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The rule that says you may have up to half of your units (grr wish it had been points) in reserve, doesn't seem to have Chaos Deamons as an exception...RAW, do they lose all games automatically?

Testify wrote:The rule that says you may have up to half of your units (grr wish it had been points) in reserve, doesn't seem to have Chaos Deamons as an exception...RAW, do they lose all games automatically?

No. You lose if you have no units at the end of a game turn.

For that to happen to Deamons they'd have to screw up every Deep Strike on turn one.

Doesn't it say in the reserve section (I don't have it on me) that the player may put up to half of his units, rounding up, in reserve?
Somewhat related - what is a "unit"? Are independant charectors and transports both regarded separately as units?

ICs are always counted as a separate unit, dedicated transports are included with their unit.

Testify wrote:Doesn't it say in the reserve section (I don't have it on me) that the player may put up to half of his units, rounding up, in reserve?

Chaos Daemons must deploy their entire army in reserve.

time wizard wrote:ICs are always counted as a separate unit, dedicated transports are included with their unit.

Source for this in the rulebook?

I think codex supercedes rule book in this case. Page 7

Testify wrote:

time wizard wrote:ICs are always counted as a separate unit, dedicated transports are included with their unit.

Source for this in the rulebook?

Page 124 under 'Preparing Reserves'.

The BRB also specifies that the limit excludes all units that MUST start in reserve. There is no conflict, as you reserve no more than half of all units that have the option of not being reserved.

GreyHamster wrote:The BRB also specifies that the limit excludes all units that MUST start in reserve. There is no conflict, as you reserve no more than half of all units that have the option of not being reserved.

So the limit exludes flyers?

For codex demons, their rulebook says they must, so this superceeds the rulebook.

Furthermore drop pod armies work just as before, just deploy 1 thing and you're fine in most cases.

juraigamer wrote:For codex demons, their rulebook says they must, so this superceeds the rulebook.

Furthermore drop pod armies work just as before, just deploy 1 thing and you're fine in most cases.

Rounding (and following the rules) says you can have 6 units in pods 1 not in and reserve them all. In a related note, the best anti pod tactic (reserving your entire force) no longer works... hmmm

The difficulty for pod armies is that you don't have to go in it. Units are allowed to deploy normally and have their pod fall down empty. Consequently my understanding is that units riding in pods do count as some of the 50% of your units that can be in reserve, as they aren't forced to be in reserve. the pods themselves dont, as they have to deep strike.

Mandragola wrote:The difficulty for pod armies is that you don't have to go in it. Units are allowed to deploy normally and have their pod fall down empty. Consequently my understanding is that units riding in pods do count as some of the 50% of your units that can be in reserve, as they aren't forced to be in reserve. the pods themselves dont, as they have to deep strike.

Units embarked on deep striking transports are specifically not counted towards the limit (p36).

Guys, read page 36 Deep Strike carefully... pods, and their contents, are excluded... again, read carefully... it says "any passengers" are excluded... not just dedicated.

Anything that 'must' start in Reserves, "Flyers" must go into reserve and are also excluded... that's in the battle / mission rules section...

Anything NOT going in a Drop Pod and NOT forced to come in Reserve or Deep Strike does count towards the 1/2 counting...

Battle / Missions secions says Dedicated transports and their units count as 1 for purposes of the 1/2 counting... same section says IC's count as their own. Check out the BRB...

Cheers,

Tactica wrote:Guys, read page 36 Deep Strike carefully... pods, and their contents, are excluded... again, read carefully... it says "any passengers" are excluded... not just dedicated.

Wow, excellent point. I need to break open the book later and give this a look. As you have it here, HQs in a Pod with a unit still need not be counted as units that can't go into reserve... I need to look at this again. If you're right, my Drop Lysander with MoF list is back in! Boy I hope you're right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
pg 36, 2nd paragraph, seems to agree with this (look at 3rd sentence)

I got to see what others think of this interpretation. It seems right, but I'm surprised by how often another rule on another page contradicts or illuminates something like this.

I think people are forgetting that the rule is that at the end of a GAME TURN not player turn is when someone would lose the game.

There is only one list right now that can lose the game automatically and that is duh duh duh NECRONS.

The reason that necrons can do this is that they are the only one with a flyer for a dedicated transport. Since you take those and death rays you can keep everything in reserve that way. So at the end of your first PLAYER TURN you will not deploy anything. Thus end of GAME TURN you lose the game.

Daemons do not work this way because of the preferred half rule that allows them to deep strike turn one. Also this whole must start in reserve thing is in there ERRATA/FAQ.

Also to follow along on the POD discussion is that he is right PODS with ICS and SQUADS are excluded from this, but if you put your WARLORD in a POD you must deep strike that POD TURN 1. I will find a page for refrence later since I do not have it here with me.

Just unlike PODs FLYERS do not follow this rule since transporting is optional for the exception of the NECRON NIGHT SCYTHE.

Zedrenael wrote:

Daemons do not work this way because of the preferred half rule that allows them to deep strike turn one. Also this whole must start in reserve thing is in there ERRATA/FAQ.

I think you underestimate how badly a Daemon army can scatter...

Necrons must take a character HQ though, and necron ICs dont get dedicated flyer transports right? Meaning you must at least deploy your HQ.

If there is only one unit that has the option of being in Reserves, then it can still be held in Reserves (half of one, rounded up, is one - p5, 'Dividing to Conquer'). So, that doesn't work.

Ah, misread that... thought it was half rounded up must be deployed.

Cheexsta wrote:

Zedrenael wrote:

Daemons do not work this way because of the preferred half rule that allows them to deep strike turn one. Also this whole must start in reserve thing is in there ERRATA/FAQ.

I think you underestimate how badly a Daemon army can scatter...

Unless you're playing with a hell of a lot of impassable terrain, not that bad.

Zedrenael wrote:I think people are forgetting that the rule is that at the end of a GAME TURN not player turn is when someone would lose the game.

There is only one list right now that can lose the game automatically and that is duh duh duh NECRONS.

The reason that necrons can do this is that they are the only one with a flyer for a dedicated transport. Since you take those and death rays you can keep everything in reserve that way. So at the end of your first PLAYER TURN you will not deploy anything. Thus end of GAME TURN you lose the game.

Daemons do not work this way because of the preferred half rule that allows them to deep strike turn one. Also this whole must start in reserve thing is in there ERRATA/FAQ.

Also to follow along on the POD discussion is that he is right PODS with ICS and SQUADS are excluded from this, but if you put your WARLORD in a POD you must deep strike that POD TURN 1. I will find a page for refrence later since I do not have it here with me.

Just unlike PODs FLYERS do not follow this rule since transporting is optional for the exception of the NECRON NIGHT SCYTHE.

A Tyranid pod army can as well. Flyrant plus everyone in a pod. Deep strike the Flyrant and you lose - Nids don't have drop pod assault, and if you pick the pod you must deploy in it - it can't come down empty.