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Hey Daakas,

I've been lurking around long enough and have finally accepted that I spend way too much money buying little toy soldiers and way too much time painting as well as I'm able. I've got about 2000 points of models now and have some lists put together, but I'd like to see what others (with more experience) would put together with what I've got. I'd like to pick everyone's brains for 1000, 1500, and 2000 point lists. For whatever it's worth, I fight mostly SMs. Anyway, this is what I've got to date:

HQ
1xFarseer (foot)
1xWarlock (foot)
1xFarseer (jetbike)
6xWarlock (jetbike)
1xAutarch (foot)

Troops
10xDA
1xDA Exarch
20xGuardians
2xHW platforms

Elite
12xFD
2xFD Exarch
4xHowling Banshees
1xHB Exarch
5xStriking Scorpions

Fast Attack
7xSwooping Hawks
4xWarp Spiders
1xWS Exarch

Heavy Support
3xWar Walkers
1xFalcon

Transport
2xWave Serpents

I'm looking to pick up another couple of WSs and maybe a Fire Prism or 2 and maybe some jetbike guardians.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to get us started, here's my current 1500 point build:


1xFarseer (singing spear, jetbike, RoWit, SS, Doom Guide, Fortune)
5xWarlock (singing spear, jetbike, 4xDestructor, 1xEnhance)

Troop
5xDA
1xWS (SS, shuri-cannon, tl EML, vectored engines)
5xDA
1xWS (SS, shuri-cannon, tl EML, vectored engines)

Elite
6xFD
1xExarch (dragon, crack-shot)
1xWS (SS, shuri-cannon, tl scatterlasers, vectored engines)
6xFD
1xWS (SS, shuri-cannon, tl scatterlasers, vectored engines)

Heavy
1xWar Walker (2x scatterlasers)
1xWar Walker (2x scatterlasers)

1495 points

Admittedly, I'm still looking for 2 of the 4 WSs listed.

Your list is pretty solid, just a few things to tweak to optimize.

Drop your vectored engines. They only come into play for a single damage result when you move flat out. Not worth the points. Drop all 4 and you can add in a 3rd walker with scatters and have 20 points spare!

Also drop guide from the farseer. No need to twin link any of his weapons(TL flamers re roll to wound, but doom gives you that) and you should never have more farseer powers than you are capable of casting.

With the spare points add another warlock on a jetbike with embolden. Re roll failed leadership tests(including psychic powers).
Only have a couple of singing spears in your jetseer council, and only on warlocks not carrying destructor. They want to be in assault against tanks and other units, and the extra attacks matter.

You also want to add runes of warding, as it is the best psychic defense in the game. Drop the exarch from the fragons to pay for it.

I thought I read somewhere that if a vehicle moved flat out and was stunned (and thus destroyed) that the passengers were just dead (as opposed to making saves). I'm trying to find it now.

I also planned on using the jet council primarily ranged (using the assault move to pop out of range/behind cover).

Something came up in one of my other threads about how to best use the jet council. Based on the above list, should the council be AT primarily, or CC?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is based on a list Revackey was building (but with models I have)

HQ:
Autarch (140) w/ Jetbike, Laser Lance, Mandiblasters, Fusion Gun
Farseer (173) w/ Jetbike, Runes of Witness, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide, Singing Spear
Warlocks x4 (264) w/ Jetbikes, Destructor x3, Enhance x1, Embolden x1, Singing Spear x1,

TROOPS:
Dire Avengers x5 (72) w/Exarch double ASC
Falcon (190) w/Holo-fields, Spirit Stones, Shuri-Cannon, EML
Dire Avengers x5 (72) w/Exarch double ASC

ELITES:
Fire Dragons x5 (80)
Wave Serpent (125) w/ Spirit Stones, tl SL
Fire Dragons x5 (80)
Wave Serpent (125) w/ Spirit Stones, tl SL

HEAVY: (180)
War Walkers x3 (180) w/SL x2

TOTAL: 1499

Thoughts?

I ran this list over the weekend vs. SM and it went quite well. The DA with no trans didn't work out as well and I could have used more troop units (we played a 4 objective Seize Ground game and I won, but only because I was able to contest all his objective and the dice were with me).

mars2024 wrote:I thought I read somewhere that if a vehicle moved flat out and was stunned (and thus destroyed) that the passengers were just dead (as opposed to making saves). I'm trying to find it now.

when moving flatout you may not disembarkin any circumstance. So, if you suffer a destroyed the unit is lost. I think it might be in the FAQ......

