Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Yeah, the two monotheist Legions with Codices have both lost access to regular CSM - all DG Astartes infantry are now types of Plague Marines, and the only TS Astartes which survived the Rubric of Ahriman intact were Sorcerers.

As for second HQ recommendations for a TS Battalion - Daemon Prince with Wings, being TS gives it an extra psychic power, with eighteen powers to choose from. (Exalted Sorcerer On Disc is also really good.)

With your CSM being Scourged renegades, they could be in a TZEENTCH Battalion right now with your TS, buuuut that loses out on both faction’s Legion perks (the TS one is an excellent range boost for spells) - I’d recommend a third TS Troops unit so that you can keep them in a dedicated detachment (you could split the Rubrics into two units, or add five more Cultists).

Thanks. I've actually removed the Scourged and have a new list that's just Daemons and TS:

Tzaangors (20) (18 with Tzaangor Blades, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 165
Tzaangor Shaman (1) (with Force Stave and Blade): 90
Tzaangor Enlightened (3) (with Divining Spears and Blades): 48
Tzaangor Skyfires (3) with Fatecaster Greatbows): 51
Cultists (5) 3 with Autoguns, 2 with Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons): 25
Kairic Cultists 11 [treated the same as regular Cultists] (with Brutal Assault Weapons): 55
Exalted Flamer (2): 140
Fateskimmer (2): 260
Changecaster (1): 65
Pink Horrors (20) (1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 165
Blue Horrors (10): 50
Lord of Change with Baleful Sword (1): 275
Exalted Sorcerer [Special Character] (1) (with Inferno Bolt Pistol and Force Stave): 122
Rubric Marines (10) (with Inferno Boltguns, one with Soulreaper Cannon): 188
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings (1) (with Hellforged Sword): 180
Helbrute (1) [Thousand Sons] (with Twinlascannon and Missile Launcher): 120

Total points: 1,999

I'm up in the air if whether I should cut back somewhere else and add more Rubrics or not. I could remove the Blue Horrors and one Exalted Flamer, though Exalted Flamers are really good. Also, if I love just one Pink Horror, the perks of having 20+ Pinks are suddenly gone.

Can someone explain to me why Tsangors are so good? I don't have the thousand sons codex, I only have the chaos daemons codex.

The infernal Enrapturess - 4 games in

So I have played one practice and 3 RTT games using the Enrapturess so far. (I call mine Janis in honor of Janis Joplin who could really scream)

I am kind of liking her. Janis's guns are reliable at BS2 but not enough AP or ROF.

However just the threat of doubles = Perils of the Warp makes my opponent play back with their psychers.

My last game vs Thousand sons was funny with Ahriman flying further into his corner each turn as Janis advanced. Also had two rubric sorcerers pop themselves with back to back doubles (4's and then 5's) which was a pretty good laugh. (CP's were gone so no rerolls)

All that and writing this I just remembered I could have tried to bring models back as well

How about you all? what are your experiences?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Tsangors are so good? I don't have the thousand sons codex, I only have the chaos daemons codex.

For the same price as a Plaguebearer, or two points more than a Cultist, they have S&T4, 5++, their melee is AP-1 with a reroll to hit Characters, they can take an upgrade to +1 advance & charge, they can be babysat by a shaman for +1 to hit, they can benefit from Veterans of the Long War and Warptime (and Weaver of Fates & Glamour of Tzeentch).

As an Elites unit, they’d be ok, but this is a Troops unit that fuels Stratagems as well. They serve well as CP battery, screen, and horde. Also if you wanna really open the TS angle, they can be Mutalith’d as well.

So today's errata to Chapter Approved/Wrath and Rapture changes the shooting attack on Gore Hounds from Assault 1 to Assault D6, making it exactly a flamer. So no longer the absolute worst upgrade in the game, instead just 50% overpriced compared to normal Imperial/Chaos flamers. *shrug*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lindsay40k wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Tsangors are so good? I don't have the thousand sons codex, I only have the chaos daemons codex.

