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Doctoralex wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
ETC have basically abandoned necrons. 1 non 3 vault list in the entire thing. whelp

Called it. As soon as all the codices have been released, we will be the laughing stock bottom-tier codex again, just like with the index.

I have a suspicion that GW really hates necrons. Why else do we always lose our cool stuff and get crap in return?
Pariahs? Gone.
Cool flayed ones? Gone.
Monolith? Pathetic.
Necrons that actually act like robots rather than larping humans? Lol nope, even Techpriests are more inhuman and robotic. Techpriests don't move their lips to speak, for one thing. They tend to have a voice modulator thing.
Vehicles? Don't really fit aesthetically and aren't as tough as they should be. Yes, QS can potentially be very strong. Potentially being the operational word. In practice its very unreliable, and I'd rather have raw stats than to rely on a gimmick. We really need a proper tank vehicle that isn't an overpriced paperweight like the monolith.

Dont lose hope, there is a forgeworld titanic unit coming!

And thoughts aside: Who the f. plays on tournament level? Only real tournament dudes and tryhards. my necrons fight pretty good on the average gaming table, hell they are even scary for some peeps.

Its just what you make of it. And we are flexible.
Want a horde army? Go for it.
Want fast skimmers? Nephrek and A LOT of fly units got you covered.
Want a HQ heavy playstyle? DestroyerLords/Lords/CCB/Overlords are there to choose from.
Want flyers? Just spam croissants.
Want A HUGE fething BUILDING DEEPSTRIKING somewhere? monolith helps you out.
Want to spam some mortal wounds? USE fething SHARDS OF GODS TO DISMANTLE YOUR ENEMIES.
Want some Vehicles? Okay we only got the arks and walker (A FKN HUGE SPIDER-THING!). still manageable though!

EDIT: ah thanks for the edit, whoever it was

 _Ness wrote:
Dont lose hope, there is a forgeworld titanic unit coming!

It is a cool unit, but I fear two things

1) Its underwhelming compared to everyone else's titan equivalent for its points cost
2) Its really good at first, but then gets nerfed to oblivion. Because necrons can never have nice things.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Knowing GW, Destroyers, DDAs, Tesseract Arks, will all get more expensive, and everything else will get slightly cheaper, which will actually make us worse.

Actually, they aren't much in the habit of lowering the cost of things; just raising them.

Really? Necrons were lowered almost all over when the codex dropped

I hope that the large FW spider thing becomes a good counter against knights, now that the IK codex is out FW will hopefully construct some good anti knight rules. Im going to warhammer fest in germany next month, would be nice if i could buy it there

I love the look of that Canoptek Sentinel or whatever its gonna be called. I'm debating a purchase based on aesthetics alone.

But yes, we have a lot of at least viable options to put onto a table. The codex doesn't shine in competitive play, but is at least varied enough to be fun to use. I do feel like we're still getting punished for success in previous editions though.

torblind wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Knowing GW, Destroyers, DDAs, Tesseract Arks, will all get more expensive, and everything else will get slightly cheaper, which will actually make us worse.

Actually, they aren't much in the habit of lowering the cost of things; just raising them.

Really? Necrons were lowered almost all over when the codex dropped

That's now how errata price changes go though. They're almost always up.

Errata price changes neuter powerful things, they don't do anything for things that suck.

For example, Craftworld Eldar armies feature all of the same units they did as when the codex came out, they just have fewer total models. The other 85% of the codex that sucks still sucks.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

torblind wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
Knowing GW, Destroyers, DDAs, Tesseract Arks, will all get more expensive, and everything else will get slightly cheaper, which will actually make us worse.

Actually, they aren't much in the habit of lowering the cost of things; just raising them.

Really? Necrons were lowered almost all over when the codex dropped

That's now how errata price changes go though. They're almost always up.

Errata price changes neuter powerful things, they don't do anything for things that suck.

For example, Craftworld Eldar armies feature all of the same units they did as when the codex came out, they just have fewer total models. The other 85% of the codex that sucks still sucks.

I don't understand what you're trying to say about Craftworld Eldar here... but that codex is full of good units.

