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Very true.

I have 34 rangers painted and only 5 vanguard.

Kinda wish it was the other way round.

But is 60+ skittles too many?

wish i could play with the new codex but GW has been shafting my local gaming store.
They got the sisters codex but refuse to send the admech ones for some damn reason. Grrr...

I went out and picked up 1 more box of skitarii when the codex dropped. which took me up to 20 rangers & slightly over 20 vanguard (with additional models holding various special weapons) (now all painted too). but that will be my limit I think. esp as I really still like the look of Lucius Breachers as some other troops choices.

Personally I think the codex is strong, but there are obvious weak points too. AdMech will really fear the sniper for instance (and SM Eliminators have dropped to 25ppm...). there is a lot of Synergy required for our units to perform well on the tabletop.

 Thairne wrote:
No, we don't.
The codex seems strong in theory until you actually play against it. Lots of moving parts which require the starts to align to work - one strong offensive and one strong defensive turn and then the codex falls of drastically.

So please stop spreading such hyperbole - its simply not true and gives a factually false impression of the codex.

The only thing holding this codex back from sheer dominance is the financial cost. The current Mech players will get the models they need soon enough as GW is having a hard time with their supply because of covid. When you guys get what you want/need miniature-wise and practice you will see that out of five turns you will always be stronger in at least two of those turns. The one strong offensive turn as you put it is one of the strongest alpha strikes I have seen in 40k history. Canticles and imperatives work at the start of the battle round which means you know who is going first or second so that one strong defensive/offensive turn will be used in the turn when the player can get the maximum value out of it.

While reviewing the codex at the beginning I was impressed with the Imperatives which is a selective buff that adds extreme value which can be given to a unit from a model that only costs 45 points! Even the flyers are strong they have the ability to drop bombs, reduce movement, and turn off auras.

This codex is one of the strongest codexes in 40k history! 80 str 4 ap 2 shots bs 2 re-roll 1's to hit and wound! At least that combo requires resources but the vanguard one where a 1 point stratagem allows 60 str 4 shots to wound on a 4+ is amazing. Without any buffs with 1 command point 160 points forces 30 saves before you roll to wound! I will stop with the troop choices because it only gets stronger the more you dive into the codex.

I am not a hater, I just believe this codex is coming and coming hard. There will always be a codex at the top and I believe it will be this 9th edition Mech codex. If my Grey Knights don't pass my eye test you will have another Mech player.

I’d argue our troops is probably the strongest of choices just behind las chickens

Bombers and sicarians are also good. Marshall and Manipulus is great

But I’m struggling to see how OP everything is after that. Sisters, Orks, Grey Knights and recently changed Drukhari are all on the horizon

Probably a bit too early to be panicking about admech running away with it

Ah, and I had forgotten why I put CKO on ignore.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Very true.

I have 34 rangers painted and only 5 vanguard.

Kinda wish it was the other way round.

But is 60+ skittles too many?

Nah, I think 60 is going to be close to the norm. Good time to practice speed painting them. I don't intend to field more than 30 with my Knights, but still I've gotten my Battle Ready recipe to ~30 minutes.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
wish i could play with the new codex but GW has been shafting my local gaming store.
They got the sisters codex but refuse to send the admech ones for some damn reason. Grrr...

If playing with the rules is the part holding you back, Wahapedia just updated the AdMech section. Personally, I don't bring my codex to games anyway. I keep a notebook with all the pertinent info: stat blocks, weapons, abilities, stratagems and buffs by phase, statistics against typical targets.

 DarkHound wrote:
Ah, and I had forgotten why I put CKO on ignore.

I don't even know who you are, but everyone is entitled to have an opinion. I am a very aggressive player and the combos in this codex match my style perfectly. I also play Necrons we have protocols which is a much worse version of canticles. You get to see who goes first then you get to select a canticle. Necrons have to arrange their version of canticles in turn order before the game starts and the protocols only work if you are within range of a noble. If you want your defensive protocol in turn 3 but you put it in turn 4 you are out of luck, mech doesn't have that problem. Small things like that add up and that is why this codex is so strong. From a Necron player's perspective canticles and imperatives are what protocols should be. That is one of the reasons I am very impressed with canticles and imperatives, not because it's OP but because that's how protocols should be. The forge world dogmas are strong, giving a horde army plus one to save against anti-horde weapons is not to be taken lightly. The buffs from the hqs and stratagems work well together, I love your codex.

