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Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – A Brief History of Mark VI Power Armour
   
Made in us
Araqiel






 Albertorius wrote:
 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Ugh, these reactions, advanced reactions, special reactions, overreactions are just Stratagems by another name aren't they...


They can be shut down by pinning a unit. So it's possible to deal with them.


That's not the problem, here.


What then is the problem?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Albertorius wrote:
 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Ugh, these reactions, advanced reactions, special reactions, overreactions are just Stratagems by another name aren't they...


They can be shut down by pinning a unit. So it's possible to deal with them.


That's not the problem, here.

The problem is that you can't do whatever you want with no consequences?
   
Made in gb
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator




U.K.

 Snrub wrote:
cpugeek13 wrote:
Does anyone know what the standard number of models for a 30K army is? I’ve heard that it is more than 40k, and mostly consists of tactical marines. I stopped playing 40k a few years ago, but 30k has (cautiously) piqued my interest. It seems like the larger troop boxes would be inline with larger armies overall.
Eh it can depend entirely on what sort of list you want to run. It's very easy to get massive footslogger lists in 30k which can run near 100 infantry in a 2k list. But then if you craft a somewhat sensible list, then you're likely to find you'll have a number of infantry to a similar sized 40k game, as a lot of the points end up being sunk in expensive tanks/flyers/primarchs.

I imagine it would depend somewhat on the local meta somewhat too. In my area at any rate, unless playing ZM which normally runs 750-1250 points, games tend to start around the 2-2.5k points mark and average out at about 3-3.5k points. Then on top of that if you're playing to a specific Rite of War that will likely influence what you take. Pride of the Legion lists tend to run 20-30 terminators or may 40ish power armoured vets. Armour lists will be lower troops, maybe 20ish, but more tanks. One local guy like to cram in 6 fire raptors and feth all else into a list. (shockingly, people don't like playing him too much. )



Is it playable at 1000-1500 though?

3 SPRUUUUUEESSSS!!!!
JWBS wrote:

I'm not going to re-read the lunacy that is the last few pages of this thread, but I'd be very surprised if anyone actually said that. Even that one guy banging on about how relatively difficult it might be for an Inquisitor to acquire power armour, I don't think even that guy said that.
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





The EC being big on mk6 makes sense. They would love better sensors and lighter weight. Also alot of the og emperors children art (the classic 4 chaos marines) were in mk 6, could also be the base they use for 40k (lucius I believe is in partial mk6, with a mk4 backpack, and in 40k he adds faces and an anvilus backpack).

Eidolon also worked close with death guard, could see them splitting loot that he takes mk6 and morty the older marks.



Might point to
Death guard=mk2/3
TS= mk4
W= mk 5
EC=mk6

For the base of their 40k designs when WE and EC come out

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/17 15:42:29


 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Is it playable at 1000-1500 though?
Yes, but some people find it limiting (and the EoH Podcast Centurion rules are a good option at lower points).
   
Made in gb
Terrifying Wraith




EviscerationPlague wrote:

The problem is that you can't do whatever you want with no consequences?


The problem from my POV is that I don't like play interruptions and extra crap to remember that isn't innate to the unit's rules. If your angle is that not liking certain design choices in games makes me some kind of child we're gonna have trouble reaching common ground I fear
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Ugh, these reactions, advanced reactions, special reactions, overreactions are just Stratagems by another name aren't they...


They can be shut down by pinning a unit. So it's possible to deal with them.


That's not the problem, here.

The problem is that you can't do whatever you want with no consequences?


If that's what you get from that, it says more about you than about anything else.

As for me, I prefer rules that work the same for everyone. Reactions, IGOUGO or whatever else is nice and dandy, as long as every kid gets to play with all the toys.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/17 15:50:55


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mothman wrote:


Might point to
Death guard=mk2/3
TS= mk4
W= mk 5
EC=mk6


Thats also what the "History of Armours" article from WD #469 tells us.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/17 15:51:04


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Albertorius wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Billicus wrote:
Ugh, these reactions, advanced reactions, special reactions, overreactions are just Stratagems by another name aren't they...


