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I agree with torblind. Better to use tesla Immortals. Haven't tried out Lychguard in 8th so I don't really have any opinion about them. Would you use Sword and Shields or Scythes? To get the offensive punch I would guess you have to use Scythes. How do they fare without invul saves?

I have tried the Deceiver and Veil and that works very well for repositioning your shooting units into optimal positions. Especially for Immortals where you can put them on objectives into cover closer to the enemy. It also makes gauss Immortals much more viable.

It's difficult to find a single killer combo, but that is they way it should be for all armies, not those auto include combos.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
I agree with torblind. Better to use tesla Immortals. Haven't tried out Lychguard in 8th so I don't really have any opinion about them. Would you use Sword and Shields or Scythes? To get the offensive punch I would guess you have to use Scythes. How do they fare without invul saves?

I have tried the Deceiver and Veil and that works very well for repositioning your shooting units into optimal positions. Especially for Immortals where you can put them on objectives into cover closer to the enemy. It also makes gauss Immortals much more viable.

It's difficult to find a single killer combo, but that is they way it should be for all armies, not those auto include combos.

I played them against a tyranid genestealer list, giving them CC invulsave with Orikan. They held their ground well against the onslaught and cleared my base of incoming GS waves. I used warscythes.

Nice. Yeah I guess you have to have Orikan. Did you have an OL or Anrakyr too?

Anrakyr, and also CCB for the tesla immortaks. LG were complete monsters in cc but were eaten by smites when the scarabs were gone.

GS change to AP-3 on 6 to wound, so needed that invul also against them.

In the end I won by the closest imaginable margin.

Quite point intensive on characters, but as long as it works it's good. I usually only run a CCB and haven't used the named charachters in 8th a lot.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
Quite point intensive on characters, but as long as it works it's good. I usually only run a CCB and haven't used the named charachters in 8th a lot.

True, this was my first game and I had a good idea on what I was up against, but it worked out not so bad. Anrakyr with S6 is nice as it lets him wound on 2s against T4. LG with A3 was good and when frontline warriors received the heat, they could hit back with 2 attacks each. With two Tesla immortals it was nice to both be able to give MWBD to the LG to handle this turn's genestealers, and for one more unit of Tesla immortals to fry them at a distance. Not easy to do the math if they made their points back, but against this list I felt it worked. Briefly written up here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3600/715040.page#9600309

@ Arach
If you want to do these things you mentioned with Flayed ones, might I suggest the following.

These suggestions might vary on the points...

If you have the points for it a Zhandrek + Obyron + Cryptek veil como is somewhat decent, especially if you're willing to deepstrike some deathmarks or forward place some screen with Deceiver.

But anyway, if you dont use Ctan at the start of the turn you give the flayed ones the MWBD and Transient madness buff. Then at end of move you have the Cryptek Veil Nemesor forward. After this you have Obyron Jump himself and flayed ones to the 6" bubble around Nemesor. This should get you to a 3 or 4 inch charge at your closest point with a +1 to charge distance from mwbd. Just make sure to conga your flayed ones so that they're in 3 inches of Obyron and the cryptek.

If you can afford to use the Deciever, then Grand illusion a ghost ark of leadership up and if you get above a 1 you can bring a 20 man warrior blob or 2 as well (help give you useful targets for mwbd's turn 2). If you're doing a central column of flayed ones you might as well bring the stormlord and Anrakyr for maximum flayed one effectiveness. At this point on your move you get to practically adjacent and then ghostwalk your flayed ones into a 1 inch charge (which may change dependent on shooting phase~).

Unfortunately in this variant your flayed ones wont be MWBD buffed unless you're willing to give up one of your buffs, or also use up your Veil once per game to TP your leader into the 9" range with your cryptek instead of keeping them in the ghost ark and getting them out in T1 move start. Unfortunately you're a little Overlord heavy at this point but I guess you could always phase in some Deathmarks to provide sniper support or even more flayed one squads to bring up the flanks within that 12" Stormlord bubble.

Lychguard bomb is probably worth the points, since it can cut through most things in the game. Unfortunately, since our Troops are really on the expensive side, if it gets shut down we don't really have the support to play the rest of the board as effectively. Usually if you're doing an all-in bomb you want lots of cheap things to flood objectives or bubble around them. So unless you're bringing 6+ units of Scarabs/Warriors we don't really do that, and they aren't that effective anyway.