Also, the Space Marines have seen points drops in almost every FAQ or CA since the codex dropped, so let's not go down the rabbit hole of "this will never get fixed" or " GW hates us" - GW likes to make money, so I'm 100% positive if they could wave a magic wand and make the Necrons a cash cow they would.

for now, submit your issues and evidence to GW and hopefully we'll see a change in the upcoming FAQs and CA.

We know they're listening, so while we have their ear, why don't we use this opportunity... not to berate them, but to show them through evidence that we are slightly over-costed or whatever your thought are on the "necron issue"

To me.. we're slightly overcosted, paying too much for Reanimation. We know they won't over-haul the mechanic, so i think they need to adjust the cost associated with it. Also, necrons feel uninspired... to me, they are just not as fun to play. It has nothing to do with wins/losses, and everything tod o with... it just isn't exciting or fun. not sure what to do about that.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I love the look of that Canoptek Sentinel or whatever its gonna be called. I'm debating a purchase based on aesthetics alone.

There is a video on youtube how to make the sentinel from a GW wraith box, if you dislike FW resin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEjrOK6Mlr0

 p5freak wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I love the look of that Canoptek Sentinel or whatever its gonna be called. I'm debating a purchase based on aesthetics alone.

There is a video on youtube how to make the sentinel from a GW wraith box, if you dislike FW resin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEjrOK6Mlr0

I recently got the FW kit and it is a little intimidating to assemble, but it actually came out great.

Fun kit.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I love the look of that Canoptek Sentinel or whatever its gonna be called. I'm debating a purchase based on aesthetics alone.

There is a video on youtube how to make the sentinel from a GW wraith box, if you dislike FW resin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEjrOK6Mlr0

I recently got the FW kit and it is a little intimidating to assemble, but it actually came out great.

Fun kit.

I was more intending to refer to that new Necron "Construct" that they showed at WarhammerFest 2018. It looks like a giant Triarch Stalker, but even more awesome
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/773985885934699100/

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I love the look of that Canoptek Sentinel or whatever its gonna be called. I'm debating a purchase based on aesthetics alone.

There is a video on youtube how to make the sentinel from a GW wraith box, if you dislike FW resin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEjrOK6Mlr0

I recently got the FW kit and it is a little intimidating to assemble, but it actually came out great.

Fun kit.

I was more intending to refer to that new Necron "Construct" that they showed at WarhammerFest 2018. It looks like a giant Triarch Stalker, but even more awesome
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/773985885934699100/

It would be cool to build something like it, based of pictures released, though the Stalker legs are likely not the right scale.

I'm getting back into 40k after dropping out of early 6th, and decided to pull my Necrons out of retirement--maybe also because they're the only army I have not currently sitting in storage covered in spiders. Flicking through the codex and a few online posts and places like 1d4chan, I've dropped a significant sum of money on Destroyers because they seem like a safe bet until they get nerfed, but because I'm not made of cash or room to put new models, I'm going to have to stick with what I already have to support them.

What I've got incoming Destroyer-wise are 15 Destroyers--3 to be made into HDs for implantation into squads or use separately--and a Destroyer Lord, which raised a few eyebrows and comments of "that's too many destroyers" when I made the order in-store. So that raises my first question: was that BS? From what I've seen so far, the general consensus is that 2 squads of Destroyers--with or without implanted HDs--is considered fairly normal for 8thCrons. I'll likely be playing 1500pts, so was it in reference to that? Or are 2 squads at 1500 still fairly alright? Would I be better off canning one of the units--and probably the Destroyer Lord, at that point--altogether and investing in something like DDAs? I'll be honest and say that I'm really not a fan of the Ghost Ark/DDA model, so I've been loath to actually source any, but again reading through various things it feels more and more like the DDA is practically mandatory if you want to be harming heavier vehicles, with the 1-shot Heavy Destroyers simply not cutting enough mustard, being fielded either one at a time with regular Destroyers, or in high-priority groups of just 3, and especially if they roll poorly with damage.

