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Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Well people are bringing antihorde weapons. This list pretty much is all transports


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also almost no orks in adepticon for some reason

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/23 07:04:09


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in be
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Belgium

 Glitcha wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Well when you take so many garbage units and combinations - ofc you will lose.


I don't believe there is any unit in the index that is a garbage unit. Each serves it purpose in your list if you give them a purpose to have. Even if it nothing more than being a meat shield.


Garbage...no; but expensive as hell for what they do, off course
Deffkopta and bikers aren't worth the price
Also, trukks are easy to destroy (for the same amount off points you can take way many storm boyz... as fast and more flexible)
And it's sad to take units of 12 boyz

Trukks are kind of better to serve as weapon platform for tankbustas, lootas or shootas boyz

But i loved the theme of your army... it'should be a beautiffull band of speed freaks
But expensive spead freaks

To stay in the theme... more skortcha, some grot tanks, fill your trukks with tankbustan, take a battle wagon full off boyz maybe

And, a question for you guyz, the nobz on bike, are they good (IMO expensive but... il like big nobz so big nobz with big bikes.... )

Imperials fists 2060 Orks 1100
Firestorm and Star Wars Armada 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




So, I´ve got a match tomorrow against Blood Zucker Gitz...

I´ll probably run this list (1200 Points):

HQ
Big Mek with KFF
Warboss (Warlord with Eadwoopa)
Weridboy with Warpath
Weirdboy witch Da Jump

Troops
30x Boyz
30x Boyz
23x Gretchin --> I intend to use them for Screen purposes if I don´t get turn 1

Elites
5x Kommandos --> Camping on objectives
5x Kommandos --> Camping on objectives
Nob with Waaagh! banner

2x Heavy Support
1xBig Trakk with supa-skorcha
1xMek Gunz KMK

Flyer
Burna-bommer

What do you guys think?
   
Made in be
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Belgium

I like it
Grot are useless (really)

Imperials fists 2060 Orks 1100
Firestorm and Star Wars Armada 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Oh stop, grots aren't useless. If the best lists in LVO had 90 grots, you can't call them useless....

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






tag8833 wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Here's an even newer one. Took 3rd place in March Madness(62 people)
4 weirdboyz
painboy
weirdboy
30 choppa boyz (big choppa nob)
12 choppa boyz (big choppa nob)
3x5 tankbustas
4 KMKs

Big Mek (Might is right, killchoppa, KFF)
3x5 tankbustas
grot tanks (4x kmb and shoota, 1x 2 kmb and shoota)
battlewagon (ard case)
3x trukk

Now this one is really strange

That is really strange. It doesn't look like that list makes any sense at all in the modern meta. I mean, smite is good against elite armies, but it seems like most armies wouldn't have that much trouble beatting it. Tankbustas go in the trukks. What goes in the battlewagon? Characters and 12 boyz to try and get 1st turn, and gain 3" extra movement? It just doesn't seem worth it. That battlewagon could be turned into a bunch more mek gunz and boyz. Also he couldn't spare 30 points for a unit of gretchin to run a batallion? Weird.

I think the tankbustas go in the battle wagon.
The Weirdboyz go in one trukk.
The 12 Boyz I assume go in another trukk.
I have no idea what goes in the last trukk unless the tankbustas are taking bomb Squigs and are spread between battle wagon and a trukk?

Certainly an odd list.

Ming wrote:
So, I´ve got a match tomorrow against Blood Zucker Gitz...

I´ll probably run this list (1200 Points):
Spoiler:

HQ
Big Mek with KFF
Warboss (Warlord with Eadwoopa)
Weridboy with Warpath
Weirdboy witch Da Jump

Troops
30x Boyz
30x Boyz
23x Gretchin --> I intend to use them for Screen purposes if I don´t get turn 1

Elites
5x Kommandos --> Camping on objectives
5x Kommandos --> Camping on objectives
Nob with Waaagh! banner

2x Heavy Support
1xBig Trakk with supa-skorcha
1xMek Gunz KMK

Flyer
Burna-bommer


What do you guys think?

For so few Boyz I'm not convinced the KFF mek is worth it. I don't think the banner Nob is either.

Might be worth dropping both and throwing more Boyz in there? Can you take Dakka jet instead of Burna Bomma? That might be worth doing too.

E -
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Oh stop, grots aren't useless. If the best lists in LVO had 90 grots, you can't call them useless....

