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My quite possibly incorrect interpretation is the elves haven’t been on the island in a long time, and the current generation of humans might not have seen one before. I would easily see the superior nature of elves being exaggerated to even greater extremes. Then you get the whole this is man’s time now, and fear of the other, and that blacksmith scene doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
And the common people aren’t going to know Glad isn’t being well received in the palace. There’s no CSpan broadcasting that meeting to the people. They just know an elf showed up and was promptly escorted to their leader and she’s been allowed to remain even despite her buddy beating up four citizens in the street.
Humans are human and behave like humans and throughout history we generally behave in similar patterns.
So yes you can read modern social elements within stories, however its important to remember that many of those "modern" elements are simply the same kinds that have been kicking around for hundreds of years.
Racism isn't something modern nor new. The players might have changed around and the focus, but its been there for utterly ages.
Fear of losing your job to someone able to under cut you; surpass your skill etc... has always been there. The idea that a human would project this fear onto an elf is very logical. An elf able to work their craft for the equivalent of many human generations can achieve a level of skill that surpasses most humans. They don't have to train someone new; they don't have to worry about getting old; they might not seem to have issues with developing and changing impressions and technologies etc...
So yeah a blacksmith being fearfull that an elf would take their trade and then never retire - yeah that's a big fear. Esp because that blacksmith is now thinking that their son will never train in the family skill because, yep that same elf is going to outlive the son too.
I mean, is it really any more modern than the Luddites of the late 18th/early 19th century, railing against the automation that was replacing them, or the anti-chinese sentiment in 19h century America? about the only difference is those were reactions to trends already happening, not potential future events. Xenophobia and racisim is not some uniquely "modern" problem that didn't exist in the early 1900s. Hell, it was a problem as far back we can look.
What i found slightly odder was the dis-connect of the people of numernor, who on one hand were clearly insular and happy in splendid isolation, away form the happenings of the wider world and against any intrusion form that wider world...yet at the same time happy to volunteer to nobly go out, fight and possibly die for that same world. it just seemed their mood whiplashed between the two, when i would have though it would need to pass through a imperialist "show them the glory of Numernor" stage inbetween.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/22 10:24:15
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
What i found slightly odder was the dis-connect of the people of numernor, who on one hand were clearly insular and happy in splendid isolation, away form the happenings of the wider world and against any intrusion form that wider world...yet at the same time happy to volunteer to nobly go out, fight and possibly die for that same world. it just seemed their mood whiplashed between the two, when i would have though it would need to pass through a imperialist "show them the glory of Numernor" stage inbetween.
Well, they did get (more or less) a direct message from the gods, with the falling of the leaves of Nimloth, the White Tree of Numenor, the second they physically exiled Galadriel. A change of heart (at the upper management level) might, just might restore their fortunes and prevent the Great Wave.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: The people railing about Elves stealing our jobs knocked me out of the story, it was same sort of present day stuff as the dwarf tossing joke in LotR.
Just clumsy.
Now the scene in episode 1 where the humans gripe about elves controlling their land, that seemed for a second to be a modern comment about Iraq (or Palestine or where ever) but then it occurred to me it was just a appropriate for Ireland or India at the time Tolkien was writing, or about Israel during the Roman Empire.
Xenophobic concerns about job loss did not strike me as a modern concern only. And it certainly did not jar me as much as “nobody tosses a Dwarf” but to each their own.
I mean it's definitely not accurate to the relations the Numenoreans were shown to have with the Elves, especially up until that point, even in the show version and not the original lore, where there's like, what, one annoying elf in the city? It's not like there's a huge elf diaspora in Numenor taking up the city's resources or driving down their job market from cheap labour. Plus from what I remember there were several instances of Elves gifting Numenor several things for free with nothing in return, like the Palantir, so that would go against the idea of the elves being there to steal from them in some way.
It was the jealousy of the elve's immortality that was played upon by Sauron later on to Pharazon, who was tricked into thinking it was withheld from them. Not some bizarre modern fear of stolen labour that doesn't even match the events of the lore that the story is based upon.
xerxeskingofking wrote:What i found slightly odder was the dis-connect of the people of numernor, who on one hand were clearly insular and happy in splendid isolation, away form the happenings of the wider world and against any intrusion form that wider world...yet at the same time happy to volunteer to nobly go out, fight and possibly die for that same world. it just seemed their mood whiplashed between the two, when i would have though it would need to pass through a imperialist "show them the glory of Numernor" stage inbetween.
