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mhalko1 wrote:
SO my solution to big monsters has been the voidreaper artefact. flat 3 damage. wounding auto on 2s. It has made killing canifexes super easy in cc

Not a bad choice. Warscythes are a good bet in general.
Scarabs throw out a lot of attacks and wound on 5s, and can throw d3 MW on top of it.
Tbh, i'd rather handle them at range.
Wraiths can do the trick, with the +1 STR strat, they can strike at STR 7, get a decent amount of attacks, 2 dmg apiece, and ap-2. with a 3++ to weather the return attacks.

mhalko1 wrote:
SO my solution to big monsters has been the voidreaper artefact. flat 3 damage. wounding auto on 2s. It has made killing canifexes super easy in cc

Carnifex != Big monsters

KurtAngle2 wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:
SO my solution to big monsters has been the voidreaper artefact. flat 3 damage. wounding auto on 2s. It has made killing canifexes super easy in cc

Carnifex =! Big monsters

But it is though?
I mean, its a T7 monster with what, 8 wounds? That's like, 3 times the size of a necron?
Are we really at a sad point where carnifexes are no longer considered big because of LoW nonsense?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:
SO my solution to big monsters has been the voidreaper artefact. flat 3 damage. wounding auto on 2s. It has made killing canifexes super easy in cc

Carnifex =! Big monsters

But it is though?
I mean, its a T7 monster with what, 8 wounds? That's like, 3 times the size of a necron?
Are we really at a sad point where carnifexes are no longer considered big because of LoW nonsense?

...yeah basically

Trygons are the better assault monster. Carnifexen are better as gun platforms nowadays.

We have enough answers to T7 IMO, its more the T8 where we get to the "only destroyers, DDAs and HDs" issue

iGuy91 wrote:
Wraiths can do the trick, with the +1 STR strat, they can strike at STR 7, get a decent amount of attacks, 2 dmg apiece, and ap-2. with a 3++ to weather the return attacks.

You cant use the S+1 strat on wraith.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:

We have enough answers to T7 IMO, its more the T8 where we get to the "only destroyers, DDAs and HDs" issue

An overlord with voidscythe has S10. Another annoyance, we have only one model that can get above S9 with a CCW.

I took my Spearhead/Outrider list to a tournament last weekend and ended up coming 5th out of 40. Really happy with the result and it kind of justified my belief in ignoring troop choices and battalions. Necrons can actually be fantastic at taking out armour and T8; people just waste their points on useless units and so have nothing left over to deal with those.

 Bosskelot wrote:
I took my Spearhead/Outrider list to a tournament last weekend and ended up coming 5th out of 40. Really happy with the result and it kind of justified my belief in ignoring troop choices and battalions. Necrons can actually be fantastic at taking out armour and T8; people just waste their points on useless units and so have nothing left over to deal with those.

Could you post a list? I'm curious.

DudleyGrim wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
I took my Spearhead/Outrider list to a tournament last weekend and ended up coming 5th out of 40. Really happy with the result and it kind of justified my belief in ignoring troop choices and battalions. Necrons can actually be fantastic at taking out armour and T8; people just waste their points on useless units and so have nothing left over to deal with those.

Could you post a list? I'm curious.

It was 1.5k points but 2k would be very easy to add on to.

Sautekh Outrider Detachment

Cryptek, Abyssal Staff, Chronometron, Warlord with the Immortal Pride Trait

10x Tesla Immortals

6x Destroyers

4x Scarabs

4x Scarabs

9x Tomb Blades with Scopes, Vanes and Gauss Blasters

Nihilalkh Spearhead

Lord with Hyperphase Sword

2x Heavy Destroyers

2x Heavy Destroyers

1x DDA

At 2k points I switch some stuff around, mainly getting rid of the immortals, adding in a 2nd tomb blade unit with tesla, another DDA, increasing the H.D's to 3-strong units and some minor scarab number tweaks. What's really nice about the army is that it only has 5 CP but doesn't require any more. I was frequently getting to turn 5 or 6 with 1 cp left over. If you really hate the slow speed and low range of Necrons this army just doesn't that issue at all. Tomb Blades can hit anything they like, DDA's and H.D's shoot from across the board and Sautekh allows the Destroyers to advance and shoot if they need to. Excellent for taking objectives, so much Fly keyword means melee armies aren't that scary if they don't do sufficient damage to you and a prevalence of T5 hurts other armies; the Tomb Blades especially were a nightmare for a Tau army.