So, second question: am I irredeemably boned if I don't take DDAs? As much as winning is nice--and I somehow never lost a game with the newfluff 5th/6th codex, a record I doubt I'll ever meet again--I'd rather it not be a matter of having to use units I'm not fond of if I want any chance of anything more than a decently well-fought loss whenever I play.
There's also a personal matter of not touching any fliers or any of these newer, huge and expensive kits. My Eldar won't be getting any Wraithknights, my Tau won't be getting any Riptides or Stormsurges, my Necrons won't be getting any Tesseract Vaults or whatnot. Personally, I feel they've no place in regular 40k, Knights included. This is purely a personal grievance, though, and I'm not looking to try and criticise the game if it means I'm hamstringing myself slightly; after all, it's my own choice, so I'll bear that. So I suppose there's a 2a question of: are Necron fliers/big expensive models similar to DDAs in being almost too good to ignore? I've heard of triple Vault armies, but outside of those, I've seen little mention of our super-heavies or fliers, so I'm hoping that I'm not gimping my Necrons as much as I might be gimping something like my Tau.

The third matter is one of troops. I love Immortals, tesla specifically. Not just their rules, but also the concept and the models are quite nice, too. Warriors, however? Not so much. I've got a *few* that haven't fallen apart and lost vital bits over the past few years, and I've got 12 more incoming from eBay soon, so I might be able to field one squad of 20 if I have to--and if they stay together; I swear they repel plastic glue, no other plastic model I've made falls apart so easily--but I really want to find a place for Immortals more than Warriors. My worry is that, by the end, I'll be fielding an army made up of nothing, or very little, I actually *like* in the name of trying not to feel like I'm wasting my time playing the game. If they all stay together, I can field about 26 Immortals; 16 Tesla, and 10 unbuilt. I figure if I'm going to be using Destroyers, I might as well go HAM on the Teslammortals? Or should I still build some as Gauss for the purpose of versatility in future lists? As much as I like tesla, I feel like fielding the 2-3 Annihilation Barges I can bring as well as Tesla Immortals would be overkill, which segues nicely into my fourth issue.

It's safe to say that most of what I have leftover from 5th/6th isn't looking... fantastic in 8th. Aside from my Immortals and Warriors, I have a handful of Crypteks I can no longer use most of; two Overlords--though I've got a newer, more unique one arriving soon, so I can probably relegate those to Lords easily enough--a Triarch Stalker with a Heat Ray, though if I can find the sprue I might be able to make the Heavy Gauss Cannon and use it more like a Necron markerlight, which feels like its only real use; some Scarabs, which I'm already planning to use in an Outrider detachment with the Destroyers I bought and still seem fairly useful, even if only for area denial or tying--/blowing, if I want to spend CP on it--something up; 2 Canoptek Spyders, which I gather are ever so slightly less useful than a chocolate teapot in the current codex; and 3 AB/CCBs, of which the ABs seem to have been nerfed a little, but no idea about the CCB. I've no Wraiths--partially because I was already getting flak for using Necrons back then in the first place, even without any croissants, and adding a buttload of Wraiths wouldn't have made me any friends--no Tomb Blades... Basically, anything that's still good, I don't have.

From what I can tell, the CCB is only worth taking if you give it the Lightning Field to make up for its abysmal T6 W8 and Quantum Shielding being worth absolutely nothing on a vehicle most likely to be taken out by 1/D2/D3 damage weapons; its only saving grace statswise being that it doesn't lose combat effectiveness with damage. So that limits it to one CCB in the army at any time, unless you feel like throwing away the best part of 200pts. Annihilation Barges seem alright, if a little brittle for only having 24" range--especially next to something like an Armiger Helverin, which can safely sit at 60" and tear stuff apart, while still having better across the board stats--but fulfil the same role as Teslammortals or Tesla Blades, just with S7, and I feel like even with just S5, Immortals/Tomb Blades are still the better investment, almost purely because an AB is fragile. Anyone with actual experience of these in 8th is welcome to correct me, though, as this is purely just me looking at things right now. Is there anything worth salvaging from all that, besides the scarabs and maybe a single CCB?

