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Alright, so I recently got back into the hobby of 40k. Found some old mini's in my closet, and with some new disposable income, I'll be getting back into the game. Long story short, I'll be playing Eldar. Currently I have a squad of 10 guardians/heavy weapon platform. Next friday I'll be making some purchases, so I'd like some guidance before I go in. What I'm thinking of getting is:

1x box of Dire Avengers
1x Farseer

This will put me at a very small army of a squad of guardians, squad of dire avengers, and a farseer. I imagine this will be good for a small 500pt game. I'll also be picking up the codex, so currently all I know is what I've read online. What I PLAN to get in the future is based on a mix of what I need tactically, and what models I like. So:

Banshees-seem like a unit that will take out heavy infantry, such as termies, correct? I would really like to include these in my army, since they are my favorite model.
Swooping hawks-tank killers, yes? Again, I really love these models.
Warwalkers-I think I will take 2-3, with scatterlasers each. Possibly one of them will have EML's. Good choice? These will be my guys to clear out hordes (I think).
Warlocks-thinking of picking up 2-3 to throw in units of guardians/avengers. Good choice?

Those are what I see myself picking up to get a solid base for a 1k points game about. Again, I don't have the codex yet, so I'm not too sure what this will come out to. Some other thoughts I have, or possibly questions:

1. Wave serpents. I don't particularly like mech units (personal choice), but I understand I may need some transport. Will my units get destroyed without at least one or two, or can I slog across the field and do ok?
2. Avengers/guardians. What is the general rule of thumb for troops? Do I need more?
3. Is there a particular weakness this army will have with what I listed? I'm not absolutely competitive, somewhere inbetween. That said. I don't want to field an army that will be crushed if there is some huge weakness (not enough units that can deal with tanks, army is too slow, army will get overrun and destroyed by hordes, etc)

I suppose this is pretty much just a list of what my own thoughts are. Any advice to starting out will be great. Thanks, hope to see some helpful responses!

Edit: Meant to mention I plan on a box of rangers as well, picking off scary units seems like something that can't be passed up. I'm on the fence with Harlequins as well, I hear they are pretty great, but not too sold on the actual models. Not sure if I like how they look or not. A bit shallow perhaps, but the only way I would field them would be if I could find a way to paint them without looking like literal clowns. With that said though, I'm sure I could come up with a pretty nice paint scheme to negate this...

I'll be the first to admit I'm not very good with Eldar so I won't give any tactical advice. That said, there's nothing wrong with including any of those units in a starter army.

There are a couple of misconceptions that need to be cleared up though. First, banshees are good at shredding most infantry however 6th edition turned power weapons into ap3 so terminators and other 2+ models will laugh in their face. For termies I like scorpions because of the higher strength. They still get their save but you should cause more wounds thereby causing more deaths.

Second, swooping hawks aren't really tank killers as much as they are general harrassment. They have the range to stay away from assaulty troops andcan use skyleap to stay away from shooty ones. I like to use them to jump on and off the board to get a free pie plate out of them.

Also dont underestimated walkers with scatter lasers' ability to damage vehicles. With hull point,tgat many S6 shots will easily glance most vehicles to death in short order.

As for transports. You can get by without them in smaller games, but you should really give them serious consideration when you get closer to 1000 points.

Thanks for the advice, great stuff. One question though-don't banshees have mirror swords, meaning they ignore saves? I thought that was what made them worth taking, to be honest. I'm really considering adding some harlequins for CC, I hear rending is pretty sweet. A friend told me about a tactic where you put a shadowseer in a group with harlequins on the front line and march down the field with them, since they are pretty hard to hit and can move quickly. Anyways, that is all theoretical and pretty far beyond the stage I am at. As a follow up, will a box of guardians, avengers, and pathfinders be sufficient for a game of, say, 1k?

Regular Banshees have powerweapons, you have to upgrade the Exarch to get mirror swords, and yes those do ignore armor.

I believe the way they are worded mirror swords do still ignore armour. But they are only on your exarch so thats only one model in the squad that can reliably hurt terminators. Don't take this as me saying that banshees are bad. I'm just pointing out that they aren't near as good against termies as they were in 5th.

You mentioned harlies and IMO they would be better for you if you expect to face terminators. Actually they're pretty good against just about anything. Putting a shadowseer in them will protect them against long range firepower but they will be more vulnerable the closer you get.

