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Eldenfirefly wrote: I want more discussion on the shooty chaos lists. I have tried to make more melee oriented CSM lists, but those have so far always fallen flat. Fodder and bubble wrap makes it really tough. And nowadays, our hard melee characters aren't even necessarily the most killy as well. One good example would be that blood angels captain. That guy wrecks face, and the most scary thing is, after he dies, they can use one more strategem to make him strike back one last time in melee. He actually has a very small profile (in terms of area taken up), and he has a jump pack so its not hard for him to fly over the fodder to get to where he wants. And being a character, he benefits from character rules as well if he is attacking along with his other death company buddies.
I take six Missile wielding Chaos Marine uniits and 2 Havoc units plus a defiler. Defiler is just there because it looks great (to me) and I really like having a centerpiece. So thats my gunline along with the three Chaos Lords, one of which uses the smite bullets (as I like to call them). three terminator dakka units to drop in and keep people pinned in are also part of it and then three Spawn to run around and snake objectives or defend the gunline as they are able.
The missiles have proven to be so good for the Chaos build I use. Its a Brigade (obviously) and it looks pretty darn pedestrian but it does well nonetheless. It's not flashy or got a big "loadout" but that leaves me free to use the Strategems without needing to "store them up" for some big plan. Overall, its just a fundamental list but it works.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
MrPieChee wrote: I've not seen much mention of spawns in 8th chaos - what's the consensus on them? Is the very random nature of their damage too difficult to rely on?
If you want to fill out a CSM Brigade or Outriders, they're a cheap 4W that can hide and block DS etc
Not really fast or reliable enough to take as a Rushdown horde, they're more like guard dogs than knights
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 19:06:47
MrPieChee wrote: I've not seen much mention of spawns in 8th chaos - what's the consensus on them? Is the very random nature of their damage too difficult to rely on?
I would swear by Spawn in 7ty edition, using the to escort Chaos Lords into battle.
This edition they're still pretty good, but slower, which reduces their escort ability, and compared to a Plague Drone for the 1 pt difference, makes them a harder sell.
But, I have about 12 of them still so they make it into some themed lists. Pre-set Deepstrike, they were good to deny a deployment zone. All the mutations are pretty useful and their ap-2 2 damage is really good.
My Spawn usually do well. I typically run them anywhere from 1-3 strong.
They are really cheap, t5 makes them somewhat resilient to most small arms, and if your enemy commits heavy weapons to them you are laughing. Don't expect anything from them and just use them as a nagging thorn in your opponents head. They are nothing if not disposable.
If I have the points I like to make them 3 strong. That's when they really start worrying an opponent as two spawn making contact is pretty dangerous. You want your spawn to be too dangerous to ignore but not worth commitng heavy guns to
I've always been pretty happy with how my unit of 5 spawn performs. They're a very solid "beef" unit that sits right in the middle of the road. They're not too expensive, they're slightly above-normal speed and toughness, but have enough wounds to feel durable. Their attacks are unreliable, but still hit hard enough to tear up a lot of targets.
I think they're best targets are elite units, with good saves and multiple wounds (TEQs), where their AP and damage will really earn their points back. Sometimes they have trouble clearing chaff, because their random attacks can really work against you, and WS 4+ is a bitch when you need to land lots of hits.
I’m planning out what my World Eaters contingent will look like
So far I’ve got this Brigade drafted down
Spoiler:
The biker Lord hangs out with the predators and scarecrows deep strikers and the like
Th juggerlord runs up with the Rhinos
The Possessed ride in the mole machine
The DA and EC either ride in the Rhinos or KAC
Warp Talons and Contemptor are kind of wild cards to react to enemy deployment
I’m assuming Angry Ron will be joining them during the building of the army. I’d probably take an extra DA & EC and field a Supreme Command with him or else go HA soup with my Word Bearers Spartan and some Knight type thing
Alternatively, tempted to give this lot a Typhon as it looks so cool in WE (pre heresy) colours, and a Kytan or LoS
Juggerlord - axe of blind rage, combi-melta
Terminator Lord - chainfist, combi-melta, hatred incarnate, talisman
Dark Apostle - bolt pistol, power maul
Exalted Champion - whatever
Chaos Lord on Bike - combi-bolter, power axe, brass collar
What's the plan for the termite? Those mole machines sure are cool, but it would be difficult to make them work considering the earliest their payload can get amongst it is turn 3.
But like I said, they are very cool. Can something be cool enough to reach auto-include status?
