Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So yesterday I played two 6th edition games at my local store with my terminator list
Hq
Grey Knight Grand Master-Nemisis Force Sword 175 pts
Grey Knight Librarian- Nemisis Force Sword, Sanctuary, The Shrouding, Might of Titan, Warp Rift 170 pts
Troops
Grey Knight Terminator Squad- Psycannon, 1x Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Sword 225 pts
Grey Knight Terminator Squad- Psycannon, 1x Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Sword 225 pts
Grey Knight Terminator Squad- Psycannon, 1x Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Sword 225 pts
Heavy Support
Nemesis Deadknight- Heavy Incinerator, Personal Telepoter 235 pts
Nemesis Deadknight- Heavy Incinerator, Personal Telepoter 235 pts

1 game against necrons and 1 game against tyrinids. I lost both games :( The first game was very close but his 2 flyers eventually just shot me off the board and the second game he just shot me too pieces. So I need to make some tweeks to my list. I want to keep it under 2k, want to keep the librarian and the 2 Dreadkights, keep the terminator theme, and I want to add a Storm Raven probally with this sett up heavy bolters, assualt cannon, hurricane bolters, and psybolt ammo but that setup is not set in stone. so can some one help me with a list

Maybe drop the grand master and add room for another group of termies? Or perhaps an INQ in termie armor with a retinue that sits on an AA gun?

So here's a try at a 1850 pt list with my above requirements

Librarian- Nemisis Force Sword, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Might of Titan, and Warp Rift 170 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Nemisis DreadKnight- Heavy Incinerator, Nemisis GreatSword, Personal Telaporter 260 pts
Nemisis DreadKnight- Heavy Incinerator, Nemisis GreatSword, Personal Telaporter 260 pts
StormRaven Gunship- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Twin-Linked Assualt Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo 255 pts
1845 pts

So what Do you Dakkanites Think do I need air defence? If so What Do I replace and put in?

starraptor wrote:So here's a try at a 1850 pt list with my above requirements

Librarian- Nemisis Force Sword, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Might of Titan, and Warp Rift 170 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Nemisis DreadKnight- Heavy Incinerator, Nemisis GreatSword, Personal Telaporter 260 pts
Nemisis DreadKnight- Heavy Incinerator, Nemisis GreatSword, Personal Telaporter 260 pts
StormRaven Gunship- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Twin-Linked Assualt Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo 255 pts
1845 pts

So what Do you Dakkanites Think do I need air defence? If so What Do I replace and put in?

Just my thoughts...
1.) Choices on abilities of the Libarian is good for this type of list.
2.) Why do you have 4 separate units of 5 man terminators? Use them as 2 10x man quads and then you can combat squad them or keep them together for the same result. And for 20 points you can give them all str 5 Storm Bolters, which to me is a big deal both for shooting troops as well as the 6th edition glancing rules.
3. What gain are you getting really from the Great Sword? You are shorting yourself 2 attacks to have re-rolls to hit and wound. In "most" cases you are hitting a unit that you will be hitting on 3's when you charge and 2's to wound. With 6th edition rules to hit vehicles, you are hitting them on either an auto hit or a 3. With the new 6th edition rules with 2 fists you are getting 3 str 10 AP2 swings. Chances are you are blowing it up or doing a lot of damage.
4.)Twin-linked Heavy Bolter should really be a Twin-linked melta... it is your only Skyfire model on the table and you can't kill any "Flyer" class model with bolter. The Assault Cannon isn't a bad choice beccause you cannot fire the Plasma Cannon for a snapshot because it is a blast template. The Hurricane bolters I guess aren't bad for some additional shooting but eh, its not much. The Psybolt Ammo i think should be a priority on the Terminators, because they are going to last a lot longer on the table than the StormRaven for the same point cost upgrade.


I am 4-0 so far in 6th Edition with the list below.