Divine intervention aside it looks like we have a baked in population of true believers throughout the island's population (especially in the west with Elendil's folk) but there's a good chance a number of them are like Isildur and friends, who for whatever reason don't feel like they can succeed at home and are seeking opportunity and glory.
Grimskul wrote:I mean it's definitely not accurate to the relations the Numenoreans were shown to have with the Elves, especially up until that point, even in the show version and not the original lore, where there's like, what, one annoying elf in the city? It's not like there's a huge elf diaspora in Numenor taking up the city's resources or driving down their job market from cheap labour. Plus from what I remember there were several instances of Elves gifting Numenor several things for free with nothing in return, like the Palantir, so that would go against the idea of the elves being there to steal from them in some way.
The show's presenting it as a macro-scale echo of Elrond and Durin's problem. Galadriel returns expecting men to be faithful to their past alliance as though she'd been gone for a month only to find generations have passed and opinions have changed drastically as they are wont to do. To her, men seem capricious and fickle, to them she is haughty and entitled. It's an interpretation of the difficulty elves have in accepting the mortality of men specifically that Tolkien alludes to in the Silmarillion, but doesn't delve too deeply in save for the general idea that an elves found the speed at which men wither and die to be terrifying.
Grimskul wrote:It was the jealousy of the elve's immortality that was played upon by Sauron later on to Pharazon, who was tricked into thinking it was withheld from them. Not some bizarre modern fear of stolen labour that doesn't even match the events of the lore that the story is based upon.
Some people are speculating that Sauron is already there, but I think those events have yet to happen. The show's just showing that there is a lot of fertile soil for Sauron to sow dissent when he does arrive.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
You could potentially justify "they're taking our jobs" if the show actually worked up to that plot point, but just dropping it in fully formed is not justified. The writers don't understand you have to build up some justification first. Especially if you don't want it to be easily seen as an out of context modern issue lazy drop in, which it absolutely 100% is.
Lazy writing is lazy. You need to actually work for something like that before you can just drop it in. Especially since there is no background justification for Elves coming to replace humans at their jobs. Given that there is zero Elven immigration and nobody pushing for it, it makes no sense that that would be a talking point for the masses. It only exists because the writers stuck it in there without any in-universe justification.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: You could potentially justify "they're taking our jobs" if the show actually worked up to that plot point, but just dropping it in fully formed is not justified. The writers don't understand you have to build up some justification first. Especially if you don't want it to be easily seen as an out of context modern issue lazy drop in, which it absolutely 100% is.
Lazy writing is lazy. You need to actually work for something like that before you can just drop it in. Especially since there is no background justification for Elves coming to replace humans at their jobs. Given that there is zero Elven immigration and nobody pushing for it, it makes no sense that that would be a talking point for the masses. It only exists because the writers stuck it in there without any in-universe justification.
Exactly. It would be just as out of place to have an newly orange-tinged Pharazon start fear-mongering with the Numenoreans over their land being taken by elves and that he should become the rightful ruler so he could "Make Numenor Great Again". I wonder if people would still try using their mental gymnastics to justify that if it was put into the show that way, because what we've seen is already pretty heavy-handed.
The show's presenting it as a macro-scale echo of Elrond and Durin's problem. Galadriel returns expecting men to be faithful to their past alliance as though she'd been gone for a month only to find generations have passed and opinions have changed drastically as they are wont to do. To her, men seem capricious and fickle, to them she is haughty and entitled. It's an interpretation of the difficulty elves have in accepting the mortality of men specifically that Tolkien alludes to in the Silmarillion, but doesn't delve too deeply in save for the general idea that an elves found the speed at which men wither and die to be terrifying.
See, I didn't get that at all.
Galadrial seemed fully aware that the Numenoreans had turned away when they arrived, so she just doubled down on being a butthole to them and demanding help??!#? There was no moment of naive "Good, we've been saved by the Numenoreans, surely they will help me" followed by confusion when they are openly hostile to her. That would actually have salvaged it somewhat.
Elrond did have that moment of confusion breaking him out of his naive sense of the passage of time. Galadrial shows no surprise over the actions of the Numenoreas, yet she acts totally the opposite of how anybody would act in that situation.
