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Mantic Games now has a Kickstarter online, initially to fund a higher quality standard for the release of Kings of War 3rd Edition, by adding extras such as counters and wound markers to all of the starter sets, as well as the production of an exclusive Vampiress miniature based on the cover art.

Additionally, the funds will go towards producing more plastic miniatures at a much more rapid pace than is possible with their currently limited amount of capital.

Link to the Kickstarter Page

This kickstarter has funded the design, sculpting and tooling of 20 new plastic units, 6 metal heroes, one plastic hero and a variety of supplements and counters:

- Werewolves
- Ogres
- Ogre Shooters
- Orc chariot/fight wagon
- Trolls
- Mummies
- Gargoyles
- Dwarf Berserker Cavalry
- Goblin Fleabag Cavalry
- Elven Palace Guard
- Abyssal Dwarf Immortal Guard
- Elf Stormwind Cavalry
- Twilight Kin Dark Knights
- Celestian Paladin Angels
- Celestian Sisters
- Celestian Men-at-Arms
- Celestian Paladins
- Abyssal Golems.
- Celestian Knights.
- Goblin Mincer.
- Celestian Cat Cavalry.

- 5 custom-designed kickstarter characters (metal).
- Kickstarter-exclusive skeleton dog handler (metal).
- Ogre Hero.

All of these new models are being given away free to backers, either as single models or whole units, depending on how much the backer has pledged.

Scroll down for full info about the great big pile of free stuff! - It starts getting juicy at the $175 mark, and the $225 mark nets you over $700 worth of Mantic swag!


Already-Funded stretch goals:

$7.5k - Names of all $100+ backers included in the rulebook.
$10k - Free additional werewolf box for any backer who purchases a set (for $25) from the Special Extras section.
$15k - Every backer with a rulebook in their pledge will get it signed by Alessio and Ronnie, as well as $100+ backers receiving a free digital copy.
$20k - Mantic will sculpt and tool the upcoming ogre army in plastic, and a free additional ogre box will be given out to any backer who purchases a set from the Special Extras section (this will be added on Monday).
$25k - Free litho-print of the KoW Map, signed by Ronnie, added to all $100+ pledges.
$35k - Limited edition "Mantic Splat" dice for all $35+ pledges.
$50k - Free Orc Chariot/ Fight Wagon kit for all $100+ pledges. Orc Chariot/ Fight Wagon kit added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$65k - Kings and Legends supplement - free electronic copy with every pledge of $100 or more.
$75k - Free unit of Trolls (3 models) for all $175+ backers. Free Troll model for all $100+ backers. Trolls added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$85k - Free unit of 5 Mummies for all $175+ backers. Free Mummy model for all $100+ backers. Mummies added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$95k - Free unit of 5 Gargoyles for all $175+ backers. Gargoyle model for all $100+ backers. Gargoyles added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$100k - Free Kickstarter-exclusive Undead Skeleton with dog for all $100+ backers. Kickstarter-exclusive blue acrylic wound markers for all backers with wound markers in their order.
$110k - Free unit of 5 Dwarf Berserker Cavalry for all $175+ backers. Dwarf Berserker Cavalry model for all $100+ backers. Dwarf Berserker Cavalry added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$120k - Free unit of 5 Elven Palace Guard for all $175+ backers. Elven Palace Guard model for all $100+ backers. Elven Palace Guard added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$130k - Free unit of 5 Goblin Fleabag Riders for all $175+ backers. Goblin Fleabag Riders added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$140k - Free unit of 5 Abyssal Dwarf Immortal Guard for all $175+ backers. Abyssal Dwarf Immortal Guard added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$150k - Free unit of 5 Stormwind Cavalry *or* 5 Dark Knights for all $175+ backers. Free unit of 5 Stormwind Cavalry *and* 5 Dark Knights for all $225+ backers. Both units added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$175k - Free unit of 3 Paladin Angels for all $175+ backers. Free Paladin Angel model for all $100+ backers. Paladin Angels and the new expansion book added to the Special Extras section.
$200k - Free unit of 5 Celestian Sisters for all $175+ backers. Free Celestian Sister model for all $100+ backers. Celestian Sisters added to the Special Extras section.
$225k - Free unit of 5 Celestian Men-at-Arms for all $175+ backers. Free Celestian Man-at-Arms model for all $100+ backers. Celestian Men-at-Arms added to the Special Extras section.
$250k - Free unit of 5 Celestian Paladins for all $175+ backers. Free Celestian Paladins model for all $100+ backers. Celestian Paladins added to the Special Extras section.
$275k - Free unit of Abyssal Golems (3 models) for all $175+ backers. Golems added as a "buy one get one free" deal to the Special Extras section.
$290k - Free Ogre Hero for all $100+ backers. Free exclusive resin Ogre Hero for all $500+ backers.
$315k - Free unit of 5 Celestian Knights for all $175+ backers.