Also on Lychguard, I'm wondering if just a Cryptek and a unit of Shields is decent to Veil forward. Hard to shift, can kill chaff since they have more attacks, can still be hit with MWBD by a CCB zooming up towards them.

Req -

You can always try a forward placement via Nemesor/ & Obyron initially and then after the initial engagement have your veil character who stuck with the group veil them to another point in the board to continue to keep the pressure on. Plus if it's a cryptek that allows you to go scythe and they'll still have an invul and better reanimation.

My thought is that Warscythes are overkill against a lot of things. Unless you're hunting Nid Monsters, usually 2 damage S7 is way more than necessary. When charging Chaff lines, or trying to clear Troops off of objectives, Hyperphase Swords have more attacks and the Shields work in combat, while the Chronometron doesn't. Not to mention that if you charge with the Lychguard they'll be out of range of the Cryptek anyway unless you give up killing power to congaline back.

Req -

Yeah I suppose it depends on what you're fighting. If it's not multi wound models or higher toughness yeah I agree.

Plus it's always a gamble to charge the cyptek in afterward but so long as he's second in line of the formation and you leave a spot open for him to get back into formation by touching the back of one of the infantry touching then they can support the melee. Just have them swing first so they dont pull away to negate his attacks.

But yeah if I was gonna put a leader on lychguard with shield it might be an overlord, if only so they have a dedicated MWBD source. It always feels weird for me to station a cryptek with a unit that doesn't need the invul save even if they could use the RP bonus since they're high value/multi wound models.

Requizen wrote:
My thought is that Warscythes are overkill against a lot of things. Unless you're hunting Nid Monsters, usually 2 damage S7 is way more than necessary. When charging Chaff lines, or trying to clear Troops off of objectives, Hyperphase Swords have more attacks and the Shields work in combat, while the Chronometron doesn't. Not to mention that if you charge with the Lychguard they'll be out of range of the Cryptek anyway unless you give up killing power to congaline back.

Don't forget FNP types of saves, DMG 2 means another 5+ to pass, so even against w1 models it would make sense


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Lothmar wrote:
Req -

Yeah I suppose it depends on what you're fighting. If it's not multi wound models or higher toughness yeah I agree.

Plus it's always a gamble to charge the cyptek in afterward but so long as he's second in line of the formation and you leave a spot open for him to get back into formation by touching the back of one of the infantry touching then they can support the melee. Just have them swing first so they dont pull away to negate his attacks.

But yeah if I was gonna put a leader on lychguard with shield it might be an overlord, if only so they have a dedicated MWBD source. It always feels weird for me to station a cryptek with a unit that doesn't need the invul save even if they could use the RP bonus since they're high value/multi wound models.

Also if you're balsy you could advance the cryptek in front of the LG so that he'll be in range when they charge passed him

torblind wrote:
Also if you're balsy you could advance the cryptek in front of the LG so that he'll be in range when they charge passed him

Lychguard then fail the charge and your Cryptek gets buttsmacked.

Admittedly, you did say you have to be willing to take risks for that, so you probably knew that already.

 JNAProductions wrote:

torblind wrote:
Also if you're balsy you could advance the cryptek in front of the LG so that he'll be in range when they charge passed him

Lychguard then fail the charge and your Cryptek gets buttsmacked.

Admittedly, you did say you have to be willing to take risks for that, so you probably knew that already.

Yes, comes down to the charge range really, and how dire your situation is


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Requizen wrote:
My thought is that Warscythes are overkill against a lot of things. Unless you're hunting Nid Monsters, usually 2 damage S7 is way more than necessary. When charging Chaff lines, or trying to clear Troops off of objectives, Hyperphase Swords have more attacks and the Shields work in combat, while the Chronometron doesn't. Not to mention that if you charge with the Lychguard they'll be out of range of the Cryptek anyway unless you give up killing power to congaline back.

That was void blades getting the attack upgrade, not hyperphase swords, right? LG would swing the same amount of times regardless of load out, just trade damage for survivability

torblind wrote:

Requizen wrote:
My thought is that Warscythes are overkill against a lot of things. Unless you're hunting Nid Monsters, usually 2 damage S7 is way more than necessary. When charging Chaff lines, or trying to clear Troops off of objectives, Hyperphase Swords have more attacks and the Shields work in combat, while the Chronometron doesn't. Not to mention that if you charge with the Lychguard they'll be out of range of the Cryptek anyway unless you give up killing power to congaline back.

