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 jhe90 wrote:

I do understand. That some strikes are not worth long term consequences of the short term gains. That they may be a tactical success but a larger stratigic failure.

When soldiers cannot do the job then lives are lost. You do need armies wiping out cities like crusades but when rules prevent soldiers doing there jobs effectively. There is no point in even being deployed.

To give you an idea of how long this has been the state of things....

Gentlemen:

Whilst marching to Portugal to a position which commands the approach to Madrid and the French forces, my officers have been diligently complying with you request which has been sent to HM ship from London to Lisbon and then by dispatch rider to our headquarters.

We have enumerated our saddles, bridles, tents, and tent poles, and all manner of sundry items for which His Majesty's government holds me accountable. I have dispatched reports on the character, wit, spleen of every officer. Each item and every farthing has been accounted for, with two regrettable exceptions for which I beg you indulgence.

Unfortunately, the sum of one shilling and ninepence remains unaccounted for in one infantry battalion's petty cash and there has been a hideous confusion as to the number of jars of raspberry jam issued to one cavalry regiment during a sandstorm in western Spain. This reprehensive carelessness may be related to the pressure of circumstances since we are at war with France, a fact which may have come as a bit of a surprise to you gentlemen in Whitehall.

This brings me to my present purpose, which is to request elucidation of my instructions from His Majesty's Government, so that I may better understand why I am dragging an army over these barren plains. I construe that perforce it must be one of two alternative duties, as given below. I shall pursue one with the best of my ability but I cannot do both.

1. To train an army of uniformed British clerks in Spain for the benefit of the accountants and copy-boys in London, or perchance

2. To see to it that the forces of Napoleon are driven out of Spain.

Your most obedient servant,

Wellington

Wasn't Wellington still Wellesley during the Peninsular Campaign? Fake news!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Wasn't Wellington still Wellesley during the Peninsular Campaign? Fake news!

Not so! He was first elevated to 'Viscount Wellington' in 1809 following his victory at Talavera in July of 1809.

From ISIL there is almost nothing left.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
From ISIL there is almost nothing left.

Not quite yet.

if they claim are true, then the ones returning from Syria etc, they may yet try and attack from within, i don't think the threat is gone.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
From ISIL there is almost nothing left.

Don't jinx it. And even if it's gone, something new will take it's place...(Cut off one head, two more shall take it's place. Hail Hydra)

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Freakazoitt wrote:
From ISIL there is almost nothing left.

Don't jinx it. And even if it's gone, something new will take it's place...(Cut off one head, two more shall take it's place. Hail Hydra)

Yeah. But we slain one the most potant hydra.

And better make sure to Kia Baghdadi, and other senior members if any left. Not people you want left. Dangerous loose ends.

Not like we would take them alive anyway, they know there fate, and they know there is no get out cause. I'd imagine the odds on taking alive to be low and risky.

jhe90 wrote:

 Freakazoitt wrote:
From ISIL there is almost nothing left.

Not quite yet.

if they claim are true, then the ones returning from Syria etc, they may yet try and attack from within, i don't think the threat is gone.

From a real state, which occupied most of Syria and threatened to spread further - turned into single small groups. ISIL as a state no longer exists.

BaronIveagh wrote:

 Freakazoitt wrote:
From ISIL there is almost nothing left.

Don't jinx it. And even if it's gone, something new will take it's place...(Cut off one head, two more shall take it's place. Hail Hydra)

Where do these heads grow from? From Saudi Arabia. Why can not you do anything about them? Because it is so beneficial to your government. "Western world" continue to rejoice in the "democratization" of Iraq, Libya and Syria and wonder where so many terrorists come from. Well, at least in Syria they were exterminated. There are Al-Quaeda related groups left (a.k.a. innocent humanitarian convoys), But they too have patrons and they can be destroyed only with permission. Well this is all the details. Globally, the problem can only be solved at a high level by uniting (impossible with the existing political system). Well, anyways, personally, I'm glad that ISIL destroyed. And you?

Uk defence Secretary does seem to think it's over yet.

Still got some 270 British fighters out there to deal with alone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5153613/Gavin-Williamson-Brits-fighting-be.html

Hopefully the Russians do us a favour and blow up any Western traitors, hm?