Mordrak
x5 Ghost (Force Weapon)
Librarian (Force Warding Staff, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, Warp Rift)
x10 GK Terminators (2 DH, 2 Psycannons, 6 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x10 GK Terminators (2 DH, 2 Psycannons, 6 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x2 Psyrifle Dreads (Psybolt Ammo)
x1 StormRaven (Twin-linked Las Cannon, Twin-Linked Multi Melta)
1995

OR in 1 game I dropped the Storm Raven, added a DreadKnight for 235 and dropped a single Ghost from Mordraks list.

Alright, so you definitely understand that terminators are the new awesome unit in 6th edition. But I would argue that some of those terminators need to turn into paladins. I would recommend atleast one unit of paladins for the following reasons: 1-they are all now characters so if you roll sixes to wound with psycannons you now get to allocate them, same goes for CC. 2-they all get LoS rolls so you can allocate wounds. 3- If you add in an independent character then they get a 2+ LoS. Not to mention that I think FNP actually got buffed because you can now take it against anything unless it causes instant death so you get your AS, your LOS roll, and then your FNP for that model that failed or passed the LOS roll.

You also need to add in more hammers since they are about the only AP2 weapons we have other than dreadknights and lascannons. I would argue that we need atleast 2 hammers now in every terminator or paladin squad due to increase in terminators and thunder hammer/storm shield terminators we are about to see.

3. What gain are you getting really from the Great Sword? You are shorting yourself 2 attacks to have re-rolls to hit and wound. In "most" cases you are hitting a unit that you will be hitting on 3's when you charge and 2's to wound. With 6th edition rules to hit vehicles, you are hitting them on either an auto hit or a 3. With the new 6th edition rules with 2 fists you are getting 3 str 10 AP2 swings. Chances are you are blowing it up or doing a lot of damage.

Just to clarify DK's with DCCW aren't strength 10, only strength 6 as they aren't walkers but are monstrous creatures. Also not sure where you get +2 attacks from, having the pair only gives you +1 attack.

Corinthius wrote:

3. What gain are you getting really from the Great Sword? You are shorting yourself 2 attacks to have re-rolls to hit and wound. In "most" cases you are hitting a unit that you will be hitting on 3's when you charge and 2's to wound. With 6th edition rules to hit vehicles, you are hitting them on either an auto hit or a 3. With the new 6th edition rules with 2 fists you are getting 3 str 10 AP2 swings. Chances are you are blowing it up or doing a lot of damage.

Just to clarify DK's with DCCW aren't strength 10, only strength 6 as they aren't walkers but are monstrous creatures. Also not sure where you get +2 attacks from, having the pair only gives you +1 attack.

+1 paired weapons
+1 charging

6th Edition rules for Monstrous Creatures attacking a vehicle:
2d6 is gone, its now 1/2 your normal # of attacks Str x2 your str but not exceeding 10.

You should double check DCCW, as they are now simply 2x S and ap2 regardless of being a walker or not... unless there is something else I am missing.

Updated list

Grey Knight Grand Master- Master Crafted Nemisis Force Sword,. Digital Weapons 185
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Terminator Squad- Nemisis Daemon Hammer, 4x Nemisis Force Swords, 1x Psycannon 225 pts
Paladin Squad- 5man, 2 Psycannons/Halberds, 2 Daemon Hammers, 1 Nemisis Force Sword 315 pts
Nemisis DreadKnight- Heavy Incinerator, Personal Telaporter 235 pts
Nemisis DreadKnight- Heavy Incinerator, Personal Telaporter 235 pts
StormRaven Gunship- Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, Twin-Linked Assualt Cannon 205 pts


1850 pts on the nose

Aaaah ok, sorry brains still stuck in 5th ed

starraptor, combine two of those terminator squads into one ten man squad. You can still split them if need be, but if they start the game at 10, you can give them Grand Strategy abilities with your GM.

starraptor wrote:3. What gain are you getting really from the Great Sword? You are shorting yourself 2 attacks to have re-rolls to hit and wound. In "most" cases you are hitting a unit that you will be hitting on 3's when you charge and 2's to wound. With 6th edition rules to hit vehicles, you are hitting them on either an auto hit or a 3. With the new 6th edition rules with 2 fists you are getting 3 str 10 AP2 swings. Chances are you are blowing it up or doing a lot of damage.