For the same price as a Plaguebearer, or two points more than a Cultist, they have S&T4, 5++, their melee is AP-1 with a reroll to hit Characters, they can take an upgrade to +1 advance & charge, they can be babysat by a shaman for +1 to hit, they can benefit from Veterans of the Long War and Warptime (and Weaver of Fates & Glamour of Tzeentch).

As an Elites unit, they’d be ok, but this is a Troops unit that fuels Stratagems as well. They serve well as CP battery, screen, and horde. Also if you wanna really open the TS angle, they can be Mutalith’d as well.

Plus still being a viable turn 1 assault option via Dark Matter Crystal.

Definitely better than that Assault 1 nonsense typo, but... eh.

That's more than half of another hound, and more than an extra bloodletter in the horde.

If they'd knock it down to 6 where it belongs I think it would be pretty cool.

Hey dudes - got another noob question for you, in regards to Burning Chariots this time.

Say my chariot gets charged. On my turn, it gets to Overwatch with its D6 S5 pistol or 3 lascannon shots.

Assuming it survives, on my turn it can:
- shoot its D6 pistol shots into the unit that charged it;
- make 3 S5 -1AP melee attacks from the chariot's profile,
- make 6 attacks with its screamers.

Is that right? If so, the chariot sounds like a pretty sweet flying tank to send up and down harassing units that don't want to charge it for fear of getting f'ed up next turn, and it has a good chance of surviving w/ it's 8 wounds and a 4++ save.

 tzurk wrote:
Hey dudes - got another noob question for you, in regards to Burning Chariots this time.

Say my chariot gets charged. On my turn, it gets to Overwatch with its D6 S5 pistol or 3 lascannon shots.

Assuming it survives, on my turn it can:
- shoot its D6 pistol shots into the unit that charged it;
- make 3 S5 -1AP melee attacks from the chariot's profile,
- make 6 attacks with its screamers.

Is that right? If so, the chariot sounds like a pretty sweet flying tank to send up and down harassing units that don't want to charge it for fear of getting f'ed up next turn, and it has a good chance of surviving w/ it's 8 wounds and a 4++ save.

It would overwatch when a unit charges it on your opponents turn. It could also fall back if it survives, because it has the fly keyword, and shoot either weapon or as you said fire it's pistol and all it's close combat attacks. If you put 3 or so near a fateskimmer they'll all also be +1 str so that flamer pistol will become even more deadly.

Only problem is they loose the charachter keyword that exalted flamers have. Which would mean for 40 less points you would get all the same shooting but get to hide behind 30-60 pink horrors which are often very hard to shift!

I agree.
Compared to pre-CA exalted, it was a worthy question due to the improved speed, the sheer body bulk and the addead melee abilities.

But with EF getting a massive discount in CA and the chariot not, the point difference is too big now. you just can't justify a 110 for a chariot when an EF is mere 70.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I agree.
Compared to pre-CA exalted, it was a worthy question due to the improved speed, the sheer body bulk and the addead melee abilities.

But with EF getting a massive discount in CA and the chariot not, the point difference is too big now. you just can't justify a 110 for a chariot when an EF is mere 70.

Do you have success with these. 3 shots with a short range (hitting on 4 if you move) seems lackluster.

Maxwell00 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I agree.
Compared to pre-CA exalted, it was a worthy question due to the improved speed, the sheer body bulk and the addead melee abilities.

But with EF getting a massive discount in CA and the chariot not, the point difference is too big now. you just can't justify a 110 for a chariot when an EF is mere 70.

Do you have success with these. 3 shots with a short range (hitting on 4 if you move) seems lackluster.

Those 3 shots hit like a truck for the now 70 point model theyrr attached to, especially considering it can hide as a character and fly around with a great movement speed.

 vaklor4 wrote:

Maxwell00 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I agree.
Compared to pre-CA exalted, it was a worthy question due to the improved speed, the sheer body bulk and the addead melee abilities.

But with EF getting a massive discount in CA and the chariot not, the point difference is too big now. you just can't justify a 110 for a chariot when an EF is mere 70.

Do you have success with these. 3 shots with a short range (hitting on 4 if you move) seems lackluster.