A farseer, 10 guardians, 10 avengers and 5 pathfinders should weigh in around 500 points. To go up to 1000 you may look at things like a small squad of harlequins and a falcon for them to hitch a ride in. And maybe some of those war walkers you mentioned earlier

Again this isn't meant to be the most competitive advice but all of these units are ones that you can get use out of at any points level and won't necessarily lose effectiveness at higher point levels.

The problem I see, even more in 6th is that with so much shooty, your Banshees/Scorpians/Firedragons need a transport of some sort. In my experience they are usually seen as the biggest threat and blown off the table.. IMO i think the Eldar battle box is a good investment for a beginner getting into Eldar.

Before buying a bunch of models it would be good to think of how you want to run your army. Foot, mech, bike, hybrid? If you want to play comparatively, your options are
Much less. (as I just experienced last weekend in my first 6th edition tournament). Once you give an idea of what you think will be the most fun to play, model, and paint, then i can give a
Better list of thigs that can't hurt to buy. But for now, thigs that can be in any list and things all eldar should own...

Any army can and should include...
Farseer and warlocks box
3 war walkers

Most armies can benefit from...
Guardian jetbikes
Rangers
Fire dragons

I wouldn't go out and buy the following items until you have a plan of how you want to run your army....
Banshees
Scorpions

Thanks for the advice again. I'm really leaning towards a more foot based army, with harlie's as my main CC units, keeping my other troops as a bit more shooty. If I go the route with more troops and less mech, would an avatar be a good investment for the future? Move him up the field with avengers/guardians and the farseer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for the advice again. I'm really leaning towards a more foot based army, with harlie's as my main CC units, keeping my other troops as a bit more shooty. If I go the route with more troops and less mech, would an avatar be a good investment for the future? Move him up the field with avengers/guardians and the farseer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Razgriz22 wrote:Before buying a bunch of models it would be good to think of how you want to run your army. Foot, mech, bike, hybrid? If you want to play comparatively, your options are
Much less. (as I just experienced last weekend in my first 6th edition tournament). Once you give an idea of what you think will be the most fun to play, model, and paint, then i can give a
Better list of thigs that can't hurt to buy. But for now, thigs that can be in any list and things all eldar should own...

Any army can and should include...
Farseer and warlocks box
3 war walkers

Most armies can benefit from...
Guardian jetbikes
Rangers
Fire dragons

I wouldn't go out and buy the following items until you have a plan of how you want to run your army....
Banshees
Scorpions

I would like an army without many vehicles/mechs besides some warwalkers. More units of foot soldiers appeals to me and my playstyle.

You may want to consider the Avatar of Khaine at some point. He's pretty good in small point games, and is very good in a foot-based Eldar army since he gives everyone around him fearless (which has recently been improved).

I agree with the advice given above. Dire Avengers and Warwalkers are a solid start and can be used in different styles of Eldar armies.

One thing I noticed that I don't think was cleared up yet, is that dire avengers can't take warlocks. You can have a farseer join the unit, but they don't get to take a warlock by themselves.

-Myst

2 words: Fire Prisms.

These babies just became crazy thanks to the new template rules. And at 115 points they are extremely undercosted.

-Range 60" Str 9 ap 2 is very good against vehicles unlike before.. Its even better if you manage to catch 2 vehicles with 1 blast.

-The Str 10 ap 1 combined beam can insta kill most vehicles thanks to AP 1 adding 2 to the damage table... that means instant death on a 4+ roll in the damage table....

-Ap3 large blasts are very good in the current meta as people will deviate away from bringing to many vehicles and prefer foot slogging.

-Thanks to jink, they will always have cover saves of 5+ assuming that they get shot at in the 1st place....

Little tip for your farseer
you pay 55 for farseer + 20 for spirit stones to give you Psychic mastery two. then its mandatory for you to pick a psychic power so pick ONE of the cheap ones. so you have only have one power. then use the new psychic powers out of the core rulebook and you get two powers even though you only pay for one. More bang for your buck.

Cypher's Sword wrote:Little tip for your farseer
you pay 55 for farseer + 20 for spirit stones to give you Psychic mastery two. then its mandatory for you to pick a psychic power so pick ONE of the cheap ones. so you have only have one power. then use the new psychic powers out of the core rulebook and you get two powers even though you only pay for one. More bang for your buck.

That is a nice try but that doesnt work. Farseers specifically have t buy codex powers and ten swap them for rolls on the new charts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now for the OP....