They can be shut down by pinning a unit. So it's possible to deal with them.


That's not the problem, here.

The problem is that you can't do whatever you want with no consequences?


If that's what you get from that, it says more about you than about anything else.

As for me, I prefer rules that work the same for everyone. Reactions, IGOUGO or whatever else is nice and dandy, as long as every kid gets to play with all the toys.


Well lucky you. Everybody gets to use reactions.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






tneva82 wrote:
Well lucky you. Everybody gets to use reactions.

Unlucky me, nobody gets to use the same. Which is the part about "all the kids playing with all the rules".

Nobody but IFs getting to launch preemptive charges on the opponent's movement phase is not exactly that, for example. Because... reasons.

And that's not even taking into account that not all legions get to be special enough to get bespoke reactions... Iron Warriors say Hi.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/17 16:08:46


 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Albertorius wrote:

Unlucky me, nobody gets to use the same. Which is the part about "all the kids playing with all the rules".

Nobody but IFs getting to launch preemptive charges on the opponent's movement phase is not exactly that, for example. Because... reasons.

And that's not even taking into account that not all legions get to be special enough to get bespoke reactions... Iron Warriors say Hi.

You do realise these aren't full rules previews right? Or did you think that Dark Angels just don't get a Legion trait because it wasn't in their preview? Each Legion getting its own reaction is just like each Legion getting its own unique wargear, rules, and units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/17 16:17:49


 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Gert wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:

Unlucky me, nobody gets to use the same. Which is the part about "all the kids playing with all the rules".

Nobody but IFs getting to launch preemptive charges on the opponent's movement phase is not exactly that, for example. Because... reasons.

And that's not even taking into account that not all legions get to be special enough to get bespoke reactions... Iron Warriors say Hi.

You do realise these aren't full rules previews right? Or did you think that Dark Angels just don't get a Legion trait because it wasn't in their preview? Each Legion getting its own reaction is just like each Legion getting its own unique wargear, rules, and units.


Do you realize that what I'm saying is that I don't like a proliferation of special reactions outside of the general rules? Also, that's how stratagems started, too, and look how it's going.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/17 16:19:49


 
   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





Every legion has 6 base reactions that are generic to all forces (2 different ones per phase) and 1 unique reaction that can be used once per battle

You can use one reaction per phase on a single unit. Some warlord traits or wargear allow and additional one. Reactions are capped at 3 per phase.

Also, ironically the iron warrior unique reaction is VERY good.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/17 16:28:16


 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Albertorius wrote:
Do you realize that what I'm saying is that I don't like a proliferation of special reactions outside of the general rules? Also, that's how stratagems started, too, and look how it's going.

Careful, you might slip on that slope you've made.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Albertorius wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well lucky you. Everybody gets to use reactions.

Unlucky me, nobody gets to use the same. Which is the part about "all the kids playing with all the rules".

Nobody but IFs getting to launch preemptive charges on the opponent's movement phase is not exactly that, for example. Because... reasons.

And that's not even taking into account that not all legions get to be special enough to get bespoke reactions... Iron Warriors say Hi.


Ah so on 40k side marines should have resurection protocols, sisters should obviously be able to use volcano cannons etc?

Angron should obviously be usable by all legions. And necrons. And tyranids.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/17 16:36:32


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Billicus wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:

The problem is that you can't do whatever you want with no consequences?


The problem from my POV is that I don't like play interruptions and extra crap to remember that isn't innate to the unit's rules. If your angle is that not liking certain design choices in games makes me some kind of child we're gonna have trouble reaching common ground I fear


Perhaps you should have said that, rather than making up 'special reactions' and 'over reactions' (ironic, that) and dragging Strats in.
Not liking interrupts and a lot of special rules is relatable, but what you posted (and what other folks globbed onto) wasn't.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/17 16:50:21


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






If the box indeed turns out to be 225€ (which I still doubt tbh), I would probably end up buying the box after all, and selling the terminators.

