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SAMPLE ARMY

Blood Angels

Mephiston

Tactical Squad
Tactical Squad

Predator
Predator

Rifledread w/ Drop Pod

Sanguinary Guard


Q: How many units can you put in reserve, given this hypothetical army list? 3 or 4?

A) There are 7 units in the army. Half of 7 is 3.5, rounded up to 4. So you can put 4 units in reserve. Since the rifledread has a drop pod, he HAS to go into reserve, therefore he DOES NOT count against the limit, so you can put 4 OTHER units into reserve.

OR.....

B) There are 7 units in the army. Half of 7 is 3.5, rounded up to 4. However, since the rifeldread is in a drop pod, he HAS TO go into reserve, so he does not count towards your army units, which means you technically have 6 units. Half of 6 is 3, so you can put 3 OTHER units in reserve.

I would say 3 because there are 6 units that may be put in reserve and 1 which must be put in reserve, and units that must be put in reserve don't count towards the total when working out for reserves

macc92 wrote:I would say 3 because there are 6 units that may be put in reserve and 1 which must be put in reserve, and units that must be put in reserve don't count towards the total when working out for reserves

This is correct.

Does a Bastion (or other fortification) count as a unit when trying to figure out the 50%?

MadmanMSU wrote:Does a Bastion (or other fortification) count as a unit when trying to figure out the 50%?

No. They are treated as pieces of terrain.

PanzerLeader wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:Does a Bastion (or other fortification) count as a unit when trying to figure out the 50%?

No. They are treated as pieces of terrain.

They are also on the table before deployment.

MadmanMSU wrote:Q: How many units can you put in reserve, given this hypothetical army list? 3 or 4?

You now choose to Combat Squad before deployment, so you can actually get 9 total units (the drop pod doesn't count because it must start in reserves). That would let you reserve up to 5 units, if you combat squad both tac squads. If you don't combat squad both, you can reserve up to 4 units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also to note, there's nothing that forces you to deploy your units in their Dedicated Transports, even if it is a Drop Pod. You are fully capable of bringing a Drop Pod with the Dreadnought, but deploying the Dreadnought on the table.

elrabin wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:Does a Bastion (or other fortification) count as a unit when trying to figure out the 50%?

No. They are treated as pieces of terrain.

They are also on the table before deployment.

MadmanMSU wrote:Q: How many units can you put in reserve, given this hypothetical army list? 3 or 4?

You now choose to Combat Squad before deployment, so you can actually get 9 total units (the drop pod doesn't count because it must start in reserves). That would let you reserve up to 5 units, if you combat squad both tac squads. If you don't combat squad both, you can reserve up to 4 units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also to note, there's nothing that forces you to deploy your units in their Dedicated Transports, even if it is a Drop Pod. You are fully capable of bringing a Drop Pod with the Dreadnought, but deploying the Dreadnought on the table.

Pg 124. Units that must start the game in reserve are
ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units
may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a
single unit for these purposes.

It is absolutely 3. A drop pod and what is inside do not county towards the total, which means you have a total of 6 and thus 3 reserved. However, in this particular scenario, both options give you 4 units in reserve, one must be the drop.pod


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is absolutely 3. A drop pod and what is inside do not county towards the total, which means you have a total of 6 and thus 3 reserved. However, in this particular scenario, both options give you 4 units in reserve, one must be the drop.pod

Kevin949 wrote:Pg 124. Units that must start the game in reserve are
ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units
may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a
single unit for these purposes.

All that's saying is that if you start the unit in its transport, they are counted as a separate unit. There is nothing forcing you to put a unit in their drop pod.

Also read the first three paragraphs of the Deep Strike rules, as that has further clarifications about units that must arrive via deep strike, which interact with the reserve rules.

insaniak wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Pg 124. Units that must start the game in reserve are
ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units
may do so. A unit and its Dedicated Transport are counted as a
single unit for these purposes.

All that's saying is that if you start the unit in its transport, they are counted as a separate unit. There is nothing forcing you to put a unit in their drop pod.

