Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My last game (vs. SMs) went ok. I lost (or suspect I would have if we had had time to finish), but I had fun (my hawks took out the LR and my council did pretty well, but I forgot my jink saves). It looks like we're going to play again this weekend and so I'd like to float my list and get some opinions/advice. I'll be running my Eldar vs. SM, 2000 points.

These are the models I have:


And this is the list I was thinking of running:
HQ -
Jetcouncil
Farseer - Jetbike, RoWit, SS, Doom, Fortune
6x Warlock - Jetbike, 4x destructor, 1x enhance

Farseer - Singing Spear, RoWard, RoWit, SS, Mindwar, Guide (planning on swapping for book powers)

Troop -
5x Pathfinders
5x Pathfinders
3x Guardian Jetbikes (might have to proxy these)

Elite -
5x Fire Dragons
WS - tl Shuri-Cat, tl SL
5x Fire Dragons
WS - tl Shuri-Cat, tl SL

Fast Attack -
5x Warp Spiders - Exarch w/Suprise Assault & Withdraw
5x Swooping Hawks - Exarch w/Skyleap
5x Swooping Hawks - Exarch w/Skyleap

Heavy -
3x War Walker - 3x SL
2x War Walker - 2x SL

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and experience.

Grab embolden on one of the locks in the jetseer council, re roll all ld tests including psychic tests.

The spiders dont need suprise assault, but the dual death spinners is a must on the exarch. If you are taking withdraw, might want powerblades as well.

Instead of the hawks, I would grab 10 avengers with dual cats+bladestorm exarch and a wave serpent. Throw your footseer in here.

I was going to have the footseer with the walkers to give guide. Are you saying get rid of one of the destructors or enhance to make room for embolden (can warlocks have more than one power)?

I'll have to reread a bit of the codex again:
Why isn't it worth it to let the WS deep strike? I typically try to avoid CC with them, am I being too cautious?

I've lost a lot of confidence in DAs since they don't seem to dish out many kills (it seems easier to save ASC wounds now). The bigger issue for me is that they don't have any AT capabilities.
I'm also worried about sinking points into vehicles now (in 6th). Last game I had half of my vehicles dead before the bottom of turn 1 from (probably more from lack of BLOS terrain and forgetting jink rolls than anything) so now I'm a bit more nervous about taking them. I keep reading that Mechdar isn't as viable.

So how about this (2003 pts):
HQ -
Jetcouncil
Farseer - Jetbike, RoWit, SS, Doom, Fortune
6x Warlock - Jetbike, 4x destructor, 1x enhance

Farseer - Singing Spear, RoWard, RoWit, SS, Mindwar, Guide (planning on swapping for book powers)

Troop -
5x Pathfinders
5x Pathfinders
5x DA - Exarch, Dual ASC, Bladestorm
WS - under Shuri-Cannon, tl Shuri-Cannon
3x Guardian Jetbikes (think I can get these built at least)

Elite -
5x Fire Dragons
WS - tl Shuri-Cat, tl Shuri-Cannon
5x Fire Dragons
WS - tl Shuri-Cat, tl Shuri-Cannon

Fast Attack -
5x Warp Spiders
5x Swooping Hawks - Exarch w/Skyleap

Heavy -
3x War Walker - 3x SL
2x War Walker - 2x SL

I'd consider sider adding the Baron to the Jetseer council, taking a Unit of Wyches/Kabalites in a Venom and taking a Voidraven for anti-air (or aireal dominance if you opponent doesn't use fliers). A 2++ re-rollable save makes that council nigh impregnable. I'd drop a destructor for embolen as suggested.

You're taking a Farseer with book powers which can be ace but needs a big unit to maximise the effectiveness of it. Walking for Farseer on his own to help the Warwalkers isn't worth it and he'll get sniped too easily. I'd consider getting him a Jetbike too as his buffs could again really help the Council particularly if you took a load of singing spears.

DAs should be full strength if you're going to take blades storm.

The first thing that I notice is that you have a lot of very small squads. They will get slaughtered, or they will run away after losing 2 guys. Besides, Hawks kinda suck unless you're going against Guard or some other strong Mech army.

Find the points to have a 10 man DA squad, to make bladestorm worth it.
Hope this Helps

-Farseer Tahril

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'd consider sider adding the Baron to the Jetseer council, taking a Unit of Wyches/Kabalites in a Venom and taking a Voidraven for anti-air (or aireal dominance if you opponent doesn't use fliers). A 2++ re-rollable save makes that council nigh impregnable. I'd drop a destructor for embolen as suggested.

