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it is very "sing-songy": it sounds like how a white comedian in the ninties would have done an impression of a rapper or one of those "rap math" educational songs that some one thought would sound hip.
Sort of dated and predictable in it's flow.
No offense, but that was the impression I got.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/20 15:52:44
Rap differs from most other music in that the entry level requires a lower skill base. Irs not singing for example, its chant. Its not (necessarily) musical talent, its repeated beat with a few positional changes and often a treble verse tracking whixch is itself often taken from another song .
Yes, rap can be done well, but bad rap is more passable than bad anything else.
So for starters with so little needed to produce rap there is no excuse to copy someone else, unless you are sampling a backing track from (real) music as many rappers do. Rap, copying rap, there is no excuse.
So, no more Zion. play some Amaya instead, and if you need a tune to go with and auto-beat try an 80's song and remove everything but the verse backing, use your own baseline, and above all your own lyrics. After all even the best rappers don't really have to sing. Once you start actually singing, its no longer rap, and most likely hip hop. The entry level is low enough so the rap at least should be original. If it wasn't comparatively easy to do original rap there wouldn't be any 'battle', which is more or less unique to rap. Battle and other forms of spontaneous rap is where the ease of rap is reduced to show true talent. A real rapper has, or learns, a spontaneous talent, so someone who plays at amateur rap should at a minimum be able to do their own songs from fresh, either with a DJ or computer aided, it doesnt really matter which.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/20 03:35:48
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
tracking constellations as they move across the sky/
a tear forms in my eye and I really don't know why/
I'm just trying to supply a reason to get bye/
when I'm coming off a high and can't really fly/
the universe is beautiful but can I ever match it?
excuse me sounding tragic just kinda outta practice/
wasting my life adding digits to the plastic/
forgetting the ecstatic peace and true magic/
that's how I gotta have it supply it with a passion
life is much more than a chance for me to cash in/
just give me the beat stop and watch me smash it/
sending bars to orbit and I'm never gonna forfeit/
every last failure I take it in and store it/
learning from my deeds so my cunning won't recede/
as I'm running with speed perfect pace for the lead/
I just need to believe in the music that I bleed
fuse it let it breathe in a beautiful dream/
envisioned on a screen in my inner mind's eye
not a sinner gone blind in a cold winter sky
or a victim of the times just listen to the rhymes/
look deep into my eyes and read between the lines/
find the evidence and signs as the brighest light shines
to crevices confined hear the sentences combined
ripple up your spine clear the venom from your mind/
You need, own lyrics, your own baseline and either your own main tune or a tune taken from a non rap/hip hop artist.
You need to get all three of those ducks in the row, not one or two.
Rapping over the sound to a hip hop track is just over-speaking because the rap baseline and tune is provided by the other rapper/ hip hop artist. You must provide the vibe.
You have to provide the rhythm and the lyrics. The baseline doesn't change that much but the vibe you set depends on its tempo.
Take these excellent examples that curiously I have been re-exploring this week a lot on You Tube.
A Tribe Called Quest - Bonita Applebum
100% original, lyrics, rhythm and baseline
original lyrics with borrowed tune from non-rap track, Carly Simon's 'Why'.
In both cases ATCQ provides the vibe, and the sampling of 'Why', done properly, is not considered plagiarism as the rhuythm is changed from the original song even with the sample.
There is a lot going on in rap below the surface, Rap is still the easiest music to get into, so it pays to get it right, especially as rap is often made artificially harder to differentiate rap from crap.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
CT GAMER wrote:it sounds like how a white comedian in the ninties would have done an impression of a rapper or one of those "rap math" educational songs that some one thought would sound hip.
pffft... I couldn't disagree any more. You apparently don't remember how bad those things actually were... Let me refresh your memory.
Amaya wrote:Orlanth, I have no idea what you're talking about it and I don't think you do either. Rappers go over other "rapper's" beats all the time...
Those are established artists who are known to do their own stuff, this can be explained away as cover versions and tributes.
Who are you?