IDK what point list you are looking to go for. But lets jsut assume around 1500.

HQ wise I would get a farseer (preferably Eldrad) or use a normal farseer as a "counts as". You will need him for fortuning 2 separate units as they move across the table. Also the avatar is a champ for any foot list. The ONLY reason I wouldnt take him is if you were attached to Kasandras the scorpion phoenix lord and would take him instead. But the avatar is better IMO. If the avatar isn't your cup of tea, then you can take another farseer which isnt a bad thing.

Elite wise, take a harley team. Run them behind your front line troops whatever they may be and keep them available to counterassualt anyone who wants to get in CC with your all your foot troops. If you take the avatar then 10 harleys might not be necessary, but if you dont, then i would try for a larger group of them as they will be your main CC unit. Also at 1500 points its tough to fit them in, but a 10 man unit of wraithguard is a rock solid wall of death.

For troops I would either try the wraithguard or use guardians (lots) as bubble wrap. To make them more survivable you can give them a warlock with conceal. Fortuning the concealed unit effectivly gives them a re-rollable 5++ which helps. A blob of 20 guardians with conceal and fortune can take a good bit of shots. For rear objectives, rangers arent a bad idea. A group of 10 is survivable, 5 is cheaper but more risky.

For fast attack I wouldnt bother unless you fancy warp spider. Those guys are neat and can do a lot of damage. Mobile S6 spam.

Heavy I would stick to Wraithlords with EML's and Bright Lances with 2 flamers. Maybe 2 of them and a group of 3 war walekrs with scatter lasers.

Pretty much mix and match until you find what you enjoy :-)

GOOD LUCK

If you're taking the Avatar to keep your Guardians feerless, make sure you get a warlock in each Guardian squad.
Upgrade them to Seers, and grab some Wraithlords.

The Wraithlords are both good at cc, but also get to take heavy weapons.
They do take the same slot as War Walkers, but if you already have your flanks covered with other units, having a WL in the pack might help the Avatar take down some of the bigger enemies.

A major problem with standard Eldar troops in 6th is they have short ranged assault weapons.
Eldar shooty units don't want to be in cc, and they get outgunned by most other units.
I do use Dire Avengers a lot myself. Getting off 22 shots most turns, and 32 when bladestorming, is a lot when facing up to an assault unit about to smack you.

Razgriz22 wrote:

Cypher's Sword wrote:Little tip for your farseer
you pay 55 for farseer + 20 for spirit stones to give you Psychic mastery two. then its mandatory for you to pick a psychic power so pick ONE of the cheap ones. so you have only have one power. then use the new psychic powers out of the core rulebook and you get two powers even though you only pay for one. More bang for your buck.

That is a nice try but that doesnt work. Farseers specifically have t buy codex powers and ten swap them for rolls on the new charts.

crap thought I had it there, but if what your saying is true, I can pay for four psychic powers and get four rolls (although Eldrad is probably cheaper) Correct?

If your fully gearing a farseer your just as well using eldarad instead.
If memory serves its 20 points difference or something for more psychic goodness.

Personally I use harlies over banshees, rending seems more usefull to me.
Swap the hawks for spiders. S6 takes down vehicles just fine.
War walkers w scattere lasers is solid.

Avengers and guardians are your troops, so you will need them. At least 3 squads I say, as they are usually out ranged and go down to lots of things.

Fire dragons are always a solid choice. And I have a bit of a thing for dark reapers.
Scorpions could do well in your list as screening for your troops but I feel they do best in larger games where you have points for a unit to take damage over deal it.

Yuber wrote:2 words: Fire Prisms.

These babies just became crazy thanks to the new template rules. And at 115 points they are extremely undercosted.

-Range 60" Str 9 ap 2 is very good against vehicles unlike before.. Its even better if you manage to catch 2 vehicles with 1 blast.

-The Str 10 ap 1 combined beam can insta kill most vehicles thanks to AP 1 adding 2 to the damage table... that means instant death on a 4+ roll in the damage table....

-Ap3 large blasts are very good in the current meta as people will deviate away from bringing to many vehicles and prefer foot slogging.

-Thanks to jink, they will always have cover saves of 5+ assuming that they get shot at in the 1st place....

Fire prisms used to be near impossible to completely kill with holofields. Now they go down quick. They are very much glass cannons. In hybrid/ mech lists I will run them. When I do run them, I take them bare, 115 pts is cheap.

