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 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
“Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.

Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?

Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.

Flipping that argument on its head for a second, if you accept that the legion-specific units do not (currently) have rules for 40k, why is it so hard to accept that the Sabre or new Deredeo weapons do not (currently) have rules for 40k?

Well I’d say it should all have 40k rules even if it is siloed into a specific “way to play”... GW has created several different ways to play, with narrative play notionally lower stakes than competitive play... In the lore a preheresy Ultramarines force was present at the fall of Cadia, that cool, how do you play that? -The point is if narrative play truly is a way to play in this crazy setting means the purpose of rules should facilitate people playing with any models... so if GW wants to limit us to only using their products they then need to facilitate that.

 Dysartes wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
“Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.

Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?

Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.

Flipping that argument on its head for a second, if you accept that the legion-specific units do not (currently) have rules for 40k, why is it so hard to accept that the Sabre or new Deredeo weapons do not (currently) have rules for 40k?

I think most people actually want those Legion specific units, so I don't think you proved a point.

Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?


Can I have Tau in 30k please thanks.

 Dysartes wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
“Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.

Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?

Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.

Flipping that argument on its head for a second, if you accept that the legion-specific units do not (currently) have rules for 40k, why is it so hard to accept that the Sabre or new Deredeo weapons do not (currently) have rules for 40k?

I would 100% be fine with those units having 40k rules. Anything to get those cool models on the table without going back to 7thed

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?


Can I have Tau in 30k please thanks.

Only the people that didn't bother to read the rules and math everything out. We shouldn't pay attention to their thoughts though and make sure we tell them they're wrong. Also you could easily use Tau rules in 30k. I mean I've seen Orks being used with essentially no issues.

Ultimately there should be just one ruleset and people could themselves use it in whatever era they want to play. There could be some suggestions on what units are most appropriate for which era, but not hard and fast rules.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?


Can I have Tau in 30k please thanks.

You don't even have to go that far. We're still patiently waiting for Skitarii units that we canonically know to exist during the Heresy...

There's no point in exploring a historical setting distinct to modern 40k if you're going to mash it all into modern 40k anyway. It just detracts character from both eras.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?

Only the people that didn't bother to read the rules and math everything out. We shouldn't pay attention to their thoughts though and make sure we tell them they're wrong.

Nice straw stompa you're building here. Actual, competent people capable of spotting balance issues have no problems with admitting half of the FW units are broken in the other direction (aka terribad), it's the jokers who wouldn't spot balance if it was actual, real stompa standing above them, who hide behind bad units pretending it applies to all of them and the broken pay to win FW garbage that outright replaces whole armies it is attached to on tournaments is in any way OK. Because spamming six resin units worth 3000$ easily when you could have plastic army for 1/10 of that totally makes sense when said unit is totes balanced and totally not broken crap vastly better than any potential replacement, eh?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
“Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.

Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?

Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.

Which is one of the most annoying things about FW - why some stuff (mostly Marines) gets 40k rules but so little else does.... Looking at Ad Mech and Sisters of Silence in particular

There is only the FW Custodes Codex when a SOS and AD Mech one would be glorious.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
“Weak” would be more accurate considering most Underworlds war bands have rules to include them in AoS.

Which is neither Warcry nor Necromunda, so... ?

Again you are missing the clear fact that nearly all non-legion specific SM units are available for use in 40k.
Hell all the FW knights made for 30k are usable in 40k.

Which is one of the most annoying things about FW - why some stuff (mostly Marines) gets 40k rules but so little else does.... Looking at Ad Mech and Sisters of Silence in particular

There is only the FW Custodes Codex when a SOS and AD Mech one would be glorious.

They should get rules too!!!!! they where promised then things happened for weird reasons

I daresay the reason a lot doesn't get 40K rules is because studio time is a finite resource and, despite squeaky wheels online, providing them doesn't actually generate sufficient extra sales to warrant it.

 Irbis wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Isn't the usual chain of events following a HH model getting 40K rules people losing their minds over how broken it is and not wanting to play against it? Is there a point?

Only the people that didn't bother to read the rules and math everything out. We shouldn't pay attention to their thoughts though and make sure we tell them they're wrong.

Nice straw stompa you're building here. Actual, competent people capable of spotting balance issues have no problems with admitting half of the FW units are broken in the other direction (aka terribad), it's the jokers who wouldn't spot balance if it was actual, real stompa standing above them, who hide behind bad units pretending it applies to all of them and the broken pay to win FW garbage that outright replaces whole armies it is attached to on tournaments is in any way OK. Because spamming six resin units worth 3000$ easily when you could have plastic army for 1/10 of that totally makes sense when said unit is totes balanced and totally not broken crap vastly better than any potential replacement, eh?

Well tell you what, you tell me what's actually that terribly broken on either side of the spectrum and I might humor you.

You might find it's a terribly short list.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I daresay the reason a lot doesn't get 40K rules is because studio time is a finite resource and, despite squeaky wheels online, providing them doesn't actually generate sufficient extra sales to warrant it.

They used to say that about Sisters of Battle as well.....

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I daresay the reason a lot doesn't get 40K rules is because studio time is a finite resource and, despite squeaky wheels online, providing them doesn't actually generate sufficient extra sales to warrant it.

They used to say that about Sisters of Battle as well.....