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
CT GAMER wrote:it sounds like how a white comedian in the ninties would have done an impression of a rapper or one of those "rap math" educational songs that some one thought would sound hip.
pffft... I couldn't disagree any more. You apparently don't remember how bad those things actually were... Let me refresh your memory.
(skip to 1:30 for the goods)
Ghidorah
Was that supposed to refute my point or support it? They arent all that dissimilar...
I think Amaya should cover that song tbh. If he did I would be totally glazed.
Calling Nitty Scott MC established when she is barely known in the underground is laughable. Your knowledge is evidently lacking.
Try googling her name, plenty there. I didn't know some of these artists, but I looked them up.
She can also rap, and does her own songs having a talent gives her leeway.
This ones for you, enjoy.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Hey man, I'll chip in. I will be critical, but I won't be rude. Cool?
Firstly, fair play to you for recording something and putting it out there for others to critique. That takes bravery, make no mistake about it. I'd be keen to hear some of Orlanth's efforts, incidentally...
Speaking as a vocalist (though not a rapper, in truth), I'd work a little on your tone and diction: obviously it's recorded in your house, so you're probably concerned about disturbing your neighbours and as a consequence your intonation of the lyrics is a little soft, almost whisper-like. That's cool, there are rappers who do that, but as a white guy that's probably not the best route to go down, as your voice won't (speaking VERY generally) have as much bass to it as your black counterparts, and that will leave it sounding a little weak and non-commital. You're probably better off putting more 'attack' into your voice, making it a little more strident; I'm thinking of Eminem or Professor Green as examples here. More aggression in your vocals will make the performance sound less... I don't wanna say 'insipid', because that's harsh, but you get the picture.
Rhythmically, I would vary your patterning. You seem skewed towards using similar 16th note patterns (as in, for every crotchet beat, 4 semi-quavers - 'one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and' for every beat, yeah?) - try to change that up by starting off with a beat and 'scatting' different rhythms over it 'til you find several patterns you like, combine them, then write lyrics to fit that section, as opposed to the other way round. That way your lyrics will scan nicely, which is 80% of the battle, something that most songwriters never admit to.
As for lyrical content.... I mean, I guess that's a personal thing but there are some sections I would look at, for example:
tracking constellations as they move across the sky/
a tear forms in my eye and I really don't know why/
I'm just trying to supply a reason to get bye/
when I'm coming off a high and can't really fly/
I would avoid these rhymes. You might mean them, but sadly, that doesn't really matter. Put yourself in the shoes of the listener - would you be into that? 'Fly', 'high' and 'sky', is like 'fire' and 'desire'; they're generally considered to be 'avoid' rhymes, as they've been done to death, and they are often 'go-to' rhymes by people just starting out in the lyric-writing game.
Everything else is actually pretty good (barring one or two rhythmic issues), and as you grow in confidence, your lyrics will get better. Ignore the haters. Keep it up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/21 09:32:31
Thanks Albatross. The style is simplistic because I think it fits with the beat.
This one is more creative.
Abstract intangibles coming from the mandibles
decapitating cannibals and they fold
into cranes and fly away you can try to find a way
to escape the labyrinth
but the transcript is equipped with chains you cant rip
from walls not Samson
ghosting like a phantom
arguably its hard to see
every part of me composed of atoms
my prose is handsome flows entrancing
hypnotic effect like chronic in your chest
just honest you're impressed
like continents I flex the size of mountains
my style is astounding while you try for ounces
I pass and then surmount it
I found this stone of philosopher
turned it to a caustic verse
and took all yall to church
To be fair he asked for peopel to comment. He could have said "only reply if you like it" and then I wouldnt have posted, but he didnt.
I also waited until close to 100 people had viewed the thread yet he still had ZERO responses. I figured some response was better than no responses at all.
Take your own musical thread Albatross. Some of the people heaping praise on your work are the same people making fun of very similar music in past musical discussion threads.
Difference?
They want to get on the love train becasue of your status here on Dakka. Is that sort of false praise really that constructive?