Now for my final question is: are Lords a good investment? I'd say I could reasonably keep 1-2 units of Tesla Immortals within 6" for the re-rolls to wound, but the investment is worth another 1 and a half Destroyers, or close to another 5 Immortals. The re-roll looks nice on paper, and maybe more worth it if using max-strength Immortals to take as much advantage of Telsa as possible, but I'm not sure about the cost effectiveness of re-rolling 1s to wound vs simply having a potential 5-15 more hits as well as more bodies to have to shoot through. And although I said that was final question, I've got one, very final one: are MSU Immortals better than full-strength at 1500pts? Or are full-strength units still just about tough enough to withstand shooting at that level? I get MSU utility at 1750+, and how full-strength is still useful around 1000-1250, but 1500 feels like a bit more of a grey area.

So yeah, if you managed to get through all that without having an aynuerism then congrats, because I'm not sure I got through writing it all unscathed

Armies I might face are fairly varied, but I do know there are a good few pure Knight players around, which I gather I might as well just throw whatever models I have at the time at for all the good making a cohesive list would do.

@Avatar 720
Destroyers are excellent, a good investment. At 1500, 1 6 man squad is probably good for a casual game, just deploy them smart to keep them killing. Extermination Protocols lets them reliably perform anti-tank duties. However, they basically have to drop in and eliminate a key target, and you need to hope they survive the return fire to reliably get good value out of them.

DDAs are not a must, but they are quite good. Trust me. I hate that model too, but having one is not likely going to backfire on you. Our superheavies are good, but expensive forgeworld models, but otherwise our flyers are really, really bad right now since they lack the transport rules, and are wildly overpriced for their firepower (lack thereof). If you are going to bring a vehicle, the DDA is the best one.

3x10 Tesla Immortals is the core of 90% of my necron lists, usually centered around an OL with Immortal Pride to make them fearless, and a cryptek to give them a 5++ save, and better RP. They kick butt with MWBD.

Triarch Stalkers are in a weird place since they don't benefit from dynasty codes for some reason, suggest you pass.

The CCB IMO is an overpriced hunk of junk. Big fire magnet, which won't stay alive without a lightning field. Some folks swear by the mephrit voltaic staff sniper barge, and some people turn them into close combat threats with Novohk, but I don't like them.

Annihilation barges would be good if their shots did d2 or d3 damage, but at flat 1 dmg, I find them underwhelming. YMMV.

Lords seem a good investment to me for 3x10 immortals. I usually have a cryptek, OL, and lord all in range to buff all 3 squads in the center, and they tend to dominate infantry exchanges.

Vs knights....you need a pylon to have a chance IMO. We're pretty weak vs them. The math isn't very good on that front.

Destroyers, wraiths, DDAs, immortals, warriors, overlords, crypteks, lords, tomb blades, scarabs, t. vaults, gauss pylons are the best units necrons have in 8th . The first post in this thread has a list which units are good and which arent.

iGuy91 wrote:@Avatar 720
Destroyers are excellent, a good investment. At 1500, 1 6 man squad is probably good for a casual game, just deploy them smart to keep them killing. Extermination Protocols lets them reliably perform anti-tank duties. However, they basically have to drop in and eliminate a key target, and you need to hope they survive the return fire to reliably get good value out of them.

DDAs are not a must, but they are quite good. Trust me. I hate that model too, but having one is not likely going to backfire on you. Our superheavies are good, but expensive forgeworld models, but otherwise our flyers are really, really bad right now since they lack the transport rules, and are wildly overpriced for their firepower (lack thereof). If you are going to bring a vehicle, the DDA is the best one.

3x10 Tesla Immortals is the core of 90% of my necron lists, usually centered around an OL with Immortal Pride to make them fearless, and a cryptek to give them a 5++ save, and better RP. They kick butt with MWBD.

Triarch Stalkers are in a weird place since they don't benefit from dynasty codes for some reason, suggest you pass.

The CCB IMO is an overpriced hunk of junk. Big fire magnet, which won't stay alive without a lightning field. Some folks swear by the mephrit voltaic staff sniper barge, and some people turn them into close combat threats with Novohk, but I don't like them.