Except they've got actual data of FW Heresy units that have and don't have 40K rules, and can see a typical comparison in sales, Sisters don't resemble that situation at all.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I daresay the reason a lot doesn't get 40K rules is because studio time is a finite resource and, despite squeaky wheels online, providing them doesn't actually generate sufficient extra sales to warrant it.

They used to say that about Sisters of Battle as well.....

Except they've got actual data of FW Heresy units that have and don't have 40K rules, and can see a typical comparison in sales, Sisters don't resemble that situation at all.

No, no, that can't be it. If that were the case, then there would have to be enough people buying these Heresy-only models explicitly for playing with the Heresy rules to justify FW making them, and Very Clever People have informed us right here in this very thread that that's impossible, that Heresy is a ded gaem, and only the graciously allocated money of our generous 40K overlords can save the 30K line...

I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?

I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?

It is logically no different since the systems diverged than clamouring for 40K rules for Clanrats.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?

It is logically no different since the systems diverged than clamouring for 40K rules for Clanrats.

Those comparisons are disingenuous and you know it.

Nope. I'll concede something like Orcs or Humans would probably be a better example than Skaven, given the analogous nature of the factions, but I stand by the point.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?

It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.

Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.

Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.

Cyrixiinus wrote:
It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.

Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.

Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.

Well, here's the difference: I absolutely think that those things should have 30K rules and I wish you get them as soon as possible.

Cyrixiinus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?

It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.

Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.

Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.

Well actually, we 40k players have not gotten support from FW lately actually.
The last model I can think of made purely for 40k was the necrons robot.
Yes we can use all the stuff 30k gets like the special Dreads or the preators, none of it is made for purely 40k

Wow, I'm going to need my giant face and my giant palm for that one...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Cyrixiinus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?

It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.

Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.

Meanwhile, we waited for the rules for Heresy versions of the Knights Dominus and Armigers, and are still waiting for Skitarii.

Well actually, we 40k players have not gotten support from FW lately actually.
The last model I can think of made purely for 40k was the necrons robot.
Yes we can use all the stuff 30k gets like the special Dreads or the preators, none of it is made for purely 40k

So GW main 40K studio is what exactly? Forge World is not a studio set up to pander to 40K players. It is set up to look at other aspects of the universe which is why Specialist Studios, Middle Earth, 30K sits in it. Woe is you that FW doesnt devote any of its expressly limited resources to delivering more 40K units when the main studio is churning out releases weekly for the setting. Get back in your box mate.

Forge World have more or less being 'banned' from writing 40k rules, right? As in, it was said only GW's main studio will handle rules for any model FW puts out that may have rules in 40k.

So the way I see it, the model was ready to ship out, FW wrote the 30k rules and off it went. That's their part done. The onus is now on the GW studio to write the 40k rules, whether they come out the same time as this releases or a year in the future.

No different to Armiger rules coming for 30k later down the line really.

Cyrixiinus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Spoiler:

I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?

It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.

Take the Ruinstorm daemon brutes for example. A model for a list designed explicitly and entirely for 30k, a list that designed to explore how daemons were percieved and represented during the Horus Heresy in a unique way that widened the setting. Yet there are a number of 40k players immediately demanded they have rules for it even when commentary from the designers about the list stated that they wanted to explore and differentiate the daemons of the Heresy from their 40k counterparts.

Yeah there is literally no reason to do this other than pettiness.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?

So they can sell more than 20 of them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess I don't get why 30k players are opposed to it getting 40k rules.
Why does it affect you?

It doesn't. But there's a good chunk of 30k players out there (not saying him) that seem to think that their toys should be exclusive to their game, and we should keep our dirty scrubby 8th edition peasant hands off of it, unless we're going to play Horus Heresy. And when we play Horus Heresy, we better ensure all of our models are exact Horus Heresy standards, with 100 percent correct legion heraldry and armor marks. If not, you can't play Horus Heresy.

Spending thousands of dollars to play 7th Edition does something to some people. Fortunately, there's only about 6 people that still play it.

I'm exagerrating, of course.

I sold everything off and quit playing because I saw no point in spending that much money on a game that so few people play. I can help someone get into 40k, and work with them. Getting someone into 30k usually involves planning a Casino robbery.

Cyrixiinus wrote:

It's half as much about the attitude some 40k players display every time we get a new model. They can't be patient no, of course being patient is entirely unreasonable. When we're trying to enjoy the fact the Heresy line has gotten some support (compared to the masses of stuff the main 40k line gets) we end up with certain 40k players immediately demanding that they have the model now, and calling FW idiots for not giving them exactly what they want immediately, even when it contradicts the lore.

I hate to break it to you, but I'm fairly certain that Forge World would be nonexistent if they weren't making those models available to the game that actually has exponentially more people playing.

Again, I'm not sure how it's going to hurt you if they throw the rules for a damned tank out for a completely separate game. It's not preventing you from using it in the game you're playing, it's not impacting your gameplay at all. Worrying this much about people who aren't effecting you at all is unhealthy.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I don't get why that a model for what is now fundamentally a different game that uses a different ruleset should be expected to have rules by 40K players?

So they can sell more than 20 of them.

That's the point, they almost certainly don't, otherwise they'd be all over it. It's just a bunch of squeaky wheels complaining that they can't have the thing they'd have never bought anyway.