You're taking a Farseer with book powers which can be ace but needs a big unit to maximise the effectiveness of it. Walking for Farseer on his own to help the Warwalkers isn't worth it and he'll get sniped too easily. I'd consider getting him a Jetbike too as his buffs could again really help the Council particularly if you took a load of singing spears.

DAs should be full strength if you're going to take blades storm.

Maybe someday. Right now I don't have any of those models. Probably not though, I'm probably a bit of Biel-Tan enthusiast: I'm not really keen on the whole allies concept - Eldar are purists, we don't hid behind anyone, even their fallen cousins.

Anyway, should I consider slimming the Fire Dragons down to one unit?

If I got rid of the WS and just made one a foot FD unit I could make the list as follows:
So how about this (1998 pts):
HQ -
Jetcouncil
Farseer - Singing Spear, Jetbike, RoWit, SS, Doom, Fortune
5x Warlock - Jetbike, 3x destructor, 1x enhance, 1x embolden (I missed that I only had 5 from the start)

Farseer - Singing Spear, RoWard, RoWit, SS, Mindwar, Guide (planning on swapping for book powers)

Troop -
5x Pathfinders
5x Pathfinders
10x DA - Exarch, Dual ASC, Bladestorm
WS - under Shuri-Cannon, tl Shuri-Cannon
3x Guardian Jetbikes (think I can get these built at least)

Elite -
5x Fire Dragons
WS - tl Shuri-Cat, tl Shuri-Cannon
5x Fire Dragons

Fast Attack -
5x Warp Spiders - Exarch w/Dual Death Spinners, Surprise Assault, Withdraw
5x Swooping Hawks - Exarch w/Skyleap

Heavy -
3x War Walker - 3x SL
2x War Walker - 2x SL

Should the Dire Avengers be on foot and both FD be mounted? Or is it better to have them in the WS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mission will be Big Guns Never Tire and Hammer & Anvil for deployment.

AT is now very important, I guess. I have a Falcon, should I try and work that into the list or something else?

So here's a quick run-down of how everyone did:

My opponent brought a predator, land raider, 10x devastators, Lysander and some marines, 2 5x assault marines, droppod, 5x termies, 3x scout bikes, and 5x scouts (if I remember right).

The Jetcouncil did well. They got tied up with Lysander and his crew but they prevailed (with a little help from the DAs). With the foot Seer, I took Prescience and Terrorize (next time I'll take the base Telekinesis power next time instead since it didn't work at all).

The Pathfinders were ok, but not great. They hunkered down in some ruins, but didn't have much to shoot at and then bad rolling made them pretty sad once they did. I'll take them again, but maybe only one squad.

The DAs did well also, they shot at one of the assault squads and dealt a few kills, but mostly they came in to help finish off Lysander.

I liked the jetGuardians - they came on out of reserves and just sat on an objective (they didn't hurt the termies they jetted past).

I ended up running both FDs in WSs and footing the DA. The FDs did well, but didn't get too far afield. They were needed to keep all of the SM assault troops (termies and 2 squads of assault marines) from decimating my troops holding objectives.
On Turn 4 I decided that since both WSs had 3 hull points between them that I'd try out ramming the Predator and LR. One WS for a weapon on the LR and the other WS for a stun on the Predator. Disappointed on the rolls, but I guess it's an ok option for wounded transports.

The Warp Spiders died turn 1 and never got a shot off, the Swooping Hawks died turn 3 and never really got a shot off either. Next time I'll use the Skyleap I paid for and DS even if it's a suicide mission.

The War Walkers did well as always, but my opponent really fears them and so they're always a priority. They were all destroyed, but took a rhino, some devastators, and the scouts with them (along with some Termies and Assault Marines).

I say Keep the 10 Fire Dragons cause you WILL need the extra bodies and go with 6 Banshees
Exach has Mirror swords for the extra attack and Keep the Swooping Hawks for the Anti armor

The problem I have with Banshees is that now they aren't much of a match for terminators or even assault squadies. I'm at a loss with how to deal with it if he should team up Lysander with the Termi squad: 6 2+ armor saves is a lot if I can't get the FDs on him.

mars2024 wrote:
The problem I have with Banshees is that now they aren't much of a match for terminators or even assault squadies. I'm at a loss with how to deal with it if he should team up Lysander with the Termi squad: 6 2+ armor saves is a lot if I can't get the FDs on him.

