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hey guys, new to Warhammer and picked up the DE. Made my first list of 2000pts and want to know how to improve.
My idea is use the venoms with trueborn, hellions, and reavers for anti units, while useing the raiders, ravagers as
anti tank. And the wyches are there to do either depending on what the opponet fields. Baron will go with the hellions
and duke will deploy with one of the trueborn units. after deployment split him to one of the wych units and put the truborn
on the venom with the upgraded +3 posion weapons and let them do there thing.

HQ

baron sathonyx > 105
duke sliscus > 150

Elite

5 kaba trueborn > 85
-5 shardcarbine

5 kaba trueborn > 85
-5 shardcarbine

5 kaba trueborn > 85
-5 shardcarbine

Fast Atk

5 reavers > 140
-1 cluster caltrop

5 reavers > 140
-1 cluster caltrop

10 hellions > 170
-1 helliarch
-venomblade

Troops

9 wyches > 118
-hydra gauntlets
-9 haywire grenades

9 wyches > 118
-hydra gauntlets
-9 haywire grenades

10 wyches > 140
-1 hekatrix
-venomblade
-2 hydra gauntlets
-10 haywire grenades

Transports

3 venoms > 195
-3 nightshields

3 raiders > 225
-3 nightshields

Heavy

2 ravagers > 220
-2 night shields

Trueborn should be cut down to either to 3 to take 2 heavy weapons or 4 to take all special weapons.
Reavers should probably go down to 3, with either a Blaster or Heat Lance. Personal preference, although blasters can be shot from farther away.
If you're going to take Hellions (most would advise not to) take an Agonizer on the Helliarch.
Wych squads need, need, NEED an Agonizer in them. Always.
Razorflails are mariginally more effective than Hydra Gauntlets by statistics. Your call.
The 2nd splinter cannon on Venoms is an absolute must (12 shots at 36" range, and it's a defensive weapon so you can move 12" and fire)
Flickerfields are more valuable in most cases than Night Shields.

Now for general design suggestions:

There's a tournament standard of 20+ Lance weapons in a 2k list, but generally speaking as a rule of thumb every single unit should carry an anti-tank weapon if possible.

The Baron would actually be most effective in a Beastmaster squad with 2 Beastmasters, 5 Khymerae for absorbing wounds and 4 Razorwing swarms for general damage. (This is the standard most people use, just don't use the Clawed Fiend. It's overpriced.) He gives them a +1 to cover saves and with 6" move, D6" run and 12" assault they can keep up with your other stuff. I know, Baron and the Beastmasters have different movement speeds, but it's possible to keep them moving at the same pace by moving them separately.

Trueborn units are usually run as units of 3 or 4 each carrying Blasters in a Venom. You can also do them with Splinter Cannons or such, but the general usage of them is Blasters/Venom.

Wow, thats alot lol. Ok, so my questions to you are as follows:

Why would you want an agoniser over a venomblade?
-Agoniser wounds on a 4+ when a venomblade wounds on 2+

Why would you want blasters over shardcarbine?
-Blaster is a 18" str 8 ap2 assault 1
-shardcarbine is 18" str X assault 3
Doenst the shardcarbine grant more atks that always wound on a 4+ b/c they are posioned, while a blaster is only giving 1 shot?

How are flicker fields better then nightshield?
-nightshield reduces range of atks against it by 6" keeping you in range but opponet out of range
-flicker field only grants a 5+ invulnerable save

Not trying to come off as arguing with you, just new and would like clarification on how those changes would help me. thanks

Self Destruct pretty much hit the nail on the head but I'll go ahead and give you my thoughts as well. A lot of it will echo him though.

taranis3001 wrote:
HQ

baron sathonyx > 105
duke sliscus > 150

Sathy is nice but he really needs to go with beastmasters. Hellions are, unfortunately, not that great. Sathy makes one squad decent but better options are out there.
Sliscus works nice in wych cult lists but his limitations on deployment need a squad to be built around him. Personally I would drop one (Sliscus) for some haemys for the wyches. Give each haemy a liquifier. It is a very powerful gun that will go through MEQ armor 50% of the time.

taranis3001 wrote:
Elite
5 kaba trueborn > 85
-5 shardcarbine
5 kaba trueborn > 85
-5 shardcarbine
5 kaba trueborn > 85
-5 shardcarbine

If you are stuck on sliscus make one a full 9 man squad with 2 cannons and 7 carbines. Otherwise drop them down to 4 guys with 4 blasters in a venom w/ 2 SC. I'll go into more detail when I get to the transports.

taranis3001 wrote:
Fast Atk

5 reavers > 140
-1 cluster caltrop

5 reavers > 140
-1 cluster caltrop

Don't do them like this. If you want 5 take scourges for 2 special weapons. Run 3 reavers with a heat lance or blaster. Remember that you can move 6" in the assault phase with them even if you don't assault so that 9" melta range has you sitting 15" away. Which is still in flamer range and rapid fire (assuming they move up). This is the main reason I like blasters on them. If you run scourges their better armor and jink invul can protect you with a heat lance.

taranis3001 wrote:
10 hellions > 170
-1 helliarch
-venomblade

Actually with Sathy these guys are NOT fast attack anymore they are troops. With that said a full squad w/ agoniser is the only workable way to run them. Even then Incubi and wyches do better in CC. I like the models, but as far as rules...there is always 6th ed.