Annihilation barges would be good if their shots did d2 or d3 damage, but at flat 1 dmg, I find them underwhelming. YMMV.

Lords seem a good investment to me for 3x10 immortals. I usually have a cryptek, OL, and lord all in range to buff all 3 squads in the center, and they tend to dominate infantry exchanges.

Vs knights....you need a pylon to have a chance IMO. We're pretty weak vs them. The math isn't very good on that front.

Thanks for the in-depth reply.

I've tried slotting a DDA or two into various lists, but I keep coming back to the same one:


I've tried other combinations using 1 DDA, but Necrons have so comparatively few options that worked with the points left over, especially if I didn't want to start remvoing Immortals, that it was difficult to justify purchasing anything other than a second DDA. The only choice left is Dynasty. Mephrit I feel would be better from the armies I've seen and know at my local store, but Nihilak wouldn't be terrible if I could convince my opponent to come to me, and since the DDAs want to stay still anyway Nihilak seems like the best choice for them; Mephrit would be the dictionary definition of overkill. I'd have liked to get the DDAs into a Nihilak detachment to keep the Tesla Mephrit, but at this points level it's just not doable unless I take one of them, two solo HDs, and a cheap Lord, at which point I think I'd still rather have 2 DDAs in the Battalion, even if they're not Nihilak. Veil of Darkness is there because it feels like the best generic artefact, though could swap for Timesplinter if I go Nihilak across the board. Being able to jump himself and a unit, especially in the late-game for objective-grabbing or to threaten something, just feels too useful to pass up, though.

The first list I actually built is one I keep looking back to, too, not necessarily because I think it's particularly good, but I think it might be fun to use:


The only big bit of uncertainty I have here is whether or not dropping a Destroyer for the Scarabs so I can get some cheap deep-strike area denial and chaff plus another command point is actually worth it. Since both detachments are Mephrit there's no harm in combining them and maxing out one of the Destroyers--and also giving the Lord a Voidblade, because what else is there to use 4 points on? Since I've never played a game of 8th before, though, and I've no idea how valuable command points are for Necrons, it's not something I can really decide on. Having that extra CP left for a re-roll somewhere might be nice, or I might find myself finishing every game with 2-3 esentially left over anyway. The set-up is definitely not set in stone in that regard. General plan would be to fly the Destroyers, D. Lord, and Cryptek around being a pain the arse, while the Immortals move up. The Cryptek is solely there for the +1 RP on the Destroyers, and I'm more than willing to throw the D. Lord into combat to tie something up. Restoring D3 wounds at the start of every turn could make for a very extended melee if I wanted it to, and I can Fly out if I don't. I dunno, Destroyer Lords have always seemed fun to me, even if not particularly great.

The main issue with this list, though, is AT. In that there... isn't any. I don't really rate 2 Heavy Destroyer shots very highly, and I'll be relying on Extermination Protocols and hoping for 5s against a good lot of things. I suppose even the Tesla will be looking for 5s against things like Knights when a lot of other armies' troops will be looking for 6s, so it's not -horrible-, but it's certainly not exactly enviable, either. But it is the list I think I might have the most fun losing playing with, while the DDA one probably gives me the best chance of meeting all comers. (And transporting; having to lug two DDAs about would require a tray the size of an entire KR case. For two models. )

First list, if you remove the lord and some immortals you can add a third DDA. No res. orb, not worth it. Maybe drop 1-2 immortals from every unit for some scarabs ?



Second list, always max units if possible. It gives the unit a better chance of surviving and reanimating next turn. You cant reanimate a unit which is completely destroyed. Max one unit of destroyers and use the rest of the points for scarabs, or a cryptek. I dont think mephrit is good for tesla immortals. You dont want your shooty units to be within 12" from the enemy. Next turn he will charge you and shut down all your gun fire.

I'm getting mixed messages, here, both re: Lords, and re: maxing units.

You and iGuy seem to disagree on the Lord, but you seem to have contradicted yourself on maxing units, considering you suggest trimming the Immortals down. I'm not quite sure I understand. Why is it okay to drop some Immortals, but being a single Destroyer short is worth dumping the entire unit?

