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mhalko1 wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/b3tsy4/as_requested_lvo_performance_by_faction/

So there was a second post from the same user who created a breakdown to account for soup or combo lists and also by mono codex. Overall Nids didn't end up as bad as the first graph made it seem. They may have had a few players who did worse but their average as a whole they were mid tier for mono codex. They even had some outliers do a lot better than the majority of the tyranid players. chaos was way more swingy than nids and GK well, theyre GK

Neither of those charts should be really taken as measure of anything. The first one for obvious reason. The second one, well that is a list of the 20 MOST COMMON faction combinations for starters, so that excludes a lot of things. Hence why Marines for example are on there twice, but Harlequins don't even appear. It's a weird chart that isn't really a great place to draw any direct conclusions of anything. Not that I disagree or agree with anything up there, I just don't think it's an accurate measure.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Wouldn't call it cheap. Every model has at least 3 wounds. You could definitely take 3 hive tyrants and get psychic support and keep T7. It's also an easier to build army model wise, as I don't know anyone with 20 warriors, but I'd say the list I posted is more IMPRESSIVE looking on the table, and far more durable againgst mortal wound spam, which is a thing.

Well I have 37 warriors but only 6 carnifex. Gotta pump those numbers up, these are rookie numbers! Can't even play the list I suggested.

I love warriors, but I would play them Leviathan rather than Kraken. 6+++ does wonders against reapers and their 3 wound guns.

I am curious as to how to fight a semi mechanized/ semi horde ork list.

Asking for my brother as I am the Ork player he plays. I have just decimated his list the last 2 games (turn 2 concede). Didn't know what he could do to help even the odds.

mhalko1 wrote:
I am curious as to how to fight a semi mechanized/ semi horde ork list.

Asking for my brother as I am the Ork player he plays. I have just decimated his list the last 2 games (turn 2 concede). Didn't know what he could do to help even the odds.

What does your brother run in his list?

The first thing that jumps to mind is using Tyrannofexes with Acid Spray. It's an 18" flamer that starts at S7 AP-1 and D3 damage per roll; plus it gets to double-tap if the Tyrannofex hasn't moved that turn. Seems like a pretty decent weapon to use against both Ork Hordes and their light vehicles.

The classic Dakkafex should also help him out with 24 S6 shots per turn, usually hitting on 3+ when he takes Enhanced Senses.

Also, there's the Trygon + 30 Termagaunts with Devourers combo. Stash them in reserve and then on Turn 2, the Trygon pops up and delivers the Termagaunts. There's a stratagem that allows Tryranid infantry to shoot twice so that's 180 S4 shots headed towards your Boyz, re-rolling 1's to hit. Mathematically speaking, that's about 55 saves he'd force one of your mobs to make.

 orchewer wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:
I am curious as to how to fight a semi mechanized/ semi horde ork list.

Asking for my brother as I am the Ork player he plays. I have just decimated his list the last 2 games (turn 2 concede). Didn't know what he could do to help even the odds.

What does your brother run in his list?

The first thing that jumps to mind is using Tyrannofexes with Acid Spray. It's an 18" flamer that starts at S7 AP-1 and D3 damage per roll; plus it gets to double-tap if the Tyrannofex hasn't moved that turn. Seems like a pretty decent weapon to use against both Ork Hordes and their light vehicles.

The classic Dakkafex should also help him out with 24 S6 shots per turn, usually hitting on 3+ when he takes Enhanced Senses.

Also, there's the Trygon + 30 Termagaunts with Devourers combo. Stash them in reserve and then on Turn 2, the Trygon pops up and delivers the Termagaunts. There's a stratagem that allows Tryranid infantry to shoot twice so that's 180 S4 shots headed towards your Boyz, re-rolling 1's to hit. Mathematically speaking, that's about 55 saves he'd force one of your mobs to make.

He he has the trygon devourer combo. runs a couple of carnifexes, swarmlord, neurothrope, genestealers venomthropes. But i have been 1 shotting the carnifexes with high damage weapons.

mhalko1 wrote:
I am curious as to how to fight a semi mechanized/ semi horde ork list.