From their Kickstarter Page:

Mantic Games is a small company looking to do big things. In June, we’re launching Kings of War – a mass combat fantasy battle game.

We’ve got the game, we’ve got a gorgeous range of miniatures, but you deserve more, so we’ve set up this Kickstarter so we can go about delivering it.

The rule system is clearly written, simple and innovative - Written by Alessio Cavatore, Kings of War is an easy-to-learn fantasy battle wargame that is tactical, simple and innovative.

The rules have been fine-tuned after thousands of games and hundreds of pieces of feedback from the gaming community – it is a clearly written game for hobbyists, by hobbyists that allows you to play large-scale games with lots of miniatures easily and quickly.

A fantasy battle game written for both the Casual and Competitive Player - With an innovative turn sequence, a built-in tournament pack and the option to play timed games, Kings of War is a fast and simple game that naturally lends itself to competitive tournaments. It’s such a good fit, even our own tournament organizers have been able to play whilst running the event!

An expanding Miniatures range at an affordable price - Six armies are now available – from horrifying Undead, brutal Orcs all the way to proud Dwarfs and stoic Elves. Each is affordable and models are simple to put together, allowing you to get them on the gaming table quickly.

A fantasy world brought to life - The compelling Kings of War world has been developing for years and the new Rulebook contains a detailed map of the new world and the history of the land and its races. This rich fantasy realm is one of war and bloodshed where kingdoms clash in epic battles.

Why Kickstarter?

We want to make collecting big armies as easy as possible and the funds from this Kickstarter will go towards bringing out new miniature kits quicker whilst allowing us to bring you cool rewards like exclusive miniatures, wound counters, unit cards and more – all the things we’ve wanted to do but haven’t been able to... until now!

$4,728 pledged of $5,000 goal, 29 days to go

I think they might just make it

Now lets see if they are willing to toss in some sweet stretch goals

Still blech. It needs some real goals and proper rewards for hitting those goals. No timetables for how the money would speed along these new figure lines. No benchmarks like "if we hit 15K, we can include wound counters in every starter set. if we hit 20k, we'll have the money to include wound counters AND dice for the same price. 40k would let us sculpt an extra sprue for more poses", nothing like that is stated anywhere, and certainly not so plainly. Just vague "we'll have more money to do more stuff". Yeah, no crap, Sherlock.

WHAT is my dollar going to do is all I want to know. WHY should I give that dollar to Mantic through kickstarter as opposed to just buying the same product through retail right now. HOW will that dollar affect the price or affect the quality or affect the release schedule as opposed to just waiting for the stuff to come out and buying it then.

As I said in the other thread, it's not that this is a terrible thing for a kickstarter, it's just terribly executed. I see no absolutely no reason to kickstart this instead of just buying that stuff normally, which I can do right now and not have to wait a month+. Kickstarter is SUPPOSED to get you interested, it's supposed to give you a reason to plop down money now for a product that doesn't exist yet and to make that final product better or cheaper or faster. The fact that this is such a mediocre attempt is what I dislike so much about it.

yeah, not like other kickstarter projects only plan one or two stretch goals ahead.
I'd **almost** think you're out to hate this from the start. almost. if I didn't know you better

As I said in the other thread, it's not that this is a terrible thing for a kickstarter, it's just terribly executed. I see no absolutely no reason to kickstart this instead of just buying that stuff normally, which I can do right now and not have to wait a month+.

I can put forward one possible reason, which is that Mantic are selling the stuff in this Kickstarter at a considerable discount.