I'm going to guess that it includes either a Sautekh/Mephrit Outrder with at least a Cloaktek, a full unit of Destroyers, and two full/close to full units of Tomb Blades, either with Tesla or a mix of Tesla and Gauss, likely with Shieldvanes, maybe with Looms or Scopes, and scarabs filling gaps Then a Nihilak Spearhead of 2 DDAs and something else, maybe a Pylon, and either another Cryptek for healing, or a cheap lord.

Only guessing that because I tried making a battalion-less force a few days back, and that was about the best rough framework I could think of

EDIT: Eh, turns out I was close-ish in some respects.

 Bosskelot wrote:

It was 1.5k points but 2k would be very easy to add on to.

Spoiler:

Sautekh Outrider Detachment

Cryptek, Abyssal Staff, Chronometron, Warlord with the Immortal Pride Trait

10x Tesla Immortals

6x Destroyers

4x Scarabs

4x Scarabs

9x Tomb Blades with Scopes, Vanes and Gauss Blasters

Nihilalkh Spearhead

Lord with Hyperphase Sword

2x Heavy Destroyers

2x Heavy Destroyers

1x DDA

At 2k points I switch some stuff around, mainly getting rid of the immortals, adding in a 2nd tomb blade unit with tesla, another DDA, increasing the H.D's to 3-strong units and some minor scarab number tweaks. What's really nice about the army is that it only has 5 CP but doesn't require any more. I was frequently getting to turn 5 or 6 with 1 cp left over. If you really hate the slow speed and low range of Necrons this army just doesn't that issue at all. Tomb Blades can hit anything they like, DDA's and H.D's shoot from across the board and Sautekh allows the Destroyers to advance and shoot if they need to. Excellent for taking objectives, so much Fly keyword means melee armies aren't that scary if they don't do sufficient damage to you and a prevalence of T5 hurts other armies; the Tomb Blades especially were a nightmare for a Tau army.

Very interesting indeed! Will definitely have to try out a list like that soon. If you dont mind me asking, how often did the Sautekh Code come into use and to what effect? I was thinking switching it up to Nephrekh. It would allow the Scarabs to move faster and the Chronotek to keep up with Destroyers as well as the Tomb Blades if they didnt mind moving 3" less. I would imagine a full unit of Tomb Blades with 3+/5++ and a 4+ RP would be devastating with a list like this, especially in a 2k point game where you are planning to run two full units.

Any real competitive list will tear this list apart. Like a 2k guard list with 18 flame throwing vehicles, doing 27D6 automatic hits per turn at 16 or 22", re-rolling 18 dice, or a 2k tsons list that is capable of 36 MW per turn.

Necron_Mason wrote:


Very interesting indeed! Will definitely have to try out a list like that soon. If you dont mind me asking, how often did the Sautekh Code come into use and to what effect? I was thinking switching it up to Nephrekh. It would allow the Scarabs to move faster and the Chronotek to keep up with Destroyers as well as the Tomb Blades if they didnt mind moving 3" less. I would imagine a full unit of Tomb Blades with 3+/5++ and a 4+ RP would be devastating with a list like this, especially in a 2k point game where you are planning to run two full units.

Bear in mind the Chronometron does not work on Tomb Blades since they aren't infantry.

Sautekh is there so that the TB's and Destroyers can advance and still shoot if need be and also so I can get access to the Abyssal Staff which is, in my opinion, the best relic in the codex. I can potentially use the Sautekh Stratagem too but with only 5 cp's I'm not in a great hurry to use that and I haven't used it a single time yet. Nephrekh is really good on Tesla Immortals, Scarabs and Wraiths for sure but with this list it's fast enough as is. The scarabs were mostly just used to hide and sit on objectives, occasionally moving forward to tie up a unit of scouts or something. Also I was continually surprised at how my Destroyers were able to avoid being targeted; in normal Necron lists you only have like 1 Destroyer Unit and 1 Wraith unit for your opponent to focus on because you've spent so many points on Infantry. With this list because I had so many high priority threats for people to deal with the Destroyers were able to get away with murder pretty much and so in that respect I may even get rid of the Chronometron.

 p5freak wrote:
Any real competitive list will tear this list apart. Like a 2k guard list with 18 flame throwing vehicles, doing 27D6 automatic hits per turn at 16 or 22", re-rolling 18 dice, or a 2k tsons list that is capable of 36 MW per turn.