?? It says nothing of the sort of a unit needing to start in it's transport for the unit and it's transport to be one unit as opposed to starting out of it's transport and then they're two units. I know nothing forces you to start in the transport but nothing that I can find says they aren't counted as one unit either way.

*Edit*
Meaning, you could choose to have the unit and it's transport both in reserve but the unit not in the transport and it would still count as one. Or you have the unit on the board and the transport in reserve and it wouldn't count towards your limit. Well, in the case of drop pods. In the case of a ghost ark, for example, if the unit and/or it's transport are in reserve they will count as 1.

A unit with a Drop Pod doesn't have to start the game in reserve unless they are on board the Drop Pod.

So unless the unit is in the pod, that section from the FAQ wouldn't apply to the squad, just to the pod.

insaniak wrote:A unit with a Drop Pod doesn't have to start the game in reserve unless they are on board the Drop Pod.

So unless the unit is in the pod, that section from the FAQ wouldn't apply to the squad, just to the pod.

but the transported unit and the drop pod count as a single unit for the purposes of working out how much you can put into reserve.

It's a poorly written mess that is broken by units that can deploy on the board with dedicated transports that must come from reserves.

Drunkspleen wrote:but the transported unit and the drop pod count as a single unit for the purposes of working out how much you can put into reserve.

Yes... but the unit only doesn't count if they have to remain in reserve. Which, for most (if not all) units with drop pods, would only happen if they are actually in the pod.

insaniak wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:but the transported unit and the drop pod count as a single unit for the purposes of working out how much you can put into reserve.

Yes... but the unit only doesn't count if they have to remain in reserve. Which, for most (if not all) units with drop pods, would only happen if they are actually in the pod.

look at this way though, a drop pod and it's unit will always count as only 1 no matter what. Since the drop pod will NEVER count towards the limit on it's own, regardless to a unit starting in it or off it, on or off the board.

The real question comes into play when you have DT's that don't "have" to start in reserve, such as the ghost ark. But since it "is" a dedicated transport, it and it's unit will only ever count as 1 unit for the purpose of determining reserves. The rule I quoted makes no distinction or notice of whether the unit has to start on it or not, thus following the wording the DT and the unit are "always" counted as 1 unit for the purpose of determining the 50% limit. Unless there's something I'm missing, please point me in the right direction if I am. Otherwise, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the rule as the way it is written.

I am going to try it this way with changing some of the units.

Mephiston and an Honor Guard in a Razorback [Counts as 2 Units 1 for the HQ and 1 from the Honor Guard and its Transport]

Sanguinary Guard [Counts as 1 Unit, even though it CAN Deep Strike, it is an option so they still count as 1]

Tactical Squad in a Rhino [Counts as 1 Unit]
Assault Squad [Counts as 1 Unit, even though it CAN Deep Strike, it is an option so they still count as 1]

Rifleman-Dread w/ Drop Pod [Counts as 1 Unit, but because it MUST start in reserve counts as 0]

Predator [Counts as 1 Unit]
Predator [Counts as 1 Unit]

This give you 7+1 Units, of which 3.5 or 4 MAY start in Reserve and 1 that Must start in Reserve for a max total of 5 in Reserves.

I think drop pods and their unit should be counted as must start in reserve. The problem is that if you do a 100% drop pod army, you cannot deploy 50% of the army by drop pods if you go by that idea that because they can opt out of the drop pod assault.

liturgies of blood wrote:I think drop pods and their unit should be counted as must start in reserve. The problem is that if you do a 100% drop pod army, you cannot deploy 50% of the army by drop pods if you go by that idea that because they can opt out of the drop pod assault.

No they can’t Opt Out of Drop Pod Assault, if you choose to do a Drop Pod Army half of it shows on the 1st turn..

Sorry you misunderstand. You can opt out of drop podding a unit, my point is you cannot count drop pods towards the maximum number of units to reserve.
I meant drop pod assault as the tactic not the rule.

liturgies of blood wrote:Sorry you misunderstand. You can opt out of drop podding a unit, my point is you cannot count drop pods towards the maximum number of units to reserve.
I meant drop pod assault as the tactic not the rule.