Galadrial would make more sense if she was a new made-up character for the show. A young impetuous elf who is fixated on destroying Sauron for made-up backstory reasons, an Elf who has never been to Valinor and was only a child during the War of Wrath. Lost her parents/siblings(also made up for the show). That is what they should have done. Made up their own character for the show if they want her to act like this.
Effing heck, replace Galadriel with her daughter! Have this be Celebrian instead. Then the pseudo romance vibes I'm getting between Elrond and her would be ok and while it doesn't make sense for Celebrian to be doing these things, it breaks the setting less than Galadrial being dumb as a rock.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/22 15:51:57
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
So just saw E5.
Back to major butchering of the lore again. Nonsense about a Silmaril being the source of Mithril and the Elves are going to die if they don't get it...
And minor gripe, why'd they make the 3 ships going so darn small? They're supposed to have 100 dudes on each ship. They need to be 3 times as big, and there is no reason they couldn't make them bigger. Just uggg, you've got a billion $ budget, at least make the ships a believable scale or have a dozen more.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I mean this whole jobs thing illustrates peferctly why this is not tolkien..
Like its a magical effin land with trees and stuff things like "job security" is as alien to this world as are actual alien space craft.. Its beyond stupid. The point is to have a world that is nothing like our and is not some weird allegory or a "reflection"
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Back to major butchering of the lore again. Nonsense about a Silmaril being the source of Mithril and the Elves are going to die if they don't get it...
And minor gripe, why'd they make the 3 ships going so darn small? They're supposed to have 100 dudes on each ship. They need to be 3 times as big, and there is no reason they couldn't make them bigger. Just uggg, you've got a billion $ budget, at least make the ships a believable scale or have a dozen more.
I'm sorry, they've done what concerning a Silmaril?? I really need to stop reading this, this is causing me pain to see what they're doing to the story
Back to major butchering of the lore again. Nonsense about a Silmaril being the source of Mithril and the Elves are going to die if they don't get it...
And minor gripe, why'd they make the 3 ships going so darn small? They're supposed to have 100 dudes on each ship. They need to be 3 times as big, and there is no reason they couldn't make them bigger. Just uggg, you've got a billion $ budget, at least make the ships a believable scale or have a dozen more.
I'm sorry, they've done what concerning a Silmaril?? I really need to stop reading this, this is causing me pain to see what they're doing to the story
Spoiler:
They've created a mythic orgin for Mithril. a story seen as legend, even to the most knowledgeable of the elfs, etc, etc.
A tree, high in the misty mountains, "within which, some claim was hidden the last of the lost Simarils". A unamed elf hero fought a Balrog over control of the tree, and at the climax of the fight, lighting struck the tree, and this mix of the powers of light, darkness and the gods and turned its roots into Mithril.
The elven king desires the mirthil as they have just discovered (immediately before the events of the series) their "light" is fading, and believe Mithril can be used to reinvigorate them somehow, or else they must flee to valinor or deminish and perish.
now, considering that thier WAS No lost simaril, just the three, whose fates we know (one went to the Valar to get them to stop morgoth, and became a star in the sky, one was cast deep into the sea, and one thrown into the depths of a "firey pit" that sounds like a volcano), i will let you make your own mind up about this new myth
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
I'm just..yeah i'm done. Mithril is just an incredibly rare, incredibly valuable metal. And as for the elf connection..that's enough butchering of the work now.
Still too much going on. Branching stories spread so thin that they all suffer. Writing/dialogue continues to be wildly mediocre. “You scratched me swinging wildly in a duel! Congratulations, you’re promoted to Lieutenant!’
Still intrigued by Adar as well as the meteor man, and Eminem finally shows up! The Harfoots continue to send mixed messages “Take their wheels” one of the old ladies says of the family who adopted the meteor man. But nobody gets left behind!
I honestly want to be done with this show, but its such a spectacle at times. There could have been something excellent here, but its been wildly mishandled, imo. I’ve watched every House of the Dragon episode 2-3 times and still want more. For this, I’m constantly looking at the clock, like a boxer just trying to survive a round.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/23 11:24:02
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
It continues to look brilliant. The Stranger is still interesting. Elendil, Durin and Elrond are still cool.
And those ships look big enough to us to hold 100 troops each although we are unsure about fitting horses as well. It is surprising just how many troops a ship can hold. Horses… no that is another matter.