True, but I'd like to know a Necron list that can stand up to that ^^

 Bosskelot wrote:
Also I was continually surprised at how my Destroyers were able to avoid being targeted; in normal Necron lists you only have like 1 Destroyer Unit and 1 Wraith unit for your opponent to focus on because you've spent so many points on Infantry.

I think your opponents need to work on target priority then, because in my experience destroyers, no matter how many you have, will always draw the most fire.
Also the fact that infantry are so bad you're better off not taking them is not a sign of good army design. Everything in the army should have a function.

Doctoralex wrote:
True, but I'd like to know a Necron list that can stand up to that ^^

There is no necron list that can stand up to that.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I think your opponents need to work on target priority then, because in my experience destroyers, no matter how many you have, will always draw the most fire.
Also the fact that infantry are so bad you're better off not taking them is not a sign of good army design. Everything in the army should have a function.

Yes, sounds like unexperienced opponents, at least against necrons. Destroyers are the usually the main target. And tesla or gauss immortals arent bad.

Eh, I think they are a still a bit too much points wise. They have good guns, but they feel surprisingly fragile. I'd like to see them have their T5 back and warriors get 3+ again.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Also I was continually surprised at how my Destroyers were able to avoid being targeted; in normal Necron lists you only have like 1 Destroyer Unit and 1 Wraith unit for your opponent to focus on because you've spent so many points on Infantry.

I think your opponents need to work on target priority then, because in my experience destroyers, no matter how many you have, will always draw the most fire.
Also the fact that infantry are so bad you're better off not taking them is not a sign of good army design. Everything in the army should have a function.

The thing is though is that I could afford to lose them. In my older lists if my destroyers got wiped in one turn suddenly my entire army's effectiveness dropped into nothing. My last couple of games have had the destroyers die, but there's still Tomb blades causing havoc to infantry and my heavier guns at the back of the board demolishing monsters and armour. We could argue about destroyers being better than tomb blades but 9-18 tomb blades rushing up the board in turn 1 and being in your face is something you HAVE to deal with. One of my recent games was against Nids, a guy who I've played lots and who knows how deadly destroyers can be and he got rid of them in the first 2 turns. I still absolutely demolished his army though even without them there.

Tomb blades IMO are out of meta. Too many damage2 guns. Tau riptides, imperial knights, IG plasmas, ravagers with desintegrators, dark reapers. That puts you in a spot where only armies without damage2 mass shooting is chaos (if they sont use obliterators and their knights), necrons and tyranids.

Nihilalkh Spearhead

Heavy Destroyers

...
I don't understand.

 skoffs wrote:

Nihilalkh Spearhead

Heavy Destroyers

...
I don't understand.

I think its just to fill in the slots. You need 3 HS+HQ for a spearhead.

 p5freak wrote:
Any real competitive list will tear this list apart. Like a 2k guard list with 18 flame throwing vehicles, doing 27D6 automatic hits per turn at 16 or 22", re-rolling 18 dice, or a 2k tsons list that is capable of 36 MW per turn.

Is this a thing competitive Guard are doing now? Which vehicles are doing it?

Also, 36 mortal wounds per turn out of Thousand Sons is extremely unlikely.

 p5freak wrote:

iGuy91 wrote:
Wraiths can do the trick, with the +1 STR strat, they can strike at STR 7, get a decent amount of attacks, 2 dmg apiece, and ap-2. with a 3++ to weather the return attacks.

You cant use the S+1 strat on wraith.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:

We have enough answers to T7 IMO, its more the T8 where we get to the "only destroyers, DDAs and HDs" issue

An overlord with voidscythe has S10. Another annoyance, we have only one model that can get above S9 with a CCW.

Vs non-vehicles, a couple models can get effective S16.

Nightbringer is one.
One of the following can take the voidreaper: Lord, Destroyer Lord, Overlord, CCB, Anrakyr, and Obyron

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Is this a thing competitive Guard are doing now? Which vehicles are doing it?

