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1.) Per the new power weapon rules, an Agoniser would be an AP 3 Melee weapon that wounds on a 4+ regardless of enemy Toughness, correct?

2.) When buying a Court of the Archon, can you mix-and-match subtypes (Medusae, Ur-Ghuls, etc.), or are you limited to homogenous Courts? (In other words, is it legal to purchase a single Court that contains two Lhamaeans, an Ur-Ghul, and a Sslyth?)

IMHO:
1. AP3, no, the rest, yes.
2. I dunno

There are several toys throughout 40k that say 'ignores armor'; e.g. Farsight's DawnBlade.

Ideas kicked about on YMDC were : "have it ignore armor and don't bother with any AP value, whether AP2 (which would entitle a 1+ on Armor Pen chart) nor AP-"

So, if I were using agonizers, I'd just go with 'ignores armor' and skip the AP, letting my hekatrix use her haywire on the tank. The game won't break down.

While I really like this ruling, the book says something about power weapons with special rules are considered AP 3 Melee weapons with their special rules. I'd love it to ignore armour, but I don't think that's the case.

Octopid wrote:1.) Per the new power weapon rules, an Agoniser would be an AP 3 Melee weapon that wounds on a 4+ regardless of enemy Toughness, correct?

Agonisers are power weapons and with the additional rule falls under the category of Unusual power weapons.

2.) When buying a Court of the Archon, can you mix-and-match subtypes (Medusae, Ur-Ghuls, etc.), or are you limited to homogenous Courts? (In other words, is it legal to purchase a single Court that contains two Lhamaeans, an Ur-Ghul, and a Sslyth?)

The Court comes base with one of each model and you can add 1-4 (depending) of each. This means it is impossible to only take one kind of model.

1. Just to correct, the agonizer is a power weapon, not a power weapon that ignores armor saves.

So it would follow the rules for unusual power weapons.

2. As per the codex, you must take a minimum of at least 1 of each type for the court.

time wizard wrote:1. Just to correct, the agonizer is a power weapon, not a power weapon that ignores armor saves.

So it would follow the rules for unusual power weapons.

This would be my thinking.

2. As per the codex, you must take a minimum of at least 1 of each type for the court.

Meaning you need one Lhamaean, one Ur-Ghul, one Medusae, and one Sslyth or none at all? Do you have a page number reference?

Unit composition of the Archon court:
1-X Lhamaean
1-X Ur-Ghul
1-X Medusae
1-X Salyth

It is exactly the opposite of Beast Masters whose unit is 1-X Beast Masters but may include 0-X of the various pets.

Happyjew wrote:It is exactly the opposite of Beast Masters whose unit is 1-X Beast Masters but may include 0-X of the various pets.

I can't say as I'm happy about that, but I also can't say you're wrong. On the up-side, it makes fielding Asdrubael Vect in his Raider with nine other models much simpler.

Octopoid wrote:
Meaning you need one Lhamaean, one Ur-Ghul, one Medusae, and one Sslyth or none at all? Do you have a page number reference?

It's one of each. If you have none at all, you have no court of the Archon!

Page 84 of the Dark Eldar Codex.

1) Yes it wounds on a 4+ and is AP 3. Unfortunately it is not like the old one that simply ignored armor saves...that would be nice.

2) You have to have at least one of each. Under the Court of the Archon is the unit composition. Each one has a max number as well and they are not the same. You cannot take a court comprised completely of the same unit. Nothing about their make up has changed.

Octopoid wrote:
I can't say as I'm happy about that, but I also can't say you're wrong. On the up-side, it makes fielding Asdrubael Vect in his Raider with nine other models much simpler.

It would be cheaper to take Vect in his Dais with wyches, warriors or wracks.

time wizard wrote:

Octopoid wrote:
I can't say as I'm happy about that, but I also can't say you're wrong. On the up-side, it makes fielding Asdrubael Vect in his Raider with nine other models much simpler.

It would be cheaper to take Vect in his Dais with wyches, warriors or wracks.

It would be cheaper to not take Vect at all, as he's nerfed into oblivion anyway.