He finished 55th rvd....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/23 08:41:35


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Yes. Which is ONE loss in 6 games? 500+ people tournament...
If grots were useless, then making a list with 90 of them should be terrible... There are quite a few big names bellow him with 2 losses or more

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/23 08:59:42


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Yes. Which is ONE loss in 6 games? 500+ people tournament...
If grots were useless, then making a list with 90 of them should be terrible... There are quite a few big names bellow him with 2 losses or more

Depends on your definition of useless I suppose. They are the cheapest wounds and troops in the game. They can sit on objectives. They can screen. If you have other things that can do this better then they're useless as far as your army is concerned. They're pretty useless when it comes to killing things.

Lets not put grots on a "best unit in the ork dex" pedestal just yet. Reece was a bit premature with that I think. If we had a klan rule for +1 to wound in fight phase though I could dig it.
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Not sure what's so confusing about the 3rd place list: it's 3 trukkbustas and shove 12 boyz+hqs in the battlewagon

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






It's still weird. I played a very similar list against an eldar player a few weeks ago, and simply got tabled by turn 2.

We've probably come the full circle now, the meta is so focused on hordes that trukks are useful again.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in be
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Belgium

23 grots... alone, with no runthred will disapear after a single lasgun shoot on them
Am i wrong?
(i wasn't talking about grots in general but grots on that list... if it's for objective holding take 2 units of ten and hide them well)

Imperials fists 2060 Orks 1100
Firestorm and Star Wars Armada 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Yeah, there's nothing to shoot in that list except trukks and battlewagons. (The targetable boyz sit in the back since they get jumped anyway?) So all the anti-horde weapons have jack to shoot

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Jidmah wrote:
It's still weird. I played a very similar list against an eldar player a few weeks ago, and simply got tabled by turn 2.

We've probably come the full circle now, the meta is so focused on hordes that trukks are useful again.


Yeah, my meta is exactly like that, everyone is scared to death by hordes. The idea of wasting hundreds of points of anti tank terrorizes people

In my area greentides are still more effective than lists with transports, but there's not that huge gap. Of course if we consider pure TAC lists, if I face a list with tons of anti tank my BWs and trukks are screwed.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Allright then, after your Feedback the list would be something like that:

HQ
Warboss (Warlord with Eadwoopa)
Weridboy with Warpath
Weirdboy witch Da Jump

Troops
30x Boyz
30x Boyz
30x Shootaboyz --> Screen and overwatch for turn 1 and if I get turn 1 I Jump them in front of the enemy lines.

Elites
5x Kommandos --> Camping on objectives
5x Kommandos --> Camping on objectives

Heavy Support
1xBig Trakk with supa-skorcha
1xMek Gunz KMK
1xBig gun (because Points)

Flyer
Dakka-Jet with 6xSupashoota

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/23 12:30:00


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

 petitflacheur wrote:
I like it
Grot are useless (really)

Then your doing it wrong.

Grots are a good unit. And there are lots of ways to keep them from running off and keeping them useful.
Are they vulnerable to most everything now days and LD deaths, yet. does anyone really want to kill a unit of grots as priority number one? Doubt it.
They are better now than they have been in years. And they have a save again!

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 warhead01 wrote:
 petitflacheur wrote:
I like it
Grot are useless (really)

Then your doing it wrong.

Grots are a good unit. And there are lots of ways to keep them from running off and keeping them useful.
Are they vulnerable to most everything now days and LD deaths, yet. does anyone really want to kill a unit of grots as priority number one? Doubt it.
They are better now than they have been in years. And they have a save again!


If that unit of grots is being used to sit on an objective I'd target it with high priority. Getting rid of it means that you either have to give up on that objective, or move one of your other units onto it, which could be a waste of that unit.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 warhead01 wrote:
 petitflacheur wrote:
I like it
Grot are useless (really)

Then your doing it wrong.

Grots are a good unit. And there are lots of ways to keep them from running off and keeping them useful.
Are they vulnerable to most everything now days and LD deaths, yet. does anyone really want to kill a unit of grots as priority number one? Doubt it.
They are better now than they have been in years. And they have a save again!


If that unit of grots is being used to sit on an objective I'd target it with high priority. Getting rid of it means that you either have to give up on that objective, or move one of your other units onto it, which could be a waste of that unit.