3*3 hellhounds and 3*3 FW artemia pattern hellhounds. Thats 1638 pts. not violating the same datasheet only 3 times rule.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Also, 36 mortal wounds per turn out of Thousand Sons is extremely unlikely.

No, its not. A FW chaos decimator with twin soulburner petard does 4D3 shots, hitting on 3+, with re-rolling 1s from another unit. Each successful hit is 1 automatic MW. Yes, no need to roll if they wound. Three of these do at least 18 MW in one turn. Add magnus with his 2D6 smite and some more psykers, and 36 MW in one turn is possible.

 p5freak wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Is this a thing competitive Guard are doing now? Which vehicles are doing it?

3*3 hellhounds and 3*3 FW artemia pattern hellhounds. Thats 1638 pts. not violating the same datasheet only 3 times rule.

The important part was "Is this a thing competitive Guard are doing now?" Show me the competitive guard tournament lists running 18 hellhounds.

 p5freak wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Also, 36 mortal wounds per turn out of Thousand Sons is extremely unlikely.

No, its not. A FW chaos decimator with twin soulburner petard does 4D3 shots, hitting on 3+, with re-rolling 1s from another unit. Each successful hit is 1 automatic MW. Yes, no need to roll if they wound. Three of these do at least 18 MW in one turn. Add magnus with his 2D6 smite and some more psykers, and 36 MW in one turn is possible.

First, 4x3=12 not 18. Secondly, I said unlikely and it still is. A decimator with two soulburner petards is 270 points. No one is going to consistently win with spending 810 points on 3 dreadnoughts. Thirdly, Decimators can't be Thousand Sons.

I misread, sorry

 p5freak wrote:

Skhmt wrote:

One of the following can take the voidreaper: Lord, Destroyer Lord, Overlord, CCB, Anrakyr, and Obyron

You are so wrong. No named character can get a voidscythe. Their wargear is fixed. Lord, destroyer lord and CCB cant use the voidscythe. You are mistaking it with the warscythe. The overlord is the only model who can use the voidscythe, which is pathetic.

Read his post again. He said Voidreaper, not voidscythe. The only requirement for the voidreaper is that the model must be armed with a warscythe OR voidscythe.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

The important part was "Is this a thing competitive Guard are doing now?" Show me the competitive guard tournament lists running 18 hellhounds.

Ok, i dont know if someone plays, or played it competitively, but its certainly possible.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

First, 4x3=12 not 18. Secondly, I said unlikely and it still is. A decimator with two soulburner petards is 270 points. No one is going to consistently win with spending 810 points on 3 dreadnoughts.

A D3 is 2 hits on average. 4*2=8. Hitting on 3+ re-rolling 1s means at least 6 hits. 3 decimators * 6 hits = 18 MW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Read his post again. He said Voidreaper, not voidscythe. The only requirement for the voidreaper is that the model must be armed with a warscythe OR voidscythe.

True. Which is pretty useless against vehicles. Still, named characters cannot use either warscythe, voidscythe, nor voidreaper.

 p5freak wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

The important part was "Is this a thing competitive Guard are doing now?" Show me the competitive guard tournament lists running 18 hellhounds.

Ok, i dont know if someone plays, or played it competitively, but its certainly possible.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

First, 4x3=12 not 18. Secondly, I said unlikely and it still is. A decimator with two soulburner petards is 270 points. No one is going to consistently win with spending 810 points on 3 dreadnoughts.

A D3 is 2 hits on average. 4*2=8. Hitting on 3+ re-rolling 1s means at least 6 hits. 3 decimators * 6 hits = 18 MW.

What you should have said here was "I was wrong" not moved the goalposts. You said 3 Decimators did a minimum of 18, not an average. In fact, their minimum is 0.

You also responded to the question of "Is this something Guard do" like it was, instead of just possible.

Bad faith arguments are not going to get you far in life.

I'm not going to comment on your nonsense any longer in this thread about Necron tactics.

Yeah.. it's perfectly fine to come clean if you blow it

 skoffs wrote:

Nihilalkh Spearhead

Heavy Destroyers

...
I don't understand.

I need to fill the detachment out somehow and I will take 2 DDA's that benefit from the Nihilakh code.