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Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

If, after 30 years of 40K, you’re surprised/shocked/offended that GW continue to release more Marine kits than kits for other factions, well... I don’t know what to tell you. Prepare to be disappointed?

The most popular games/factions that pay their staff’s wages and the shareholders’ dividends get the most stuff.

More on topic than the salt-piles, it does suck that my DA Supplement will be part of a more expensive book, but GW have found a new way to force a higher purchase price, yayyy. And the rules are bound to be lacklustre compared to IH/etc. So be it. :-/

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




 Togusa wrote:
Picked up Faith and Fury last night, took about 45 minutes to read cover to cover and...

Big surprise! It's mostly Marine garbage.

Are they ever going to release anything over value for non-marine armies? Or is it just going to continue to be a marine-spank fest?

How many codexes have Marine based armies gotten this year? Hmmm?

How many Xenos Codexes?

Furthermore, how many of the Xenos rules releases have even been worth their weight in salt? Meanwhile Marines once again get to be the most absolutely broken factions, able to do things that others can't for literally no reason at all.

Isn't it cool how CSM Tanks now also get to have Chapt-oh, well. Nevermind on that.

Isn't it so cool and healthy for the game?!



Off top of my head 1 xenos codex and 1 marine codex this year? Gsc, then codex marines. I'm discounting chaos marines as it's an expanded reprint rather than a new book.

Gsc shook up the meta on release as much as marines have, they just didn't destroy win rates in the same way. Marines had a very brief period of being in the sun at the start of the edition, but on the whole sucked as a mono faction until this book.

Have there been too many marine releases? Maybe, have they been to strong? Definitely. Is it as bad as you made out? Not really.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/08 10:37:47


 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

 bullyboy wrote:
They also need the unit to teleport. It could be based on Gravis armour, but would need additional elements to allow this to happen.

So we don't think there may be a surprise box that releases first part of January (while sisters starts to arrive end of Jan)? Not sure if "new" marines would go over well right now, but there is an air of mystery to this (perfectly fitting for DA). The consistent rumour was Orks vs Wolves, which we now know is wrong (yet the source had got so much right prior), so what have GW been hiding to suddenly put this release out at the beginning of the year, and giving a Xmas day teaser to start it off?

I'm going to say nothing of note, the entire Psychic Awakenign has been a case of over promise and under deliver.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 An Actual Englishman wrote:


It would be a financial mistake long term to release these models straight after Xmas in my opinion, the general public perception I have seen online, in various stores and hobby clubs, is that people (even Marine players) are sick of the constant marine releases now and want a break.
.



I agree TBH, as a Marine player I'm still painting the current release wave, I'd not really appreciate a new gravis line right now, (also I'm going to be working on sisters when they release, fufilling an oooold promise I made to myself) and I doubt I'd be alone. GW'd be best off waiting awhile for marine releases. the only marine stuff for 2020 I'd like to see is some plastic characters. and that's more a desire to see ANY model old eneugh to drink replaced
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 JohnnyHell wrote:
The most popular games/factions that pay their staff’s wages and the shareholders’ dividends get the most stuff.

- Don't release any Sister stuff despite constant demand, focusing on more marines.
- Start listening to the constant demand, and release Sister box, but only a tiny number compared to demand, because production lines are busy making more marines.
- "Space marines are what makes us money we should do more of them instead of other factions"

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I suspect people have been complaining about people complaining for almost as long.
 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Dudeface wrote:

Gsc shook up the meta on release as much as marines have, they just didn't destroy win rates in the same way. Marines had a very brief period of being in the sun at the start of the edition, but on the whole sucked as a mono faction until this book.

Have there been too many marine releases? Maybe, have they been to strong? Definitely. Is it as bad as you made out? Not really.


Sucking as mono faction isn't much of a surprise in a game where you soup or you suck. Only numarines got chance of not sucking mono and now sisters got lot weaker version

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2020/02/24/tneva82-winter-war-tournament-report/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







These books are basically monetised patchnotes and in some cases pay to win DLC.