Any more than that however and I'm sticking to buying 20 beakies and a Spartan individually. Rest of the box isnt really must-have for me. The plastic contemptor only interests me if it can be kitbashed with the resin one, and there's no proof yet that this can be done easily. I want to keep the aquila-adorned resin chest piece, but if the plastics offer more poseability than the resin limbs, I'd be happy to mix the two.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/17 16:50:58


 
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






tneva82 wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well lucky you. Everybody gets to use reactions.

Unlucky me, nobody gets to use the same. Which is the part about "all the kids playing with all the rules".

Nobody but IFs getting to launch preemptive charges on the opponent's movement phase is not exactly that, for example. Because... reasons.

And that's not even taking into account that not all legions get to be special enough to get bespoke reactions... Iron Warriors say Hi.


Ah so on 40k side marines should have resurection protocols, sisters should obviously be able to use volcano cannons etc?

Angron should obviously be usable by all legions. And necrons. And tyranids.


Sure, man, that's exactly what I said, sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bobug wrote:
Every legion has 6 base reactions that are generic to all forces (2 different ones per phase) and 1 unique reaction that can be used once per battle.


True... for now. Stratagems were also few and far between at the start. Or Necromunda tactics cards.

But we all know that GW is always restrained and never go for the easy bucks, amirite?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/17 17:06:34


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





So when it comes to HH, how much do people accept armour conversions? Like, mixing and matching armour and/or converting it into something different?

I've heard the link drawn between HH players and historical gamers, and I know historical gamers often hate it if you make historically implausible forces.

Specifically, one thing I'm thinking of doing is keeping the beakie armour but removing the actual beakie heads and replacing it with something custom like this...



And then swapping out the studded shoulder pad for something like a Mk3 shoulder pad.

Would I get shouted out of the gaming club for that?
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Yeah and then you throw the shouter into the sun.
In all seriousness, HH peeps are much more likely to look at conversions with praise and warm fuzziness than scream you down because you put the wrong honour marking on your Tactical Marine. Even the ones who rage about Primaris then use Primaris to make conversions.
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Specifically, one thing I'm thinking of doing is keeping the beakie armour but removing the actual beakie heads and replacing it with something custom like this...

And then swapping out the studded shoulder pad for something like a Mk3 shoulder pad.

But, but, the beakie helm and the studded shoulder are the best parts... (T⌓T)

In any case, the armours can be customised even in the lore and often are, so it would be silly for anyone to give you hard time for doing so.
Though given some of the attitudes I've seen here, not totally inconceivable...


   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






 Albertorius wrote:
Bobug wrote:
Every legion has 6 base reactions that are generic to all forces (2 different ones per phase) and 1 unique reaction that can be used once per battle.


True... for now. Stratagems were also few and far between at the start.


Just to point out, this is not correct. The 8th ed rule book had a very limited selection of stratagems, but the first codex coming in after a month or so already had the pages of stratagems and set the tone for 40k ever since. Unless you for some strange reason believe that codices are not an integral part of the rules setup for 40k and the rule book plus indices are the true game, drowning players in stratagems has been there from the start.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
So when it comes to HH, how much do people accept armour conversions? Like, mixing and matching armour and/or converting it into something different?

I've heard the link drawn between HH players and historical gamers, and I know historical gamers often hate it if you make historically implausible forces.


I like to think that even the most engaged players know to put a "pseudo" in front of their feelings about the Horus Heresy as a historical game and not forget the long history in GW games of encouraging players to make their models their own through conversion.

But I'm old and grew up with that, so what do I know what kids do these days?

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in gb
Terrifying Wraith




Voss wrote:
Billicus wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:

The problem is that you can't do whatever you want with no consequences?