Asking for my brother as I am the Ork player he plays. I have just decimated his list the last 2 games (turn 2 concede). Didn't know what he could do to help even the odds.

My main opponent these days runs Orks. I do not get many games in, but they are veyr funn. Usualy Nids are good in CC, but not here. Also, the vehicles he has are T8, that can be a pain and though in CC.

Also, the boys with da jump, and the regroup startagem is hard.

I would sugets having some good ranged anti tank. Have some creening units for da jump. Flyrants are great, and he hates them. The mobilaty also helps.

All in all it is a great match.

All good advice! The only thing I'd add is adding in every -1 to hit he can, dropping from 5+ to 6+ really hoses ork shooty.

Hi,
I would like to jump into nids and have the opportunity to buy this lot:

2 x Tyygons

1 x Morloc

1 x Broodlord

1 x Lictor

3 x Converted Raveners

2 x Zoanthropes

1 x Converted Doom of Malentai or Zoanthrope Champion

6 x Tyranid Warriors plus 1 Champion/Leader

6 x Genestealers with biomorph enhancements on wonderful bases depicting imperial ruins

8 x Genestealers

14 x Bases of Ripper Swarms

18 x Termagants with devourers

74 x Termagants with Spine Fists

1 x Custom Built Parasite of Motrex

2 x Termagant markers for burrowing units

3 x Scratch built Birthing Pods


Is it possible to build a decent 2k list with this army?

Thnaks a lot !

At a very rough estimate, excluding the birthing pods you've got about 1700 points there.
The scratch built birthing pods, I don't really know about those. You could possibly use them as tyrannocytes (tyranid drop pods) I guess. Those things start at about 100 points, and go way up depending on what you arm them with. They're also not spectacularly useful. You already have a couple of trygons to use to deepstrike infantry with, and don't have anything else really worth putting in them.

You've got a pretty good core of an army. But I'd say it needs to be rounded out a bit to reach 2k.

So in about a month, I'll be participating in my first ever GT! I'm pretty excited for this event since it's been a long-time dream to attend a large 40K tournament that's not run out of my FLGS. I'm not gunning for a Top-10 finish or anything, simply looking for some enjoyable and memorable games with an army list that's unique and fun to play.

With that being said, my list is below. It is, what I would consider to be, solidly "semi-competitive". My goal for this list was to essentially just run big, scary monsters which means that I sacrificed some more competitive options for the sake of fluff and theme. For example, no Hive Guard - they are infantry and therefore have no place in my army. Also, no Devilguants popping up with my Trygons because, they are infantry. Same with Genestealers getting slingshotted up the field by my Swarmlord. With the exception of a unit of spore mines, I am running pure, organic, locally-grown monsters.

However, I am still a new Tyranid player, so I wanted to pick the brains of the veterans out there for some more tactical advice. Things like, should my Flyrants be set up on the field or in deep strike? What psychic powers should I be taking and how distributed should they be? If I face a Knight army, how do I make it past Turn 2? etc. I am well beyond the "switching out units" part of army building and looking more at the "use what I have" part of army building.

Thanks for any and all advice!

Hive Fleet: Behemoth
Total Points: 2000 on the nose
Total Command Points: 5
Total Units to Deploy: 11

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
1) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bone Sword, Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
- Relic: Reaper of Obliterax
- Warlord Trait: Monstrous Hunger (Behemoth Trait)

2) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
2) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
3) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
1) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons
2) The Swarmlord

FAST ATTACK
1) 3x Spore Mines

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxinspike
2) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxinspike
3) Trygon Prime: Adrenal Glands, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

Oh my. Trygons are gonne die hard. Probably after the swarmlord.

But oh well. The list is the list.

Do you know what the missions are? Playing the missions is key. Knights can kill you all day, it does not matter as long as you winn the mission.

I would also advice you to learn to play fast. This includes moving figures and rolling dice, knowing the rules etc. But the hardest desissions for you will also eat up a lot of time. So get some games in with your army beforehand.