Gonna put the Possessed in the Termite. A mid game wildcard. Mostly play Maelstrom; I find something reactive with punch and staying power is useful around that point
Sooooooo I got a Defiler in mint condition (primed with some gold edging, hes just missing his flag topper) for $20. A steal when you look at the price of the model. Dudes armed with a Havoc Launcher and Autocannon, not the best, but it'll do. I know Defilers are seen as less optimal, but hell, for $20.... how would ya'll use em?
EDIT: Instead of just being snarky, basic consensus is rip off his havoc launcher, paste on a spare dread scourge or something, and use him as a big 169 point distraction. He is big and looks scary, he hits stuff hard in close combat, and if you really need him to shoot you have strategems to give him a passable phase (re-roll hits and wounds, ignore move and shoot penalty, and possibly # of battle cannon shots). He is good at taking fire off more valuable targets like Rhinos with troops in them, or your own Dreads / Predators with heavy weapons and less durability. If he dies, whatever.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 13:04:19
Nightlord1987 wrote: So which legion trait works best for Raptors? I haven't painted mine yet, so I'm leaning towards Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, or Night Lords. I use one unit with plasma, one unit melta, one unit plasma pistols. Iron Warriors trait does come in handy since I play against gun line Marines fairly often, AL is always good for durability and Forward Operative melta guns, and Night Lords are just my favorite Legion.
Nightlord1987 wrote: So which legion trait works best for Raptors? I haven't painted mine yet, so I'm leaning towards Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, or Night Lords. I use one unit with plasma, one unit melta, one unit plasma pistols. Iron Warriors trait does come in handy since I play against gun line Marines fairly often, AL is always good for durability and Forward Operative melta guns, and Night Lords are just my favorite Legion.
Nurgle Night Lords Raptors. HILARIOUS LD debuffs.
And then take some Furies for some more.. seems fun
He’s stompy in cc, but everyone knows that and usually shoots him off the first couple turns, usually dedicating 4 times the points in firepower than his worth and ignoring my Dreads and Artillery
I use my DG defiler pretty much mainly for CC. The strat for auto blow up in the DG codex can be hilarious.
One trick i find is to advance it first turn and pop smoke esp with miasma for a -2 to hit that can really take the edge off that first volley of shots.
Usually tag team it with my flying prince to cast said power and be a dual threat plus the defiler is so big it can normally make sure the prince is not the closest model.
A decent shooty army will take your defiler out if they want to but hey... means other stuff isnt dead.
Hmm. I’ve got a Defiler kit unbuilt. Might have to give it a go. I’ve already got three PBC for my DG Brigade. Planning on having three Predators in my WE Brigade. Daemonic stuff fits in nicely with my WB main collection.
I can see arguments to have it, and two Maulers, as my WE Heavies. Bring in a Skullmaster and they’re all re-rolling charges.
However... the Predators fill a gap in the WEs. Got very little gunnery in my plans, other than them. Themeatically, they’d fit well with the multiple Rhinos in that collection. The Daemon engines don’t benefit from Legion traits, either... which makes the opportunity loss minimal when they’re Word Bearers, aaaand also means that with magnetised runes or such I can give them charge re-rolling, or charge after advance, or -2 to be hit plus Epidemius stoking, or a very weak dodge.
I dunno how people feel about allying renegades and heretics but I love the renegade commander.
He’s cheap and unbelievably non threatening. Great for just sprinting on an objective because no one will bother killing him if they have bigger and more immediate issues that need to be handled.
And picking up a Spearhead of IG tanks or a vanguard of snipers is far from the worst thing you can buy imo
The vanguard with the commander is under 150 points
Demon engines do not receive legion traits??? So my Blood Slaughterer shouldn't be getting +1A on the charge?! :(
Brutes, bikers and infantry. Nobody else.
Oh gak, not even my Demon Prince? Man have I been playing wrong, good thing I switched him over to the Demons' book. So, luckily it's only the Blood Slaughterer and he's already got plenty of attacks, so that's fine.
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
lindsay40k wrote: Hmm. I’ve got a Defiler kit unbuilt. Might have to give it a go. I’ve already got three PBC for my DG Brigade. Planning on having three Predators in my WE Brigade. Daemonic stuff fits in nicely with my WB main collection.
I can see arguments to have it, and two Maulers, as my WE Heavies. Bring in a Skullmaster and they’re all re-rolling charges.