But…
Spoiler:
.. there were more ships in the harbor so why only send three and hold back 200 volunteers when so many are keen to go?
The retcon on Mithril is to me the worst part of the show. It risks completely changing the nature of Bilbo's/Frodo's armor. Was it the “Light of the Valar” in the Mithril that allowed them to bear the ring so long? No, no it was just the good nature of Hobbits. Wouldn't the “Light of the Valar” have discouraged Shelob? No, no it was hidden under Frodo's shirt. And the Elves of Rivendell were ok with the Hobbits holding on to such a thing? Ugh.
And despite the chemistry of the actors for Durin and Elrond, that scene about the fate of Elves being in Durin's hands was terribly written. Way to abrupt admission of oathbreaking and forgiveness. And why did Elrond discuss it with Celebrimbor as if he still had a choice, he had broken oath already by talking to Celebrimbor.
Why does Galadriel's military history focus on her “company” when she was General of the Northern Armies? Wasn't her “company” her hand picked chosen few who would risk disobeying Gil-Galad out of personal loyalty to her and believing in her? The way all of that comes across just grates against my own views on how armies, including medieval fantasy armies, work.
Her sword fighting lesson was interesting to watch but again she comes across as more of a champion than a general.
Thinking about some of the writing feels like grading high school literature papers.
It does look like we are watching two timelines rather than having events happen simultaneously. The question now is, just who is Halbarad out of the young Southlands characters we have been shown so far… if he is indeed one of them.
So far the show has been better than I expected it to be and it still looks good but it is increasingly difficult to enjoy the poor writing and plot holes.
These issues bother me a lot more than concerns about Amazon trying to be woke. I think many people are seeing problems with that where they do not really exist. And I do not need to do mental gymnastics to justify that to myself or others. Now if they were trying to “Make Numenorean again” that would indeed be a problem.
The Numenor plot was a complete waste this episode. We left them last episode ready to leave with Galadriel and for all the concern and politics and empty threats of them backing off we end this episode in the exact same place with the exact same people.
I could be generous and say we've gotten a more nuanced picture of the different Numenorean characters, I wasn't under the impression that Isildur's sister was going to be much of a factor once they left (or would leave with them for some reason) but instead she's put her foot down on not wanting them to go and has been left to stew in that, along with Pharazon and a few others.
But really, the showrunners don't need to have Galadriel's arc be a focus every single episode, the Harfoot arc had a migration montage, we'd be able to accept the Numenoreans not appearing this episode and understand that time had passed.
I at least appreciate that we're seeing more interaction between her and Halbrand though. I hadn't realized that element had been left hanging until they took it up again.
I'm also reminded that as much as I don't feel like this character is Galadriel, I do like her as a character.
Arondir's arc is definitely in the C-plot position this time around, but we do get some important events. Waldreg and company leave the group so we won't get any shifty undercutting from within - though he may return with critical information on the tower's defenses - or deliver an ultimatum or something. Theo's come foreward with Stormbringer, so more characters can puzzle about its nature rather than just having Theo wander off and hurt himself with it.
Adar isn't keen to be compared to Sauron, looks like. He gets confirmation that the tunnel is complete, so there is some greater purpose for it that will hopefully be revealed before the end of the season.
The preview for next episode seems to be promising a big battle scene at the tower, which is something I'm really looking forward to comparing against the movies and certain other expensive fantasy TV shows we all know.
The Harfoot stuff this time around feels like two separate pieces that should have been further apart. The rude, selfish, advisor one going around, telling Sadoc to leave the Brandyfoots behind with no show of remorse at all for Largo's condition only to immediately turn around and be rescued by Meteor Man, then go around, offscreen, telling the other Harfoots how great and noble he was for saving her.
Speaking of Meteor Man - he's learning to talk - and he has some ominous stuff to say, warning Nori in particular that he is 'peril' and that apparently even he is upset and scared about the incident with the fireflies. He also ends up hurting Nori while in some kind of trance, speaking in tongues.
