed to be.
Yeah every ranger/vanguard has some form backpack. There is a seperate one for the enhanced data tether, it comes with a different arm holding a little monitor-type device.
Sorry I just us "backpack" as shorthand for the data tether, since the model has a bigger backpack to identify it.
Those earth shakers look good to me Wulfey, the knight battle cannon fits well as an emplaced gun.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Wulfey, what kind of bitz box are you running where you have 3 knight RFBC arms and a bunch of Fire Raptor wings lying around ready to convert??
TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.
The mantic minis bunker set came with like 20 panels. So I tore my bunker apart. The knight battle cannons happen to be magnetized so I can just pull them off. And the fire raptor kit had a whole plastic stormraven. When you buy the fire raptor, you end up using maybe 1/3 of the plastic stormraven kit. The kataprhon treads are also magentized, so there are magnets under the platforms.
EDIT: this is what I am thinking on how to use these cobbled together cannons. I said I needed dragoons, but the problem is I only have 2. I don't have the CP or the detachments to spare to infiltrate them and I don't feel like buying more dragoons. Celestine has won me games before and she is already painted. She does almost the same thing that a few dragoons do and the eversors are good at clearing off infantry on objectives on the other side of the board. If I don't buy more dragoons ... the way I see it I should just use my third Onager cause those things are always winners. Does anyone know any good primers on how to use a Culexus? One of those eversors could easily be a Culexus but I don't know how to use them.
IMPERIUM Vangard Celestine 150 Eversor 70 Eversor 70 Eversor 70
CADIAN Vanguard CompComand 30 [optionally holds Relic of Cadia for 1CP versus Chaos players, this gives me 1 turn of Roboute's aura on the earthshakers] CADIAN Conscripts 87 CADIAN Earthshaker x3 240 Astropath 15 [-1 to be hit power -- used to buff conscripts] Astropath 15 [maelstrom power -- this is awesome for sniping characters] Commisar 30 1 WL/Relic 5+/5+ CP recycling
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/10/16 15:42:14
So a patrol gives you +3 command points. Anyone considering running a battalion of stygies vanguard or rangers for objective grabbing? Super cheap. But elsyians they ain't
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 16:38:31
So Stygies battalions. If i had to run full admech I would run one. The problem is that to get them onto the objectives you need and mid field you need to spend CP to get those vanguard into position. In an ITC game, the bottom floor of ruins is LOS blocking, so infiltrating 2 squads of vanguard into LOS block buildings can be really good. The big struggle with vanguard is that if you start them on your deployment area, then they don't get into range against an Eldar gunline until turn 3. Which is incredibly stupid.
KYAAOSw9~5ZVXMW
Standing in the light, I see only darkness. 