If you face long ranged firepower (and you will) they will kill your units by prioraties. That probably means the flyrants and swarmlord will die as they are high threat targets. Since they will be focused the tyranofexes will be ignored. (T8 3+ save.) Trygons die easy to power fist weapons. But they are safer in close combat then not, as they can not be shot then.

Use the swarmlord while he is alive to reach high prioraty targets with flyrants and trygons.

I struggle to kill Plaguebearers, how is everyone dealing with them?

Genestealers usually. The thing is you cant do what you normally do with the stealers.


Most competitive Death guard players stick their PM's in a rhino at the start of the game until they think they can get out and grenade something to death.

Kill their screens and then have a squad of genestealers surround the rhino and take it out, killing all of them at once when they cant disembark. Most units have a hard time completely wrapping a vehicle properly to do so, but genestealers can.

Note that you have to place your stealers about .9" (or have 2 layers) away from the rhino and all the way around it to take out the squad of plagebearers when it goes down.

 orchewer wrote:
So in about a month, I'll be participating in my first ever GT! I'm pretty excited for this event since it's been a long-time dream to attend a large 40K tournament that's not run out of my FLGS. I'm not gunning for a Top-10 finish or anything, simply looking for some enjoyable and memorable games with an army list that's unique and fun to play.

With that being said, my list is below. It is, what I would consider to be, solidly "semi-competitive". My goal for this list was to essentially just run big, scary monsters which means that I sacrificed some more competitive options for the sake of fluff and theme. For example, no Hive Guard - they are infantry and therefore have no place in my army. Also, no Devilguants popping up with my Trygons because, they are infantry. Same with Genestealers getting slingshotted up the field by my Swarmlord. With the exception of a unit of spore mines, I am running pure, organic, locally-grown monsters.

However, I am still a new Tyranid player, so I wanted to pick the brains of the veterans out there for some more tactical advice. Things like, should my Flyrants be set up on the field or in deep strike? What psychic powers should I be taking and how distributed should they be? If I face a Knight army, how do I make it past Turn 2? etc. I am well beyond the "switching out units" part of army building and looking more at the "use what I have" part of army building.

Thanks for any and all advice!

Hive Fleet: Behemoth
Total Points: 2000 on the nose
Total Command Points: 5
Total Units to Deploy: 11

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
1) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bone Sword, Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
- Relic: Reaper of Obliterax
- Warlord Trait: Monstrous Hunger (Behemoth Trait)

2) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
2) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
3) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
1) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons
2) The Swarmlord

FAST ATTACK
1) 3x Spore Mines

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxinspike
2) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxinspike
3) Trygon Prime: Adrenal Glands, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

Do you know who's a monster? A Carnifex. Good ol' carnifex with 2x talons, tusks, adrenal glands, bone mace and spore cysts. Has -1 to be hit inherently, it has 6 attacks on the charge +1 from the tail, can inflict mortal wounds on charge and is cheap as heck. You can play 10 of them in a list (9 + old one eye) and still have about 900 pts more to put more monsters if you want. Also running your tyrants on the ground instead of wings saves you almost 50 pts per guy, which could be another tyrant. I mean a ground tyrant with a venom cannon and rending claws is what, 160 pts?

You could play 3 Hive Tyrants, Old One Eye, 9 carnifex and 3 Trygons or Toxicrenes for maximum meat.

I don't feel that semi-competitive is a good term for a list without a single obsec unit or screen, with the entire list being 10 models. That's thoroughly a fluff list imo.

If you are going to do pure MC, I cosign the above - max out on cheap Carnifexes at least.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Genestealers usually. The thing is you cant do what you normally do with the stealers.


Most competitive Death guard players stick their PM's in a rhino at the start of the game until they think they can get out and grenade something to death.

Kill their screens and then have a squad of genestealers surround the rhino and take it out, killing all of them at once when they cant disembark. Most units have a hard time completely wrapping a vehicle properly to do so, but genestealers can.

Note that you have to place your stealers about .9" (or have 2 layers) away from the rhino and all the way around it to take out the squad of plagebearers when it goes down.

