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Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Does the Underhive Market actually have any in-game functionality?

Because looking at it, while it looks nice, it just seems like €40 battlefield decoration.



 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Yeah people have been excited about this and I'm not gonna disagree since they can like what they like, but since you mention it, it looks a bit threadbare to me, easy pass (and I'm a man that loves his terrain).
   
Made in de
Fully-charged Electropriest






 Arbitrator wrote:
I'm one of the most negative nancies here, but even I'm starting to roll my eyes at how 50% of all new specialist game reveal posts are "no plastic = no buy."


I wonder how GW survived when they sold mostly metal miniatures.

Sure, larger Resin kits are usually more work (and tend to have some faults), but the man-sized models I got from FW in the last few years (mostly Necromunda) were fine. And those ARE more detailed than the plastic stuff. Maybe they got better QC and release agents over the years. I for one remember bad casts in plastic, metal and resin (mostly old FW models and Finecast) from GW. Well, if it happens, there's the customer service.
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Metal is fundamentally better at retaining detail than plastic. idk why, I'm not a mini designer, but it's what they say, and from what I've seen it's true (as you have also noticed), so I see no reason not to believe. ofc it has its drawbacks (as does resin, which can hold as much detail if not more). EU pumped the price of metal minis due to regulations. I suspect plastic was always cheaper, but the desirable properties (aside from price) of metal made metal a better choice until the plastics technology eventually caught up (almost). The initial plastic releases were pretty dire, I wouldn't buy that sht, and I decided that when I was like 12 y/o. I don't think they could have survived on plastics given how bad it was, initially.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/29 21:40:36


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 TBD wrote:
Does the Underhive Market actually have any in-game functionality?

Because looking at it, while it looks nice, it just seems like €40 battlefield decoration.

Well, if you really break it down no model of any kind serves any purpose beyond "decoration" because they're all just abstracted tokens that could be replaced with a variety of coins or paper cutouts.

But iirc the market does reportedly have some attached rules, like looting stuff from stalls (this may be confined to specific scenarios, though).

Baxx wrote:
A campaign should let all participants gain income and be able to grow even when losing. Blood Bowl does this, GorkaMorka does this, Mordheim does this, NCE does this.

New Necromunda does not. You lose, you have a miserable campaign. You win, you keep winning.

I understand the trepidation towards the concept of an "active GM" (because individuals are biased, and can be unpredictable) but there are a number of house rules you can install that automate underdog relief.

1. roll scenarios on an expanded custom chart instead of the tiny chart printed in the campaign section. The single greatest equalizer between a strong gang and a weak gang is a scenario that uses random crews & random crew sizes, so the more likely those scenarios are to come up, the better.

2. do not allow the top dogs in a campaign to roll on the House Favours tables. This will require the Arb to track everybody's gang rating game-to-game, though, and determine how big the buffer should be between "top rating" and "eligible to roll House Favours".

3. use the Underdog tactics cards, many of which are quite powerful

4. this one kind of benefits strong and weak gangs equally, but I feel that most campaigns should retain the "+1 XP for surviving a battle" rule from older GW skirmish games. It helps address your concern that losing gangs do not develop after losses
   
Made in us
Painting Within the Lines





Tangentville, New Jersey

Aww man, that scabber is too damned cool. I might have to finally break down and make a FW order for the first time, well, ever.

On the plus side, that means it gives me an excuse to pick up that lady doc I've wanted for years.


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Albertorius wrote:
Funny, because I didn't say that. I did say "FW only = no buy", though.
And a lot of us won't buy from Forge World due to their scummy local currency policies that see international customers paying more for literally no gain.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Funny, because I didn't say that. I did say "FW only = no buy", though.
And a lot of us won't buy from Forge World due to their scummy local currency policies that see international customers paying more for literally no gain.


So... yeah.
   
Made in au
[DCM]
.. .-.. .-.. ..- -- .. -. .- - ..






Toowoomba, Australia

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Funny, because I didn't say that. I did say "FW only = no buy", though.
And a lot of us won't buy from Forge World due to their scummy local currency policies that see international customers paying more for literally no gain.


This is the exact reason for me.
I don't mind a premium for Forge World vs GW but price gouging for the sake of it means no purchases from me.

2022: Games Played:0/Models Bought:10/Sold:0/Painted: 13
2020-2021: Games Played:42/Models Bought:851/Sold:471/Painted:336
2016-19: Games Played:369/Models Bought:772/Sold:378/ Painted:268
2012-15: Games Played:412/Models Bought: 1163/Sold:730/Painted:436 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





 TBD wrote:
Does the Underhive Market actually have any in-game functionality?

Because looking at it, while it looks nice, it just seems like €40 battlefield decoration.

Yes. Virtually all GW terrain has in-game rules and effects. Got 12 pages packed with terrain rules only.
   