But most foot lists will be better off with Wraithlords. If you only have 2 vehicles in a foot list, they will be the first thing to go. All anti tank shots will be going for them. So unless there are other vehicles to shoot at, I wouldnt take fire prisms.

Personally, I think Banshees are dead in 6ed. They probably have their uses, but I have some preferences over them. The points are best used elsewhere. Then again, I always, always recommend playing what you WANT to play, rather than what everyone else SAYS to play. I played Meganobz with Dok Grotsnik with my Orks in 5ed, and did quite well once I got the hang of it. I played Wraithguard in 5ed with my Eldar, and did reasonably. People laughed at both options, and once I got in some practice I often tied or won. Do what you want and enjoy the game.

But for tactical advice, I recommend these:

Walkers over wraithlords unless you expect to face off against AV14, but even then it's easy enough to outmaneuver the enemy in most cases. I run two or three wraithlords with a Missile Launcher, Bright Lance and TL flamers. Currently I run two, and run a farseer with them to provide a guide and a fortune each turn. Guide helps immensely with taking down tanks. Walkers can spam S6 more effectively for the points however, allowing you to glance things to death when you get close enough, and to sweep moderately sized groups of infantry.

Harlequins as per the current FAQ, RAW, are ridiculous. I agree it's likely a typo, but I play the FAQ as per the FAQ until it says differently. I wouldn't ask other people to reinterpret their FAQ just because it seems OP, and my thought is that if it's wrong it will be corrected likely some time this August. At least, that's when I heard they were doing an update to the BRB. But anyway, harlies with a shadowseer, all armed to the teeth with kisses and two fusion pistols. I send them in with Eldrad nearby or in the group (which costs them their fleet IIRC) and doom, fortune, guide.

For troops, I love pathfinders. This is a personal preference, but I keep them on back objectives, usually taking three groups of five. They can snapshot as they move between cover, and really, you want those 6's anyway. But in good cover, you're only getting hit by barrage, flamers, or by rolling 1's on your saves.

Also, warp spiders are currently a good choice for list filler. More S6 spam that can come down in your opponent's back field and potentially drop their squishy warlords, pop tanks from behind, or just be a nuisance and slow down a key unit. I play a game yesterday that allowed me to remove a unit of firewarriors from a back field objective in a solid round of shooting at the end of the game.

Razgriz22 wrote:

Yuber wrote:2 words: Fire Prisms.

These babies just became crazy thanks to the new template rules. And at 115 points they are extremely undercosted.

-Range 60" Str 9 ap 2 is very good against vehicles unlike before.. Its even better if you manage to catch 2 vehicles with 1 blast.

-The Str 10 ap 1 combined beam can insta kill most vehicles thanks to AP 1 adding 2 to the damage table... that means instant death on a 4+ roll in the damage table....

-Ap3 large blasts are very good in the current meta as people will deviate away from bringing to many vehicles and prefer foot slogging.

-Thanks to jink, they will always have cover saves of 5+ assuming that they get shot at in the 1st place....

Fire prisms used to be near impossible to completely kill with holofields. Now they go down quick. They are very much glass cannons. In hybrid/ mech lists I will run them. When I do run them, I take them bare, 115 pts is cheap.

But most foot lists will be better off with Wraithlords. If you only have 2 vehicles in a foot list, they will be the first thing to go. All anti tank shots will be going for them. So unless there are other vehicles to shoot at, I wouldnt take fire prisms.

There are very few things in the game that can reach units 60" away. Then again ofcourse they wont work with footdar list. But I think footdar list will not fare well in 6th.

I think wave serpents or falcons are important for mobility. I only have one wave serpent so far, but constantly find my troops get cut down before they get into firing range.
Next game I'll be using jetbikes and a vyper for the 1st time. But I'm also going to try my luck and see if my opponent will be ok with using a Wraithgate, just to try something else.

I only have 1 war walker but so far, its the best unit I've got. He likes to kick some... I proxy'd up a wraithlord, he died. Though the toy I used for it looks like a Wraithlord and its armed with GW weapons.

But I think the use of Falcons or Wave Serpents is a good idea, not just for the extra mobility but the helpful cover of it and the support from their weapons that they can offer.

Yuber wrote:
There are very few things in the game that can reach units 60" away. Then again ofcourse they wont work with footdar list. But I think footdar list will not fare well in 6th.

Why not?

-Myst

Yuber wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:

Yuber wrote:2 words: Fire Prisms.