As for Mephrit and Tesla utility, every other dynasty bar Nihilak is useless for it, and Nihilak requires you to be able to sit still and fire with impunity. Personally, I feel like Mephrit is the most flexible, even if I'd have to get dangerously close to see much benefit. That said, overwatch from Tesla isn't the worst thing, and combined with the -1AP from Mephrit makes it even more dangerous.

A third DDA isn't happening, though. I don't really even want to take 2, there's just nothing else I can take once I've picked the first.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

You and iGuy seem to disagree on the Lord, but you seem to have contradicted yourself on maxing units, considering you suggest trimming the Immortals down. I'm not quite sure I understand. Why is it okay to drop some Immortals, but being a single Destroyer short is worth dumping the entire unit?

In order to max units you have to get the points from somewhere, i think the lord is the weakest unit of the three. Trimming one immortal from each unit is a compromise, to get some scarabs. And sorry for the destroyer, i didnt see the heavy destroyer, i counted only 4.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

As for Mephrit and Tesla utility, every other dynasty bar Nihilak is useless for it, and Nihilak requires you to be able to sit still and fire with impunity. Personally, I feel like Mephrit is the most flexible, even if I'd have to get dangerously close to see much benefit. That said, overwatch from Tesla isn't the worst thing, and combined with the -1AP from Mephrit makes it even more dangerous.

With sautekh, MWBD and MD you get tesla to explode on 4+. 20 tesla immortals with that combo did 61 hits for me.

 p5freak wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

You and iGuy seem to disagree on the Lord, but you seem to have contradicted yourself on maxing units, considering you suggest trimming the Immortals down. I'm not quite sure I understand. Why is it okay to drop some Immortals, but being a single Destroyer short is worth dumping the entire unit?

In order to max units you have to get the points from somewhere, i think the lord is the weakest unit of the three. Trimming one immortal from each unit is a compromise, to get some scarabs. And sorry for the destroyer, i didnt see the heavy destroyer, i counted only 4.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

As for Mephrit and Tesla utility, every other dynasty bar Nihilak is useless for it, and Nihilak requires you to be able to sit still and fire with impunity. Personally, I feel like Mephrit is the most flexible, even if I'd have to get dangerously close to see much benefit. That said, overwatch from Tesla isn't the worst thing, and combined with the -1AP from Mephrit makes it even more dangerous.

With sautekh, MWBD and MD you get tesla to explode on 4+. 20 tesla immortals with that combo did 61 hits for me.

That's well above average though (37)

With MD on top of MWBD the immortals no longer get any benefit to their BS which is already maxed out from the first +1, it's only the Tesla bonus. It's probably smarter to spread the +1 around, or have immortals with +1 shooting at other targets than the MD target, etc

torblind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

You and iGuy seem to disagree on the Lord, but you seem to have contradicted yourself on maxing units, considering you suggest trimming the Immortals down. I'm not quite sure I understand. Why is it okay to drop some Immortals, but being a single Destroyer short is worth dumping the entire unit?

In order to max units you have to get the points from somewhere, i think the lord is the weakest unit of the three. Trimming one immortal from each unit is a compromise, to get some scarabs. And sorry for the destroyer, i didnt see the heavy destroyer, i counted only 4.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

As for Mephrit and Tesla utility, every other dynasty bar Nihilak is useless for it, and Nihilak requires you to be able to sit still and fire with impunity. Personally, I feel like Mephrit is the most flexible, even if I'd have to get dangerously close to see much benefit. That said, overwatch from Tesla isn't the worst thing, and combined with the -1AP from Mephrit makes it even more dangerous.

With sautekh, MWBD and MD you get tesla to explode on 4+. 20 tesla immortals with that combo did 61 hits for me.

That's well above average though (37)

With MD on top of MWBD the immortals no longer get any benefit to their BS which is already maxed out from the first +1, it's only the Tesla bonus. It's probably smarter to spread the +1 around, or have immortals with +1 shooting at other targets than the MD target, etc

yea, the stack of MD and MWBD on the Immortals actually only good if you are shooting fully buffed Magnus or shooting that Harlequin transport.