For example, the $100 level gets you about $150 worth of stuff. The $175 and especially the $275 levels also have major % discounts off of RRP. I'd be happy to calculate the RRP of the different 1000-point army deals if people are interested!

By the way, about the comment regarding the $10k stretch goal for the werewolves from the other thread, pointing out that someone can just pledge $1 + $25 to get their free set of werewolves.. it was a fair comment, so I've backed the project, and commented on it to pass that along to Mantic.

They're probably not allowed to change that particular stretch goal now that people have already started backing cash, but they can keep it in mind for future stretch goals!

In the mean time, everyone enjoy snapping up your 6 werewolves for $26 as soon as this approaches 10k!

It's not even the stretch goals so much, there's just nothing really NEW in this for any of the backer levels. I love kickstarter, and I love supporting cool projects through it and I don't care if it's a big company or a little company, as long as it's an awesome idea. But there's just no real meat to this kickstarter in either what you get out of it or what they plan to do with the money it raises. The only interesting stuff really is the extras that you can get at any pledge level by paying a little more and they're exactly that: extras. They seem like the kind of thing that should have been the focal point of a kickstarter: help us make this cool stuff faster. Or the new armies, show us more than a concept sketch of a single fig, talk about what you plan to do with the army, talk about how the money we're giving you now would make that army better than if we just waited until the release date or puchased current product normally.

I like mantic, I like kickstarter projects, but that's the problem. This is just so half-arsed and directionless that I can't support it even though if it was just presented better or with better perks it would be the perfect thing to part me from my money.

I agree with Kalamadea - the Kickstarter is too broad (all of Kings of War) and lacks goals (the selling points are almost all things that are already being made)

To quote myself from Warseer:

Just look at Overlord and Living Legend. You get your own custom Human character, get a 1,000 point Human army and can contribute to the development of the Human army list... but only if you get 2,000 points of painted non-Humans.

What they should have done is a Kickstarter that focused on, for example, the Werewolves. Pledge rewards would be Undead armies, rulebooks and sundries and an increasing number of Werewolves, stretch goals would be aiming towards making the Werewolves in plastic, adding more sculpts and other improvements to the Undead army.

^ I have to agree with you that the information on the page could use some more detail and focus. Have you watched the video, though?

It goes into more detail, where Ronnie explains that they want the money to get planned models released now, rather than having to wait years to raise the capital to release them.

They have plans for the next 3 years about what they want to release, but this Kickstarter is designed to try and make that happen *now* and speed up the release schedule.

So, if you want something concrete, plastic werewolves, trolls and ogres (there's some cool concept art for the ogres in the video)... as the kickstarter progresses they'll be put into production and you'll be get the chance to buy them *now* rather than having to wait another 1-2 years for mantic to raise the capital to fund them.

Beyond that, a lot of the high-end pledges are directly focused on producing new miniatures for the human army being released next year, with one of them allowing you to personally fund the production of a hero model of your choice, and having it named after you!

Overall, its definitely more of a kickstarter aimed at Mantic's existing fans who want to support the company rather than going for a wider audience.

I'm not going to disagree with the general statement that specifics are best, because the example kickstarter I suggested when discussing this was "Plastic Goblin Sprue Kickstarter" - highly focused and specific, but I don't think that a general appeal kickstarter is bad idea either, as indicated by the fact that it only took a few hours to reach its initial goal. It seems like Mantic are just testing the water with this one, the $5k goal is very modest.. hopefully we'll see more ambitious and specific stuff in future!

All the people complaining about the stretch goals should instead be brainstorming for new ones. I'm betting this hits the 10k mark over the weekend.

I hope Mantic really puts this to good use. It could lead to some great things for them. Don't screw it up!

Just watched the video - Ronnie seems incredibly awkward and uncomfortable in it. Probably should have done more takes, unless the awkwardness is deliberate to make him look more likeable and avoid him looking like a slick fast-talking slimeball.

SS - good synposes of some of the deals up top, but I think you should list them all - trying to work out what exactly you get in each package is very difficult in the KS webpage due to the way they have laid them out. You've done a much better job than Mantic have.