These babies just became crazy thanks to the new template rules. And at 115 points they are extremely undercosted.

-Range 60" Str 9 ap 2 is very good against vehicles unlike before.. Its even better if you manage to catch 2 vehicles with 1 blast.

-The Str 10 ap 1 combined beam can insta kill most vehicles thanks to AP 1 adding 2 to the damage table... that means instant death on a 4+ roll in the damage table....

-Ap3 large blasts are very good in the current meta as people will deviate away from bringing to many vehicles and prefer foot slogging.

-Thanks to jink, they will always have cover saves of 5+ assuming that they get shot at in the 1st place....

Fire prisms used to be near impossible to completely kill with holofields. Now they go down quick. They are very much glass cannons. In hybrid/ mech lists I will run them. When I do run them, I take them bare, 115 pts is cheap.

But most foot lists will be better off with Wraithlords. If you only have 2 vehicles in a foot list, they will be the first thing to go. All anti tank shots will be going for them. So unless there are other vehicles to shoot at, I wouldnt take fire prisms.

There are very few things in the game that can reach units 60" away. Then again ofcourse they wont work with footdar list. But I think footdar list will not fare well in 6th.

No, not alotcan shoot 60". But with the deployments in the BRB you cant really get 60" away from things. Most of the time you will be in range of a lot of things. You will also be a target, so things will come after them. There isnt THAT much space to hide with them if someone wants a prism dead. The farthest you can realistically be away from someone who wants you dead and deploys in a way to take you out is about 48".

And footdar being dead in 6th is a crazy statement. I dont know how you can back that up.

Razgriz22 wrote:

Yuber wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:

Yuber wrote:2 words: Fire Prisms.

These babies just became crazy thanks to the new template rules. And at 115 points they are extremely undercosted.

-Range 60" Str 9 ap 2 is very good against vehicles unlike before.. Its even better if you manage to catch 2 vehicles with 1 blast.

-The Str 10 ap 1 combined beam can insta kill most vehicles thanks to AP 1 adding 2 to the damage table... that means instant death on a 4+ roll in the damage table....

-Ap3 large blasts are very good in the current meta as people will deviate away from bringing to many vehicles and prefer foot slogging.

-Thanks to jink, they will always have cover saves of 5+ assuming that they get shot at in the 1st place....

Fire prisms used to be near impossible to completely kill with holofields. Now they go down quick. They are very much glass cannons. In hybrid/ mech lists I will run them. When I do run them, I take them bare, 115 pts is cheap.

But most foot lists will be better off with Wraithlords. If you only have 2 vehicles in a foot list, they will be the first thing to go. All anti tank shots will be going for them. So unless there are other vehicles to shoot at, I wouldnt take fire prisms.

There are very few things in the game that can reach units 60" away. Then again ofcourse they wont work with footdar list. But I think footdar list will not fare well in 6th.

No, not alotcan shoot 60". But with the deployments in the BRB you cant really get 60" away from things. Most of the time you will be in range of a lot of things. You will also be a target, so things will come after them. There isnt THAT much space to hide with them if someone wants a prism dead. The farthest you can realistically be away from someone who wants you dead and deploys in a way to take you out is about 48".

And footdar being dead in 6th is a crazy statement. I dont know how you can back that up.

-You CAN move 12" and shoot to avoid 48" range weaps.
-You CAN relocate them in the deployment phase if you have Eldrad.
-Not everyone will deploy in way just so they can take a shot at my prisms.
-I did not say footdar is dead at all. Read my post thoroughly, it's not that difficult. I am not defending a claim I did not make.
-Now, if you can show me which units with 48" range that can EFFECTIVELY threaten my fire prisms, perhaps you can make a better argument.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mysticaria wrote:

Yuber wrote:
There are very few things in the game that can reach units 60" away. Then again ofcourse they wont work with footdar list. But I think footdar list will not fare well in 6th.

Why not?

-Myst

-Nerfed cover saves. (Should be more than enough explanation)
-Rapid fire buff which the eldar does not enjoy at all.
-Direct intervention of players with the terrain. (easiliy bogging down footslog lists)
-Lack of eldar AA regarding infantry.
-Integration of IA units to other codices

Disclaimer: Im not saying footdar lists will not work. They will just have a harder time this edition.