I think my main concern with MD is the cost; 2 points out of a pot of 8/9 feels quite dear, especially when I'll be wanting Extermination Protocols whenever my Destroyers are shooting, and probably a command re-roll or two for emergencies. If my Warlord was Hyperlogical then maybe I'd go for it, but Immortal Pride for not having to worry about morale and a free DtW attempt feels too good to pass up.

That said, I've mentioned not having any experience with how precious CPs are, so I don't know if the 2CP cost of MD would be acceptable regardless.

CPs are precious, and HS is one of the best WLT we have. I wouldnt bother with immortal pride on a 10 model unit. Keep in mind that everything that has the sautekh dynasty gets +1 to hit with MD, that could be your entire army.

 p5freak wrote:
CPs are precious, and HS is one of the best WLT we have. I wouldnt bother with immortal pride on a 10 model unit. Keep in mind that everything that has the sautekh dynasty gets +1 to hit with MD, that could be your entire army.

It gets +1 to hit a specific target. So in its nature its for taking down priority targets. Those probably won't come around too often.

 p5freak wrote:
CPs are precious, and HS is one of the best WLT we have. I wouldnt bother with immortal pride on a 10 model unit. Keep in mind that everything that has the sautekh dynasty gets +1 to hit with MD, that could be your entire army.

Are you sure? Being able to ignore morale after losing most of a squad to shooting seems pretty good to me, if it means not having to risk losing the last few models to a failed morale check. I could see the reasoning at higher points levels or with MSU, where morale might never come into it, but like I mentioned in my first post in the thread, I'm not sure if 1500 would necessarily allow for enough firepower to easily wipe 10 potentially Chrono'ed Immortals in one shooting phase without needing too many units dedicated to it.

If it was a choice between 1/3 of a chance of saving CP from MD but risking losing the units that would best benefit from it, or having fewer CP to use but a better chance of units being alive to use it, I'm tempted to go for the latter.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
CPs are precious, and HS is one of the best WLT we have. I wouldnt bother with immortal pride on a 10 model unit. Keep in mind that everything that has the sautekh dynasty gets +1 to hit with MD, that could be your entire army.

Are you sure? Being able to ignore morale after losing most of a squad to shooting seems pretty good to me, if it means not having to risk losing the last few models to a failed morale check. I could see the reasoning at higher points levels or with MSU, where morale might never come into it, but like I mentioned in my first post in the thread, I'm not sure if 1500 would necessarily allow for enough firepower to easily wipe 10 potentially Chrono'ed Immortals in one shooting phase without needing too many units dedicated to it.

If it was a choice between 1/3 of a chance of saving CP from MD but risking losing the units that would best benefit from it, or having fewer CP to use but a better chance of units being alive to use it, I'm tempted to go for the latter.

2CP for a morale save are free with every 6 spent CPs with HS.
Once you need to save morale twice (4CP total spent) then you are likely at a strictly numerical disadvantage with HS, as you would need to spend 12CP to have 4CP extra.

However if you are still in the game after two enemy rounds of shooting and melee, well then its an interesting game. If you are on the verge of turning the tide and win, then bringing back a unit from failed morale and tons of RP dice surely is well worth 2CP regardless of how many you started with or have left. And once you tip the battle in your favor, having ±1CP left probably is of less importance starting turn 3.

So yeah, inconclusive answers and foggy formulations. Using HS to produce extra CP for morale, versus autopassing morale (if within range) but having less CP total, its probably not what decides the outcome.

I started taking Immortal Pride because I don't use Sautekh (that's another discussion for elsewhere).

I've only got Destroyers and Immortals to benefit from the morale.

But in practice, that's not why I now find it so good. Even a single Deny can ruin armies that were counting on their Psykers.

How does a 6 model unit of destroyers benefit from immortal pride ? With only one left there is a 16,7% chance that they fail morale, on a roll of 6.

I play msu sautekh batt, neprek out and have no need for immortal pride(though i wish i could add it for the deny).

If you play MSU then hyperlogical is the best WLT imo.