Plaguebearers cant go into a rhino. They are 30 Guys with t4 5++,5+++ and above 20 with -1. So often 1 der 2 30 man Units with -1 and 30 with -2.

Genestealer do against the -2 6 Kills in average. Not that great?

If you kill the Plaguebearer's support Heralds, their damage output drops dramatically. As for actually killing them...

Heck if I know how Nids can handle that. I play Bearers in my daemon list, and it's usually overwhelming numbers of shots that does them in-like Aggressors.

Edit: Although some math...

Each Stealer should have 4 attacks.
That's 2 hits per Stealer against the -1 unit (don't charge the -2), except you reroll ones, giving you one extra hit per 3 Stealers.
Every 2 hits is a wound.
Every 2.25 wounds is a dead Bearer.
Multiply it all out, and you get...
Slightly less than 8 attacks to kill a Bearer. Or, for every two Stealers in combat, you can kill one Bearer.

 orchewer wrote:
So in about a month, I'll be participating in my first ever GT! I'm pretty excited for this event since it's been a long-time dream to attend a large 40K tournament that's not run out of my FLGS. I'm not gunning for a Top-10 finish or anything, simply looking for some enjoyable and memorable games with an army list that's unique and fun to play.

With that being said, my list is below. It is, what I would consider to be, solidly "semi-competitive". My goal for this list was to essentially just run big, scary monsters which means that I sacrificed some more competitive options for the sake of fluff and theme. For example, no Hive Guard - they are infantry and therefore have no place in my army. Also, no Devilguants popping up with my Trygons because, they are infantry. Same with Genestealers getting slingshotted up the field by my Swarmlord. With the exception of a unit of spore mines, I am running pure, organic, locally-grown monsters.

However, I am still a new Tyranid player, so I wanted to pick the brains of the veterans out there for some more tactical advice. Things like, should my Flyrants be set up on the field or in deep strike? What psychic powers should I be taking and how distributed should they be? If I face a Knight army, how do I make it past Turn 2? etc. I am well beyond the "switching out units" part of army building and looking more at the "use what I have" part of army building.

Thanks for any and all advice!

Hive Fleet: Behemoth
Total Points: 2000 on the nose
Total Command Points: 5
Total Units to Deploy: 11

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
1) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bone Sword, Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
- Relic: Reaper of Obliterax
- Warlord Trait: Monstrous Hunger (Behemoth Trait)

2) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
2) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
3) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
1) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons
2) The Swarmlord

FAST ATTACK
1) 3x Spore Mines

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxinspike
2) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxinspike
3) Trygon Prime: Adrenal Glands, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

Your gonna get tabled very quickly.
Knights can pop 2 maybe even 3 MC a turn. You have no troops for objective secured. Kraken would be better than behemoth with flyrants.
This is a fluff list, but in an ITC your gonna hurt. YOu give up headhunter and big game hunter secondaries very easily as well.

 Dynas wrote:

 orchewer wrote:
So in about a month, I'll be participating in my first ever GT! I'm pretty excited for this event since it's been a long-time dream to attend a large 40K tournament that's not run out of my FLGS. I'm not gunning for a Top-10 finish or anything, simply looking for some enjoyable and memorable games with an army list that's unique and fun to play.

With that being said, my list is below. It is, what I would consider to be, solidly "semi-competitive". My goal for this list was to essentially just run big, scary monsters which means that I sacrificed some more competitive options for the sake of fluff and theme. For example, no Hive Guard - they are infantry and therefore have no place in my army. Also, no Devilguants popping up with my Trygons because, they are infantry. Same with Genestealers getting slingshotted up the field by my Swarmlord. With the exception of a unit of spore mines, I am running pure, organic, locally-grown monsters.

However, I am still a new Tyranid player, so I wanted to pick the brains of the veterans out there for some more tactical advice. Things like, should my Flyrants be set up on the field or in deep strike? What psychic powers should I be taking and how distributed should they be? If I face a Knight army, how do I make it past Turn 2? etc. I am well beyond the "switching out units" part of army building and looking more at the "use what I have" part of army building.

Thanks for any and all advice!