On the one hand, we're seeing more ominous magic imagery with him, this episode we see him throw back wolves by striking the earth with his arm, hurting himself, and healing himself later by sticking it in water and having it freeze over him. Combined with the way he makes the wind kick up, trees bow, fire kick up, and fireflies to die - we seem to be establishing a baseline power set across the traditional elements, but to what end I have no idea. I'm still leaning away from him being Sauron, as he expresses severe regret over killing the fireflies, and shows he is worried about hurting Nori and the others, and seemingly regretful when he accidentally does so - there's some essential concern for other people that doesn't line up with the desire to dominate thing.
Also, we saw the white-robed cultists, including the woman many have mistaken for Sauron in the previews - They're seemingly after Meteor Man, but they've got a ways to go if they're only just now discovering his crater.
And we got music! Road songs, drinking songs, good honest pages of little poems in service to a theme. I knew it was coming in some way because Poppy's is on the soundtrack, but I'm glad it was used in the show and not just as a credits thing.
Now for Durin and Elrond.
Ok. Big silvery elephant in the room: Mythical origin story for mithril? I suspect it isn't true at all - Elrond says its 'apocryphal' and everybody is being way too aggressive in talking about the Elves and their 'Light' as if it were a literal resource they require to live, and not a quality of their souls intrinsic to them as bestowed by Iluvatar.
As for the legend itself: I don't think they're saying there's a secret fourth Silmaril - but that this tree grew around, or at least temporarily stored one of the extant three. Of those three, one is most thoroughly accounted for, flying through the sky as a star. The other two were claimed by different sons of Feanor who, according to the Simlarillion, threw themselves into the sea and a fiery chasm respectively - its neatly symetrical, with one gem each in the earth, the sea, and sky, but does not rule out conflicting accounts for what happened to them, as those two brothers did whatever they did with the Silmarils on their own without witnesses.
Which is why it bears repeating that Tolkien wrote these stories to be myths as written by people who existed in our really real world, and not factual accounts of real events in a fantastical place, as you might see in fantasy works these days.
But yeah, I think its complete bunk - the signs and portents are pointing to doom rising again from the east, maybe even literally just Adar's apparent plot to blot out the sun. Gil Galad is convinced it can't be that so is grasping at straws to explain it with (actually) magic metal and vital essence- you'd think someone would have noticed Southlands' watch company never came home and that might have given him second thoughts?
Mithril itself is not so wild and fantastic as all that, and it was never treated as such. Numenor has some (or will have some by trade after establishing contact with Middle Earth again, maybe?) the elves use it in all sorts of crafts that they gift and trade to humans and dwarves for - they even alloy it to make magic letters that appear only by starlight and moonlight, etc. We're right on the precipice of a golden age of love and trade between Elves and Dwarves and the idea that you need to motivate it with some existential threat to the Elves (real or imagined) is insulting to the audience. It can just be a cool metal, people!
I suspect there's going to be a reveal at some point that the Silmaril part never happened, and that the myth arose the way it did exclusively because of the Balrog. Then again, it'd be just as easy to say the elf in question was Maedhros, and that he fell into that pit while fighting a Balrog who'd come to claim his hard won Silmaril from him or something.
Also, Durin's antics with the table are fun Dwarf stuff, but I'd rather he hadn't done that. The actor's charismatic enough that he could have played the perfectly polite statesman and still demanded the table to show how desperate the elves were to make the deal work.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
In fairness, they could still make this whole Mithril nonsense be some elaborate lie or ruse of Sauron's that he planted long ago with the purpose of sowing discord between Elves and Dwarves. And if Anatar is indeed with Celebrimbor already maybe he's poking the bear by saying they need Mithril to do the thing with the forge and stuff.
I do believe that the fates of the last 2 Silmarils may not be in-universe knowledge. While it is known that Maglor and Maedhros stole the last two from the host of Valinor, it may not be known what they did afterwards. That is something we the readers know, but I doubt there was anyone to witness Maedhros throwing himself into a volcano or Maglor tossing his into the sea as they were all alone at this point. Maybe someone could have met Maglor afterwards while he wanders the shores of Middle Earth for the rest of time and maybe he told the tale, but it's not certain.
Maybe, maybe this is some in-universe long deception.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The Numenor plot was a complete waste this episode. We left them last episode ready to leave with Galadriel and for all the concern and politics and empty threats of them backing off we end this episode in the exact same place with the exact same people.
I could be generous and say we've gotten a more nuanced picture of the different Numenorean characters, I wasn't under the impression that Isildur's sister was going to be much of a factor once they left (or would leave with them for some reason) but instead she's put her foot down on not wanting them to go and has been left to stew in that, along with Pharazon and a few others.
