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Hmm. Units and attacks that can freely select characters as targets - R&H snipers, Infernal Gaze, Doombolt, Bolt of Change, situationally Treason of Tzeentch, etc - take on a whole new element when we have a modestly reliable way to force fragile support characters to take 2D3 wounds. I’m not going to try to pull off a level 8-9 spell like three times to try to knock down an enemy, but if I can get an easy four MW for 1CP, that’s not too shabby.

Hmm. Zoanthropes, and their easy access to ‘reroll 1’s to cast’ buff. I think that might make doubles *more* likely? It means a full reroll of the 1/36 1-1 score, buuut on all 10/36 of the 1-(>1) and (>1)-1, it changes those from definite no Perils to a 1/6 chance of Perils. Now, the lower of those scores (your 1-2’s and suchlike) are probably not going to get rerolled, and I’ve not done complicated mathhammer in a while, buuut my gut’s telling me that’s actually a marginal increase in danger.

Of course, for this to make a difference, this extremely squishy support character has to get within 24” of Zoanthropes and the likely accompanying tidal wave of Genestealers

Chapter approved does not have the beta trial rules in it because they are just that, beta rules not official. However they still applu. most tourneys use the beta rules anyways so yes, no t1 deep striking still.

I always take my disloyal 32 demonettes with my black legion force, i take 3x10 demonettes and 2 heralds. Thats now a flat 300 pts. Most times my opponent will shoot something at the demonettes but my chaos side has so much threat saturation that they cant focus on all 3 squads t1. And with demonettes moving 7+d6 with advance, then the herald giving them additional advance and charge, thats a possible (definitely not probable) charge depending on the opponent. If you want a better chance take seekers of slaanesh and a herald on steed, that will get there.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'd like to see what type of lists people are running for a Slaanesh daemon force. I'm hearing things like "this unit is putting out X attacks with re-rolls!" and my first thought is "okay how is your army of t3 and t4 5++ models making it into combat without at least 50% losses on every unit".

I wonder if triple KoS is viable with their points reductions.

I played last night and the difference CA made for my mono-Slaanesh force was beyond noticeable. I could fit so much stuff in, it was insane. I think pre-CA that was a valid question, because we had so little stuff and it was so fragile. I ran a fairly non-optimized list and had so much target saturation it was impossible for things to not get into contact with minimal losses. Sure stuff died, just like before CA. but I had so much more behind it that I didn't care now. Two notes before my list 1) It's 1750 and 2) I won, but it was a brutal game. It seemed much more balanced with our points as I have played against this guys DW before and it rocked me because I had so much less stuff.

My list was essentialy -


Before CA there is no way I would fit those Keepers in, nor a good chunk of the Daemonettes and Chariots. And that is a 1750 list. 2k I could add way more still.

My DW buddy had 2 flyers I couldn't do much about and it was with a hammer and anvil deployment. I still had units get across the board untouched. I simply had too much board saturation for him to get everything. Especially with half my army moving an average of 15". The Chariots are T5 as well. The only thing that saved his ass was the hellfire rounds being able to chew threw my chariots and KoS (though I did win).

If I had the infernal enrapturess I could have slapped those flyers a bit more, with the combination of smite and the DP I may have been able to actually do something about them instead of ignoring them for 4+ turns until I had enough and tore one from the sky in melee. I would absolutely drop the seekers for multiples of her.

Also I learned two new things: 1) The new CA missions benefit us greatly. It isn't about killing anymore. My saturation secured objectives and without sudden death I won on points EASILY. He castled too much and it was a downfall, he was forced to come out to meet me. Objectives being on the ground floor and no sudden death, along with being a more objective focused missions really helps us win games imo. and 2) From what I can tell, our chariots can go up levels in ruins. They are not included in the BRB or the FAQ update. I did not get to use it but it has hilarious potential.

*EDIT* Chariots are included in the rule in an update in CA apparently? You think you find something new... lol.

Speaking of the chariots, can someone explain to me how you attack with it in melee?

The description says that it has an exalted alluress with piercing claws, two steeds of slaanesh with lashing tongues and two seekers with piercing claws and lashes of torment.

That's fine, but there's only a single unit profile which is the Hellflayer itself, with 5 attacks at strength 4. Do you divy those 5 attacks up between all the models, or is it 5 attacks from the alluress and 5 attacks each from the two seekers?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
An utter non-statement without details or context.