Dont really have any sympathy for someone born and raised in the first world, sees an oppressive religious theocracy in the Middle East, and decides 'Hey, I need in on that!'

 Crazyterran wrote:
Hopefully the Russians do us a favour and blow up any Western traitors, hm?

Dont really have any sympathy for someone born and raised in the first world, sees an oppressive religious theocracy in the Middle East, and decides 'Hey, I need in on that!'

Eh, that's the sort of job offer I'd be asking for Krugerrands as opposed to dollars or whatever monopoly money they printed locally. But yeah, you get all sorts of crazy when you combine Revolution with Religion.

Iraq has declared the war against Islamic State over and they won.

(with massive western support)

Though now the situation with Kurt's. This could get different as they want a state and would be unwilling to surrender ground and resources that would fund it.

Iraq was destroyed by West. Iraqis (including the Kurds) do not have a government, which they would respect and support (uniting together).

 jhe90 wrote:
Iraq has declared the war against Islamic State over and they won.

(with massive western support)

They pushed a rebel group out, largely with Iranian support, and Kurdish fighters pushing from a different direction.

Though now the situation with Kurt's. This could get different as they want a state and would be unwilling to surrender ground and resources that would fund it.

Different? This will likely turn bloody. Their goals aren't compatible, both groups are armed, and the Kurds have little support in the region and a lot of hostility towards them.

I am also curious what those Iranian militias will do and where they'll go, now that they aren't pointed at obvious religious enemies.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/12/09/middleeast/iraq-isis-military-liberated/index.html

Voss wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Iraq has declared the war against Islamic State over and they won.

(with massive western support)

They pushed a rebel group out, largely with Iranian support, and Kurdish fighters pushing from a different direction.

Though now the situation with Kurt's. This could get different as they want a state and would be unwilling to surrender ground and resources that would fund it.

Different? This will likely turn bloody. Their goals aren't compatible, both groups are armed, and the Kurds have little support in the region and a lot of hostility towards them.

I am also curious what those Iranian militias will do and where they'll go, now that they aren't pointed at obvious religious enemies.

Well militia tend not to go away.
But Iran might have a use for them... That's not good though.

Kurtds might not be a good place.

True. There will be yet more blood spilled in the sand, always is. Gah. Middle East is like the blood God. It will never be sated.

The Kurds are only group I'd even consider worth helping out there.. They deserve a state.
Them, thw other few minority who they worked with. Rest. They can enjoy there blood soaked sand.

On my Twitter today I’ve seen photos showing the destruction of a British commonwealth graves commission cemetery in Mosul. ISIS bulldozed the whole place. Even the Nazis respected war graves cemeteries, ISIS really haven’t a single shred of decency in them, there’s nothing they won’t desecrate and destroy. When the area becomes safe the CWGC say they’ll restore the cemetery.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
On my Twitter today I’ve seen photos showing the destruction of a British commonwealth graves commission cemetery in Mosul. ISIS bulldozed the whole place. Even the Nazis respected war graves cemeteries, ISIS really haven’t a single shred of decency in them, there’s nothing they won’t desecrate and destroy. When the area becomes safe the CWGC say they’ll restore the cemetery.

If i remember right, tombstones above a certain height are prohibited for religious reasons in certain Muslim countries. I also find it funny that Commonwealth war-graves are sacred, and lots of outrage over illegal Thai salvage making off with the ships of the Java sea, but no outrage at all when the US bulldozes native cemeteries to make way for profitable business.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
On my Twitter today I’ve seen photos showing the destruction of a British commonwealth graves commission cemetery in Mosul. ISIS bulldozed the whole place. Even the Nazis respected war graves cemeteries, ISIS really haven’t a single shred of decency in them, there’s nothing they won’t desecrate and destroy. When the area becomes safe the CWGC say they’ll restore the cemetery.

If i remember right, tombstones above a certain height are prohibited for religious reasons in certain Muslim countries. I also find it funny that Commonwealth war-graves are sacred, and lots of outrage over illegal Thai salvage making off with the ships of the Java sea, but no outrage at all when the US bulldozes native cemeteries to make way for profitable business.