Those 3 shots hit like a truck for the now 70 point model theyrr attached to, especially considering it can hide as a character and fly around with a great movement speed.

They are now a much more reasonable prosepct at 70pts and are a useful anti charge unit too. I used to play flamers like this but they're easily picked off. Whereas hiding 3 EF in your deathball makes it easier to punish a charge.

they are decent in casual game now at 70pts/model

If you’re running Chaos soup, 70pts gets you five Havocs but it won’t even pay for their first Lascannon. Short range is mitigated by the Character rule making it like a concealed magnum. In fact, short range opens the possibility of using it to scarecrow big targets - as long as it has a decent screen, it’s a brave tank or dread that approaches. Definitely bumping the EF on my painting queue high up, and the same for the one in my build queue

Should be fun running three of them in a mono daemons list. With a herald nearby we're wounding T8 on 3s and T5 on 2s. Should come in handy for dealing with flyers or 2nd floor Primaris or oblits as mono daemons.

 acsmedic wrote:
The infernal Enrapturess - 4 games in

So I have played one practice and 3 RTT games using the Enrapturess so far. (I call mine Janis in honor of Janis Joplin who could really scream)

I am kind of liking her. Janis's guns are reliable at BS2 but not enough AP or ROF.

However just the threat of doubles = Perils of the Warp makes my opponent play back with their psychers.

My last game vs Thousand sons was funny with Ahriman flying further into his corner each turn as Janis advanced. Also had two rubric sorcerers pop themselves with back to back doubles (4's and then 5's) which was a pretty good laugh. (CP's were gone so no rerolls)

All that and writing this I just remembered I could have tried to bring models back as well

How about you all? what are your experiences?

I have had a similar experience. It made my Eldar opponent stop casting extra powers he didn't deem to be essential. Do you run just one or two? I have been running one so far but in larger games with a double battalion I may start running two. We just have so much room in our lists now.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 acsmedic wrote:
The infernal Enrapturess - 4 games in

So I have played one practice and 3 RTT games using the Enrapturess so far. (I call mine Janis in honor of Janis Joplin who could really scream)

I am kind of liking her. Janis's guns are reliable at BS2 but not enough AP or ROF.

However just the threat of doubles = Perils of the Warp makes my opponent play back with their psychers.

My last game vs Thousand sons was funny with Ahriman flying further into his corner each turn as Janis advanced. Also had two rubric sorcerers pop themselves with back to back doubles (4's and then 5's) which was a pretty good laugh. (CP's were gone so no rerolls)

All that and writing this I just remembered I could have tried to bring models back as well

How about you all? what are your experiences?

I have had a similar experience. It made my Eldar opponent stop casting extra powers he didn't deem to be essential. Do you run just one or two? I have been running one so far but in larger games with a double battalion I may start running two. We just have so much room in our lists now.

Just 1 so far. My lists are tight on points as I am running 501 points of Helldrakes (3) in a CSM Air Wing detachment... they have been fantastic distractions that die, but usually require quite a bit of effort to kill. During which the rest of the list closes in. I think 2 will be too much. I'd rather have an exalted chariot or put it towards another prince or keeper. I find that you need 2-3 hearlds for that sweet +1 S locus.

Anybody got a good idea as to how to convert/build a harp?

I already have six Heralds so I can't add another one, meaning one of my current foot Heralds needs converting if I want to use the new one with the silly name.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Anybody got a good idea as to how to convert/build a harp?

I already have six Heralds so I can't add another one, meaning one of my current foot Heralds needs converting if I want to use the new one with the silly name.

Does it have to be a harp? I would think any instrument would do, like a guitar (there are plenty of those bits out there) or maybe a Drum out of some heads?

There's also the trumpet from the Daemonettes or Seekers kits, if little to no effort is desired.

As for harp, I think using the icons of Slaanesh and instruments, you could build a decent enough frame, and then just use dental floss for the strings. That, or roll thicker strings out of green stuff.

I'd like the conversion to be recognizably an Infernal Enrapturess (ugh) and to avoid any confusion with my Daemonette musicians, so the trumpets/horns are out sadly.