The problem from my POV is that I don't like play interruptions and extra crap to remember that isn't innate to the unit's rules. If your angle is that not liking certain design choices in games makes me some kind of child we're gonna have trouble reaching common ground I fear


Perhaps you should have said that, rather than making up 'special reactions' and 'over reactions' (ironic, that) and dragging Strats in.
Not liking interrupts and a lot of special rules is relatable, but what you posted (and what other folks globbed onto) wasn't.


Sorry, I was just trying to inject a little humour and hyperbole into my moan.
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

 Albertorius wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:

Unlucky me, nobody gets to use the same. Which is the part about "all the kids playing with all the rules".

Nobody but IFs getting to launch preemptive charges on the opponent's movement phase is not exactly that, for example. Because... reasons.

And that's not even taking into account that not all legions get to be special enough to get bespoke reactions... Iron Warriors say Hi.

You do realise these aren't full rules previews right? Or did you think that Dark Angels just don't get a Legion trait because it wasn't in their preview? Each Legion getting its own reaction is just like each Legion getting its own unique wargear, rules, and units.


Do you realize that what I'm saying is that I don't like a proliferation of special reactions outside of the general rules? Also, that's how stratagems started, too, and look how it's going.


Then don't play the game. It's that simple.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
So when it comes to HH, how much do people accept armour conversions? Like, mixing and matching armour and/or converting it into something different?


Just say it's Heresy armor.

If I get the box set, I'm going to be doing that for a majority of the infantry. Some Sons of Horus heads from Forgeworld, and other third party heads.

   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
So when it comes to HH, how much do people accept armour conversions? Like, mixing and matching armour and/or converting it into something different?

I've heard the link drawn between HH players and historical gamers, and I know historical gamers often hate it if you make historically implausible forces.

Specifically, one thing I'm thinking of doing is keeping the beakie armour but removing the actual beakie heads and replacing it with something custom like this...



And then swapping out the studded shoulder pad for something like a Mk3 shoulder pad.

Would I get shouted out of the gaming club for that?


given we know every l;egion has their own forges I think folks would be fine. Hell.. use those heads on Iron warriors mk VI and people'd proably think it's awesome

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s a helluva price if it’s true. Seems it’s from a reliable source who Valrak says is yet to be wrong.

I mean, it’s still a big old chunk of cash. Of course it is. But I’m going to stick my neck out and say for anyone looking to get into Horus Heresy, it’s pretty damned close to Ojectively Good Value.

Hell. Two of those and a judicious selection of the weapon packs, and you’ve a really solid (if admittedly unvaried) core force to pad out with tastier tidbits.

More so if online discounters can get you 20-25% off.


by GW standards its not bad, still feels a little padded with the big tank. 2 rhino's and a 2nd dreadnought would have been better

although it'll be a festival of plenty on ebay for the big tank

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Turnip Jedi wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s a helluva price if it’s true. Seems it’s from a reliable source who Valrak says is yet to be wrong.

I mean, it’s still a big old chunk of cash. Of course it is. But I’m going to stick my neck out and say for anyone looking to get into Horus Heresy, it’s pretty damned close to Ojectively Good Value.

Hell. Two of those and a judicious selection of the weapon packs, and you’ve a really solid (if admittedly unvaried) core force to pad out with tastier tidbits.

More so if online discounters can get you 20-25% off.


by GW standards its not bad, still feels a little padded with the big tank. 2 rhino's and a 2nd dreadnought would have been better

although it'll be a festival of plenty on ebay for the big tank



it'll depend on how good the tank is on table top I suppose. we'll have to see if HH 2.0 manages to make land raiders decent.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





whilst I haven't played 40k in a while, up-gunned heavy transports like this and the Land Raider feel like traps in that they cost a lot of points, then the contents are usually another big chunk of points and the tank itself becomes a bullet magnet

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
 
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