taranis3001 wrote:
Troops

9 wyches > 118
-hydra gauntlets
-9 haywire grenades

9 wyches > 118
-hydra gauntlets
-9 haywire grenades

10 wyches > 140
-1 hekatrix
-venomblade
-2 hydra gauntlets
-10 haywire grenades

Now you always, I mean ALWAYS need the hekatrix w/ agoniser. Then look at the numbers. Wyches with a razorflail do .4167 wounds to MEQ as opposed to .375 with gauntlets. The only time razorflails are better is against GEQ and not the round you assault as it is now .889 wounds for the razor and 1 for the gauntlets, but against GEQ you shouldn't struggle in CC anyway. Go with razors. Then add in you haemys to give them FNP. It will make them much more survivable. On that last squad cut one out to make room for the final haemy. Remember that haemy can be taken 3 per HQ slot.

taranis3001 wrote:
Transports

3 venoms > 195
-3 nightshields

3 raiders > 225
-3 nightshields

Never take NS. If you consider a blaster has an 18" range then you want to shoot it at something that can threaten your vehicle. Well things like stationary plasma, multi meltas, and assault cannons don't care about the NS and will still be able to hit you. Then if you consider the range of the SC and Dark Lances then things like lascannons, railguns, Missile Launchers, and autocannons will also be in range. Flickers at least give you a save. NS may work once or twice against someone who hasn't played against them but they will catch on quickly.

With that said venoms are amazing but they need both splinter cannons. That is really the only upgrade they need since you get a flicker for free.

taranis3001 wrote:
Heavy
2 ravagers > 220
-2 night shields

Reference the above on the NS. At 2K you really should have three ravagers, and they all need flickers.

With that said you are troop light. You should be maxed out around 1500-1750 on troops. Get some warriors 5 guys w/ a blaster in a venom w/ 2 SC. The minimum on AT weapons should be 1 darklight weapon for every 100 points of the army. That's where Self Destruct got the 20 from. You are drastically light. Blasterborn, trueborn with blasters, and ravagers help, but getting some blasters into the troops and fast attacks will also help.

taranis3001 wrote: Why would you want an agoniser over a venomblade?
-Agoniser wounds on a 4+ when a venomblade wounds on 2+

Agonizers also ignore armor saves, which is a big deal. It makes it pretty easy to take out bigger monsters without Invulnerable saves and certainly put the smackdown on tougher things that don't have invulnerable saves such as Meganobz.
The only time wounding on 2+ is important is if you are fighting a horde, which Wyches should NEVER do considering you have so much shooting available.

taranis3001 wrote:Why would you want blasters over shardcarbine?
-Blaster is a 18" str 8 ap2 assault 1
-shardcarbine is 18" str X assault 3
Doenst the shardcarbine grant more atks that always wound on a 4+ b/c they are posioned, while a blaster is only giving 1 shot?

Blasters are Strength 8 which means they inflict Instant Death on Toughness 4 and below, which is most characters. Kind of cool.
Their main strength is, well, their high Strength which, if you understand the way damaging vehicles in this game works, high Strength attacks are necessary.
One of the main focal points of Dark Eldar is that we're really, really good at taking vehicles out due to having so many anti-vehicle weapons available and in large quantities.

taranis3001 wrote:How are flicker fields better then nightshield?
-nightshield reduces range of atks against it by 6" keeping you in range but opponet out of range
-flicker field only grants a 5+ invulnerable save

Night Shields really only affect weapons in the extreme short range or extreme long ranges (respectively things like Meltaguns and Lascannons). On the one hand, you have the things like Meltaguns which you can use Night Shields to prevent them from getting the extra penetration bonus from being close, while things like Lascannons can be avoided simply by sitting WAY back.

Unfortunately, with Raiders, you're using them as either something to drop out with or something to sit in and shoot. You're not going to be sitting back on the edge of the board like Ravagers, and you're not going to get THAT close to an enemy.

Basically, Night Shields really don't do much against the midrange weapons (say, 18-24" ranges) which is most of the antitank barring Meltaguns.

Flickerfields are great simply because they are cheap and provide a 5+ save against EVERYTHING (even things like Dangerous Terrain damage from landing them in terrain). That being said, if you have the points for Night Fields, you can take them, but take Flickerfields first and then Night Fields after everything.

tl;dr Flickerfields > Night Fields

Sooooo after redoing it and adding in the changes i came up with this ... (didnt real come up with it, just incorperated everything said lol)
Anyways .. this is what I got:


HQ

baron sathonyx > 105
Hamey > 60
-liquifer

Hamey > 60
-liquifer

Hamey > 60
-liquifer

Elite

4 kaba trueborn > 108
-4 blasters

4 kaba trueborn > 108
-4 blasters

4 kaba trueborn > 108
-4 blasters

Fast Atk

3 reavers > 81
-blaster

3 reavers > 81
-blaster

2 beastmasters > 84
-4 razorwing

Troops

9 wyches > 130
-hydra gauntlets
-hekatrix
-agoniser

9 wyches > 130
-hydra gauntlets
-hekatrix
-agoniser

9 wyches > 130
-shardnet and impaler
-hekatrix
-agoniser

Transports

3 Venom > 195
-3 splinter cannon

3 raider > 210
-3 flicker fields

Heavy

3 Ravagers > 345
-3 flicker fields


Now, on the beastmasters selfdestruct said take 2 beastmasters with 5 khymerae and 4 flocks. The codex says you can take one of the following
per beast master: 0-5 khymarae / 0-1 clawed fiend / 0-2 razorwing flocks. So how would i get 5 khymerae and 4 flocks?

Pretty much my only question left.

By having 3 Beastmasters in the unit you can have 5 khymerae and 4 flocks