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Over the next month or so, you will hopefully be hearing a lot of updates form us on the Judge Dredd: Block War Kickstarter (starting on the morning of Thursday 13th!). However, we have some other bits and pieces going on at Mongoose that will be bearing fruit soon.

Victory at Sea is our World War II naval game (Age of Dreadnougghts covers World War I) that has been going for some years now. Finally, we are ready to bring a new range of miniatures to the game, and this is possibly our most ambitious project yet...

Our lead 3D Designer, Sandrine Thirache, has been toiling away for more than a year now on this line, in conjunction with our assembled collection of Official Naval Boffins (the ONB) who are providing plans and constantly checking and re-checking her work to make these models as accurate as possible.

Interesting Factoid: If you show Sandrine a photo of, say, the Richelieu, she can now tell you in what year that photo was taken. Much to her chagrin.



Each model is produced in 1/1800 scale, and is packed full of detail. Most ships have a resin hull and base (with sculpted wakes), with turrets and other parts provided on a metal sprue. Having been done in 3D, we have gone a step further and are producing a different model for each ship in a class, down to cruiser level. So, for example, there will not just be one model of, say, the Leander-class. You will be able to pick up different models for the Orion, Ajax, Achilles and Neptune. If that were not enough, for the true purist, we can also reflect changes to ships made during refits. So, our model of the French battleship Richelieu appears as it was in 1939. However, there are also models of the ship as it appeared in 1943 (a lot more AAA), and of its sister ship, the Jean Bart.



If that were not enough, we are also doing in-scale models of aircraft and Motor Torpedo Boats (one of our Official Naval Boffins, David Manley, has suggested we do a seperate range of the MTBs in 1/300 scale - he is quite mad, you know).



The first ships to appear will be those in the Battle of the River Plate box set, available at the end of October - Ajax, Achilles, Exeter and the Admiral Graf Spee.

Now, as I said before, this is an ambitious project, and there is no release schedule for this line - Sandrine has over 60 ships done in 3D, but that still leaves many, many more to go and while the final goal is to do pretty much everything that ever floated in World War II (!), we are not rushing to get everything out at once. They will be done when they are ready, though you should see a steady flow of ships coming out every month in 2013, covering the Royal Navy, Kreigsmarine, US Navy, Imperial Japanese Navy, Regia Marina, and Marine Nationale. Other navies, such as the Soviets, will not likely start appearing until the bottom end of 2013 at best.

You can see more examples of Sandrine's work on Planet Mongoose at http://blog.mongoosepublishing.co.uk/?p=373 and we will have pictures of painted models up on our site later this month.

That does sound rather intriguing !

I take it the rules will be included with the box set ?

 HudsonD wrote:
That does sound rather intriguing !

I take it the rules will be included with the box set ?

Rules already available!

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniatures/victory-at-sea.html

Those I already have
My question was aimed at the 2.0 version described on the mongoose blog, is there any estimation for those ?

I've also noticed the blog mentions 1/2400th scale, while your post specifies 1/1800 for the mini line. Any reason for the largr scale ? (I'm assuming more detailed minis)

We do have a second edition of VaS in the works, but don't hold your breath as it keeps growing. We are currently looking at a big, full colour hardback, lots of prettily painted minis inside, loads of history and analysis, stats for everything... and a release date in second half of 2013 at best. Like the rest of the line, it will be ready when it is done

We were originally going to do 1/2400, but that scale already has decent support and 1/1800 allowed us to take advantage of the digital modelling to cram ever more detail onto each ship.

This game is a variation on the B5:ACTA ruleset and I played it a bit when it first hit a few years ago. B5:ACTA remains my favorite space combat game of all time, the perfect balance of naval tactics, complexity and abstraction for me. Since ACTA is really just a naval simulator at it's core it translated over to WW2 extremely well. That said, while I never felt particularly burned by Mongoose I did experience their shoddy handling of B5, Mighty Armies and SST firsthand, which puts me in more of the indiferant/wait ad see camp. Unfortunately. many of my friends are more upset and will never play anything they do ever again which greatly limits my options, even if I decide to get back in.

this is possibly our most ambitious project yet...