But really, the showrunners don't need to have Galadriel's arc be a focus every single episode, the Harfoot arc had a migration montage, we'd be able to accept the Numenoreans not appearing this episode and understand that time had passed.
I at least appreciate that we're seeing more interaction between her and Halbrand though. I hadn't realized that element had been left hanging until they took it up again.
I'm also reminded that as much as I don't feel like this character is Galadriel, I do like her as a character.
Arondir's arc is definitely in the C-plot position this time around, but we do get some important events. Waldreg and company leave the group so we won't get any shifty undercutting from within - though he may return with critical information on the tower's defenses - or deliver an ultimatum or something. Theo's come foreward with Stormbringer, so more characters can puzzle about its nature rather than just having Theo wander off and hurt himself with it.
Adar isn't keen to be compared to Sauron, looks like. He gets confirmation that the tunnel is complete, so there is some greater purpose for it that will hopefully be revealed before the end of the season.
The preview for next episode seems to be promising a big battle scene at the tower, which is something I'm really looking forward to comparing against the movies and certain other expensive fantasy TV shows we all know.
The Harfoot stuff this time around feels like two separate pieces that should have been further apart. The rude, selfish, advisor one going around, telling Sadoc to leave the Brandyfoots behind with no show of remorse at all for Largo's condition only to immediately turn around and be rescued by Meteor Man, then go around, offscreen, telling the other Harfoots how great and noble he was for saving her.
Speaking of Meteor Man - he's learning to talk - and he has some ominous stuff to say, warning Nori in particular that he is 'peril' and that apparently even he is upset and scared about the incident with the fireflies. He also ends up hurting Nori while in some kind of trance, speaking in tongues.
On the one hand, we're seeing more ominous magic imagery with him, this episode we see him throw back wolves by striking the earth with his arm, hurting himself, and healing himself later by sticking it in water and having it freeze over him. Combined with the way he makes the wind kick up, trees bow, fire kick up, and fireflies to die - we seem to be establishing a baseline power set across the traditional elements, but to what end I have no idea. I'm still leaning away from him being Sauron, as he expresses severe regret over killing the fireflies, and shows he is worried about hurting Nori and the others, and seemingly regretful when he accidentally does so - there's some essential concern for other people that doesn't line up with the desire to dominate thing.
Also, we saw the white-robed cultists, including the woman many have mistaken for Sauron in the previews - They're seemingly after Meteor Man, but they've got a ways to go if they're only just now discovering his crater.
And we got music! Road songs, drinking songs, good honest pages of little poems in service to a theme. I knew it was coming in some way because Poppy's is on the soundtrack, but I'm glad it was used in the show and not just as a credits thing.
Now for Durin and Elrond.
Ok. Big silvery elephant in the room: Mythical origin story for mithril? I suspect it isn't true at all - Elrond says its 'apocryphal' and everybody is being way too aggressive in talking about the Elves and their 'Light' as if it were a literal resource they require to live, and not a quality of their souls intrinsic to them as bestowed by Iluvatar.
As for the legend itself: I don't think they're saying there's a secret fourth Silmaril - but that this tree grew around, or at least temporarily stored one of the extant three. Of those three, one is most thoroughly accounted for, flying through the sky as a star. The other two were claimed by different sons of Feanor who, according to the Simlarillion, threw themselves into the sea and a fiery chasm respectively - its neatly symetrical, with one gem each in the earth, the sea, and sky, but does not rule out conflicting accounts for what happened to them, as those two brothers did whatever they did with the Silmarils on their own without witnesses.
Which is why it bears repeating that Tolkien wrote these stories to be myths as written by people who existed in our really real world, and not factual accounts of real events in a fantastical place, as you might see in fantasy works these days.
But yeah, I think its complete bunk - the signs and portents are pointing to doom rising again from the east, maybe even literally just Adar's apparent plot to blot out the sun. Gil Galad is convinced it can't be that so is grasping at straws to explain it with (actually) magic metal and vital essence- you'd think someone would have noticed Southlands' watch company never came home and that might have given him second thoughts?
