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Changing topics from hitting your own hydra (which you can, but only enemy hits enable the hydra to generate focus) to how is your retribution army catered to you? Is it melee heavy or packs light on the punches but hits hard on the shots? Or a mix of both?

I can't find my Retribution codex right now, but I'm reasonably sure Hydras only get the extra focus point if hit by ENEMY attacks.

Right, it does say enemy attacks.

Retribution shoots far better than it melees in my opinion, and I tend to stick to mostly shooting (the only "Melee" unit I own is Sentinels), which gets the job done. Between Stormfalls, the MHSF, Aiyanna & Holt, and the Nyss Hunters, plus whatever guns you bring on Jacks, it's just so much firepower that is a lot of fun to shoot. Usually things like my MHAs, the Pain Knight, and Skarath play the cleanup role, engaging that which I can't just shoot off the board. That said I play Ravyn mostly, and I'll probably end up with a bit more of a Melee force when Vyros2 comes out as my 2nd list for Steamroller.

@derek
You don't have a unit of invictors?

Retribution excel at shooting. There are some exceptions such as Dawn Guard Sentinals if used in mass can really mess up someone's day, however to maximise their usage you want 2 full units.

The Manticore really is an excellent Jack, it was my primary choice for most lists. I liked Phoenix and Dyscordia, but in the end kept coming back to the Manticore. When I sold my retribution I focused around Rhan's Kitten with Mittens, and a Dawn Guard list with Kaelyssa.

The Rhan / Mage list is a 1 turn really mess up the opponents day, but it is hard to deal with those Heavy Khador jacks you'll always run into. The Kaelyssa list was more straight forward. Feat turn 1 / run, then charge in. If your going to fight, go Dawn Guard heavy. They are more consistent then our jacks, and it leaves the Manticores to combo attack and finish off other heavies. Don't let the force field on the Jacks trick you, our jacks do not last long, they are not attrition jacks, its better to shoot up the opponent, or get the jump with a mass army charge.

I run a heavy mittens list with Rahn as well so I'd put it as a balance. Double Phoenix for nodes and stealth control, 2x mittens, 2x magisters, 2x MHA, and Narn. Telekinesis with the MHA/Narn is very nice and reliable. It also rocks hard at board control.

Definitely shoot first, punch second.

I've been running Ossyan a lot lately and using his feat 2nd turn to devastating effect. Only problem with shooting still is against stealth heavy lists.

crazyK wrote:Definitely shoot first, punch second.

I've been running Ossyan a lot lately and using his feat 2nd turn to devastating effect. Only problem with shooting still is against stealth heavy lists.

Minor suggestions. Retribution has lots of "indirect" ways to get around stealth.
Discordia: huge spray, don't be afraid to sacrifice your own units to be the original target, then splash into stealthed units.
Stormfall Archers move your own model next to the stealthed model, shoot your own model with the AOE in the back. You will like be Rat+back strike bonus, often stealthed model have suck for ARM, so lightning them on fire usually means they are dead.
Phoenix: I combusted! your on fire! I'm also an arch node, so arc those spell to kill off the rest of the unit.

Retribution wins by creativity, guile, craftyness, and when all else falls luck!
Shooty your own stuff! Rhan's Force Hammer is great to slam your models into the opponent

njpc wrote:

crazyK wrote:Definitely shoot first, punch second.

I've been running Ossyan a lot lately and using his feat 2nd turn to devastating effect. Only problem with shooting still is against stealth heavy lists.

Minor suggestions. Retribution has lots of "indirect" ways to get around stealth.
Discordia: huge spray, don't be afraid to sacrifice your own units to be the original target, then splash into stealthed units.
Stormfall Archers move your own model next to the stealthed model, shoot your own model with the AOE in the back. You will like be Rat+back strike bonus, often stealthed model have suck for ARM, so lightning them on fire usually means they are dead.
Phoenix: I combusted! your on fire! I'm also an arch node, so arc those spell to kill off the rest of the unit.

Retribution wins by creativity, guile, craftyness, and when all else falls luck!
Shooty your own stuff! Rhan's Force Hammer is great to slam your models into the opponent

Especially with sprays, why would you shoot your own model? Stealth doesn't prevent targeting. Unless for some reason you can't get an angle that would hit more than one, there's no reason to sacrifice your own models. Plus to get close enough to splash a stealth model with an AoE, your model would end up being net defense +2, what with the melee penalty. You're better off just letting the aoe's drift, as especially with Ret's defense you'll probably miss anyway (which, with the fire arrows, means that absolutely nothing happens).

Targeting your own models certainly has it's place, but it usually isn't worth it just to clear out a couple stealth models.

crazyK wrote:Definitely shoot first, punch second.

I've been running Ossyan a lot lately and using his feat 2nd turn to devastating effect. Only problem with shooting still is against stealth heavy lists.

Speaking about Ossyan, his feat, and the Manticore, every shot (if purchased with focus) under Ossyan's feat gets an additional damage die, correct? Not just the inital shot?

Ossyan's feat only works if you target an enemy within his control range. It doesn't matter who shoots it or where the shot originates from only that the target is in his control area.

Avro wrote:@derek
You don't have a unit of invictors?

No, and the reason is, outside of a few theme forces (Vyros1's NQ and Vyros2) I'd most likely be reaching for the MHSF+UA as my ranged threat unit. I'll eventually pick up a unit of Invictors since I like having options (and the reroll on CRA is cool). When I start experimenting more with Vyros1, I'm almost certain they'll become more of a priority.

Sentinels and Halbrediers are both excellent melee choices. I think, no matter what list you build, you would want at least some shooting to back up those big melee units but I find that the best retribution lists are versatile, they can shoot OR melee and do either reasonably well.

Having halbrediers backed with invectors is quite nice


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah yes, would it be an investment to bring a small unit of houseguard riflemen with UA?

General consensus seems to be that Riflemen are pretty terrible when you compare them to other in faction/available choices for the same role. However there is some discussion in the Ret forums on getting some use out of them and where they could work. They look cool at least.