Mandor wrote:
It would be cheaper to not take Vect at all, as he's nerfed into oblivion anyway.

How do you figure that?

time wizard wrote:

Mandor wrote:
It would be cheaper to not take Vect at all, as he's nerfed into oblivion anyway.

How do you figure that?

No AP2 weapon, nerfed assault range, no viable support assault unit and silly wound allocation. Certainly not worth his points.

time wizard wrote:

Mandor wrote:
It would be cheaper to not take Vect at all, as he's nerfed into oblivion anyway.

How do you figure that?

his weapon is also AP3


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandor wrote:

time wizard wrote:

Mandor wrote:
It would be cheaper to not take Vect at all, as he's nerfed into oblivion anyway.

How do you figure that?

No AP2 weapon, nerfed assault range, no viable support assault unit and silly wound allocation. Certainly not worth his points.

well and that. His stupid dias was almost enough. Drazhar got to be awesome on the other hand.

Yes, but he still siezes the initiative on a 4+, had grenades, and if you start him with a haemonculi and a unit of wracks he'll start with feel no pain and furious charge.

His assault range is going to be about the same as it was.

Instead of 1D6 for fleet and 6" charge, he now can re-roll either or both of the charge die.

That and the challenge rule, at his initiative he's going to be attacking anything he wants first.

So I don't think he got nerfed, in some ways he got better, and in some a bit worse.

time wizard wrote:His assault range is going to be about the same as it was.

Instead of 1D6 for fleet and 6" charge, he now can re-roll either or both of the charge die.

Its important to note that fleet really is nerfed in this edition. Sure, your max on foot is the same. However, your total distance will be less on average in open ground.

Essentially you are trading d6+6" from 5th edition for 2d6 with a reroll. There is a chart out there showing that it is much worse to have the 2d6 reroll. However, assaulting through DT in 5th is largely the same as non-DT assaults in 6th, with DT assaults in 6th barely being worse than non-DT for fleet units.

time wizard wrote:Yes, but he still siezes the initiative on a 4+, had grenades, and if you start him with a haemonculi and a unit of wracks he'll start with feel no pain and furious charge.

His assault range is going to be about the same as it was.

Instead of 1D6 for fleet and 6" charge, he now can re-roll either or both of the charge die.

That and the challenge rule, at his initiative he's going to be attacking anything he wants first.

So I don't think he got nerfed, in some ways he got better, and in some a bit worse.

Seize initiative is very circumstantial. As it's only a 50% chance you actually seize, you can't rely on it. It's certainly not worth building your army around it.
Grenades are interesting on a cheap, spammy unit, but hardly worthwhile on a 240 pt character.
Feel no Pain has been nerfed in general for Dark Eldar, as we are just as vulnerable to losing it because of Instant Death on STR6 and up, yet it's only 5+ now.
Furious Charge is useless on Vect, because he has a (non-AP2) weapon that always wounds on a fixed value.
Wracks and Haemy are useless as support, as they don't have Fleet, so his assault range will be nerfed even more. And their Initiative is 4.
His assault range, like any Dark Eldar unit assaulting from a vehicle, has been nerfed by 9 minus D6.
In any challenges Vect would want to participate in (aka, not Blob sergeants), he'll be facing a 2+ Sv IC, which his weapon can't penetrate, because Dark Eldar got screwed over by Matt Ward.

So yeah, let's leave Vect at home.

Well, I agree with a lot of what you said.

I'll still have to playtest a few games with vect though before I give up on him.

Another DE player I know is calling 6th the "Grey Knights Edition" of the rules.

time wizard wrote:Well, I agree with a lot of what you said.

I'll still have to playtest a few games with vect though before I give up on him.

Another DE player I know is calling 6th the "Grey Knights Edition" of the rules.

It's true, in the sense that the entire edition got the Matt Ward treatment. Grey Knights are actually one of the few Codices that don't benefit that much from it in comparison to the other MEQ armies. Probably because they already received the Matt Ward's tender attention. For now, I'm just calling it MEQhammer 40K (or TEQhammer 40K). Every non-power armour army got the shaft in this edition, in one form or the other. But that's Matt Ward for you.