Yup bottom of page 6.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement
phase in which it has moved flat out, what happens to
any embarked models, as passengers may not
disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in
that Movement phase? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.

tdwg83 wrote:

mars2024 wrote:I thought I read somewhere that if a vehicle moved flat out and was stunned (and thus destroyed) that the passengers were just dead (as opposed to making saves). I'm trying to find it now.

when moving flatout you may not disembarkin any circumstance. So, if you suffer a destroyed the unit is lost. I think it might be in the FAQ......

Yup bottom of page 6.

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement
phase in which it has moved flat out, what happens to
any embarked models, as passengers may not
disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in
that Movement phase? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.

Vectored engines counters that, right?

Your units are only destroyed if they die during YOUR movement phase. So if you move flat out and ram, and your vehicle is destroyed, you loose them. Also, if you move flat out and get immobolized on difficult terrain, they are destroyed.

The way to counter that, is Dont ram with units inside, and dont tubro boost into terrain (unless you need to to win the game).

Get Rid of Vectored Engines......Thats such a bad upgrade.
Give your farseer Warding.
Take off all your spears, they dont do anything. Even if you use them to blow up a tank, you then cant charge with your 3x str9 attacks.
Destructor is kind of Meh. You really only need 1 or 2.

Fire Dragons dont need an exarch, they kill armor 12+ without problems.

As far as your heavy support either add a falcon or a prism, walkers are out of place, especially when you only have 2 and no guide.

Yeah, I'm trying to add more wave serpents and fire prisms, but at the moment I like running 6 SLs on the War Walkers. They do really well for me most of the time. (Although I only just ran a falcon for the first time and that did ok, too).

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

@Smitty: Thanks also for your batreps. I'm learning a lot from them.

I saw this list on another post and tried it last night against Titan Atlas' BA build (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/442548.page) via Vassal.

I made a lot of mistakes, but was thoroughly trashed. I really don't like the guardian bikes, especially in non-objective games (this one was anhiliation).

HQ
1xAutarch (140) Jetbike, Mandiblasters, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun

1xFarseer (175) Jetbike, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Doom, Singing Spear

7xWarlocks (485) Jetbikes,
4 with Witchblades, Destructor
1 with Witchblade, Embolden
1 with Witchblade, Enhance
1 with Witchblade

TROOP
6x Guardian Jetbikes (205), 4 with Twinlinked Shuriken Catapults, 2 with Shuriken Cannons 
1x Warlock on Jetbike, Embolden, Singing Spear

6x Guardian Jetbikes (205), 4 with Twinlinked Shuriken Catapults, 2 with Shuriken Cannons 
1x Warlock on Jetbike, Embolden, Singing Spear

ELITE
5x Fire Dragons (80)
Wave Serpent (110) Twin Linked Scatter Lasers & Spirit Stones

5x Fire Dragons (80)
Wave Serpent (110) Twin Linked Scatter Lasers & Spirit Stones

HEAVY
2x Fire Prism (300) Holo-fields

War Walkers x3 (180) w/SL x2

Total: 1999

I'm sure my biggest problem was tactics, and I know that many of you have commented on evildrspock's thread (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/442788.page#4153450), but any additional thoughts would be appreciated. I'll link to the batrep as well if Atlas does one.

How about something like this:

HQ
Autarch (115) PW, Fusion gun, Jump Gen
Farseer (105) Doom, warding, witness

ELITE
5x Fire Dragons (80)
Serpent, tl SL (115)

5x Fire Dragons (80)
Serpent, tl SL (115)

5x Fire Dragons (80)
Serpent, tl SL (115)

TROOP
5x DA (60)
Serpent, tl Cannons (100)

5x DA (60)
Serpent, tl Cannons (100)

10x Storm Guardians (92) 2 Meltas
Wave Serpent, Cannons (100)

FAST
5x Warp Spiders (110)

HEAVY
3x Walkers (210) 6xEML
3x Walkers (180) 6xSL
3x Walkers (180) 6xSL

=2007

I like War Walkers and they seem to be the most feared Eldar unit (aside, perhaps from Fire Dragons). I also have the Warp Spider models and since they move 12" they should fit in a mechdar style list.