I actually think AdMech's greatest strength is in its beta strike. We can weather the first shooting turn really well. Mars with armywide Bulwark and Shroudpsalm, Lucius with Bulwark, the dogma, and hiding stuff in reserves or behind ruins with the Solar Flare relic.

This means we can position with impunity and delete midboard assets for a structural advantage that most armies struggle to overcome.

I do think Lucius is the strongest of the FWs because of that dogma. Shroudpsalm and Bulwark are only one turn, but Solar Blessing is forever. People severely underestimate its impact on even things like Corpuscarii. The dogma and cover get him to 4+/5++/5+++, which is better than 3+/4++ against D1.

I am a noob to this codex, I am a bit confused with the canticles. Mars gives Skitarii units the canticles, why wouldn't they have it in the first place? They have the Adeptus mechanics keyword.

 CKO wrote:
I am a noob to this codex, I am a bit confused with the canticles. Mars gives Skitarii units the canticles, why wouldn't they have it in the first place? They have the Adeptus mechanics keyword.

I believe now the canticles by default only effect "CULT mechanicus" rather than all "ADEPTUS mechanicus".
Everything is "Adeptus Mechanicus", but skitarii have "SKITARII" and servitors/priests have "CULT mechanicus".

So, canticles only by default effect your servitors, tech-priests, robots, and basically anything that isn't crewed by a Skitarii.

I see certain units have canticles and imperatives listed as abilities.

So Cult units are struggling and I find myself looking at the Mechanicus Defense Cohort again. I appreciate that losing access to the strongest units in the book might not be the best way to improve the under-performing ones, but leave no stone unturned, eh? Admittedly, I have very little experience with Cult units.

The Cohort functionally replaces the Dogma for Kataphrons and Robots, but other units still get their Dogma, and everyone can still benefit from Forgeworld stratagems.

I'm thinking Lucius is a strong contender due to Luminescent and Deepstrike. The former is obviously a big deal for Kataphrons with Disgustingly Resilient, and the latter helps alleviate the core units' mobility issues. Of course the dogma is not very useful for Electropriests.

Obviously Agripinaa is the servitor faction and it pays dividends to bump huge blocks of Disgustingly Resilient Breachers to T6. Their Relic is just great, probably one of the best available. And what's more the Dogma is a pretty huge buff to Cartogramist deepstriking Corpuscarii.

@darkhound

I just recently played a game with some Lucius Breachers. They were very tanky - couldn’t hit to save their lives but as unit that didn’t want to die they were great

 DarkHound wrote:
So Cult units are struggling and I find myself looking at the Mechanicus Defense Cohort again. I appreciate that losing access to the strongest units in the book might not be the best way to improve the under-performing ones, but leave no stone unturned, eh? Admittedly, I have very little experience with Cult units.

The Cohort functionally replaces the Dogma for Kataphrons and Robots, but other units still get their Dogma, and everyone can still benefit from Forgeworld stratagems.

I'm thinking Lucius is a strong contender due to Luminescent and Deepstrike. The former is obviously a big deal for Kataphrons with Disgustingly Resilient, and the latter helps alleviate the core units' mobility issues. Of course the dogma is not very useful for Electropriests.

Obviously Agripinaa is the servitor faction and it pays dividends to bump huge blocks of Disgustingly Resilient Breachers to T6. Their Relic is just great, probably one of the best available. And what's more the Dogma is a pretty huge buff to Cartogramist deepstriking Corpuscarii.

I think it might be best to Mix-n-Match with the forgeworlds if going this route. e.g. take a Ryza Patrol - of Plasma Destroyers (for the strat), 20x Fulgurites, 1x Technoboy/Enginseer with Cartogrammist WL Trait - deepstrike the Fulgurites with an 8" charge, and maybe with canticles on T2 - 3D6 drop lowest charge too.
then take the rest of your list in Lucius or Agrippina probably with a bunch of breachers and kastellans.

So forgeworlds ranked?