Working Men of All Countries, Unite!
 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

JSG wrote:
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
The most popular games/factions that pay their staff’s wages and the shareholders’ dividends get the most stuff.

- Don't release any Sister stuff despite constant demand, focusing on more marines.
- Start listening to the constant demand, and release Sister box, but only a tiny number compared to demand, because production lines are busy making more marines.
- "Space marines are what makes us money we should do more of them instead of other factions"


If you doubt that marines are an inherently more popular concept you're basically a flat earther tbh.


Indeed.

Also, GW didn't listen to random forum whining. They did an enormous survey.

And the Sisters' release hasn't in any way changed the amount of focus on Marines. The box was limited edition. You're ascribing production issues as a reason with no basis, other than a hypothesis that fits your narrative. For all we know they made exactly as many as they intended. Remember, they hate having to annualise profits so could just as easily have printed a number of boxes that won't stretch them next year in trying to match sales. See? We can all speculate with no info. I didn't present mine as fact though.

Sisters are getting a full, multi-kit release next year. Space Marines, being their bread and butter for 30 years now, will keep getting updates via books and models long after that release is done and dusted. After release the Sisters will get far less. Speculation again, but safe speculation. The poster boys are so because they're popular, and sell. There are plenty of threads lamenting this in General Discussion if anyone needs, so that this thread can stay on N&R.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




tneva82 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

Gsc shook up the meta on release as much as marines have, they just didn't destroy win rates in the same way. Marines had a very brief period of being in the sun at the start of the edition, but on the whole sucked as a mono faction until this book.

Have there been too many marine releases? Maybe, have they been to strong? Definitely. Is it as bad as you made out? Not really.


Sucking as mono faction isn't much of a surprise in a game where you soup or you suck. Only numarines got chance of not sucking mono and now sisters got lot weaker version


That doesn't make it excusable behaviour however, the standard response shouldn't be "lol soup or die". If it helps I'll rephrase that codex marines had 1 build with a G-man ball for a short time and weren't used otherwise.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 JohnnyHell wrote:
Also, GW didn't listen to random forum whining. They did an enormous survey.

Which, surprise, said exactly the same thing!!!

 JohnnyHell wrote:
And the Sisters' release hasn't in any way changed the amount of focus on Marines.

Yes, that was my point.
“but only a tiny number compared to demand, because production lines are busy making more marines.”
That's exactly my point!

 JohnnyHell wrote:
After release the Sisters will get far less.

Yes, and so they won't make as much money, and GW will use that to explain why they do more marines. You can't sell what you don't make.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I suspect people have been complaining about people complaining for almost as long.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

"Muscly super soldier in power armour" is a generic cliché for a reason. "Battle nun in power armour" is not.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
"Muscly super soldier in power armour" is a generic cliché for a reason.

So is “all organic space alien bug”. Yet you don't see GW giving tyranids the same kind of support as marines get, amirite?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I suspect people have been complaining about people complaining for almost as long.
 
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

- Start listening to the constant demand, and release Sister box, but only a tiny number compared to demand, because production lines are busy making more marines.


I'm keen to know more about the market research you've done that can accurately predict demand better than GWs own survey and sales history.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





GW's market research is and has always been very efficient lol.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I suspect people have been complaining about people complaining for almost as long.
 
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon








You didn't answer the question. It's very easy to point out they underestimated demand after the fact. What specific figures do you have to show they should have planned for more >12 months ago?

Right now your complaint comes across as 'how dare GW not be able to predict the future', which isn't exactly the strongest argument.
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
And the Sisters' release hasn't in any way changed the amount of focus on Marines.

Yes, that was my point.
“but only a tiny number compared to demand, because production lines are busy making more marines.”
That's exactly my point!


That was your hypothesis, not point. You've strapped reasoning onto something without any actual knowledge of whether it's true. That's not a point, it's postulation. I covered that.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
After release the Sisters will get far less.