Yes but U dont use the Banshees for that type of assualt, U go after Lighter Targets like a Tac Squad From a Rhino. But The Swooping Hawk Ability Can Help with that

Ok this will sound really immature but I would just kill everything in sight as soon as it came into view and with your FD just o searching for tanks because thay have Tank Hunters

I would change the pathfinders to rangers and make them 1 group of 10. If you can doom their target they are great, if nott hen they are still decent. If they get shot by alot take them to ground. Their only shots that reallllly matter are the to-hits of 6 anyway. This saves 50 points.

I like the council set up, I run a similar one with 1 more destructor warlock. I would give the embolden and enhance warlocks singing spears for extra ooomph when hitting armour. If you wanted to try somehting different you could drop the second seer + the points from switching from pathfinders>rangers and add the autarch on jetbike with mandiblasters, laser lance, and laser lance. That will give major killing power against any enemy with 3+ saves and give you more wounds to your council.

Another Idea is to pack up a squad of 5 dire avengers in a falcon (with EML and pulse laser) and put the second farseer in it with guide. Sit in the back and blast away guided then late game drop the avengers off on an objective. Its not quite as good as DAVU used to be but it can still work.

As fun as swooping hawks may be, the inability to assault after tey deep strike means they can deliver their haywire grenades without getting shot first. So I wouldn't take them myself. So that could free up some other points.

The 3 jetbikes could be a nice 76 pt investment for a late game contesting if they dont get shot up first. Trick is to keep them in reserve as long as possible then once they are in play, completely out of sight.

Also dont listen to people saying to use banshees. They just aren't worth te points any way you slice it. Unless you could proxy them as harlequins. X-D

Definetly keep the spiders as they are very usefull and can cause a rucuss. I like to give my exarch powerblades and withdraw and 2 spinners.

Hope some of this helps and good luck!!

Dark Emperor wrote:

mars2024 wrote:
The problem I have with Banshees is that now they aren't much of a match for terminators or even assault squadies. I'm at a loss with how to deal with it if he should team up Lysander with the Termi squad: 6 2+ armor saves is a lot if I can't get the FDs on him.

Yes but U dont use the Banshees for that type of assualt, U go after Lighter Targets like a Tac Squad From a Rhino. But The Swooping Hawk Ability Can Help with that

I'd still need something to counter the Terminators. 2+ saves are hard for Eldar to overcome - especially now that Banshees don't have the ignore armor blades.

Eldar Man wrote:Ok this will sound really immature but I would just kill everything in sight as soon as it came into view and with your FD just o searching for tanks because thay have Tank Hunters

I guess that's the idea, but the "how" is the problem.

Razgriz22 wrote:I would change the pathfinders to rangers and make them 1 group of 10. If you can doom their target they are great, if nott hen they are still decent. If they get shot by alot take them to ground. Their only shots that reallllly matter are the to-hits of 6 anyway. This saves 50 points.

I like the council set up, I run a similar one with 1 more destructor warlock. I would give the embolden and enhance warlocks singing spears for extra ooomph when hitting armour. If you wanted to try somehting different you could drop the second seer + the points from switching from pathfinders>rangers and add the autarch on jetbike with mandiblasters, laser lance, and laser lance. That will give major killing power against any enemy with 3+ saves and give you more wounds to your council.

Another Idea is to pack up a squad of 5 dire avengers in a falcon (with EML and pulse laser) and put the second farseer in it with guide. Sit in the back and blast away guided then late game drop the avengers off on an objective. Its not quite as good as DAVU used to be but it can still work.

As fun as swooping hawks may be, the inability to assault after tey deep strike means they can deliver their haywire grenades without getting shot first. So I wouldn't take them myself. So that could free up some other points.

The 3 jetbikes could be a nice 76 pt investment for a late game contesting if they dont get shot up first. Trick is to keep them in reserve as long as possible then once they are in play, completely out of sight.

Also dont listen to people saying to use banshees. They just aren't worth te points any way you slice it. Unless you could proxy them as harlequins. X-D

Definetly keep the spiders as they are very usefull and can cause a rucuss. I like to give my exarch powerblades and withdraw and 2 spinners.

Hope some of this helps and good luck!!

Pathfinders: I guess I disagree. I think having a to-hit of 5 or 6 getting AP1 is pretty sweet - that's why I ran them as Pathfinders and not Rangers. They didn't really work out very well, but that's how it goes with the dice sometimes. That and my opponent kept much of his force outside of 36" and I didn't want to leave the ruins I had them in. If I ran a unit of 7 - that would give me the volume of shots, and save me around 75 points.