Don't forget FNP types of saves, DMG 2 means another 5+ to pass, so even against w1 models it would make sense

Not a bad point, but FNP is pretty rare outside of Death Guard and some Blood Angel models, and even then I would need to do the math to see if more attacks would be better anyways.

Also that tyranid spell, catalyst? I had a swarmlord catapult 20 fresh genestealers into my deployment zone 4 turns in a row, LG with DMG 2 made him use catalyst on something else. Felt great but admittedly situational.

Ah true, there are some spells and Stratagems that can give it out as well.

I'm still just mad you can't mix and match. Seems logical.

S&B LG worked wonders for me in a game this past weekend. Between them and a unit of wraiths, they soaked a full alpha strike from a massive unit of Death Company utilizing every character buff and stratagem available. I lost 5 of the LG then veiled them out on my turn to support another unit and have a little time to Rez back up. Shot the remaining DC to pieces.

As much as I do like my LG, it always burns me that we pay 15 pts for a 4+ invuln, while SM get a 3+ for 5 pts.

But did you say hyperphase swords have more attacks? (Asking in case I missed that FAQ) I only knew about void blades

torblind wrote:
But did you say hyperphase swords have more attacks? (Asking in case I missed that FAQ) I only knew about void blades

Ah crap you're right, it's Voidblades not Hyperphase Swords that get the extra attack. So... disregard what I said. Warscythes are better, but Shields probably still come in handy depending on who you're facing.

Requizen wrote:

torblind wrote:
But did you say hyperphase swords have more attacks? (Asking in case I missed that FAQ) I only knew about void blades

Ah crap you're right, it's Voidblades not Hyperphase Swords that get the extra attack. So... disregard what I said. Warscythes are better, but Shields probably still come in handy depending on who you're facing.

Yeah, seems DC alpha might be such a case.

I always wanted S&B LG to be viable, perhaps running them across the board with Kutlakh, but haven't really seen it yet.

Where does it say that voidblade gets an extra attack?

For the (Large) Gauss Pylon, although Titanic lets it fire its main profile without BS penalty, does its non-focused version still suffer a penalty to hit if it deep struck that turn?

Lothmar wrote:
Where does it say that voidblade gets an extra attack?

Xenos 1 FAQ. Can find it on the Community site.

req: Thanks...

Awh man, QS doesn't prevent Mortal wounds? Dang...

Guess it's not our unique flavor of Feel no pain. :(

Lothmar wrote:
req: Thanks...

Awh man, QS doesn't prevent Mortal wounds? Dang...

Guess it's not our unique flavor of Feel no pain. :(

Mortal wounds are dealt one at a time, so it can't.

So what is the general consensus on the order that QS and Enduring will happen in. The way its worded makes me think think QS happens and then enduring will takes effect if QS fails. Thoughts?

sieGermans wrote:
For the (Large) Gauss Pylon, although Titanic lets it fire its main profile without BS penalty, does its non-focused version still suffer a penalty to hit if it deep struck that turn?

Don't think Titanic has anything to do with it.

The focused version is Macro D6 so no penalty. The other profile is Heavy 2D6 so penalty for this.

Greetings fellow mechanical overlords!

Long-time Guard player here who got to try out my buddy's Necron army.
Here's a short battle report of my first time trying Necrons vs Iron Hands.

1500 Iron Hands VS 1800 Necrons (we have a houserule where non-codex armies get +20% points for their army)

Battalion Detachment:

HQ's:
-CCB /w Tesla Cannon, Phase Sword and Resurrection Orb, Veil of Darkness (Warlord)

-Overlord /w Phase Sword

-Cryptek

Troops:
2x 12 Warriors
10 Immortals /w Tesla

Elites:
10x Lychguard /w Phase Sword and shields

Fast Attack
3x Tomb Blades /w Gaus, Shieldvanes and Nebulascope

Heavy Support
Doomsday Ark

Flyer
Doomscythe


So the general idea behind this list was the following:
1: CCB along with the Lychguard deepstrikes into his line with the Veil of Darkness.
2: Overlord /w Immortals for Tesla combo.
3: Doomsday and Doomscythe for anti-tank.