Yes, and so they won't make as much money, and GW will use that to explain why they do more marines. You can't sell what you don't make.


The idea Marines somehow aren't popular in their own right is as fallacious as it is baffling. There's a million threads in General Discussion on that 'topic' should you need them... shall we get this one back on discussing PA?

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Everyone might have asked for Sisters in plastic, but how can you guarantee that said people will actually pick up said Sisters in plastic?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Imateria wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
They also need the unit to teleport. It could be based on Gravis armour, but would need additional elements to allow this to happen.

So we don't think there may be a surprise box that releases first part of January (while sisters starts to arrive end of Jan)? Not sure if "new" marines would go over well right now, but there is an air of mystery to this (perfectly fitting for DA). The consistent rumour was Orks vs Wolves, which we now know is wrong (yet the source had got so much right prior), so what have GW been hiding to suddenly put this release out at the beginning of the year, and giving a Xmas day teaser to start it off?

I'm going to say nothing of note, the entire Psychic Awakenign has been a case of over promise and under deliver.


I agree, the books have in no way delivered anything universe shattering as promised. It's all just more of the same.

I'm also not thrilled that DA are in the next book as I was hoping GW would really advance their timeline in conjunction with what we have been told about the escape of Luther, the gathering of the fallen near legion strength and their involvement on Vigilus. However, the fact that they've just been thrown in the mix right now, immediately before a full Sisters release and 5th PA book, it's going to be a whimper.

probably will be the same for the Tau book, and maybe the Wolves vs Orks will be the "big" PA story with Ghazkull.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Everyone might have asked for Sisters in plastic, but how can you guarantee that said people will actually pick up said Sisters in plastic?

Considering that in all of GW's webstores in the Europe the SoB boxes were sold out under a minute, it is pretty safe to say that people are buying them.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 xttz wrote:
It's very easy to point out they underestimated demand after the fact. What specific figures do you have to show they should have planned for more >12 months ago?

Right now your complaint comes across as 'how dare GW not be able to predict the future', which isn't exactly the strongest argument.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
The most popular games/factions that pay their staff’s wages and the shareholders’ dividends get the most stuff.

- Don't release any Sister stuff despite constant demand, focusing on more marines.
- Start listening to the constant demand, and release Sister box, but only a tiny number compared to demand, because production lines are busy making more marines.
- "Space marines are what makes us money we should do more of them instead of other factions"



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
That was your hypothesis, not point. You've strapped reasoning onto something without any actual knowledge of whether it's true. That's not a point, it's postulation.

You literally stated it as if it was a fact. I mean, I quoted you.
 JohnnyHell wrote:
The idea Marines somehow aren't popular in their own right is as fallacious as it is baffling.

Whatever you say dude. I mean, if GW never release a similar amount of stuff for other factions, you can just parrot this as long as you want with no backing evidence and be as condescending about it as you want, how convenient is that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/08 16:06:24


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I suspect people have been complaining about people complaining for almost as long.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Crimson wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Everyone might have asked for Sisters in plastic, but how can you guarantee that said people will actually pick up said Sisters in plastic?

Considering that in all of GW's webstores in the Europe the SoB boxes were sold out under a minute, it is pretty safe to say that people are buying them.

Sold out of how many boxes though?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Everyone might have asked for Sisters in plastic, but how can you guarantee that said people will actually pick up said Sisters in plastic?


Crimson wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Everyone might have asked for Sisters in plastic, but how can you guarantee that said people will actually pick up said Sisters in plastic?

Considering that in all of GW's webstores in the Europe the SoB boxes were sold out under a minute, it is pretty safe to say that people are buying them.



Yet my flgs had 10ish or so in stock for a week, so did they make too many....or too few?
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sold out of how many boxes though?

All of them Slayer-Fan. All of them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I suspect people have been complaining about people complaining for almost as long.
 
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






As much as I love the discussion around whether Marine popularity is a consequence of GWs repeated, insistent focus or whether it is inherent this isn't the topic for it.