While I actually like Mantic, I haven't been shy of being critical in the past either. I could afford to go for $100-150 into this Kickstarter, but the only miniatures I actually like from the 4 on offer are the undead - which I already own a bunch of. (and haven't painted or build yet, and intend to use for LOTR anyway since I'm not a WFB-type guy so there's not much on offer for me really. I'd either go in for $100+ or for $1 (for the werewolves). Maybe if they allowed a bit more flexibility in the models you can choose from?

Mods - could we eventually get a Mantic subforum on here? What needs to be done?

I think watching the video helps clear things up a lot, as was already said. I think what they're doing is an excellent idea, and I'm happy to support them.

scipio.au wrote:
Mods - could we eventually get a Mantic subforum on here? What needs to be done?

Yeah, a Mantic Subforum would be pretty good; I think Dakka needs a Mantic Subforum.

We should ask Lego if we can have a Mantic Subforum or if he's planning to make a Mantic Subforum in the near future.

In any case, I agree that a Mantic Subforum would be a welcome addition.

scarletsquig wrote:I'm not going to disagree with the general statement that specifics are best, because the example kickstarter I suggested when discussing this was "Plastic Goblin Sprue Kickstarter" - highly focused and specific, but I don't think that a general appeal kickstarter is bad idea either, as indicated by the fact that it only took a few hours to reach its initial goal. It seems like Mantic are just testing the water with this one, the $5k goal is very modest.. hopefully we'll see more ambitious and specific stuff in future!

Mantic reached their goal in a few hours.

Okay. And? What does that actually mean? How can Mantic translate "people pledged $5,000 to buy KoW armies" into "therefore we should make X"?

Ah good - I've been off Dakka for a few weeks and there wasn't one when I was last posting.

Okay. And? What does that actually mean? How can Mantic translate "people pledged $5,000 to buy KoW armies" into "therefore we should make X"?

Have you watched the video on the Kickstarter page? It explains the plans thusly. They have a three year release plan with at least three new armies, it seems likely more given the way they're doing humans. They wanted to give folks a chance to pledge some money, get some cool stuff (the rule book, minis, etc) and in doing so help capitalize the company, thus helping to push forward the release of the new armies. LIkely, it will also provide them with the capital needed to make more plastic sculpts which will be more affordable and that will also help the company in the long run.

So, we give them money, get cool minis and rules in the short term, AND help a company that we like in the long term buy pledging money so that they can start making future plans reality.

scipio.au wrote: I could afford to go for $100-150 into this Kickstarter, but the only miniatures I actually like from the 4 on offer are the undead - which I already own a bunch of. (and haven't painted or build yet, and intend to use for LOTR anyway since I'm not a WFB-type guy so there's not much on offer for me really. I'd either go in for $100+ or for $1 (for the werewolves). Maybe if they allowed a bit more flexibility in the models you can choose from?

I feel the exact same way, i've purchased a ton of stuff from Mantic in the past including both the Undead and Orc army sets. But with this kickstarter im just feeling incredibly left out, i really want to support them but i strongly dislike both of Mantic's Elf and Dwarf ranges.

Im hoping they will add a 100$ option than includes a pre-order of either a Goblin or Human Army set.

scipio.au wrote:Just watched the video - Ronnie seems incredibly awkward and uncomfortable in it. Probably should have done more takes, unless the awkwardness is deliberate to make him look more likeable and avoid him looking like a slick fast-talking slimeball.

He really does seem nervous in that vid, which is kinda odd since he's normally so relaxed in all the other videos he does.. think he might be reading a script in this one or possibly worrying a little too much about it having to look professional.

SS - good synposes of some of the deals up top, but I think you should list them all - trying to work out what exactly you get in each package is very difficult in the KS webpage due to the way they have laid them out. You've done a much better job than Mantic have.

Thanks, I'll fill out some of the rest, but only up to the $800 level so it doesn't take up loads of space, the really high level pledges are not going to be relevant for most. I'll go ahead and add up RRP's in USD for the 4 different armies,too, so people can get a better judgement of what they're getting.

Also, the $7.5k stretch goal has now been met!

Names in the book for everyone, and onwards to free werewolves!

By the way, if anyone is wondering what to pledge, I have to say, the $125 level is really good value.. the 2 army boxes and the rulebook are worth $195 RRP, plus you get the Vampiress, the Orc Shaman *and* an extra mini-rulebook and dice on top of that.