Yuber wrote:
-You CAN move 12" and shoot to avoid 48" range weaps.
-You CAN relocate them in the deployment phase if you have Eldrad.
-Not everyone will deploy in way just so they can take a shot at my prisms.
-I did not say footdar is dead at all. Read my post thoroughly, it's not that difficult. I am not defending a claim I did not make.
-Now, if you can show me which units with 48" range that can EFFECTIVELY threaten my fire prisms, perhaps you can make a better argument.

Yes you can move 12" and shoot. Which is awesome I rarely move less then 12" when I use my prisims.

Eldrad's power has saved me a few times. But I dont get to use that power as often as I like because I always roll crappy to see who goes first :-(

If people dont deploy to take out your prisims then tey must not know how dangerous they can be! Which is a good thing for you
Usually my war walkers and prisms are the first targets.

Eh, i just disagree with them being more difficult to play now. I think there are going to be less things with an AV value on the board now so that means more troops out there. Maybe thats a wrong thought. I hope everything just seems more balanced now.

Space marine bikers with multi-meltas move 12 inches and shoot 24 inches. They hurt. Flyers target prisms hard too. Twin linked lass shots rip it apart. LandSpeeders are quite mobile and can punch hard. Xenos wise, Singing spear jetbikes from eldar, tau rail guns, dark eldar dark lances. Really, a lot of stuff can punish it. Not saying that measn you shouldn't take it. Just saying that they shouldn't be the only vehicles in your army.

^^ but those are hardly units with 48" effectiveness.

The flyers are rarely a problem for me because, if they fail to kill me the moment they come in the board, ill just move them flatout and hide inside their blind spots.

Land speeders are a joke, they never get the 1st shot on my prisms unless they deep strike it and I dont have interceptor units around.

Jetbikes will wither down from 3 large blasts and excruciatingly amount of fire power any decent eldar army will take.

These things are hardly good for punishing prisms. Bottomline is, if they even want a remote chance of killing my prisms, they will have to work REALLY hard for it.

I'm also going to go out of my way and say that having prisms alone in the army is not a bad idea, you just need to add star engine in them.

Yuber wrote:^^ but those are hardly units with 48" effectiveness.

The flyers are rarely a problem for me because, if they fail to kill me the moment they come in the board, ill just move them flatout and hide inside their blind spots.

Land speeders are a joke, they never get the 1st shot on my prisms unless they deep strike it and I dont have interceptor units around.

Jetbikes will wither down from 3 large blasts and excruciatingly amount of fire power any decent eldar army will take.

These things are hardly good for punishing prisms. Bottomline is, if they even want a remote chance of killing my prisms, they will have to work REALLY hard for it.

I'm also going to go out of my way and say that having prisms alone in the army is not a bad idea, you just need to add star engine in them.

Not trying to sound rude here, but what does the rest of your list look like where these fire prisms are godly on the field? And what is the level of your competition?

Your either are playing against people who cant focus fire worth crap, or you are extremely lucky and never scatter, or you are really lucky and pass every jink roll.

Like i said, they aren't a bad unit. They are a great take at a 115 price. But they dont have the staying power they used to. A simple drop pod with a few guys who have melta/ plasma can hurt one pretty bad. They just arent the same holofielded beasts that they were in 5th.

Rather than Avatar in a foot list, get a wraith lord or two. Unlike Fire Prisms, Wraith lords has never dissapointed me.

Swooping hawks are great as anti tank now, each remove HP on 2+ is an almost guarantee you wreck any tank you get to assault. And a squad of 6 still comes cheaper than suicide dragons, because you dont need an expencive transport.

About taking out Termies in HtH, just dont.

Razgriz22 wrote:

Yuber wrote:^^ but those are hardly units with 48" effectiveness.

The flyers are rarely a problem for me because, if they fail to kill me the moment they come in the board, ill just move them flatout and hide inside their blind spots.

Land speeders are a joke, they never get the 1st shot on my prisms unless they deep strike it and I dont have interceptor units around.

Jetbikes will wither down from 3 large blasts and excruciatingly amount of fire power any decent eldar army will take.

These things are hardly good for punishing prisms. Bottomline is, if they even want a remote chance of killing my prisms, they will have to work REALLY hard for it.

I'm also going to go out of my way and say that having prisms alone in the army is not a bad idea, you just need to add star engine in them.

Not trying to sound rude here, but what does the rest of your list look like where these fire prisms are godly on the field? And what is the level of your competition?

Your either are playing against people who cant focus fire worth crap, or you are extremely lucky and never scatter, or you are really lucky and pass every jink roll.