Made in de
Fully-charged Electropriest






JWBS wrote:
Metal is fundamentally better at retaining detail than plastic. idk why, I'm not a mini designer, but it's what they say, and from what I've seen it's true (as you have also noticed), so I see no reason not to believe. ofc it has its drawbacks (as does resin, which can hold as much detail if not more). EU pumped the price of metal minis due to regulations. I suspect plastic was always cheaper, but the desirable properties (aside from price) of metal made metal a better choice until the plastics technology eventually caught up (almost). The initial plastic releases were pretty dire, I wouldn't buy that sht, and I decided that when I was like 12 y/o. I don't think they could have survived on plastics given how bad it was, initially.


Well, I liked the Tyranids and Genestealers (not the Hybrids but their weapons).

Resin has the potential of the best details, but the production is more time-consuming and the moulds are rather short-lived (though I don't know how exactly they produce).

Plastic is rather easy, but you need an expensive mould and prior someone who can translate design wishes into something workable. Believe me, it's not that easy... I actually work in that industry in a company that have mould creation and production in one house... don't ask...
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Oh but some of their initial plastics were so bad. I'm not talking extraneous bits like shields or arms, I mean their full plastic kits. I remember when I was 13 (it had been my nirthday and I went in to buy some minis) and they had just released this thing https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldar/comments/las3tw/i_see_your_multipart_guardians_i_raise_you_my_2nd/ and the redshirt was telling me it was the best thing ever and super cool and I should buy it. I took one look at it and decided that this grown man was was stupider than I was (being naive I didn't realise it was just his sales pitch) and promptly bought some of the existing eldar metal blisters. But to be fair to them they did eventually make their plastics almost as good as their metals (actually better nowadays, but that's in part due to other stuff like design philosophy etc). But this initial plastic stuff was real garbage.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






beast_gts wrote:
Baxx wrote:
If GM is so important, how does it have any effecet on this?
If one gang is pulling away from the others you can ask them to sit out a few rounds while the others catch up, or throw NPC Enforcers / Bounty Hunters / Chaos Spawn at them, or let other gangs team-up against them...


Or you have a chat with another player and roll into a game with the two gangs jumping hard in the paint against the upper hand- then the GM drops a load of ghouls, or a giant rampaging beast into the frey-

(Like we did in the old days)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Baxx wrote:
 TBD wrote:
Does the Underhive Market actually have any in-game functionality?

Because looking at it, while it looks nice, it just seems like €40 battlefield decoration.

Yes. Virtually all GW terrain has in-game rules and effects. Got 12 pages packed with terrain rules only.


Specifically there's a scenario where you fight through the marketplace, and there's.. repercussions... for your scrappy young upstarts for it. Added, there is a reason why they have these particular pieces in the set. (I/E Outlanders)

This book is as close to old school- Put your gang together, and GO. The gangs have pluses and minuses, and in that "Marketplace", you're getting a chance for more drops and supplies the way an outcast gang can get them- by hook or by crook.

Make your own stalls, and use those shipping containers, and make a few more stalls if you get this set. There's not a lot in the box, and the price is going to bend you over the table for what's in it.
(I've got one. Trust me, you're going to need more stalls, because it is on par with fighting in a maze.)

you're going to throw down with your enemies within 6 to 12 inches, in that closed in and cluttered areas.

*I don't want to give spoilers, so I don't know how to talk around the subject. I hope I didn't give out too much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/30 04:11:25




At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, I won't buy FW, even less so after Brexit.



Why not? FW stuff doesn't come with extra fees for us, poor rejected europeans . Do you buy from GW? It's the same thing.

 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Blackie wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, I won't buy FW, even less so after Brexit.



Why not? FW stuff doesn't come with extra fees for us, poor rejected europeans . Do you buy from GW? It's the same thing.


Directly? No, never.

And the FW extra fees are already in the extra special prices they put to ROW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/30 09:00:42


 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

But it's the same for GW, ordering directly doesn't add extra fees, unlike other generic stuff imported from UK. They are already included in the current prices.

To be honest that is much more true for GW stuff than FW stuff, with the latter that has always had very high prices.

However plastic Necromunda is quite cheap for GW standards.

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Blackie wrote:
But it's the same for GW, ordering directly doesn't add extra fees, unlike other generic stuff imported from UK. They are already included in the current prices.
FW prices are higher in non-UK countries for literally no addition. And you have to pay shipping on top of that.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

That has nothing to do with brexit though. Shipping can actually be free if I remember correctly (I ignore anything FW anyway), although it requires a much higher sum than the regular order from GW.

 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Blackie wrote:
That has nothing to do with brexit though. Shipping can actually be free if I remember correctly (I ignore anything FW anyway), although it requires a much higher sum than the regular order from GW.

No, that doesn't have anything to do with brexit.

Additional waiting times, customs hassles (even if you don't accrue additional fees, you will be processed differently) and general unpleasantness very much does, though.

And then the extra cost of "free postage", yes. I simply don't have enough that I'd like to buy to qualify.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/30 11:11:58


 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Well, can't say about FW specifically because I'm not interested their stuff but last time I ordered directly from GW (july or august 2021) I placed the order on a sunday and it arrived on thursday, just 4 days. And it was an order worthy of several hundreds, with over 20 kits and all exclusive material barring a single blister. Same for other orders from the UK that I placed, not GW related.