Well might is right in this world. US goverment has the biggest guns.

It's never been any different. To think otherwise is rather silly.

The USA also isn't a commonwealth country so it's kinda an irrelevant point at this time and additionally is a country we can't discuss the various jerky things they do on this forum.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/middle-east-news/palestinians/1.833052

More trouble brewing in the middle east...
It's Gaza. Sini. That always brews trouble!

 jhe90 wrote:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/middle-east-news/palestinians/1.833052

More trouble brewing in the middle east...
It's Gaza. Sini. That always brews trouble!

ISIS attacks Hamas and Israel at the same time. No one would know who to shoot!

 BaronIveagh wrote:
ISIS attacks Hamas and Israel at the same time. No one would know who to shoot!

Or perhaps anyone even remotely sensible on the Israeli and Palestinian sides will finally realize there's way crazier people than them and decide to make a peace deal for real?

Spetulhu wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
ISIS attacks Hamas and Israel at the same time. No one would know who to shoot!

Or perhaps anyone even remotely sensible on the Israeli and Palestinian sides will finally realize there's way crazier people than them and decide to make a peace deal for real?

So it takes a nigh on genocidal death cult to create peace. well thats not osmthing id bet on at first.

More likely a bloody fight in Gaza for control, and both sides coming under regular terror attcks

 jhe90 wrote:


So it takes a nigh on genocidal death cult to create peace. well thats not osmthing id bet on at first.

More likely a bloody fight in Gaza for control, and both sides coming under regular terror attcks

So, Israel will lose 4 people again and call it a horrid terrorist attack and use it to justify killing another million non-combatants? I say, if ISIS and Israel go at it, let 'em, they deserve each other.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:


So it takes a nigh on genocidal death cult to create peace. well thats not osmthing id bet on at first.

More likely a bloody fight in Gaza for control, and both sides coming under regular terror attcks

So, Israel will lose 4 people again and call it a horrid terrorist attack and use it to justify killing another million non-combatants? I say, if ISIS and Israel go at it, let 'em, they deserve each other.

The hyperbole is strong with this one.

 djones520 wrote:


The hyperbole is strong with this one.

Sadly, no. If you add up the Israeli foreign ministries official numbers (since they like to spread them around a bit) about 4k Israeli civilians have died in terrorist attacks since 1948. Compare this to various humanitarian organizations, including the IRC pegging Palestinian casualties at near 6 million civilians killed in Israeli retaliations in the same time frame. This sadly jives with recent (since 2000) numbers, where only 4% of casualties are Israeli in any given conflict in Israel/Palestine.

Officially this policy of war against civilians, also known as 'total war' in war crimes circles, is refereed to by IDF as 'cutting the grass'. They bomb civilians neighborhoods to reduce the number of potential militants by killing civilians. As a matter of long term strategy. They just wait for the next excuse, which Hamas and others provide more often than not, and so the gak continues.

One of the better ones is an older one, the case of Colonel Yissachar Shadmi, who gave an order, illegal even there, to shoot all the non-jewish persons found out of their homes during a freshly imposed 24 hour curfew. While, fortunately for basic humanity, many of his commanders realized that having a curfew that they had not told anyone about may cause unnecessary casualties, and refused the order, one command carried out the order, which resulted in the deaths of 48 people, mostly 23 children, when they rolled through a village slaughtering everyone they met. While the officers who carried out the order were sentenced (and then pardoned), Shadmi was fined ONE CENT, not for the deaths, but for overstepping his authority by extending the curfew.

Sure thing Baron...phew...

 Elbows wrote:
Sure thing Baron...phew...

Well, if you want MORE...

In 2005 the Israeli high court found the IDF had used Palestinian Civilians as human shields in what they refereed to as the 'Neighbor Procedure' over 1200 times in the previous 5 years. This is a direct violation of Protocol 1 (1977) of the Geneva Conventions, and a specific intent war crime under the Rome Statute of 1998.

The US has spent $10 million US tax dollars a day to support the Israeli military and has used it's Security council veto to shut down UN attempts to prosecute war criminals. Some of these men named in these war crimes investigations were accused of, or admitted to, crimes that have not been seen since the death of Oskar Dirlewanger in 1945.