Hive Fleet: Behemoth
Total Points: 2000 on the nose
Total Command Points: 5
Total Units to Deploy: 11

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
1) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Monstrous Bone Sword, Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
- Relic: Reaper of Obliterax
- Warlord Trait: Monstrous Hunger (Behemoth Trait)

2) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
2) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo
3) Tyrannofex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
1) Hive Tyrant with Wings: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons
2) The Swarmlord

FAST ATTACK
1) 3x Spore Mines

HEAVY SUPPORT
1) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxinspike
2) Trygon: Adrenal Glands, 3x Monstrous Scything Talons, Toxinspike
3) Trygon Prime: Adrenal Glands, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

Your gonna get tabled very quickly.
Knights can pop 2 maybe even 3 MC a turn. You have no troops for objective secured. Kraken would be better than behemoth with flyrants.
This is a fluff list, but in an ITC your gonna hurt. YOu give up headhunter and big game hunter secondaries very easily as well.

I think that everyone will enjoy playing you, but you're basically handicapping yourself ...

You've got to keep stuff alive T1 and then charge in all 3 trygons and 3 flyrants T2. LOS blocking, malanthrope seem to be your best chance, but you seem to be wholly reliant on the tyrannofexes to kill screens for you so you can charge the units you need to charge and not just chaff. I would put more shooting on the flyrants to help with this. I don't think you will have space to DS the trygons and flyrants where you want as that's a huge footprint that's easily countered, so flyrants will likely have to start on the table. Keep in range of a malanthrope T1 and then go for broke T2 ...

I'm trying to create a competitive 1600 point list and I'm conflicted about things I want to run vs things I should run. Like biovores. Can someone please help me create a decent list. Heres what I have to work with.
3 neurothropes/ zoanthropes
3 Venomthropes
Flyrant
Broodlord
24 genestealers
24 termagaunts
6 hive guard
1 mawloc/trygon/trygon prime
6 ripper swarms
2 carnifex
2 Tyranofex
The red terror

Magus
Primus
Abomarrant
And 5 abbarents

These can all be ran with any weapons available to them as my group does make you play with what is equipped on the model. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated and am considering buying 3 biovores if it would be a better option then some of the stuff I have

Just got back from Dallas Open. There was only 1 Tyranid List out of 123 players. About 6 GSC list though. Nids are definitely in a poor place at the moment do to the prevalence of knights.

 Dynas wrote:
Just got back from Dallas Open. There was only 1 Tyranid List out of 123 players. About 6 GSC list though. Nids are definitely in a poor place at the moment do to the prevalence of knights.

I tried to be Nid number 2, but I wasn't able to convince my boss to give me a second weekend off in a row :( .

Knights and the superheavies people take to counter them really hurt us. I feel like that in order to handle the Knights/superheavies, we are effectively locked into taking two units of Shock Cannon Hive Guard and some Raveners to deliver them. I have had some success doing just that, running it as an entirely deep striking battalion, with two Neurothropes and the Hive Guard all coming in together and the rest being min Ripper units. Landing them and double tapping eats up 6 CP, but it hits fairly hard. The Neuro's can Smite/shriek or hit something with Horror. 18 d3 shots from the Hive Guard has this nice, tight distribution around 36 shots, with around an 80% chance of 30+ shots. 20 hits = 10 mortals + ~5 more wounds from the weapon itself.

Unfortunately, certain Knights can just ignore that, and unless you splash GSC for Vecting, there isn't much you can do about it.

babelfish wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Just got back from Dallas Open. There was only 1 Tyranid List out of 123 players. About 6 GSC list though. Nids are definitely in a poor place at the moment do to the prevalence of knights.

I tried to be Nid number 2, but I wasn't able to convince my boss to give me a second weekend off in a row :( .

Knights and the superheavies people take to counter them really hurt us. I feel like that in order to handle the Knights/superheavies, we are effectively locked into taking two units of Shock Cannon Hive Guard and some Raveners to deliver them. I have had some success doing just that, running it as an entirely deep striking battalion, with two Neurothropes and the Hive Guard all coming in together and the rest being min Ripper units. Landing them and double tapping eats up 6 CP, but it hits fairly hard. The Neuro's can Smite/shriek or hit something with Horror. 18 d3 shots from the Hive Guard has this nice, tight distribution around 36 shots, with around an 80% chance of 30+ shots. 20 hits = 10 mortals + ~5 more wounds from the weapon itself.