Those delays only happened within the first months after brexit, and they were a massive pita yes, but now things go pretty smooth.

All I'm saying is that if you're interested in FW stuff you can definitely buy it without worries, all the unpleasentness that came from brexit are either a thing of the past or fake news now.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Blackie wrote:
That has nothing to do with brexit though. Shipping can actually be free if I remember correctly (I ignore anything FW anyway), although it requires a much higher sum than the regular order from GW.


Not strictly true. Brexit has made us less competitive and so the £ has suffered compared to almost any other major currency since GW set their regional price exchange rates.

Even if FW prices had remained the same in Australian $ and £*, Brexit would make it look worse in real exchange rates (even if Australians would in reality be paying the same, in this theoretical case).

*I know GW also applied their regional exchange rates to FW when they didn't previously and that there has been price increases outside of currency fluctuations.



   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Blackie wrote:
Well, can't say about FW specifically because I'm not interested their stuff but last time I ordered directly from GW (july or august 2021) I placed the order on a sunday and it arrived on thursday, just 4 days. And it was an order worthy of several hundreds, with over 20 kits and all exclusive material barring a single blister. Same for other orders from the UK that I placed, not GW related.

Those delays only happened within the first months after brexit, and they were a massive pita yes, but now things go pretty smooth.

All I'm saying is that if you're interested in FW stuff you can definitely buy it without worries, all the unpleasentness that came from brexit are either a thing of the past or fake news now.


As I said, not really. This is something that happens with all companies, not GW. And buying GW products follow a whole different process, as they can "outsource" the order to the local GW company instead of doing it from the UK.

As with anything else that goes through customs, even if the company does it itself and not you... you might be lucky and have no problem, but can also be unlucky and have loads of issues. Issues which I won't have if I order from a local store, or from a EU one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/30 12:50:40


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Wandering in the Wilderness...

JWBS wrote:

Just buy a GW Neophytes kit. Cheap as anything since they're abundant in the SC, 2-3x more options than this kit, and look at least twice as good.


Yeah they are nice but they do look very industrial so I'll combine bits from both.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Someone on one of the Necromunda Facebook groups got a letter from GW saying that the Outcast gang would return.

Somehow they interpreted this as the box would return with 6 models rather than 12, not understanding how sprues work...

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Someone on one of the Necromunda Facebook groups got a letter from GW saying that the Outcast gang would return.

Somehow they interpreted this as the box would return with 6 models rather than 12, not understanding how sprues work...


Oh, I dunno... I'm sure there is a premium that could be applied for breaking one sprue into 2 and putting half into each box

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Someone on one of the Necromunda Facebook groups got a letter from GW saying that the Outcast gang would return.

Somehow they interpreted this as the box would return with 6 models rather than 12, not understanding how sprues work...


I do wonder how these people are able to operate a device that connects to the internet

Posters on ignore list: 34

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Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The guy then deleted his post because people were pointing out the sprue thing and that the screenshotted GW letter said nothing about 6 models, and then he made a new one complaining about "incels".

It's become quite the good laugh.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The guy then deleted his post because people were pointing out the sprue thing and that the screenshotted GW letter said nothing about 6 models, and then he made a new one complaining about "incels".

It's become quite the good laugh.


"Look! Behind you! A three-headed monkey!" ^_^
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Arbitrator wrote:
I'm one of the most negative nancies here, but even I'm starting to roll my eyes at how 50% of all new specialist game reveal posts are "no plastic = no buy."


Forge world takes already abusive GW pricing and turns it up. For inconsistent quality (Sometimes great sometimes there's a great big hole in the middle of your model. And resin is just a much more sensitive material then plastic) and much more difficulty to work with as a hobbyist. I'm on the very edge of managing terminator and smaller sized forgeworld models, but for things bigger I'd literally have to hire a guy to put them together is a way that works. And corrects for, like, all the warping and air bubbles and gak.

   
Made in gb
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot




UK

stratigo wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
I'm one of the most negative nancies here, but even I'm starting to roll my eyes at how 50% of all new specialist game reveal posts are "no plastic = no buy."


Forge world takes already abusive GW pricing and turns it up. For inconsistent quality (Sometimes great sometimes there's a great big hole in the middle of your model. And resin is just a much more sensitive material then plastic) and much more difficulty to work with as a hobbyist. I'm on the very edge of managing terminator and smaller sized forgeworld models, but for things bigger I'd literally have to hire a guy to put them together is a way that works. And corrects for, like, all the warping and air bubbles and gak.



My experience with a Gorgon has put me off buying other larger models.

I was fine with the hair dryer and hot water to straighten parts but the model just didn't seem to fit together well.

I was always happier with the early days one piece alternate turrets and the like.


Back on the main topic, I'll be happy for a chance to pick up a Outcast gang.

The spare parts mixed in with Cadians and WA Cannon Fodder will make some nice Blood Pact.

   
 
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