This does not excite me. In fact, this has me the exact OPPOSITE of excited. I've seen how Mongoose's ambitious projects pan out (ie: not well). I want Mongoose to do a small project, a realistic project that they do right and finish and then branch out from. A small project that they do well and turn into a grand project eventually. "most ambitious yet" sets off every warning signal my brain can muster. I know the game itself has been around for a while, but the official miniatures line is new, especially since there ARE so many great WW2 minis already out there.

We were originally going to do 1/2400, but that scale already has decent support and 1/1800 allowed us to take advantage of the digital modelling to cram ever more detail onto each ship.

This seals it for me. Typical mongoose. "Well, this scale is already super popular, so lets make our stuff in a NEW scale that doesn't match what everyone wants to play with. Plus, it has the added benefit of being MORE unwieldy to play with! There is simply no way this can POSSIBLY go south on us!"

This was the biggest problem with B5:ACTA, they went with bigger, more expensive ships that nobody bought because everyone used the much cheaper, readily available Fleet Action scale that actually played much better on the table than the big, unwieldy ships that bumped into each other too much. And Mongoose didn't see a dime of all those sales beyond the box set sales for any of the dozen+ players at my shop, nor any of the players I saw posting on the MGP forums using the FA scale. Star Trek resin minis? same problem, they went bigger when everyone wanted smaller. The Starline 5000 figs are really too big to play well on a hex map, they would have sold models to all the Federation Commander players in addition to their own Star Trek ACTA game.

I know that there are indeed people that like the bigger scale, but I don't know a single person locally that does, and most of the people I've encountered online prefer the smaller scales. Maybe that's completely off base and localized, but I somehow doubt it. I'm sure there's a market for it, but it just seems like you're picking an uphill fight before you even start.

The game itself is good, and is something mongoose doesn't have to pay a license for (or ever have to worry about losing), but a huge new minis line when there's so many other options out there already? Just not sure this has any legs.

 Kalamadea wrote:
I want Mongoose to do a small project, a realistic project that they do right and finish and then branch out from.

Like... The Battle of the River Plate, before expanding onwards? Already ahead of you, mate

 Kalamadea wrote:

This seals it for me. Typical mongoose. "Well, this scale is already super popular, so lets make our stuff in a NEW scale that doesn't match what everyone wants to play with. P

It is the same scale as the War at Sea range. And 1/2400 is already pretty well covered.

 Kalamadea wrote:
This was the biggest problem with B5:ACTA, they went with bigger, more expensive ships that nobody bought because everyone used the much cheaper, readily available Fleet Action scale

I am afraid that is incorrect. People used hundreds of thousands of those larger models, and they were absolutely the right decision.

 Kalamadea wrote:

I know that there are indeed people that like the bigger scale, but I don't know a single person locally that does,

Well, this is our problem; we cannot sell just to your local area, we have to look at a much wider picture. Now, because we are digitally modelling these ships we could, potentially, in the future, release them in a different scale - you never know!

Well, GHQ models pretty much rules 1/2400th with an extensive line, so I can understand why Mongoose would rather avoid competition there.
Having an interest in WW2 naval warfare, I'm going to be following this closely !

We have just started the Judge Dredd: Block War Kickstarter, and we have lots of exciting projects on display for Dredd fans and gamers alike.

The Judge Dredd miniatures game features a completely free to download rulebook and has been running with the support of its fans for two years now. It is a 28mm skirmish-level science fiction miniatures game based on the iconic 2000AD comic strip where players take a force or faction from Mega-City One and prepare to do battle on the streets! Full campaign rules are integrated into the game, and feature a system whereby weaker forces are never at a disadvantage – even a lowly gang of street punks can take on Judge Dredd and his cohorts if you have enough reinforcements!

You can find the fully details at;

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1990654819/judge-dredd-miniatures-game-block-war

Alright. In for $300. If I want to get the RPG stuff, I can just add extra to my existing pledge, I assume?

While some people were harshing on the models for being dated, the paint jobs on the ones in the kickstarter look top notch!

The Law Abiding Citizen: Dredd image is beautiful, the shoulder pad is beautiful.


Edit: Also good work Scipio, you have got us 10% of way to Walter all by yourself!

So..for $30 I can get a force box from the Dredd range, or I can go to the Mongoose site and spend $30 on a force box from the Dredd range?