Unfortunately, certain Knights can just ignore that, and unless you splash GSC for Vecting, there isn't much you can do about it.

Yeah but you are spending what, 800 points to do that. Plus the cp. I was thinking of going the other way, and doing swarm style. Lorks and GSC, who cares if he is shooting cawls wrath at a mob of gants or GS. Thinking 60 GS with Broodlords and swarmy. In melee he doesnt get the invul save. 20 of them are doing 11.11 wounds. Use fight twice and add the broodlord and it should be enough. ALso, you can use other units around him to make a second screen that blocks out the knight. SO even though he can fall back, if you place a circle of GS around 6" away it should shut him out from being able to physically place the knight.

 Dynas wrote:

babelfish wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Just got back from Dallas Open. There was only 1 Tyranid List out of 123 players. About 6 GSC list though. Nids are definitely in a poor place at the moment do to the prevalence of knights.

I tried to be Nid number 2, but I wasn't able to convince my boss to give me a second weekend off in a row :( .

Knights and the superheavies people take to counter them really hurt us. I feel like that in order to handle the Knights/superheavies, we are effectively locked into taking two units of Shock Cannon Hive Guard and some Raveners to deliver them. I have had some success doing just that, running it as an entirely deep striking battalion, with two Neurothropes and the Hive Guard all coming in together and the rest being min Ripper units. Landing them and double tapping eats up 6 CP, but it hits fairly hard. The Neuro's can Smite/shriek or hit something with Horror. 18 d3 shots from the Hive Guard has this nice, tight distribution around 36 shots, with around an 80% chance of 30+ shots. 20 hits = 10 mortals + ~5 more wounds from the weapon itself.

Unfortunately, certain Knights can just ignore that, and unless you splash GSC for Vecting, there isn't much you can do about it.

Yeah but you are spending what, 800 points to do that. Plus the cp. I was thinking of going the other way, and doing swarm style. Lorks and GSC, who cares if he is shooting cawls wrath at a mob of gants or GS. Thinking 60 GS with Broodlords and swarmy. In melee he doesnt get the invul save. 20 of them are doing 11.11 wounds. Use fight twice and add the broodlord and it should be enough. ALso, you can use other units around him to make a second screen that blocks out the knight. SO even though he can fall back, if you place a circle of GS around 6" away it should shut him out from being able to physically place the knight.

Yeah, it isn't cheap. I've tried the swarm builds, and I find that I just can't keep enough of them alive to kill the knight. My experience has been that if I put 60 'stealers + Malenthrope + Broodlord + Swarmlord on the table, I get generally get to charge a screen with 30 'stealers and a Broodlord. 'Gaunts can help clear the screens, but I find that if I'm charging turn 1, I'm only charging chaff, and decent armies have enough shooting that I loose enough mass that I can't bring down the superheavies with the 'stealers. I've had some success trying to ignore the Knight and kill everything else.

I'm not saying your wrong. I'm mostly agreeing that we are in a rough place due to lack of good ways to handle superheavies.

babelfish wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

babelfish wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Just got back from Dallas Open. There was only 1 Tyranid List out of 123 players. About 6 GSC list though. Nids are definitely in a poor place at the moment do to the prevalence of knights.

I tried to be Nid number 2, but I wasn't able to convince my boss to give me a second weekend off in a row :( .

Knights and the superheavies people take to counter them really hurt us. I feel like that in order to handle the Knights/superheavies, we are effectively locked into taking two units of Shock Cannon Hive Guard and some Raveners to deliver them. I have had some success doing just that, running it as an entirely deep striking battalion, with two Neurothropes and the Hive Guard all coming in together and the rest being min Ripper units. Landing them and double tapping eats up 6 CP, but it hits fairly hard. The Neuro's can Smite/shriek or hit something with Horror. 18 d3 shots from the Hive Guard has this nice, tight distribution around 36 shots, with around an 80% chance of 30+ shots. 20 hits = 10 mortals + ~5 more wounds from the weapon itself.