Mithril itself is not so wild and fantastic as all that, and it was never treated as such. Numenor has some (or will have some by trade after establishing contact with Middle Earth again, maybe?) the elves use it in all sorts of crafts that they gift and trade to humans and dwarves for - they even alloy it to make magic letters that appear only by starlight and moonlight, etc. We're right on the precipice of a golden age of love and trade between Elves and Dwarves and the idea that you need to motivate it with some existential threat to the Elves (real or imagined) is insulting to the audience. It can just be a cool metal, people!
I suspect there's going to be a reveal at some point that the Silmaril part never happened, and that the myth arose the way it did exclusively because of the Balrog. Then again, it'd be just as easy to say the elf in question was Maedhros, and that he fell into that pit while fighting a Balrog who'd come to claim his hard won Silmaril from him or something.
Also, Durin's antics with the table are fun Dwarf stuff, but I'd rather he hadn't done that. The actor's charismatic enough that he could have played the perfectly polite statesman and still demanded the table to show how desperate the elves were to make the deal work.
Interesting food for thought, thanks for that Captain Joystick. What you have said makes sense and I would tend to agree with you.
And yes, the scenes with the Harfoots where “no one gets left behind….” until someone does… are again jarring. The inconsistency is what makes my head hurt.
Spoiler:
Arondil's “action scene” in episode 4makes no sense to me. Why release him to deliver a message to then have him killed before he can deliver the message? How did he get his weapons? Did the Orcs give them back? Why? Did he recover them from some hidden cache? That is my head canon on it I guess. The excellent Orc archers that shot the Elven Captain previously clearly had a day off during Arondil's flight….
Something I seem to recall Bernard Cornwell using in the Uhtred Saga.
because the Orcs weren't chasing Arondir,
Spoiler:
they where chasing THEO
. Whom Arondir was protecting. seriously, it's not hard to grasp.
Let me spell it out for you.
Spoiler:
the sword is clearly the important artifact Adar is chasing. he released Arondir to ask the townsfolk to surrender, because he figured if they did we could get the location of the sword hilt easiest.
after they saw Theo with it though obviously the objective became GET THEO
Kid_Kyoto wrote: The people railing about Elves stealing our jobs knocked me out of the story, it was same sort of present day stuff as the dwarf tossing joke in LotR.
Just clumsy.
Now the scene in episode 1 where the humans gripe about elves controlling their land, that seemed for a second to be a modern comment about Iraq (or Palestine or where ever) but then it occurred to me it was just a appropriate for Ireland or India at the time Tolkien was writing, or about Israel during the Roman Empire.
Xenophobic concerns about job loss did not strike me as a modern concern only. And it certainly did not jar me as much as “nobody tosses a Dwarf” but to each their own.
that's because it's not modern, xenophobic worries about job loss is as old as immigration. Anyone who thinks it's a "modern thing" is at best historicly ignorant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/23 21:57:39
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Racism (as we are used to thinking about it) is a modern phenomenon and not depicted in this show.
As others have said, fear of the outsider/foreigner is as old as human society. Just off the top of my head, the myth about Medea and Jason comes to mind. Framing the question economically is no doubt meant to create real-life relatability but more importantly to highlight that Elves and Men are not different races in the IRL sense but significantly more different.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/23 22:38:52
The Numenoreans are afraid that elves are going to take their jerbs, despite the only elf in the city not doing anything to indicate that she wants a job, and constantly demanding to leave.
In fact the only person who has LITERALLY tried to take one of their jobs is a man.
Lord Damocles wrote: The Numenoreans are afraid that elves are going to take their jerbs, despite the only elf in the city not doing anything to indicate that she wants a job, and constantly demanding to leave.
In fact the only person who has LITERALLY tried to take one of their jobs is a man.
It’s almost as if such concerns are rarely all that rational?
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Speaking of racial tensions and political messaging; has anyone pointed out that we have a northern Mediterranean country complaining about shipwrecked refugees?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/24 19:43:43
Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today?
Lord Damocles wrote: The Numenoreans are afraid that elves are going to take their jerbs, despite the only elf in the city not doing anything to indicate that she wants a job, and constantly demanding to leave.
In fact the only person who has LITERALLY tried to take one of their jobs is a man.
It’s almost as if such concerns are rarely all that rational?
There still needs to be a triggering incident for someone to make the leap. 1 Elf and 1 human tag-along are not going to realistically cause this kind of reaction in even the most Xenophobic society. It is a comical stretch that only exists because the writers were trying to tie in IRL drama. It has no logical justification for being there, it just is because the writers willed it to be.