Lucius
Mars
Stygies
Ryza
Metallica
Agripinaa
Graia

Presumably a Lucius list will be the first to top a GT. As a fan of Mars I find myself souping in Lucius. As we have no super doctrine do we think this will last. A lot of marine players I know are grumbling that we don’t lose anything

I’m considering 2 paint schemes

This is my list


++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [42 PL, 785pts, -3CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Mars

+ HQ +

Skitarii Marshal [3 PL, 45pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Ironstrider Ballistarii [8 PL, 150pts]
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon

Ironstrider Ballistarii [8 PL, 150pts]
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon

Ironstrider Ballistarii [8 PL, 150pts]
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon
. Ironstrider Ballistarius: Twin Cognis Lascannon

+ Flyer +

Archaeopter Fusilave [7 PL, 130pts]: Command Uplink

Archaeopter Stratoraptor [8 PL, 160pts]: Command Uplink

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [60 PL, 1,215pts, 9CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Lucius

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Archeotech Specialist [-2CP]: 2x Archeotech Specialist

Stratagem: Mechanicus Locum [-1CP]: Mechanicus Locum

+ HQ +

Skitarii Marshal [3 PL, 45pts]: Mechanicus Locum, Relic (Lucius): The Solar Flare, Warlord Trait (Codex 5): Firepoint Telemetry Cache

Skitarii Marshal [3 PL, 45pts]: Relic: Exemplar's Eternity

Tech-Priest Manipulus [6 PL, 105pts]: Logi, Magnarail lance, Relic: Raiment of the Technomartyr, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Lucius): Luminescent Blessings

+ Troops +

Skitarii Rangers [8 PL, 170pts]: Enhanced Data-Tether, Omnispex
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 19x Skitarii Ranger: 19x Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Rangers [8 PL, 170pts]: Enhanced Data-Tether, Omnispex
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 19x Skitarii Ranger: 19x Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Rangers [2 PL, 40pts]
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 4x Skitarii Ranger: 4x Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Vanguards [8 PL, 170pts]: Enhanced Data-Tether, Omnispex
. 19x Skitarii Vanguard: 19x Radium Carbine
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Elites +

Sicarian Infiltrators [4 PL, 85pts]
. Infiltrator Princeps (Flechette/Taser)
. 4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser): 4x Flechette Blaster, 4x Taser Goad

Sicarian Infiltrators [4 PL, 85pts]
. Infiltrator Princeps (Flechette/Taser)
. 4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser): 4x Flechette Blaster, 4x Taser Goad

+ Flyer +

Archaeopter Fusilave [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaff Launcher

Archaeopter Fusilave [7 PL, 150pts]: Chaff Launcher

++ Total: [102 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts]

Anyone able to improve that?

Possibly exchange 1x Infiltrators + 10points (probably 1 Chaff Launcher) for 5 Pteraxii? assuming Booster Thrust does not get nerfed?

Ooh cheeky yeah that could be cool

Although I think enough people complaining we have no chance of keeping it. Was the same with tactica oblique. Too many people cry about something then GW folds to the pressure

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Ooh cheeky yeah that could be cool

Although I think enough people complaining we have no chance of keeping it. Was the same with tactica oblique. Too many people cry about something then GW folds to the pressure

Similar ability for marines got the restriction for not doing both in one turn in the latest FAQs, so I would almost put money on it:

*Page 104 – Guerilla Tactics
Add the following onto the end of this Stratagem:
‘That unit cannot arrive from Strategic Reserves in the same turn
it is placed into Strategic Reserves.’

I don't mind if Booster Thrust goes. Not even the most OP example of RAW because it costs 2 CP per turn to do. That would be stacking Galvanic Fields. (It's not an aura ability, so you can get two Manipulii to boost a Lucius Ranger unit to 45" S4 AP3.)

Until I see the FAQ though, not going to act on any of the weird, seemingly broken interactions. But if they miss it, then it's fair game as far as I am concerned.

i thought it was a general rule that if a unit is affected by multiple instances of the same rule they dont stack, only if theres different rules that have the same effect?

Do you lose canticles or imperatives if you take different Forge Worlds? I just put in my application to be the next Fabricator General for my Forge World! I am playing Ad Mech instead of Necrons.

Not if they are in separate detachments

If you made a mix it would break them. So you could take a Mars patrol and a Lucius patrol and get the benefits of both specifically to the eligible units

Can you use the initial part of a progressive ability while you are doing the action activate advanced protocols?

Played against new admech today with my tournament death guard meta list. There was a ton of obscuring terrain on the table.

He got first turn and killed almost 900 points worth of stuff. Deleted Mortarion with ease, then bombed hidden Blightlords with two planes, charged in with teleported robots, and a smattering of other things, and the game was over.

Turn two he cleaned up the rest. The poster above was right, admech has the nastiest alpha strike I've seen in my 10+ years in the hobby. This codex does everything you want and more. Yeeeeeesh. The guy I was playing wasn't even try harding the game. He was just messing around rolling dice, and it obliterated my strongest army in two turns. :O

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i thought it was a general rule that if a unit is affected by multiple instances of the same rule they dont stack, only if theres different rules that have the same effect?

