Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Does a Warlock attached to a Guardians unit cost as an HQ choice? I'm assuming it does, but I just wanted to make sure.

See the codex - it is a unit upgrade.

You can take Warlocks as an HQ choice provided you have a Farseer, but a Warlock is not necessarily an HQ.

A warlock bought for a guardian squad does NOT take up a HQ slot on the FOC.

He is also part of a troop choice, so if he's the only surviving member of the squad, he can capture objectives.

So then he wouldn't count as a separate KP either, right?

Nope.
Models bought as upgrades to units are not a separate kill point. They are part of the unit they are bought for.


A Warlock from the HQ unit CANNOT be attached to another unit (they are NOT ICs) anyway.

chromedog wrote:A Warlock from the HQ unit CANNOT be attached to another unit (they are NOT ICs) anyway.

So a warlock brought in as an IC (HQ unit), and then attached to a unit - banshees, for example - would count as a separate KP? Not that you'd probably do it this way, but could you attach a warlock (IC) to a unit of guardians? Is it basically like the dedicated transport, where it doesn't take up a slot in the FOC? If the guardians are all killed off, does the warlock become an IC?

Wel, I think I've gone well beyond what would probably happen in a game , but I'm just curious now.

Thanks!

mars2024 wrote:So a warlock brought in as an IC (HQ unit)...

As has already been noted, a Warlock is not an Independent Character.

Right, sorry, I just looked it up - they're a squad (3 to 10 models). So ICs (farseer, autarch, ect.) can attach to them. They can just cast onto a nearby unit (ie banshees), but not actually join them. I think I get it now.

Thanks everyone.

Warlocks can't "cast" anything onto another unit except Destructor and that's a flamer template usable only on enemy units.

So all the powers only apply to the warlock's unit. And that's only guardians and any ICs attached to the warlock unit.

Grr. Honest - I have read the codex. Obviously, I need a refresher.

Yep. And apart from Destructor they are always "on."

My understanding is they can only join another unit if said unit is allowed the upgrade i.e Guardians. I don't think they can join Banshees. When they come in squads it is for the purpose of attaching them to their relevant HQ choice i.e Farseer/jet council.

Technically, Destructor is also always "on", it just isn't used except in your Shooting phase. Oc, running around with a template perma-attached to a warlock to simulate Destructor always being on, would make for an interesting game.

neilvicks wrote:My understanding is they can only join another unit if said unit is allowed the upgrade i.e Guardians. I don't think they can join Banshees.

Right.

neilvicks wrote:When they come in squads it is for the purpose of attaching them to their relevant HQ choice i.e Farseer/jet council.

So then I could have a list that has an Autarch, Farseer, and Warlock squad - if the warlocks were attached to the Farseer (or Autarch) without violating FOC?

mars2024 wrote:
So then I could have a list that has an Autarch, Farseer, and Warlock squad - if the warlocks were attached to the Farseer (or Autarch) without violating FOC?

Yes, and it is not in fact necessary to attach an IC to the warlock squad. Having a Farseer in your army allows you to buy a Warlock squad, one warlock squad per farseer. The warlock squads don't count against the number of HQ choices you are allowed to use. Most players attach the farseer (who is an IC) to the warlocks but it's entirely permissible to run them as separate units. This is a change from the previous codex in which the Warlock squad was a retinue, which forced the Farseer to join them if you bought them and wouldn't let him leave.

Raxmei wrote:Yes, and it is not in fact necessary to attach an IC to the warlock squad. Having a Farseer in your army allows you to buy a Warlock squad, one warlock squad per farseer. The warlock squads don't count against the number of HQ choices you are allowed to use. Most players attach the farseer (who is an IC) to the warlocks but it's entirely permissible to run them as separate units. This is a change from the previous codex in which the Warlock squad was a retinue, which forced the Farseer to join them if you bought them and wouldn't let him leave.

So the Warlock squad is a 'free' unit?

More or less. It is an HQ unit that does not use an FOC slot, similar to a dedicated transport (at least, a DT for an HQ choice anyway).

As above, but you wouldn't really want the Farseer running around without them IMO.

- The warlock squad doesn't take up an FAQ slot buy for all other purposes counts as an HQ choice.
- The farseer is an IC so it can attach to a diff squad then thw warlocks i you take them.
- the warlock that can be take with guardians or heavy support weapons counts as a member of that unit, so thw warlock w the guardian troops counts a a troop. It can not leave the sqaud.
- warlock power are innate and do not require a psychic test to use. Their powers, except deateutor obviously, only work on the group they are member of.

So could you attach a Farseer (with Warlock retinue) to another unit? I don't know if you'd ever do such a thing, but that might make Banshees, or one of the other elites more interesting.

Warlocks are not a retinue I'm pretty sure.
And even if they were, an IC loses the IC status while his retinue is still alive.

mars2024 wrote:So could you attach a Farseer (with Warlock retinue) to another unit? I don't know if you'd ever do such a thing, but that might make Banshees, or one of the other elites more interesting.

Given that the Warlocks are not a retinue, the Farseer can join the Warlocks just as an IC can join a unit. Of course, once he does so, he is part of that unit and can only join another unit by leaving the first unit. So no, A Farseer joined to Warlocks cannot merge both Warlocks and Banshees into a single uber-unit.

Exactly.

Historical Trivia: Back in 3rd edition, there was an expansion booklet for Codex: Eldar called Codex: Craftworld Eldar, containing special lists for Beil-Tan, Iyanden, Alaitoc and Saim-Hann craftworlds. Iyanden had an option to take IC Warlock Wraithseers. Which helped nearby Wraith units, but had no restriction preventing them from joining other squads, and they coould take the normal Warlock powers. Enhance on a unit of Banshees or Scorpions was nasty.

mars2024 wrote:So could you attach a Farseer (with Warlock retinue) to another unit? I don't know if you'd ever do such a thing, but that might make Banshees, or one of the other elites more interesting.

You can attach a Farseer to whatever squad you like but not the warlocks. Since the warlocks are not themselves ICs they can't join other units. If the Farseer ends movement within coherency of both a warlock squad and a banshee squad his player has to declare which one he's joining. See also rigeld2's post about the warlocks not being a retinue, and how even if they were that would prevent the farseer from joining other squads while they still lived.

There was a brief period of time in which the Craftworld codex gave Iyanden spiritseers IC status, but that was quickly taken away in errata. When that rule was still in effect it did allow warlocks to join aspect squads.

Also in the 3rd normal 'dex, and this is when i think some confusion may be coming from, you would separate a warlock from the counsel to lead a guardian squad, similar to how cryptecks work now. But this is not the case in the 4th ed book, guardian and waithguard warlocks are sergeants, nothing more.