Well. Orks can get into combat with slower softer more expensive infantry. How on earth you couldn't? Player skill?

Orks move less, they die way more easily and there's 16% less models. So if orks make it into combat(which they can do) logically enough slaanesh daemons do it faster, having lost less # of models and having had more models to begin with. How they compare in combat after that is another thing. But in terms of getting it into combat slaanesh has it easy compared to orks.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Speaking of the chariots, can someone explain to me how you attack with it in melee?

The description says that it has an exalted alluress with piercing claws, two steeds of slaanesh with lashing tongues and two seekers with piercing claws and lashes of torment.

That's fine, but there's only a single unit profile which is the Hellflayer itself, with 5 attacks at strength 4. Do you divy those 5 attacks up between all the models, or is it 5 attacks from the alluress and 5 attacks each from the two seekers?

I can do that. It goes in steps, though it all fights at once as a unit. First you do the 5 attacks with the Daemonettes/Allures on the chariot, then you can choose between the axle or the seekers. It doesn't really matter. So it's 5 from the alluress, D6 from the axle, then 4 from the Seekers is how I normally do it.

Which is how the Exalted chariot gets 16 attacks. 8 for the daemonettes/Alluress, 8 for the Seekers.

Nurgle players, how did your Daemonic Icons work for you? Do you upgrade every Plaguebearer unit to have Plague banner?

 tokugawa wrote:
Nurgle players, how did your Daemonic Icons work for you? Do you upgrade every Plaguebearer unit to have Plague banner?

Oh, no, no chance. Most of the time I take small units for home objective screening that don’t even get the basic upgrades. Sometimes, I’ll take a medium sized horde for a midfield tarpit that get the upgrades just to be more mobile and to frustrate my opponent should I win a morale check. And on rare occasions I’ll invest 1CP to give a unit a one-off damage booster because it’s a massive horde unit that Epidemius will boost after he’s been charged up by Obliterators, Defilers, Myphitic Blight-Haulers, and Daemon Princes, and will hopefully wipe the plate in the late game.


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Banner of Blood is essential on any Bloodletters uni that’s not just a Troops tax space-filler, and when I get my Seekers expanded to fifteen then Rapturous Standard will be a must-have.

My Daemonettes by and large make it into combat (mostly) unmolested because my Chariots, Fiends and Seekers make a headlong, dash at the enemy lines, clear chaff and then die. Daemonettes form the second wave.

Also games I play use the recommended amount of terrain, so cover isn't hard to find for 25mm bases after they DS/while they're on their way.

My 2K list was, pre CA-2018

Six Heralds, three on foot, two on Steeds, one on a Seeker Chariot
Six Fiends
60 Daemonettes
Eighteen Seekers
3 Hellflayers
2 Seeker Chariots

Now I get to squeeze in a KoS who gets Celerity of Slaanesh and joins the headlong charge.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It was introduced as beta rules in The Big FAQ, but it hasn't been instated as official rules yet.

I don't know how tournaments deal with beta rules, though.

major tournaments 99% of times apply beta rules


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 Excommunicatus wrote:
My Daemonettes by and large make it into combat (mostly) unmolested because my Chariots, Fiends and Seekers make a headlong, dash at the enemy lines, clear chaff and then die. Daemonettes form the second wave.

Also games I play use the recommended amount of terrain, so cover isn't hard to find for 25mm bases after they DS/while they're on their way.

My 2K list was, pre CA-2018

Six Heralds, three on foot, two on Steeds, one on a Seeker Chariot
Six Fiends
60 Daemonettes
Eighteen Seekers
3 Hellflayers
2 Seeker Chariots

Now I get to squeeze in a KoS who gets Celerity of Slaanesh and joins the headlong charge.

i would go for extra 20 demonettes, anyway i like ur list i was always a slaanes lover pity it is not same level as nurgle at least in competitive enviroment where i usually play.

tneva82 wrote:
Well. Orks can get into combat with slower softer more expensive infantry. How on earth you couldn't? Player skill?

Orks move less, they die way more easily and there's 16% less models. So if orks make it into combat(which they can do) logically enough slaanesh daemons do it faster, having lost less # of models and having had more models to begin with. How they compare in combat after that is another thing. But in terms of getting it into combat slaanesh has it easy compared to orks.

