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Hi I am playing at our local club on Tuesday and I am facing orks. I have put together 2 possible forces and would appreciate some feedback and tips.

Force 1.

Librarian attached to assault terminator squad transported in landraider crusader.

2 tactical squads of 8 plus missile launcher, sgt with power fist and flamethrower/ plasma gun carried in Rhino's.

Devastation squad with 3 las cannons, missile launcher and heavy bolter, sgt with power fist carried in Razorback.

Landraider with twin linked las cannons and extra armour plus auto cannon.

2 dreadnoughts with extra armour, one with auto cannon and missile launcher and other with heavy flames and power fist.


Force 2.

Perot kantor attached to assault terminators in landraider crusader.

2 assault squads with 5 men, sgt's with power fists and melt a bombs.

2 tactical squads in rhinos as above.

Devastation squad as above but in rhino.

Stern guard squad of 8 men plus sgt. All ith plasma pistol and lightening claw, carried in Razorback with twin linked las cannons.

So there we have it. I figured one is a close combat force and the other a distance shooty force with some close combat capability. I had thought librarian with epistolary using the power that transports through warp 24" and a shooting power. The pesto force gains his extra attack for the terminators which should provide some pain.

I'd appreciate some feedback.

Thoughts:

Both lists:
1. where is your thunderfire cannon? they are one of the best, most undercosted weapons in the entire game and one of basic marine's main advantages over other flavors of marine, I honestly wouldn't leave home without one. The techmarine can bolster a piece of terrain in your own deployment zone, the gun is awesome, and you get a guy with a servo harness (which is awesome) if the gun goes down first.

2. You shouldn't mix weapons in devastator squads, since they aren't long fangs you can't split fire so you are stuck firing lascannon at infantry or heavy bolter at vehicles they can't hurt. Go with all missle launchers if you can, they are a nice, all purpose weapon.

3. why would you put devistators in a transport at all? they can't all shoot out of it, it is a waste

what models do you have available to work with?

Spelling: Devastators, not Devastation squad; Pedro Kantor, not Perot Kantor.

Devastators can only have four weapons; avoid putting lascannons and plasma cannons in Devastator squads, it's a lot cheaper to put them in Tactical squads and load up on missile launchers and heavy bolters for your Devastators.

Powerfist and meltabombs on the Assault Sergeant are redundant, drop the meltabombs.

Your Assault Terminator and Sternguard units are going to be horribly, horribly overpriced, find themselves at #1 on the other guy's hit list, and die in turn one. Assault Terminator squads are better Deep Striking since you aren't blowing 450+ points on one average-capability assault unit in one durable tank with no useful guns. If you must take an Assault Terminator unit in a Land Raider, take a small squad in a Redeemer.

The regular Land Raider isn't that useful; you get more firepower for fewer points out of two Predators who are less likely to be the enemy's first target.

It is the first list. The second one doesn't use pedro well and assault squads are not a good idea.

Orks can not deal with av14. Their best approach is to ignore it and concentrate on everything else and maybe try to knock them out in cc, again this isn't so reliable.
So 2 landraiders will just not be fun for them.
Just keep everything back, as far from the orks as possible and let the 'raiders give everything else a cover save.
You may be a bit low on shots to deal with loads of models but I would not worry so much.
Give the dev. squad 3 ML and the heavy bolter and the tacticals the lascannons, it is cheaper and usually better arrangement.

I don't know what to tell you. Both lists are horrible, and unless you can just plain out general someone, you're going to have a hard time getting anything done.

Let me look at your model options and try to do something more organized and redundant in structure (I would be thrilled to face either in a tournament) as both lists are all over the place and wasting points in the 100s.

Give me a few hours to think on this... I'll get back to you

First things first, some items aren't legal. You need a full 10 man squad to get the ML/Special weapons
2.Devastators only get 4 heavy weapons.
3.If your fielding assault squads, I suggest to drop them and get bikes instead. Or make them 10, 1 powerfist w/ dual flamers. That should do it.

Sample list for em orkz
HQ
Pedro Kantor

Troops
Tac squad
1 Powerfist
1 Flamer
1 Lascannon
Razorback (no upgrades)

Tac squad
1 Powerfist
1 Flamer
1 Lascannon
Razorback (no upgrades)

Tac squad
1 Powerfist
1 Flamer
1 Lascannon
Razorback (no upgrades)

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad (5)
All LC
Landraider Redeemer

Sternguard (5)
Combi-flamer
Powerfist
Razorback

Sternguard (5)
Combi-flamer
Powerfist
Razorback

Heavy Support
Predator
HB sponsons
Either a HK missle or Stormbolter

Devastator squad (5)
4 Missle launchers

1995 points

Basic tactica
Pedro w/ termies in the raider. Get in assault fast! Combat squad the tac marines. Put the special weapons w/ sarge in the R-back. Shoot as many transports he has as possible. Devastator squad should finish off the inhabitants. Rapid fire the hell out of them with your sternguard. Use the special rounds that wound on 2+ (hell fire). Kraken and dragon fire are good but I find hellfire rounds are best suited against orks. Hope you have fun gaming

Well diabolical13 did most of that already (nice list). I would cut a tac sqauad and up my sternguards to 10 (remember they score now) with some melta and toss them in pods and then give the Devs a pod too (3 pods). But that's just me. I'm a little iffy on the terminators, but given the models you're tossing around, Diabolical13 is making good use of them.