This Kickstarter is, quite simply, saying "Give us some hard cash to help us out, and we'll give you a ton of cheap stuff".

I really don't understand all the negative responses or confusion about what Mantic is doing with Kickstarter. While the wording on the Kickstarter page could use a little more clarification, the video presented spells things out easily. More to the point, this is the email I got from Mantic's newsletter about the project:

"Our three year journey of playtests and worldwide feedback is finally coming to an end as our simple to play gaming system is finally available to pre-order as a 144-page full colour hardback rulebook! We’ve got a great range of new pre-orders for Goblins, Abyssal Dwarfs and a whole host of new army deals, as well as some exclusive offers to any one who picks up the Kings of War Hardback Rulebook through our website! Even with the brand new Goblins and Abyssal Dwarfs we want to be able to give back to our community with more high quality miniature kits quicker so we’ve set up a project through Kickstarter, a crowd-funding website where you can help support creative projects.

To say thank you for supporting us we’ve created a great range of rewards - pledging $100 gets you a copy of the Kings of War Rulebook, a Mini-rulebook, an Army Set of your choice and we will also sculpt the Vampire from the new cover art and include it as well! We really do appreciate your support – we’ve a target of just $5000 which we will use to start pulling forwards our tooling, including production of our plastic Werewolves (and Ronnie has said that if we can stretch to over $10000 that's when he can really do more cool and crazy stuff!)"

Now, from that you can see that the Kickstarter is being used to fund their new plastic kits for the undead werewolves (a picture of the concept art is included on the Kickstarter page), as well as the new plastic kits Mantic are planning for the future; ie: their human army with angels, paladins, demons, elementals, etc. As well as their Ogre army (a small picture of their concept art was included at the end of the Mantic email I got). And there are talks of doing trolls as well. The Ogres and Trolls perhaps being a more mercenary force instead of a full blown army.

You can blast some of this as being "pledge us some money now and we'll give you some goodies and promise more cool stuff you can buy in the future", but, SO? I, for one, would rather Mantic ask me for some money to create cool new plastic minis for a cheap price point, give me some already made cool plastic minis as a reward, and then provide said new cool minis in the future; rather than certain other companies that tell me how awesome their models are and then raise the prices until I'm paying almost fifty bucks for ten little toy soldiers, and eighty bucks for a rule book. But hey, that's just me.

Just watched the video - Ronnie seems incredibly awkward and uncomfortable in it. Probably should have done more takes, unless the awkwardness is deliberate to make him look more likeable and avoid him looking like a slick fast-talking slimeball.

I've noticed in his other videos that he does talk fast, either too much caffeine or just excitement! Either way, I think he was trying to avoid that in the video by talking relatively slow to be clear and get the point across. I thought the video really had great production though, it was a jump up from their Youtube videos.

He is a great sincere guy, with a great company that started from scratch up.
How they managed to stay alive for so long has always impressed me.
Whether or not they need the money to kick start something new, or to survive, it matters not to me.
They never asked for kickstarter when Mantic first started, I would like to provide continued support.
They reached their first goal, congrats.

Mantic, keep it up, don't let the haters get to you.

Approaching $9k. Good for them. I hope they can get some new and interesting stretch goals up and perhaps some other options for people like myself and Mr Gutsy above. $150 and $200 are obvious spots where they could add in some other options, and both affordable if they could only offer something I'm interested in.

Maybe some "choose 10 points worth of kits from the following" -type stuff which would still allow them to value resin Mounted Revenant Knights above a set of 10 zombies.

I'll be in for $1 and some Werewolves, but I'd like to be in for a lot more.

The starter of this thread was unhappy that in the original thread people complained massively about Mantic doing this kickstarter. So he demanded a new thread. You can see the old thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/451684.page .

I still think that Mantic deliberately lied in its project description when claiming that the game is only launched in June when it actually exists for over a year. And that it is a misuse of kickstarter intention when they present a rulebook as part of the kickstarter project that is already on preorder for some time and has a fixed release date on the very day the kickstarter ends. And I do not agree that starting a new thread because one poster didn't like the critique was justified.

They passed the 10k mark already! Quicker than I would of thought. Congrats Mantic!