You just repeated what you already said, but worded slightly differently, lol.

Like I don't know why you think I care about ork analogies. I don't play orks, this isn't an orks tactics thread- it's a daemons tactics thread. Make your point using daemon units and rules.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
I can do that. It goes in steps, though it all fights at once as a unit. First you do the 5 attacks with the Daemonettes/Allures on the chariot, then you can choose between the axle or the seekers. It doesn't really matter. So it's 5 from the alluress, D6 from the axle, then 4 from the Seekers is how I normally do it.

Which is how the Exalted chariot gets 16 attacks. 8 for the daemonettes/Alluress, 8 for the Seekers.

Gotcha, thank you. Looking at your list, how do you feel about feinds? At 42ppm and with the points reductions to the chariots you'd probably have enough space for two units if you maybe dropped a seeker unit.

So what changed for Horrors in CA? I dont notice anything.

 vaklor4 wrote:
So what changed for Horrors in CA? I dont notice anything.

I’m pretty certain it’s for people whose only datasheet for them is the one that came in the kit or their Heretic Astartes book, and are either Summoning them or playing open play.

How have peoples armies been testing since chapter approved not had a chance to test my own yet.

Dunno yet but I plan to find out. Based on the prior coversation I'm going to try out a list next weekend that's similar to Armchair's, but at 1500.

Herald of Slaanesh
Masque
10xDaemonettes - Instrument
10xDaemonettes - Instrument
10xDaemonettes - Instrument
Hellflayer
Hellflayer
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh - Wings, Malefic Talons
Keeper of Secrets
Keeper of Secrets
10xDaemonettes - Instrument
10xDaemonettes - Instrument
10xDaemonettes - Instrument
Seeker Chariot
Seeker Chariot
Exalted Seeker Chariot

Seems like a fun rushdown list. Buuuut, I don't know about the balance of daemonettes to chariots. I wonder if at 1500 I might be better off sacrificing a daemonette squad for another chariot or maybe some fiends.

I'd lose out on double battalion though.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Gotcha, thank you. Looking at your list, how do you feel about feinds? At 42ppm and with the points reductions to the chariots you'd probably have enough space for two units if you maybe dropped a seeker unit.

I am very tempted to take a squad or two of them in replacement for the Seekers. I am not a big fan of the Seekers but use them to tie up units in combat/kill chaff. I think the Fiends can do just as well (even better really) at that job. Plus you get some nice bonus abilities from them.

I will say my Seekers performed quite well in my last game. Nothing spectacular but they did the job mentioned above quite well, by the end of the game they had literally done a lap around the entire board and then some.

I am also tempted to just spam the chariots, mostly because it would look so cool on the table.

I’m planning on chariot spam as well. Currently I have eight, planning on 9 plus Heralds on chariots as well for a total of 11.

Three of each, two Heralds?

FWIW, if I was building my mounted Heralds again today, knowing they were Index-Only, I probably wouldn't bother.

They're comparatively pricey and only get Piercing, not Ravaging, Claws (only D1) and can't take the Claws stratagem.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Three of each, two Heralds?

FWIW, if I was building my mounted Heralds again today, knowing they were Index-Only, I probably wouldn't bother.

They're comparatively pricey and only get Piercing, not Ravaging, Claws (only D1) and can't take the Claws stratagem.

Either that or alternatively having two available to summon, getting around the rule of 3, so having 11 chariots on the field for a whopping 700pts. Plus keepers, harp herald, DP, seekers and daemonettes. Oddly enough, no fiends.

I've been testing the following:

Battalion #1: Tzeentch
LoC w/ impossible robe
Fateweaver
3x10 brimstones

Battalion #2: Khorne
Skarbrand
Normal bloodthrister
Bloodthirster with big axe with armor of scorn
3x20 man bloodletter bombs

Worked pretty well so far...

4 big monsters that fly throws off target priority and 3 teleporting bombs w/ skarbrand support is pretty strong.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Three of each, two Heralds?

FWIW, if I was building my mounted Heralds again today, knowing they were Index-Only, I probably wouldn't bother.

They're comparatively pricey and only get Piercing, not Ravaging, Claws (only D1) and can't take the Claws stratagem.