The Iron hands were a mix of some Primaris marines /w Plasma, three Dreadnoughts (some nasty Forgeworld ones, can't remember their names), a Captain and a Librarian.


Deployment zone: Hammer and Anvil

Iron Hands got first turn, moved up the board and shot some Immortals, nothing too spectacular (though the AP-4 from the Primaris plasma is... autsj!)
Aaaaand that was when I found out that a CCB isn't a character. woops! Got shot by a dakka-dread, but a 6 on the dmg roll from a Lascannon meant Quantum Shielding saved the mishap.

Necrons, turn 1:
Reanimation Protocols brought back one Immortal even with the Cryptek nearby, meh.
Moved everything up, sadly had to advance my Immortals in order to even shoot anything, making the Tesla combo less effective.
Tomb Blades zoomed forward and got in rapid-fire range of his Hellblasters. Shóuld have killed two of them, but my opponent made a lot of his Iron Hand FnP saves. Only one casualty.

Both the Doomsday ark and the Doomscythe rolled a lot of hits, but all my opponent's dreadnoughts had 5++. Along with the 6+ FnP (or even the DOUBLE 6+ FnP for one dread) meant little damage was done to them.

Lychguard + CCB Deepstruck forward and with a lucky charge roll (and MWBD helping) charged my opponents Librarian, cutting him to pieces. Also tied up his dakka-dread, only to find out it's still pretty kick-ass on close combat and killing three Lychguard.

Iron Hands, turn 2:
Dakka-dread fell back and his entire army unloaded into the Lychguard. A final blow from the charging Captain finished them.
CCB took a serious blow from a nearby melee-dread, though lived thanks to the Necron warlord trait.
More Immortals shot up by the Primaris Plasma.

Necrons, turn 2:
Using the Reanimation stratagem and the Cryptek, I was hoping to bring back some of my 6 fallen Immortals. A bad roll meant only one got back :(.
Moved up again, this time in range with the Immortals. Brought down two Primaris Marines with about 18 shots.
A warrior squad was duking it out with another Primaris Squad, slowly losing but holding an objective.
More fire from the Ark and Scythe, good rolls on the amount of hits but eventually only one wound got through. Rolling fairly low on the damage + enemy's FnP save meant little damage done again.

Iron Hands, turn 3:
With the Lychguard out of the way and the distance closed, the Iron Hands really poured it on this round.
Melee-dread that roughed up the CCB now found the Cryptek and ripped him in half.
Dakka-dread shot up the Doomscythe, though Living Metal meant he could fire normally the next turn.
Tomb Blades took a bunch of plasma and bolter fire, eventually going down to melee combat from a primaris squad.
Immortals got tied up by another Dreadnought.

Necrons turn 3:
At this point it was gonna be tough to come back (not to mention the horrible cards I drew for the Maelstorm of War missions, but oh well).
Immortals fell back and the Overlord moved forward to take on the Dread (bad idea).
Warriors slowly started winning the stalemate thanks to a decent reanimation roll (5 dead, got 3 back).
Doomsday Ark and Doomscythe again opened fire on the melee dread, but, again, low rolls on the dmg and my opponent's double FnP save meant little damage.

I shook my opponents hand and told him, despite a major defeat for the Necrons, I really enjoyed the game.

Post-match thoughts:
1: Lack of anti-tank. Definitely need to bring more anti-tank. Thinking of bringing a Triach Stalker with a Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon. Probably drop the Doomscythe for it.

2: Don't forget your Resurrection Orb, stupid!

3: Definitely should have dropped my Warrior squads to a minimum of 10. This would have meant an extra Tomb Blade which would have helped out quite a bit.

4: Take Warscythes on the Lychguard. If I had those I could have really done a number on one of his Dreads. Although it did cost my opponent an entire turn of shooting to take them down. Hm...

5: Taking the CCB was... interesting. While it wasn't my intention to put him out of the open, Quantum Shielding + Necron Warlord Trait meant he could tank a LOT of hits. Though risky, perhaps it can be used to bait out shots from your opponent?

6: Thinking of taking 3 Heavy Destroyers instead of the Doomsday Ark. They will bring more reliable anti-tank to the table, though they will definitely be squishier and cannot benefit from the Stalker's reroll 1's to hit.

The CCB is a character, it's been FAQ'ed

You should really glance through, there's a couple of important changes


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.. but it's great that you enjoyed it! And welcome to the metal heads hangout