His list is what an organized, thought out and redudant list should look like, and can roll well. Besides my changes, I couldn't do much better.

Ok so his is what I've got to use.

Pedro and honour guard.

Librarian in terminator armour.

Librarian not in terminator armour.

Stern guard squad.

3 five man jump pack squads where sgt has power fist.

3 10 man tactical squads, 2 include plasma guns and one a flamer. Each at the moment has a missile launcher.

Devastator squad with choices from 3 las cannons, 2 heavy bolters, 2 plasma cannons and a missile launcher.

Terminator assault squad of five which include 3 with twin lightening claws and two with thunder hammers and shields.

Terminator squad of 5 includes cannon, storm bolsters and chain fists.

2 dreadnoughts.

Landraider crusader with multi melts, hurricane bolters and twin linked auto cannon.

Land raider with two twin linked las cannons and twin linked auto cannon.

Razorback with twin linked las cannon.

Vindicator with devastation cannon thingy.

3 rhino's.

Tech marine.

Tech marine in servo harness.

Apothecary.

The original plan to battle orks went south when the Ork bosses wife said he can play out. ( he he he) so now I'm up against a 1500 point chaos marine army tomorrow night.

Those are the models I have, I know int needs other things but they will be bought late July when hols are over.

Any ideas?

Three questions... how many sternguard do you have, are your tacticals painted, and what load out do/can your dreads have?

8 stern guard plus sgt with power sword. Stern guard have lightening claw and plasma pistols. Dreads are fixed I'm afraid as they were scrabbled together, auto cannons both, one a missile launcher and other power claw with heavy flamer.


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All painted pics will be following when I get chance.

Ok, sternguard can't have lightening claws, so I'm guessing you have vanguard. Is that assualt cannons or auto cannons on your dreads (there is no model in standard dreads for auto cannon)?

How many honour guard (do you mean command squad) with Pedro and what do they have?

No I mean honour guard, chapter champion with relic blade and bolt pistol, honour guards x 2 with power fists and power swords and bolt pistols. Yes vanguard, the ones without jump pack options.

As far as dreads, they are big versions of the terminators weapons, not sure which, they were originally the black reach box set dreads I think and I use hem as the higher S and AP weapon.

The honour guard don't count on the force organisation chart with a chapter master as hq.

SpiritOfKantor wrote:No I mean honour guard, chapter champion with relic blade and bolt pistol, honour guards x 2 with power fists and power swords and bolt pistols. Yes vanguard, the ones without jump pack options.

As far as dreads, they are big versions of the terminators weapons, not sure which, they were originally the black reach box set dreads I think and I use hem as the higher S and AP weapon.

The honour guard don't count on the force organisation chart with a chapter master as hq.

Ok, honour guard have to come is sqauds of 5 (and they can't have power fists), so not sure what those can be used for (sargs or vanguards?). Sounds like assault cannons on the dreads (you really need to get/read a codex).

I think everything else makes sense... let me se what I can do.

Hi, just checked, honour guard unit composition is one chapter champion and two honour guards, all can have power weapons in war gear.


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I'm using 5th edition marine codex if that clears it up, and thanks for your help

SpiritOfKantor wrote:Hi, just checked, honour guard unit composition is one chapter champion and two honour guards, all can have power weapons in war gear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm using 5th edition marine codex if that clears it up, and thanks for your help

Are you wanting to use the honour guard? Let me know if you think your tacticals could pass as sternguard.

Hmmmm, they are kitted with standard bolt guns, nothing fancy.

The honour guard are ok but their main use is the chapter banner rule and the chapter champion is good for close combat with the relic blade and artificer armour. If I use them I think they need to be mobile as walking in opens them to long range attack from a defiler?

I find very few uses for honor guard outside using them asterminator's little cousins (without an invuln) deep striking on turn 1 or fluff reasons. Also I don't think the chapter champion can have a relic blade, pretty sure it's a power weapon or thunder hammer only. Also defilers are not really an issue since the battle cannon is only AP3 and the honor guard have a 2+ save. Oh, also the banner doesn't stack with Pedro's +1A bubble, which is a shame.

Seriously, if you can (with a lot of proxying), I suggest you try Diabolical13's list, but if you can't, you can't.

In my mindset I am incapable of making a competent list out of your models, you have too random models that don't synergize well, but I believe (hope) others can help you with that.

Just checked and chapter champions or any model in an honour guard squad can have a relic blade.

SpiritOfKantor wrote:Just checked and chapter champions or any model in an honour guard squad can have a relic blade.

True, and he can keep the PW too, so you can choose which one serves that turn's purposes

Ok, didn't have a codex on hand, good you checked it.

So now I'm playing 1500 points against chaos marines. I am taking the devastator advice and having it missile launchers only.