Either that or alternatively having two available to summon, getting around the rule of 3, so having 11 chariots on the field for a whopping 700pts. Plus keepers, harp herald, DP, seekers and daemonettes. Oddly enough, no fiends.

This should be super easy with a harp lady or two. All the chariots are only 5PL. You'd have to roll a 1 to fail the summoning.

The basic seeker chariots are PL3, aren’t they?

 timetowaste85 wrote:
The basic seeker chariots are PL3, aren’t they?

Battlescribe says 4. So now it's literally impossible to fail whether it's 3 or 4 lol.

*edit* I double checked the Codex and BS is right. The Exalted and Hellflayer are 5, the Seeker Chariot is 4.

Do we know what the Harp Herald costs? If it’s 70, I’m dancing an Irish Jig.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Do we know what the Harp Herald costs? If it’s 70, I’m dancing an Irish Jig.

80 pts.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m planning on chariot spam as well. Currently I have eight, planning on 9 plus Heralds on chariots as well for a total of 11.

I have been using chariots a lot since 8th edition started and while they are great, I found they give off diminishing returns if the board has even a decent amount of terrain. They have big bases, not to mention all the spiky, pokey, tonguey bits that extend well beyond the base, and so I have found that any more than 3 tends to get in each others way, especially if you have anything else big competing for front line space. It is also worth keeping in mind that any reasonable amount a elevated terrain essentially hard counters the chariots in to very flamboyant objective holders.

On a side note, I am seeing a lot of lists here referencing seekers and hellflayers, but really I have found exalted chariots to just be completely dominating in terms of what you get for your points cost. The exalted gets a total of 16 attacks compared to the 9 of the seeker, those attacks are coming in at ws 2+ instead of 3+ (until it goes down a level from wounds, but at that point the seeker is dead anyway), and it has twice as many wounds for only 30 points more. The hellflayer's axle is nice, but at 6 wounds, it is just so easy to pop I would almost always rather just spend the extra 10 points for the extra 6 wounds. I have been playing with trying some hellflayers with my exalted chariots, but my concern is they will start tripping over each other.

That said, the new points cost makes all the chariots much more attractive than they were. I think my only real source of salt in post-CA 40k is that heralds on chariots still do not have an updated points cost or profile.

 Sersi wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Do we know what the Harp Herald costs? If it’s 70, I’m dancing an Irish Jig.

80 pts.

Do you have a source for this? 80 Points sounds pretty reasonable for a shooty herald.

I looked, and it seems she’s PL4: which means 80 points maximum. I think that’s where he got the number he gave me. And if she’s 80, I’ll drop a single seeker and only run 14. Gives me 105 summoning points for either additional chariots or fiends, 3 monsters, 9 chariots, 60 daemonettes, 14 seekers, one new herald and one regular herald in a 2k list. Hits in three waves, and everything is FAST.

I need to convince some of the local Slaanesh players to bring some of these lists you guys are making here. Looks like fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

urzaplanewalker wrote:
I've been testing the following:

Battalion #1: Tzeentch
LoC w/ impossible robe
Fateweaver
3x10 brimstones

Battalion #2: Khorne
Skarbrand
Normal bloodthrister
Bloodthirster with big axe with armor of scorn
3x20 man bloodletter bombs

Worked pretty well so far...

4 big monsters that fly throws off target priority and 3 teleporting bombs w/ skarbrand support is pretty strong.

This is also sweet. The big points reductions on all the big monsters seem made for lists like this.

Tighten the Noose: 1 CP

Use this stratagem at the end of your first, second, and/or third Movement phase. The unit entering the battlefield this turn (see entering the fray) can be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge.

Does this stratagem make Daemonette bomb a thing ?

 tokugawa wrote:
Nurgle players, how did your Daemonic Icons work for you? Do you upgrade every Plaguebearer unit to have Plague banner?

always no sense bring less than 30 Pb's so yes upgrade to icon and instrument


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rydria wrote:

Tighten the Noose: 1 CP

Use this stratagem at the end of your first, second, and/or third Movement phase. The unit entering the battlefield this turn (see entering the fray) can be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge.

Does this stratagem make Daemonette bomb a thing ?

uhmmmm i miss where i found those stratagems