Please stop. A mod has already warned everyone like 2 pages back.
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 bullyboy wrote:
 Imateria wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
They also need the unit to teleport. It could be based on Gravis armour, but would need additional elements to allow this to happen.

So we don't think there may be a surprise box that releases first part of January (while sisters starts to arrive end of Jan)? Not sure if "new" marines would go over well right now, but there is an air of mystery to this (perfectly fitting for DA). The consistent rumour was Orks vs Wolves, which we now know is wrong (yet the source had got so much right prior), so what have GW been hiding to suddenly put this release out at the beginning of the year, and giving a Xmas day teaser to start it off?

I'm going to say nothing of note, the entire Psychic Awakenign has been a case of over promise and under deliver.


I agree, the books have in no way delivered anything universe shattering as promised. It's all just more of the same.

I'm also not thrilled that DA are in the next book as I was hoping GW would really advance their timeline in conjunction with what we have been told about the escape of Luther, the gathering of the fallen near legion strength and their involvement on Vigilus. However, the fact that they've just been thrown in the mix right now, immediately before a full Sisters release and 5th PA book, it's going to be a whimper.

probably will be the same for the Tau book, and maybe the Wolves vs Orks will be the "big" PA story with Ghazkull.


I'm secretly hoping they don't make Azrael Primaris, and instead make a new guy, but it seems only logical...

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Everyone might have asked for Sisters in plastic, but how can you guarantee that said people will actually pick up said Sisters in plastic?

Considering that in all of GW's webstores in the Europe the SoB boxes were sold out under a minute, it is pretty safe to say that people are buying them.

Sold out of how many boxes though?

That we do not know. like we do not know with any of GW's releases. But there is no reason to assume that this was massively smaller number of boxes than their boxed set releases usually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
As much as I love the discussion around whether Marine popularity is a consequence of GWs repeated, insistent focus or whether it is inherent this isn't the topic for it.

Please stop. A mod has already warned everyone like 2 pages back.

Now you are concerned of this!?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/08 17:17:24


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





the sister's box was a test to see who'd put their money where their mouths where, the fact that it sold out so fast means GW will, hopefully have a larger production run of the multipart kits

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sold out of how many boxes though?

All of them Slayer-Fan. All of them.

That doesn't really answer the question.

The truth is, we can't know how well they really sold. Either they had like 20 (exaggeration) and sold out or had like 5000 (exaggeration) and sold out.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




BrianDavion wrote:
the sister's box was a test to see who'd put their money where their mouths where, the fact that it sold out so fast means GW will, hopefully have a larger production run of the multipart kits


Eh. The box and the multipart kits are honestly too close together to meaningfully influence the size of the production run, especially given the new releases this month.

Instead I think its more they hit the limits of their production with the limited box, especially with getting the new AoS army out at functionally the same time.


Hopefully, with the new facilities, we'll finally see a jump in production next year, and fewer book+one model 'releases.' There's still a bunch of 'temporarily out of stock' boxes they need to get back into circulation as well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/08 18:37:06


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Crimson wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Everyone might have asked for Sisters in plastic, but how can you guarantee that said people will actually pick up said Sisters in plastic?

Considering that in all of GW's webstores in the Europe the SoB boxes were sold out under a minute, it is pretty safe to say that people are buying them.

Sold out of how many boxes though?

That we do not know. like we do not know with any of GW's releases. But there is no reason to assume that this was massively smaller number of boxes than their boxed set releases usually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
As much as I love the discussion around whether Marine popularity is a consequence of GWs repeated, insistent focus or whether it is inherent this isn't the topic for it.

Please stop. A mod has already warned everyone like 2 pages back.

Now you are concerned of this!?


I'm not saying it couldn't have been popular, I'm just saying we have no way to determine everyone demanding plastic Sisters will have actually made the investment to buy them.

Personally I'm only planning to get a box here and there for weapons bitz and potentially casualties to create for a couple of my dudes on their bases. I could've just went with Guard but I figured I'd thank GW for kinda listening regarding model releases.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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