I'll put las cannons in the tac squads and they wil have to wander in in rhino's as I only have one razorback. Unless I pay the points and state what they are at the game start.

I'll also keep the assault terminators in the LR and Put Pedro with them.

I'll play around with the veterans and might field a dread or two as deep strike.

We are going to play one of the new battle missions from WD, the death worlds ones. They are a laugh with all sorts of stuff going on each turn.

I was thinking keep one tactical squd in reserve with a dread and a scoring vet squad in the razorback to come on and take an objecctive in turn 3 or 4? Maybe clear the way with an orbital bombardment from Pedro in turn 2 or 3.

Grundz wrote:

3. why would you put devistators in a transport at all? they can't all shoot out of it, it is a waste

Rhino has 2 Fire points which means that DevastatorS can fire two weapons from it if it remains stationary.

Most of the advice above is sound however...

Never deep strike Assault Terminators. They can do nothing when they arrive. 1st they're in reserve so will turn up randomly, thats probably 2 full turns without them. If you get them in turn three they ds and can't shoot (got no guns) or assault, they can only run for cover or into fire. This means that for more than half they game they are potentially twiddling their thumbs (extremely difficult for dudes with lightning claws) Always field assault terminators in a Land raider if they are not foot slogging. Deep Strike Shooty terminators though... thats always good fun.

I agree with the Thunderfire comments, but mainly against troop heavy lighly armoured dudes like Orks. Its not as good as the Imp Guard Manticore but it is fun.

Devastators should be geared up in a similar fashion depending upon how you intend to use them. Two Lascannons and Two heavy bolters in a ten man squad that is split into combat squads (Heavys seperated) is pretty effective in smaller games.

Thats my two pennys

Missile devs are good, just deploy them in cover and shoot! Don't worry about the razors, rhinos are good thanks to the fire points.

I don't really see a reason to reserve a dread (or vets) outside a pod though. Also, remember you can't use the bombardment out of a land raider, and the termies want to be in CC all the time.

I don't know anything about the death world rules, but I wish you luck, and have fun!

Ok, well here's the best I can do

Use 4 stern guard and 6 tacticals to make a sternguard squad... take two of these squads (20 models), giving the sarg's PW and melta bombs (replace the pistol not the bolter). Might need to use honour guard as sargs. Put one of these in a Rhino, borrow/proxy either a drop pod or rhino for the other.

Use remaing tacticals and whatever to make 2 tactical squads with PG and HB, + sarg with PW and melta bombs (replacing the bolter on these), have them ride in rhinos

Use those MLs to make a dev squad of 6 with 4 mls, sarg and a walking wound. Take your Razorback with them

Throw your terminator assault squad with Kantor into the Crusader and enjoy (or shave down a sternguard squad to 9 and have him ride with them).

That leaves 50 points to kit out Sternguard with heavy flamers and combi flamers (for the orks) unless you think he'll take a lot of armour, if so, then meltas/combi meltas instead. After that spend points on extra storm bolters on rhinos or putting bigger heavy weapons in tactical squads.

Thank Lobukia, much appreciated!

I have uploaded some pics using fruit based telephony, thats the finished moddels, more to come next week when I have finished them.

This threads moving fast...

Against Chaos Marines defo try to use your tac marines as sternguard. They count as scoring with pedro but also have the special ammo that will make fun of your oppos power armour saves with ap3. (If he has Thousand sons beware of the same thing back at you though)

So take as many tac marines as stern as you can, with pedro as your hq!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jees, Lobukia works really fast...

Somewhere in the mix, I missed the switch to the smaller chaos game. I'd scratch the Termies, throw Pedro and sternguard into the crusader and shave a tac squad down to 5 (that's 1500 now instead of 2k).

Now you're using only your models, with combact squading the non-LR sternguard and tacs you'll have 6 scoring units (if you need to) and some very good anti tank and solid anti PA options.

If you're curious, my current 2k list is pretty sternguard heavy (30 of them +3 dreads) and just trashed a GK jump list, a SW drop list, an Ork horde list, and some CC heavy Eldar on its last 4 outings... sternguard are very versitile and really work well in IF or CF lists.


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Can't stress enough: read through stern guard rules and use their special ammo appropriately. Don't cross them with vanguard. Kantor only makes stern guard scoring and they are an entirely different monster than their jump pack counter parts.

Post a quick AAR sometime tomorrow or Wednesday and let us know how it went.

For fun I proxied 10 tac marines as sternguard all of them w/ combi-meltas in a vanilla LR. Really bad day for enemy haha. His ig list was destroyed (mech guard w/ vets).

Combi Meltas with the Sternguard Ammo rocks!

Ok so battle over. We played one of the deth world battle missions from the white dwarf from a month ago. Much fun and environmental mayhem!

He lost more units but scored 1 point on the objectives! Doh!

I took out his heavy support and his jump demons in turn 1 using the missile launching devastated squad, thanks for the advice.

Of al the advice I think they were most effective with a tech marine to provide 3+ cover save as I deployed in cover. Unfortunately he had lash of submission and dragged me kicking and screaming out of cover!

A good game, lessons learned.