A guitar-type thing could work, though I think an 'axe' would look silly in the hands of a Daemon. Perhaps a lute.

Ooh, ooh. A double-bass, perhaps?

Re the harp (lyre, I guess) I'll see what I can knock together from a few Icons, thanks.

It’s the instrument being a damned soul that necessitates a big base that’ll keep it WYSIWYG. Make someone’s ribcage into a xylophone? Have someone lugging around a gigantic amp?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RE making harp strings - get to a model shop (as in, railways) and get some thin poly rods. They’ll take paint and hold their shape. Can even provide a little scaffolding to keep the whole construction stable.

 acsmedic wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 acsmedic wrote:
The infernal Enrapturess - 4 games in

So I have played one practice and 3 RTT games using the Enrapturess so far. (I call mine Janis in honor of Janis Joplin who could really scream)

I am kind of liking her. Janis's guns are reliable at BS2 but not enough AP or ROF.

However just the threat of doubles = Perils of the Warp makes my opponent play back with their psychers.

My last game vs Thousand sons was funny with Ahriman flying further into his corner each turn as Janis advanced. Also had two rubric sorcerers pop themselves with back to back doubles (4's and then 5's) which was a pretty good laugh. (CP's were gone so no rerolls)

All that and writing this I just remembered I could have tried to bring models back as well

How about you all? what are your experiences?

I have had a similar experience. It made my Eldar opponent stop casting extra powers he didn't deem to be essential. Do you run just one or two? I have been running one so far but in larger games with a double battalion I may start running two. We just have so much room in our lists now.

Just 1 so far. My lists are tight on points as I am running 501 points of Helldrakes (3) in a CSM Air Wing detachment... they have been fantastic distractions that die, but usually require quite a bit of effort to kill. During which the rest of the list closes in. I think 2 will be too much. I'd rather have an exalted chariot or put it towards another prince or keeper. I find that you need 2-3 hearlds for that sweet +1 S locus.

Ah, I play mono Slaanesh Daemons so I have a bit more room in my lists with the favorable point changes. That air wing detachment sounds like a great idea though... my main issue anymore is flyers. Besides my DPs and the new harp I don’t have an answer to them.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'd like the conversion to be recognizably an Infernal Enrapturess (ugh) and to avoid any confusion with my Daemonette musicians, so the trumpets/horns are out sadly.

A guitar-type thing could work, though I think an 'axe' would look silly in the hands of a Daemon. Perhaps a lute.

Ooh, ooh. A double-bass, perhaps?

Re the harp (lyre, I guess) I'll see what I can knock together from a few Icons, thanks.

Honestly, I was considering getting the Eldar Triumvirate, cuz the Yncarne would make an awesome Slaanesh Prince...and the Yvraine would be a perfect IE base; swap an arm to the instrument, a Herald’s head from the chariot kit, and a huge claw on the left arm. Just shave off the Eldar runes, and good to go!

That's interesting.

Thanks for the reminder about the larger base, Lindsay40k. That had slipped my mind.

I wonder if I could chop a bunch of the trumpet/horns up and glue them back together in some sort of Daemonic Doom-Siren type of thing...

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 acsmedic wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 acsmedic wrote:
The infernal Enrapturess - 4 games in

So I have played one practice and 3 RTT games using the Enrapturess so far. (I call mine Janis in honor of Janis Joplin who could really scream)

I am kind of liking her. Janis's guns are reliable at BS2 but not enough AP or ROF.

However just the threat of doubles = Perils of the Warp makes my opponent play back with their psychers.

My last game vs Thousand sons was funny with Ahriman flying further into his corner each turn as Janis advanced. Also had two rubric sorcerers pop themselves with back to back doubles (4's and then 5's) which was a pretty good laugh. (CP's were gone so no rerolls)

All that and writing this I just remembered I could have tried to bring models back as well

How about you all? what are your experiences?

I have had a similar experience. It made my Eldar opponent stop casting extra powers he didn't deem to be essential. Do you run just one or two? I have been running one so far but in larger games with a double battalion I may start running two. We just have so much room in our lists now.