Council: Yeah, I think I'll add my Autarch back into my council somehow. I was really missing all those attacks. I'll have to think about how to kit him out though. The power sword isn't so great for CC, but maybe the best I can do. I haven't tried the lance (did you mean to type something else, since I don't think I can take it twice).

DAVU: I should definitely taken the smaller group and the Falcon last time. It wouldn't have helped me in the CC with Lysander, but it would have given me another long range AT scoring unit (Big Guns mission has Heavy units as additional scoring).

JetGuardians: I'll keep these guys for another game. They're good for grabbing/contesting at the end and they're not too hard to keep safe once they come in from reserves.

Swooping Hawks: I should have deep struck them last game instead of trying to walk them up the board. They could have at least dropped their pie plate attack and landed somewhere more advantageous than the back of my deployment. I'm not convinced that they're not worth keeping.

Spiders: They got killed off too fast last time. Gotta DS these guys too. I'm still not sure about them in CC though. They only have one attack and that's not much.

Banshees: What about Scorpions? They're slow, but if I can infiltrate or outflank with them, maybe they'd be ok. Not being able to assault after running is a problem, I guess. I like the idea of proxying them though. I might try that.

With the autarch I meant mandis, laser lance, and fusion gun. He adds a high bs melta shot and like 6 S6 ap3 hits on the charge.

We can agree to disagree on the rangers/ pathfinders :-). But for either group, doom their target. It makes a world of differences.

And yes DAVU still works if used correctly and with a little more care. And 1/6 of the time it works the same way :-).

Jetbike guardians are a solid crew. If your council dies off and you are left with your farseer, I've joined him with GJBs to make a hard to kill scoring unit.

Swooping hawks... Hmm they seem fun to use but not with it to me. But hey if you are making them work then go for it! I would say probably deep strike them somewhere out of sight. Or even deep strike them into your own backfield Whenyou expect vehicles to drive into it. Just play them safe I suppose. Possibly use them defensively.

Spiders should almost always deep strike in on the rear armour of a vehicle and blast away. I would only charge opportunitys of choice and only if you take power blades. Those are the key. The 4 ignoring armour attacks should give you a small edge. So dropping in and shooting up a tac squad then charging in to finish off works very well.

I would have to disagree with striking scorpions sadly. While they, along with the banshees, are sweet models they just don't cut it. They dont really make it to combat with great numbers and they also don't do alll that Well once they reach combat. If you want CC then look no further then harlequins. They are the best CC in the game IMO.

Good luck with everything!

Thanks for all the feedback. This is why I joined Dakka! I really appreciate it. It's great to be able to use other's experience to figure out more about my army.

I'll definitely look into harlies. They didn't really fit into my view of the fluff (for my army) but now that banshees and scorpions are so tough to work into an army, I think they deserve a place.

Razgriz, how many warlocks do you pack into your council? I'm a bit limited because I only have 10 bikes to use (for council as well as guardians), but I'm thinking of picking up more.

My council is considered "small" by some. If you really want to run a council list right you would run 2 councils in it lol. But we cant all do that. I run...

Farseer, warding whitessing, fortune, singing sear and sometimes doom and spiritstones
6 warlocks- 4 destructors, 1 enhance with spear, 1 emboldem with spear.

Sometimes an autarch with mandis, lance, and melta will join in too.

If one had the $$ and really watned to commit to the council, they could run 2 of what I just said in a 1500 pt list and have another ~540 pts left to fill out.

As you said, you should give a try to harlequins. Now that they are pretty much the only viable close combat unit for eldar.

They work well without a transport and are very resilient against shooting (veil of tears, shroud, stealth. The FAQ is a mess). If you run them with a fortune seer, it can be real nightmare to your opponent. No one likes a rerollable 2+ cover save.

In close combat they chop down standard marines and terminators alike with 4 rending attacks each. If you have the points, you can always add couple blast pistols for anti transport, but it's a bit expensive and risky.

They are also one of the coolest models around, send in the clowns!

"Send in the clowns"

I love it!

I was going to play again this weekend, but it looks like it won't be for a while now. That will give me time to put a list together with the Harlies, I guess.

Thanks again for the comments.

Can you guys recommend a list with Harlies in it? I'd probably proxy my Banshees for the Harlies for the timebeing, so I'd have 5 models to work with.