Amaya can consider the criticism or he can take the easy route and call everyone that doesnt like it "ignorant" and a "hater".
But then if that is your game plan then why ask for feedback in the first place?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/06/21 18:37:31
To be fair he asked for peopel to comment. He could have said "only reply if you like it" and then I wouldnt have posted, but he didnt.
I don't think Albatross was equating criticism with 'hating'. In industry parlance, 'haters' would be people who want you to fail or not even try in the first place.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
CT GAMER wrote:Was that supposed to refute my point or support it? They arent all that dissimilar...
If you actually believe that last bit you said, then this discussion is over because you're obviously deaf. Not a single thing is remotely close to these rap vids/songs. Nothing other than the fact that they are both Caucasian... If you listen to that 2nd guy's "rapping" and claim that you hear anything close to the OP's flow, then you're just trying to bait people and be a douche canoe, imo.
OP, it was good. I like your flow. Syllables popped when they should and for the most part, it felt smooth. Keep up the good work.
Albatross wrote:Hey man, I'll chip in. I will be critical, but I won't be rude. Cool?.
Rude is when you bother to give a comprehensive and constructive critique and are told your full of gak.
Albatross wrote:I'd be keen to hear some of Orlanth's efforts, incidentally...
You wont. You need ears to learn to appreciate music and critique it, not a gob.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
To be fair he asked for peopel to comment. He could have said "only reply if you like it" and then I wouldnt have posted, but he didnt.
I don't think Albatross was equating criticism with 'hating'. In industry parlance, 'haters' would be people who want you to fail or not even try in the first place.
Well, yeah. I wasn't actually referring to anyone in particular with my comment about 'hating', either. I was just trying to make the general point that, starting out as a musician, you will encounter a lot of rotten tomatoes - the best thing to do is ignore them and keep trying to grow and improve. Criticism is really useful, but only if it's well-informed and constructive. Sadly, there are a lot of people without the balls, or the talent, to get up and put their efforts out there for people to hear. Those sorts of people are often the ones who are rude about other people's art.
And bear in mind, this is coming from someone who knows exactly how hard it is to get anywhere in the music game. It's taken me years of heartache and disappointment just to get onto square one, and most people don't even get there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CT GAMER wrote:
Take your own musical thread Albatross. Some of the people heaping praise on your work are the same people making fun of very similar music in past musical discussion threads.
Difference?
They want to get on the love train becasue of your status here on Dakka. Is that sort of false praise really that constructive?
Have I struck a nerve or something? You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.
And since when do I have 'status' on Dakka?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orlanth wrote:
Albatross wrote:I'd be keen to hear some of Orlanth's efforts, incidentally...
You wont. You need ears to learn to appreciate music and critique it...
A First-Class Honours Degree in Music helps too, I find.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/06/22 12:21:21
I dont know much about music or rap but i didn't think it was very good. Maybe it's the fact you start by writing the lyrics down? Having seen the movie 8-mile and Hustle and Flow (thus granting me expert insight) i would say the key to good rap is alot of improvising.
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
Perkustin wrote:I dont know much about music or rap but i didn't think it was very good. Maybe it's the fact you start by writing the lyrics down? Having seen the movie 8-mile and Hustle and Flow (thus granting me expert insight) i would say the key to good rap is alot of improvising.
Rap Battles and improv are specific skills and not required to do well in Hip-Hop. I don't remember Hustle and Flow well enough to comment, but I remember the character also spending a lot of time writing lyrics in a notebook.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
In hustle and flow he does indeed write lyrics in a notebook but in the recording session scenes the songs only get good after a few in-session tweaks. (Indeed the proposed song 'stomp that bitch' sees a massive overhaul in the course of the fictional session, transfroming into 'whoop that trick' with new verses to accomadate the drastically different theme) I am assuming the film makers are trying to show an integral part of the 'rap game' and to lesser extent making music in general.
The poster for 50 cent get rich or die tryin' had him holding a gun in one hand and a baby in the other. For this reason alone i did not see said film.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/22 14:24:17
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