Kroothawk wrote:The starter of this thread was unhappy that in the original thread people complained massively about Mantic doing this kickstarter. So he demanded a new thread. You can see the old thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/451684.page .

No, this thread's starter was unhappy about the tone and content in the OP of that thread, given that every other Kickstarter thread on here has a neutral or positive OP, as opposed to the blatantly hostile one which that thread started with.

Kroothawk wrote:I still think that Mantic deliberately lied in its project description when claiming that the game is only launched in June when it actually exists for over a year. And that it is a misuse of kickstarter intention when they present a rulebook as part of the kickstarter project that is already on preorder for some time and has a fixed release date on the very day the kickstarter ends. And I do not agree that starting a new thread because one poster didn't like the critique was justified.

I don't think Mantic were as clear as they could've been about the money being to pay for the sculpt of the Vampiress figure, but I also don't think they lied. The game is getting its "official" release in June, Kroothawk - to date, it has been in varying playtest stages, whereas this is the final version of the core rules, including the setting information which has not been present before.

Normally, I tend to agree with what you're saying, but in this instance I think you're massively off-base.

Additionally, if you disagree with a Mod's decision, aren't you meant to fetch it up via PM, rather than in a different thread?

-----

As Schmapdi pointed out, Mantic have hit the $10k target. They've now added an update, with two new stretch goals:

Mantic's Kickstarter Page wrote:UPDATE 1 - incredible! we have already achieved our first goal and all the stretch targets!

We promised the fun would really start after that (although we never expected it would happen so soon!) so firstly - thank you everyone for your support[b/], and secondly [b]let the fun begin...

New Stretch Goals -

if we hit...

$15,000 - a free copy of the electronic rules for every pledge over $100.

$20,000 - we will sculpt the Ogre Army from the video. These were not scheduled for aged yet, but this level of funding will let us get them done! We will add them to the site with a buy 1 unit, get one free offer - like the werewolf offer.

If we get through these I'll think up some more - I will get my thinking cap on - and suggestions on the Mantic Games Facebook page please!

Thank you all again.

Kroothawk wrote:The starter of this thread was unhappy that in the original thread people complained massively about Mantic doing this kickstarter. So he demanded a new thread. You can see the old thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/451684.page .

(Extra Stuff)

And I do not agree that starting a new thread because one poster didn't like the critique was justified.

Cheers for that Kroot, Must have missed that thread the first time around. I didn't realise we at dakka were such tools.

Gotta agree with the squig guy there is a pretty solid difference in the "Hey check out the McVey Kickstarter", the "Zombicide" kickstarters (both of which look awesome and I can't wait to get all my Zombicide goodies) and that thread.
In a fair an balanced world each of these would be given the same chance of being advertised/promoted here on Dakka, so to deliberately ask for this one to be stifled through lack of updated first post (or force a non-interested poster to update it) when it progresses etc seems a little unfair.

Mantic's Kickstarter Page wrote:New Stretch Goals -

if we hit...
...
$20,000 - we will sculpt the Ogre Army from the video. These were not scheduled for aged yet, but this level of funding will let us get them done! We will add them to the site with a buy 1 unit, get one free offer - like the werewolf offer.

This is why I say the current approach is bad. If someone wants to pledge money to get these Ogres made (and the concept art does look great in an "Orcs done right" kind of way), the only rewards above $35 are things they don't want. It is in their best interest to not pledge money, because we're already past the point of no return, but not to the point where the Ogres get anything out of it.

Kroothawk.. I'm just curious to know, and I'm sorry to ask this on a public forum, but did Ronnie Renton just kiss her or did it go further?

Amazing that the total has got so high already. Personally I'm a sucker for hardback books so probably would have got it anyway, and $35 seems pretty reasonable for one.

Oh, you know how it is..



Just to get it out of the way, I was merely scratching my head back there, not hating it as some might imply.

I buy in their stuff wholesale, so while this isn't the kind of thing I would normally worry about, I will still support the book and grab some werewolves. Got all the miniatures I need, but I want them to be able to release a whole bunch of new armies for the game, and then get more people excited about playing it.

I knew Dakka was going to have some kind of meltdown about this, so no suprise there. Good to see some calmer heads prevailing.

Really want those werewolves as stand in Crypt Horrors.