Unfortunately, certain Knights can just ignore that, and unless you splash GSC for Vecting, there isn't much you can do about it.

Yeah but you are spending what, 800 points to do that. Plus the cp. I was thinking of going the other way, and doing swarm style. Lorks and GSC, who cares if he is shooting cawls wrath at a mob of gants or GS. Thinking 60 GS with Broodlords and swarmy. In melee he doesnt get the invul save. 20 of them are doing 11.11 wounds. Use fight twice and add the broodlord and it should be enough. ALso, you can use other units around him to make a second screen that blocks out the knight. SO even though he can fall back, if you place a circle of GS around 6" away it should shut him out from being able to physically place the knight.

Yeah, it isn't cheap. I've tried the swarm builds, and I find that I just can't keep enough of them alive to kill the knight. My experience has been that if I put 60 'stealers + Malenthrope + Broodlord + Swarmlord on the table, I get generally get to charge a screen with 30 'stealers and a Broodlord. 'Gaunts can help clear the screens, but I find that if I'm charging turn 1, I'm only charging chaff, and decent armies have enough shooting that I loose enough mass that I can't bring down the superheavies with the 'stealers. I've had some success trying to ignore the Knight and kill everything else.

I'm not saying your wrong. I'm mostly agreeing that we are in a rough place due to lack of good ways to handle superheavies.

Yeah. I too have had this issue in the past, a few things ive done.

30 Devil gants shooting 90 shots or 180 with single minded annihilation to clear screens if needed.
If the GS kill the chaff screen use overrun strat to move and advance GS again and then play the Fight Again strat.
Try using Hormies to go in first since they have the 6" pile in and consolidate.

Another thing I have considered. Is deploying 3 mawlocs in the back perhaps out of LoS if able and on T1 burrow. On T2 come up and surround the knight doing the mortal wounds. Surround the knight at 1.1" away. Then bring up a DS of Ravenors and hope for a 9" charge to lock the knight in combat. You can then surround the knight in such a way that it cant fall back and thus lose its shooting phase. You could also use a Trygon or Trygon prime as a 4th as well and DS 9" and give AG for 8" charge to lock up the knight.

Technically it can fall back from infantry (ie the ravenors) and over them, but if you have the MAwlocs surrounding him, he can't move past them so they are boxing him in.

I haven't tried this latter trick, i really wish the mawloc could charge the turn it came up.

If you have 3 Mawlocs and your opponent leaves enough space around his Knight to block every direction with them as well as fit enough Raveners in to survive the first round of combat, the mistake was on him even if you make the charge. That's not a reliable investment or even a worthy one if it did manage to work imo, I'd still rather be the Knight player in that scenario

Well the mawlocs can get within an 1.1" so that is quite possible. i usually find knights are screened way out front and people leave them 7" away to avoid getting consolidated into.

It really comes down to the ravenors making the charge. Again this is theory, every game is different.

 Dynas wrote:
Well the mawlocs can get within an 1.1" so that is quite possible. i usually find knights are screened way out front and people leave them 7" away to avoid getting consolidated into.

It really comes down to the ravenors making the charge. Again this is theory, every game is different.

5.1x6.1" tho... the base is about 4-5" big who cares if you kill 1-2 guardsmen for 100pts

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Well the mawlocs can get within an 1.1" so that is quite possible. i usually find knights are screened way out front and people leave them 7" away to avoid getting consolidated into.

It really comes down to the ravenors making the charge. Again this is theory, every game is different.

5.1x6.1" tho... the base is about 4-5" big who cares if you kill 1-2 guardsmen for 100pts

What point are you making here? Im not trying to be rude, im genuinely not sure? lol

My point is that since his screen is 7" away you should be able to slot in the Mawlocs behind his screen and hit his knight.

I don't get his point either.

My point was just that they should see you have Mawlocs and body block you with infantry to stop them coming in and doing that.