Again, it shows the absurd lack of ability, talent, and experience on the part of the writers for a billion $ show.
And despite this apparently massive xenophobia which has developed to the point we are shown, they still have tons of volunteers for the mission to Middle Earth. The malcontent with the Galadrial's presence is completely forgotten by the general public almost immediately.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/25 03:02:38
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Lord Damocles wrote: The Numenoreans are afraid that elves are going to take their jerbs, despite the only elf in the city not doing anything to indicate that she wants a job, and constantly demanding to leave.
In fact the only person who has LITERALLY tried to take one of their jobs is a man.
It’s almost as if such concerns are rarely all that rational?
There still needs to be a triggering incident for someone to make the leap. 1 Elf and 1 human tag-along are not going to realistically cause this kind of reaction in even the most Xenophobic society. It is a comical stretch that only exists because the writers were trying to tie in IRL drama. It has no logical justification for being there, it just is because the writers willed it to be.
Again, it shows the absurd lack of ability, talent, and experience on the part of the writers for a billion $ show.
And despite this apparently massive xenophobia which has developed to the point we are shown, they still have tons of volunteers for the mission to Middle Earth. The malcontent with the Galadrial's presence is completely forgotten by the general public almost immediately.
Well populations of large cities tend to be large. So totally understandable that even with a cohort of malcontents, there will be a larger segment of the population that aren't so ready to bring out the burning pitchforks.
The scene with the malcontents didn't show the entire population up in arms, but rather a small section of it.
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
And yes, the scenes with the Harfoots where “no one gets left behind….” until someone does… are again jarring. The inconsistency is what makes my head hurt.
Spoiler:
Arondil's “action scene” in episode 4makes no sense to me. Why release him to deliver a message to then have him killed before he can deliver the message? How did he get his weapons? Did the Orcs give them back? Why? Did he recover them from some hidden cache? That is my head canon on it I guess. The excellent Orc archers that shot the Elven Captain previously clearly had a day off during Arondil's flight….
Something I seem to recall Bernard Cornwell using in the Uhtred Saga.
because the Orcs weren't chasing Arondir,
Spoiler:
they where chasing THEO
. Whom Arondir was protecting. seriously, it's not hard to grasp.
Let me spell it out for you.
Spoiler:
the sword is clearly the important artifact Adar is chasing. he released Arondir to ask the townsfolk to surrender, because he figured if they did we could get the location of the sword hilt easiest.
after they saw Theo with it though obviously the objective became GET THEO
Kid_Kyoto wrote: The people railing about Elves stealing our jobs knocked me out of the story, it was same sort of present day stuff as the dwarf tossing joke in LotR.
Just clumsy.
Now the scene in episode 1 where the humans gripe about elves controlling their land, that seemed for a second to be a modern comment about Iraq (or Palestine or where ever) but then it occurred to me it was just a appropriate for Ireland or India at the time Tolkien was writing, or about Israel during the Roman Empire.
Xenophobic concerns about job loss did not strike me as a modern concern only. And it certainly did not jar me as much as “nobody tosses a Dwarf” but to each their own.
that's because it's not modern, xenophobic worries about job loss is as old as immigration. Anyone who thinks it's a "modern thing" is at best historicly ignorant.
No need to be rude about it BrianDavion. Yes, you are quite correct the Orcs were chasing Theo and the Sword. That still does not explain Arondil's weapons. I may be wrong but I do not remember him wearing armor in that scene but he has armor, damaged armor at that, in the tower. I am curious where it is from. I can create my own head canon but I prefer a show to at least give me some hints at least. I understand getting the right balance of just enough without “hand holding” is difficult.
To be clear, I find the writing in Rings of Power to be the weakest link. It is not abysmal but I would have hoped a flagship project like this would have done better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/25 10:29:25
* I quite enjoyed the song and the Halflings are less annoyig than I anticipated
* I also liked that the humans did not all unite against the Orcs and many tried to join them
* The relief force of the great and powerful Numenor is a grand total of .....500 soldiers and three transport ships.....its wierd with such a budget it all seems so small scale.
* Elrond/Dwarf is still a stand out but I still like Galadriel
but then we had...
Spoiler:
The Elves need a recharge from the Simiril - ok WT actual F??
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