As already mentioned, the DCCW no longer requires being a walker for the 2xS bonus, so that's 4 (5 on the charge) attacks at strength 10. The added bonus of the Greatsword is that the current wording allows you to use your doomfists and still reroll to hit, wound and armour penetration because the model equipped with it has those benefits (so currently it does not matter with what weapon you attack). So unless the wording of the rule is changed to "attacks made by a Nemesis Greatsword can reroll to hit, wound and armour penetration" the Greatsword can remain sheathed and still grant its benefits. Add to that that it isn't a specialist weapon means you don't loose your two weapon bonus either. In essence it was buffed quite a bit .

DutchSage wrote:

starraptor wrote:3. What gain are you getting really from the Great Sword? You are shorting yourself 2 attacks to have re-rolls to hit and wound. In "most" cases you are hitting a unit that you will be hitting on 3's when you charge and 2's to wound. With 6th edition rules to hit vehicles, you are hitting them on either an auto hit or a 3. With the new 6th edition rules with 2 fists you are getting 3 str 10 AP2 swings. Chances are you are blowing it up or doing a lot of damage.

As already mentioned, the DCCW no longer requires being a walker for the 2xS bonus, so that's 4 (5 on the charge) attacks at strength 10. The added bonus of the Greatsword is that the current wording allows you to use your doomfists and still reroll to hit, wound and armour penetration because the model equipped with it has those benefits (so currently it does not matter with what weapon you attack). So unless the wording of the rule is changed to "attacks made by a Nemesis Greatsword can reroll to hit, wound and armour penetration" the Greatsword can remain sheathed and still grant its benefits. Add to that that it isn't a specialist weapon means you don't loose your two weapon bonus either. In essence it was buffed quite a bit .

Not true, the codex specifically says that you replace your doomfist with the great sword. Thus, losing that extra attack for twice the same cc weapon. So it will not be sheathed. You are using it. Since the fists are the same str as the sword, the fist gives us 0 abilities. Wording is not an issue here. All is very clear in all aspects. The new rules won't change much for our penetration. We were wounding vehicles at str 6 + 2d6 = 8-18 and now we'll be wounding them on str 10 + d6 = 11-16. on average, we should be penetrating about the same. We just got a better chance since we won't get 8-10 possible anymore which is a small boost.

Only thing I don't know right now are the half attacks and how that works. I don't have my book yet. Will do at lunch time. The way I see it, with double fists, you'll get 2 attacks and with a sword, you'll get 2 attacks but rerolls on all. Not counting charge here. dunno how that works for that 1/2 attacks. If it counts, you're getting 1 more attack with fists.

Dunno about you guys but when I use a DK, I bring along that sword unless I don't have the points for it. You know you will get 1s and 2s or missed pen hits in there and the sword fixes that on average. I prefer rerolling everything more then +1 attack. I don't know where you're getting your +2 attacks from the fists unless that's a new rule I didn't read yet.

xilton wrote:Thus, losing that extra attack for twice the same cc weapon.

This rule no longer exists. Only if you are using two weapons and one of them is a specialist weapon you don't gain the +1 attack. And since neither the Doomfist nor the Greatsword are specialist weapons you keep the +1 attack when you replace the Doomfist with a Greatsword.

xilton wrote:Since the fists are the same str as the sword, the fist gives us 0 abilities.

Fists are DCCW that now double the users strength irregardless whether or not the are a walker or not.

xilton wrote:Wording is not an issue here. All is very clear in all aspects. ... I don't have my book yet.

Ahh, right ......

So to clarify, a DK with a Nemesis Great Sword gets 4 attacks (5 on the charge) at S10?

Yes, that seems to be the case in 6th edition. Any combination of two CCWs give +1 attack in 6th, unless one of them is a 'specialist weapon.'