Yes, that could happen your right. I don't know how you use your Grots. For me they do very well and are largely left alone. Ork Mob rule being as good as it is I hardly spend command points to keep a unit fearless unless I have to and in most cases it's on Grots, with the occasional lone surviving nob who can score me an objective that turn. Got to be a bit crafty. I set my Grots up usually to first turn screen and under some form of buff, KFF and Pain boy, but they are not the only unit benefiting from those two characters.
If some one wants them gone, they will be gone. I have very little control over that but we all know it's a waste of their efforts on the first turn. I wont argue that they are a competitive unit but they aren't the worst thing ever either. Hell, until fixed WS stats I had used them to kill all kinds of enemy HQ's who, over the years underestimated just how dangerously motivated a Grots mob could be. Honestly the most trouble my Grots have is when the other army has indirect fire weapons. But I think it's the same across my whole army if the other player brings that kind of thing I'm in some trouble.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Lol, if the enemy is shooting the grots and not the ork boyz that will charge them next turn, I'll take grots all day every day

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Just use the grot gunners instead of gretchins. They're only 2ppm, can't be targeted by the enemy firepower until the gun is alive and the mek gun can actually do something. The single kannon is even cheaper than the min squad of gretchin. Litterally no one is going to shoot the grot gunners after killing the gun

 
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver






MT

 Blackie wrote:
Just use the grot gunners instead of gretchins. They're only 2ppm, can't be targeted by the enemy firepower until the gun is alive and the mek gun can actually do something. The single kannon is even cheaper than the min squad of gretchin. Litterally no one is going to shoot the grot gunners after killing the gun


Blackie is correct.

Grots are not literally useless, but Grot Gunners can accomplish allot of the same things, and have a gun, and are basically "characters"

I am not impressed with Frontline's ork "advice" in general.

orks 10000+ points
"SHHH. My common sense is tingling."--Deadpoool
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote: ...it doesn't matter how many times I make a false statement, it will still be false.

 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Gretchin are cheap potentially morale immune troop slots. That's what they bring.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/23 19:35:25


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Gretchin are cheap potentially morale immune troop slots. That's what they bring.

You know as well as anyone that Boyz aren't expensive. Difference is they can get gak done.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Gretchin are cheap potentially morale immune troop slots. That's what they bring.

You know as well as anyone that Boyz aren't expensive. Difference is they can get gak done.

Ha. 60% of the time it works every time. lol.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in au
Flashy Flashgitz






Theres a big difference between 3ppm and 6ppm. I gotta side with rvd on this one.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






They are not 3 ppm if you are making them "moral imune".

The only reason to field them is to take the charge from alpha legion zerkers, blood letter bomb, warp-timed assault units/primarchs and similar units - whatever is doing the screening is going to die, so you might as well take the cheapest option and save yourself half the points.
This has absolutely nothing to do with gretchin being better than boyz though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/23 23:35:03


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in au
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





I've been taking gretchin for screening, I conga line them towards a warboss so that they have some sense of morale immunity. I'm already taking a warboss for other infantry so I'm not paying more than 3ppm. I also often take a painboy for my boyz, so if its possible I'll have him within range of a grot too. I don't bother putting them under a KFF as I spread the gretchin out further than the range of of it.

There's a lot of psyker action in my meta and having my opponent ONLY be able to target gretchin with smites has been really useful and I've managed to shield units I actually care about in the first turn.

I haven't actually tried using boyz for screening but might give it a try in my next game.

Lots of pts of Orks
3000 pts of AdMech and punchy-choppy Knights
Ork Shooting Probability feat. Dakka Dakka Dakka, re-rolls, and More Dakka 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






I'm not saying gretchin are the best unit in the game. I"m saying that they're not useless and that has been proven with the LVO results

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






You know, it would help your arguments a lot if you would stop pointing to tournament results and spread sheets and instead argue based on what's actually happening in the game.

Even if Reece had won LVO with a list made up of nothing but gretchin, the information would be useless to everyone here if you don't know what to do with them on the table top.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/24 06:43:00


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

If the purpose of bringing gretchins is to make a gonga line why don't just use min squads of boyz instead?

For +30 points they are way more durable as screeners, they're immune to morale thanks to LD30 and, if the ork player go first or the opponent has no deep striking assault units, they can eventually merge to a 30 man mob.

 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






I am of the opinion that anything that's not:
spreadsheet data
tournament results data
top placing player (majors/gts only matter here) input
Is next to meaningless unless it is based on the previous 3 things.

Input from FLGS games is meaningless. Input from RTT results where you won with a stompa is meaningless
If a unit you think is useless makes up a big part of a list that does well in such a major tournament as the LVO, then you're wrong. Why you're wrong is another question entirelly. Google it, try to find the player who played them and ask him. Try asking other top players because they probably have a much better idea than you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:

For +30 points they are way more durable as screeners,


Uh... no? Against lasguns they are the exact same. Remember, we're comparing 2 grot to 1 boy.
Against almost anything else, grots are superior. Yes, they're T2. But everything else is the same. Same save, same wounds. Morale can be solved plenty of different ways.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/24 08:19:53


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
 
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