That rule pertains specifically to Aura abilities, which were more broadly defined in 8E, but in 9E, are explicitly labeled. Galvanic Field has not been labeled an Aura ability.

But I am going to wait until they release their FAQ to use (abuse?) this.

Man...I know they aren't the current hotness, but I really think kataphron breachers are absolutely fantastic. Perfect units!

They hard durable, have decent shooting, decent melee, are troops, are a decent price (point-wise) and have fantastic models to boot!

Not being core hurts, but also lets them operate independently to as well.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Played against new admech today with my tournament death guard meta list. There was a ton of obscuring terrain on the table.

He got first turn and killed almost 900 points worth of stuff. Deleted Mortarion with ease, then bombed hidden Blightlords with two planes, charged in with teleported robots, and a smattering of other things, and the game was over.

Turn two he cleaned up the rest. The poster above was right, admech has the nastiest alpha strike I've seen in my 10+ years in the hobby. This codex does everything you want and more. Yeeeeeesh. The guy I was playing wasn't even try harding the game. He was just messing around rolling dice, and it obliterated my strongest army in two turns. :O

Ah man, I'm sorry that was a rough game. Death Guard have an awful match-up against AdMech: they're just not durable in the right way. Vanguard in particular are purpose built to kill high toughness units, and overwhelm armor with damage 1 hits. I had a similar match tonight in my local 50PL Crusade league against Nurgle Daemons. Killed his big beautiful Great Unclean One turn 1, then mopped up his army and tabled him on turn 3. I felt so bad for the guy, he only killed 4 infantry models.

There are other armies that can weather the storm and then we run out of gas. I've had really rough games against orks and Harlequins where my early lead doesn't last long enough.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Played against new admech today with my tournament death guard meta list. There was a ton of obscuring terrain on the table.

He got first turn and killed almost 900 points worth of stuff. Deleted Mortarion with ease, then bombed hidden Blightlords with two planes, charged in with teleported robots, and a smattering of other things, and the game was over.

Turn two he cleaned up the rest. The poster above was right, admech has the nastiest alpha strike I've seen in my 10+ years in the hobby. This codex does everything you want and more. Yeeeeeesh. The guy I was playing wasn't even try harding the game. He was just messing around rolling dice, and it obliterated my strongest army in two turns. :O

I also think this has more to do with matchup than anything. AdMech has great answers to everything DG has to offer.

Played my new list into a friends tournament winning tyranids list. (He recently won an RTT)

I went first and he conceded start of his T1. Admech are strong if we go first and get our buffs off

But going second needs more testing. Vanguard and enriched rounds is going to get itself removed. Naughty vanguards flying too close to the sun

Anyone else hate how GW make rules. They release something amazing (probably too strong) the person who plays the army gets excited and uses it. The opponents hate it and resent you.

GW then nerf into oblivion and undo the excitement of a new book. And the opponent still has PTSD and resents you

If only they just tested their game to begin with and didn’t do this

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Played my new list into a friends tournament winning tyranids list. (He recently won an RTT)

I went first and he conceded start of his T1. Admech are strong if we go first and get our buffs off

But going second needs more testing. Vanguard and enriched rounds is going to get itself removed. Naughty vanguards flying too close to the sun

Anyone else hate how GW make rules. They release something amazing (probably too strong) the person who plays the army gets excited and uses it. The opponents hate it and resent you.

GW then nerf into oblivion and undo the excitement of a new book. And the opponent still has PTSD and resents you

If only they just tested their game to begin with and didn’t do this

Unfortunately this is how the "meta" works in every single game ever, it isn't a problem singular to Games Workshop. It is difficult to create a balance when people go over everything until they find whatever is the screwiest most over powered list and then use it and tell everyone to use it. Then people go and complain that this thing breaks the game. It's up to people playing the game to opt not to be arseholes.

Otherwise the company response will always be "Damn, yep that is overpowered, easy fix is nerf it into nothing". The endless cycle of they are using this list so I need to use an equally screwy list if I want to win just devolves the game into nothingness. Why play if that is the end result every time?

To me, GW's fault lies in actually promoting that kind of play with that "meta-watch" thing. Games shouldn't be balanced because that makes fun play, but the overpowered things need to be difficult to use and require skill and have potential for disaster if used poorly.

Edit: I should point out I have zero interest in tournament style play, just not for me at all. So I have to ask - you set up all your models, you play half of a turn and your mate concedes? What did you do afterwards, did you play a game? That's not me trying to be crappy, I'm genuinely interested.