Just 1 so far. My lists are tight on points as I am running 501 points of Helldrakes (3) in a CSM Air Wing detachment... they have been fantastic distractions that die, but usually require quite a bit of effort to kill. During which the rest of the list closes in. I think 2 will be too much. I'd rather have an exalted chariot or put it towards another prince or keeper. I find that you need 2-3 hearlds for that sweet +1 S locus.

Ah, I play mono Slaanesh Daemons so I have a bit more room in my lists with the favorable point changes. That air wing detachment sounds like a great idea though... my main issue anymore is flyers. Besides my DPs and the new harp I don’t have an answer to them.

HellDrakes are ok against flyers auto hit on the flamer and 2+ in combat. However where they shine is almost always charging something T1 and absorbing lots of firepower giving the rest of the army a chance to get close (they die every game but that is ok). I have consistently gotten 4 first round charges (seekers)

Hi fellow Neverborn,

I'm new to Daemons and making a force with 1000p of Renegades and Heretics, 0-500 points of a Questor Traitoris, and 500-1000 points of Daemons.|

What Daemons would best compliment my chaos mortals?

For reference my list is currently:

renegade commander, power fist 33
disciple command squad, missile launcher, command vox 49
disciple command squad, missile launcher, command vox 49
20 militia, 2 missile launchers, icon 115
20 militia, 2 missile launchers, icon 115
20 militia, 2 missile launchers, icon 115
2 leman russ, heavy bolters, heavy stubbers 340
basilisk, heavy stubber 110
6 renegade heavy weapons teams, heavy stubbers 30
6 renegade heavy weapons teams, heavy stubbers 30
6 renegade heavy weapons teams, heavy stubbers 30

daemon prince of ?

Slaanesh or Khorne. You need (IMO) mobility, melee and psyker-defence, so I vote Slaanesh.

Seekers for T1/2 charge, Fiends to prevent Fall Back, Daemonettes to mop up. I'd consider a KoS, over a DP.

FWIW, I wouldn't bother with HBs on the LR, they'll never hit anything and can buy you two Bloodletters or nearly three Daemonettes

Hmm, those do sound good.

However I have a weird particular problem, in that I want to use Nighthaunt revenants etc for models. I guess that makes me lean toward more sword-armed types, unless i could represent daemonettes somehow with more obvious weaopns

 ph34r wrote:
Hi fellow Neverborn,

I'm new to Daemons and making a force with 1000p of Renegades and Heretics, 0-500 points of a Questor Traitoris, and 500-1000 points of Daemons.|

What Daemons would best compliment my chaos mortals?

For reference my list is currently:

renegade commander, power fist 33
disciple command squad, missile launcher, command vox 49
disciple command squad, missile launcher, command vox 49
20 militia, 2 missile launchers, icon 115
20 militia, 2 missile launchers, icon 115
20 militia, 2 missile launchers, icon 115
2 leman russ, heavy bolters, heavy stubbers 340
basilisk, heavy stubber 110
6 renegade heavy weapons teams, heavy stubbers 30
6 renegade heavy weapons teams, heavy stubbers 30
6 renegade heavy weapons teams, heavy stubbers 30

daemon prince of ?

With what you have so far you'll be able to clear chaff pretty well so you need some anti tank and anti elire. You're going to want a second battallion, 8 CP won't be enough to keep using rotate ion sheilds and trail of destruction on your knight. So bloodletters are your best option. I'd take 1 or 2 20 -30 man blobs with the banner Plus you csn take the Khorne DP with the skullreaver relic for some serious anti titanic.

You don't need to go mono Khorne though, so you could take brimstones or nurglings to fill a cheap detachment. Although rerolling charges is good it's not essential and bloodletters can burn through cp quickly.

Finally I'd consider the Castallan (if you have the points) or gallant (if you want a cheaper bullet sponge) for your knight. The Castallan with adequate bodies to protect from mele and smite is a thing to behold. Plus multiple knights isn't great with renegades.