I still don't completely understand, are talking about the fact that you do not have to come on board in the Drop Pod?

So what happens if I put my rhino in reserve, and my tactical squad on the table?

According to the poorly written rule, a unit and a dedicated transport count as a single choice for reserves.

-Matt

You Can't, a Unit and its Transport are One Unit and must Both either be in Reserves or Not in Reserves. It is rather clear that they are ONE Unit in the 1st Paragraph “Preparing Reserves” on Page 124.

Anpu42 wrote:You Can't, a Unit and its Transport are One Unit and must Both either be in Reserves or Not in Reserves. It is rather clear that they are ONE Unit in the 1st Paragraph “Preparing Reserves” on Page 124.

Not so, I don't have to put my unit in it's drop pod.

No you don't have to put it in the Pod, but they must show up the Same turn as the Pod

One of the telling features of 6th edition is that the rules for DS and Reserves are different in a lot of respects. Dedicated Transports are very important in Reserves, but irrelevant with DS. If Lysander DS with a group of Terminators that counts as 2 units, because the IC counts as his own unit even though he joined the unit of Terminators under the Reserves rules. Lysander in a Drop Pod with a Tactical Squad counts as 1 unit, despite the fact that 3 separate units are actually represented under the DS rules. Its convoluded at best.

A unit and their Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for the purposes of calculating the number of units that can remain in reserves and actually deploying 50% of your army first turn. Even though they are counted as one unit they are not forced to arrive together. "Similarly, the player must specify if any units in reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in reserve, in which case they will arrive together." If you choose not to embark the unit in the transport they will not arrive together.

You don't have to put them in reserve. If they are in reserve and not in a transport then why should they arrive at the same time?

Anpu42 wrote:No you don't have to put it in the Pod, but they must show up the Same turn as the Pod

Not true. If I do not deploy my Tactical Squad in a Drop Pod I cannot make the Tactical Squad arrive by DS (since they cannot) and if they start in Reserves they come in by Reserve rolls starting turn 2. Or they start on the board and the Drop Pod comes on 1st turn, unless I decide it is part of the 2nd wave.

Captain Antivas wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:No you don't have to put it in the Pod, but they must show up the Same turn as the Pod

Not true. If I do not deploy my Tactical Squad in a Drop Pod I cannot make the Tactical Squad arrive by DS (since they cannot) and if they start in Reserves they come in by Reserve rolls starting turn 2. Or they start on the board and the Drop Pod comes on 1st turn, unless I decide it is part of the 2nd wave.

I am looking and can find it, could you give a Page#, and Paragrph Location?

Anpu42 wrote:I am looking and can find it, could you give a Page#, and Paragrph Location?

I already did.

Captain Antivas wrote:A unit and their Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for the purposes of calculating the number of units that can remain in reserves and actually deploying 50% of your army first turn. Even though they are counted as one unit they are not forced to arrive together. "Similarly, the player must specify if any units in reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in reserve, in which case they will arrive together." If you choose not to embark the unit in the transport they will not arrive together.

Captain Antivas wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:I am looking and can find it, could you give a Page#, and Paragrph Location?

I already did.

Actually you posted the sentence that I interpreted differently than you not its location, unless you did earlier.

Captain Antivas wrote:A unit and their Dedicated Transport are counted as a single unit for the purposes of calculating the number of units that can remain in reserves and actually deploying 50% of your army first turn. Even though they are counted as one unit they are not forced to arrive together. "Similarly, the player must specify if any units in reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in reserve, in which case they will arrive together." If you choose not to embark the unit in the transport they will not arrive together.

It does not differentiate between Transports and Dedicated Transports so it could be taken either way. Because a Dedicated Transport is always a Transport, but not all Transports are Dedicated. It could be taken either way, though I am more inclined to read it your way as now you pointed it out to me.

Yes Someone has Changed Someone’s Mind On Dakka!