Like i said, they aren't a bad unit. They are a great take at a 115 price. But they dont have the staying power they used to. A simple drop pod with a few guys who have melta/ plasma can hurt one pretty bad. They just arent the same holofielded beasts that they were in 5th.

-Its hard to miss a scatter if you are bs 4 and the vehicle targets are very big. Its even harder to scatter if your twinlinking your prisms.
-Its a terrible idea to droppod suicide a 115 point unit, especially when that unit will eat an AP3 large blast from another edge of the board next turn. My level of competitions is good enough to do such a thing.
-Im not saying they are ungodly, but they are the best point for point unit eldar has now, so maybe you can show me a more point-efficient unit that I may seem to have missed.
-Im not arguing that 5+ jink is resilient, What im saying is my prisms rarely or never get shot at. And even if they do, they usually fail to kill it as ill just zoom them of to the other side of the board next turn.

Here's a list I'm running ATM @ 1500pts:

-Eldrad
-Wraith Seer
-9x Wraith Guard + Sprit Seer Warlock (conceal)
-9 Guardian Jetbikes + 3 shuricans
-3 Fire prisms
-1 Nigthwing

To be able to fly out of harms range with a FP, you assume the enemy has crowded all antitank on one spot at the far end of the table.
As it usually (in my experience) only takes one stray krack missile to explode the FP, I find it hard to accept you just zoom 12" and dance out of the missiles.
Fire Prisms can probably do alot of damage on the enemy, but its one of the most unreliable units in the dex. And god knows BS4 is not nearly enough to "almost always hit" the blast.
Disclaimer: I speak from experience not statistics. Sorry about that.

Fayric wrote:To be able to fly out of harms range with a FP, you assume the enemy has crowded all antitank on one spot at the far end of the table.
As it usually (in my experience) only takes one stray krack missile to explode the FP, I find it hard to accept you just zoom 12" and dance out of the missiles.
Fire Prisms can probably do alot of damage on the enemy, but its one of the most unreliable units in the dex. And god knows BS4 is not nearly enough to "almost always hit" the blast.
Disclaimer: I speak from experience not statistics. Sorry about that.

-I pray that you are talking about 6th ed because in sixth, as long as any AV unit is under the template, it will suffer full strength, unlike in 5th. - The reason why I'm saying it's hard to miss with FP.
-If it's krak missiles, then its probably coming from Long Fangs or Dev squads, easily avoided by smart terrain placement, and Unit relocation using eldrad's powers pre game. I dont know how a "stray" krak missiles explodes a fire prism when it has 3 hull points and a perma 5+ cover save. Do the math. 5 missiles will not reliably kill a Fire prism. Are prisms killable? yes. Are they easy to kill? no.
-Im not saying fire prism's are untouchable, but based on your responses, I come out as marketing FPs to be nigh invincible - which I never claimed.

You said FPs are easy targets esp if they are the only vehicles you are bringing, I said they aren't and offered reasonable and realistic arguments. The points I raised are "facts" I dont know why are you trying so hard to prove them wrong =P

Yuber wrote:

Mysticaria wrote:

Yuber wrote:
There are very few things in the game that can reach units 60" away. Then again ofcourse they wont work with footdar list. But I think footdar list will not fare well in 6th.

Why not?

-Myst

-Nerfed cover saves. (Should be more than enough explanation)
-Rapid fire buff which the eldar does not enjoy at all.
-Direct intervention of players with the terrain. (easiliy bogging down footslog lists)
-Lack of eldar AA regarding infantry.
-Integration of IA units to other codices

Disclaimer: Im not saying footdar lists will not work. They will just have a harder time this edition.

ok, thanks. Good points. I know it's early yet in 6E but I have seen much more foot slogging lately due to increased fragility of vehicles. I think that improves units with large blasts and barrage... but also improves other foot walkers as many times troops that used to be in vehicles can now be targetted directly. I was thinking that footdar might be improved a lot in this addition, especially if it is a build that can effectively ignore flyers. Time will tell I guess, and footdar seems like an extreme list that will be dependent on the metagame. I can see it doing well in some places and being bad in others depending on what styles of armies are being played. Possibility exists for many intense debates on this in the coming months with people having strong opinions and anecdotal evidence for both sides.

Has anyone thought through the best allies for footdar? Dark Eldar 2+ shenanigans? Terminators? Rail guns?

-Myst