However... the Predators fill a gap in the WEs. Got very little gunnery in my plans, other than them. Themeatically, they’d fit well with the multiple Rhinos in that collection. The Daemon engines don’t benefit from Legion traits, either... which makes the opportunity loss minimal when they’re Word Bearers, aaaand also means that with magnetised runes or such I can give them charge re-rolling, or charge after advance, or -2 to be hit plus Epidemius stoking, or a very weak dodge.
Big fan of 3 Predators but I've only used them with Black Legion. Would take them over Daemon Engines any day.
Would love to see whatever WE list you are working on, thinking they are going to do well in the meta once players get past their obsession with gunlines.
This whole speed vs durability issue is a really interesting balancing act. There's a need to move fast and strike hard, but also to have a second wave capable of doing some damage. Sometimes it's hard to see past Berzerkers to lay out a full army.
I broke out my Rhino Rush army from 5th edition to think through what an 8th edition WE army should look like. So far, I've got a set of fast strike units consisting of 3 x 3 Bikers and a Heldrake for early harassment, followed by a rush with a DP, 3 Rhinos and Kharn + 29 Berzerkers. Giving myself a little AV with combi-plasma on the Rhinos, but I haven't settled on what to do past that.
While I want to use Laspreds... they are no where near as efficient without rerolls from Abaddon. I would not want them going up against Alaitoc, Raven Guard or Alpha Legion. I have 3 Scorpius Whirlwinds and 3 Decimators, which might be better options due to volume of fire and ability to dish out mortal wounds. Maybe with a Chaos Lord for rerolling 1's.
While I want to use Obliterators... I'm thinking it's going to be hard to use them optimally. I would have to clear out some chaff to give them a good landing zone, and that might not be what this list is designed for. I'm thinking a Bloodletter Bomb might be the better answer, for flooding sections of the board where my Berzerkers haven't reached.
But there's still a lot of AV missing. If Spartans were 50 points less, I would be looking at that and getting rid of Rhinos.
Change the first sentence of rules text to read:
‘If your army is Battle-forged, all Daemon Prince,
Infantry, Bikers and Helbrute units in Chaos Space
Marine Detachments gain a Legion Trait, so long as every
unit in that Detachment is from the same Legion.’
Let's say I have two berzerker units. One is already in my Rhino. the other one is coming up behind my Rhino.
Within the same turn, can I
1) Disembark my existing squad of berzerkers inside my Rhino to get that 3 inch, then move off with it, charge something.
2) The second unit of berzerks behind my Rhino move within 3 inches of my Rhino and embarks in it.
3) The Rhino then moves off with the second unit of Berzerkers embarked in it.
Yes, and furthermore if you then fire both barrels on your rhino’s optional Combi-plasma, and it blows up the rhino, you get to place the squad inside on the table with an additional 3”
Abuse the hell out of this before they edit it so the plasma causes 1MW, or units that come out of blown up vehicles can’t shoot or charge in the same turn
I have a spare 135 pts in myist and decided to drop some Warp Talons in. But these guys really needed base 2 attacks or something... They seem to fit best in a World Eaters list, but I'm willing to bet if and when World Eaters get a book, the Warp talons will be missing...
I would LOVE base 2 warp talons. And the option for icons. *dreams of running jugger-herald with 8 talons blendering all the guardsmen*
Kharneth give autocannon havocs a go. Cheap and puts out a good amount of firepower. I've been running 2 squads with my World Eaters for a while now and they've been doing just fine. I run the champ with a combi-bolter for a few plinking shots on top of that.
StarHunter25 wrote: I would LOVE base 2 warp talons. And the option for icons. *dreams of running jugger-herald with 8 talons blendering all the guardsmen*
Kharneth give autocannon havocs a go. Cheap and puts out a good amount of firepower. I've been running 2 squads with my World Eaters for a while now and they've been doing just fine. I run the champ with a combi-bolter for a few plinking shots on top of that.
125? Ugh, that's exactly how many spare points I have for my 1500pt list. I've tried Obliterators and they were too expensive for too little. I switched to Predator cuz all I was shooting were tanks and it's 5pts cheaper for more punch (plus, Oblits don't exist in Khorne Daemonkin.... dunno why). But the Predator let me down!
Maybe I'll try 5 havocs. I used them before (with the Pred) and they were lackluster, but that was only once.
But if I take them, Khorne will be disappointed with me... aaaand I don't have the models.
Blood for the Blood God!
Skulls for the Skull Throne!
seems fun 