Are there problems you see? How does that work, being over by 7 points? Is there a protocol or is it on a game to game basis? I assume it's accepted to be under a few points rather than over.

I would drop the runes of witnessing, and change doom to guide. Your scatter fire needs guidance.

Also switch the scatter lasers to your troop tanks, and the S. cannons to the fragon serpents. Fragons get in close anyways, but the troops need to stay back.

I guess spend the extra 8 points on another guardian.

I know some really like fire prisms, but their templates are not reliable. I have been much happier since I have started running falcons.... I run at least 2... I put 5 da in there with Eldrad and potentially another Farseer in the other with ss, guide and fortune...
I like war walkers, but runt them in groups of 3 with scatter lasers or shuricannons and guide them... If you are running a Seer Council deathstar - I like singing speers in 2-3, but the rest with witchblades for more CC attacks.. I usually run 1 with spear with enhance, 1 spear with emobolden, 1 spear naked and 3 witchblades with destructor, farseer with fortune, doom and SSand ROW
I like my falcons with Brightlance and Shuri Cannons - 200pts of hard to kill shooting tank that when guided is very nice
With elites you have I would run 2-3 Fire Dragons 5 man squads with Exarch with FirePike + crack shot +/- Tank hunter depending on how good your melta rolls are in WS
Banshees need to be squad of 10 with exarch with executioner and both powers
I personally like Harlequins better, but that is my preference, in my hands they do better and fortuned with an invuln save, seem better to me
FAst attacks are really meh in 5th ed unless you have hornets Imperial Armour and they let you use IA rules at your local game store
I typically run
2-3 Falcons bl, shuri cannons with spirit stones and holofields
2-3 DA 5 man squads in Falcons naked for objective grabbing
potentially a GJK squad with warlock - Spear/Destructor and 1 upgrade shuri cannon 4-5 man squad (inc warlock)
2 Fire Dragon squads 5man + Exarch FP Crack Shot with WS try to get one BL or Shuri cannons with Spirit stones
HQ either Eldrad and Farseer for Falcon or Farseer with bike seer council as described above
Depends on points
I use my tanks a lot outmanuever your opponent as they will have more than you and you do not want to get into CC
If you want CC use harlies or Banshees but back up with fortune and doom
Good luck

I put this list together, but I think it's illegal FOC-wise, right? Can the Falcons be dedicated transports or do they take up slots in HS regardless?

2000pts

HQ
Autarch (115) PW, Fusion gun, Jump Gen
Farseer (90) guide, warding, witness


ELITE (0-3)
5x Fire Dragons (80)
Wave Serpent, tl Cannons (100)

5x Fire Dragons (80)
Wave Serpent, tl Cannons (100)

5x Fire Dragons (80)
Wave Serpent, tl SL (115)


TROOP
5x DA (104) 1x Exarch w/dual-ASC, Bladestorm
Falcon (170) EML, Holo-field

5x DA (104) 1x Exarch w/dual-ASC, Bladestorm
Falcon (170) EML, Holo-field

10x Storm Guardians (92) 2 Meltas
Wave Serpent, tl EML (120)


FAST (0-3)
5x Warp Spiders (110)


HEAVY (0-3)
3x Walkers (180) 6xSL
3x Walkers (180) 6xSL


=2000
If that is the case (RE: the falcons)

** ALT 2000 pts List **

HQ
Autarch (115) PW, Fusion gun, Jump Gen
Farseer (90) Stones, guide, storm, warding, witness


ELITE (0-3)
5x Fire Dragons (80)
Wave Serpent, tl SL (115)

5x Fire Dragons (80)
Wave Serpent, tl SL (115)

5x Fire Dragons (80)
Wave Serpent, tl SL (115)


TROOP (2-4)
5x DA (104) 1x Exarch w/dual-ASC, Bladestorm
Falcon (170) EML, Holo-field

5x DA (104) 1x Exarch w/dual-ASC, Bladestorm
Falcon (170) EML, Holo-field

10x Storm Guardians (92) 2 Meltas
Wave Serpent, tl EML (120)


FAST (0-3)
5x Warp Spiders (110)
5x Warp Spiders (110)

HEAVY (0-3)
3x Walkers (180) 6xSL
(2x Falcons)

=2000

Thoughts?

Corsairs from IA11 are the only ones that can take a Falcon as a dedicated transport. For a regular Eldar army, Falcons are always a HS.