So at that level the Kickstarter is basically free worldwide postage if you wait a month

Hm. Does Council of Judges also include the figures from the lower level figures pledges inside the boxed sets? (Law Abiding, Cadet, Street, Brit-Cit).

Obviously the Manta is completely separate.


Actually, we need a link to some hi-res pics of exactly what's in those boxes. The ones on the website need people to chase them down scattered across several categories, and are also small and horrid.

Charax wrote:
So..for $30 I can get a force box from the Dredd range, or I can go to the Mongoose site and spend $30 on a force box from the Dredd range?

So at that level the Kickstarter is basically free worldwide postage if you wait a month

That and it is a way to generate some hype and get a big pile of capital to make more molds and thus have a larger range. Plus there might be stretch goals down the track as well to sweeten the pot.

...Or you can wait for a longer period of time and wait for Mongoose to raise the capital through occasional box sales which they may have over committed on and thus take even longer to raise the money for new molds.

Kickstarter is not always about getting a billion minis for a couple of bucks. I am growing to the opinion that a lot of people have been spoiled between Reaper, Sedition Wars etc and now anything that doesn't bombard them with free stuff is no good.

Or I could be being overly sensitive, that is also a possibility.

 scipio.au wrote:
Actually, we need a link to some hi-res pics of exactly what's in those boxes. The ones on the website need people to chase them down scattered across several categories, and are also small and horrid.

Agreed, I wanna have some speccy pics of the loots.

Charax wrote:
So..for $30 I can get a force box from the Dredd range, or I can go to the Mongoose site and spend $30 on a force box from the Dredd range?

So at that level the Kickstarter is basically free worldwide postage if you wait a month

It also gives access to new forces we hope will be appearing on Stretch Goals very soon - and they won't be appearing on our site until the Kickstarter chaps all have theirs.

.

 scipio.au wrote:
Hm. Does Council of Judges also include the figures from the lower level figures pledges inside the boxed sets? (Law Abiding, Cadet, Street, Brit-Cit).

Good suggestion - we will make that clear on the update.

 scipio.au wrote:

Actually, we need a link to some hi-res pics of exactly what's in those boxes. The ones on the website need people to chase them down scattered across several categories, and are also small and horrid.

Click on them, and they get larger. But yes, I will look into that as well.

 Vain wrote:

...Or you can wait for a longer period of time and wait for Mongoose to raise the capital through occasional box sales which they may have over committed on and thus take even longer to raise the money for new molds.

Kickstarter is not always about getting a billion minis for a couple of bucks. I am growing to the opinion that a lot of people have been spoiled between Reaper, Sedition Wars etc and now anything that doesn't bombard them with free stuff is no good.

You are not wrong but we are also not beyond this - we will hopefully be adding bits and pieces (you can see we left room to do this on the graphics of the pledge levels) depending on how the stretch goals go.

I still think there should be some miniature middle ground in the pledge levels. $120 for 4 boxes, that kinda thing. The RPG stuff is lovely but it leaves quite a big hole that you can fill easily and get more pledges. I would up my $60 to $120 for 4 boxes.
Also printing the rule book as a stretch goal addition? I know you can get it free but I do love paper copies.

Otherwise it's great. Good luck Matt.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:

Actually, we need a link to some hi-res pics of exactly what's in those boxes. The ones on the website need people to chase them down scattered across several categories, and are also small and horrid.

Click on them, and they get larger. But yes, I will look into that as well.

Not to harp on about this, but your "big" pics of the boxed sets are still appallingly small. Check out GW or Reaper's sites to see a good size for the figure pictures, especially boxed sets on GW's. You're far from the only minis company to do this badly (sorry, but it's true). Mantic for one is also quite bad.

For the KS, I'd suggest turning all of the pledge level images into individual images (cut them up) that are clickable links that take you to another site whee you have a large, hi-res picture of exactly what the pledge level entails. In detail.

 JazzGB wrote:
I still think there should be some miniature middle ground in the pledge levels. $120 for 4 boxes, that kinda thing. The RPG stuff is lovely but it leaves quite a big hole that you can fill easily and get more pledges. I would up my $60 to $120 for 4 boxes.
Also printing the rule book as a stretch goal addition? I know you can get it free but I do love paper copies.

We have had a few requests for a 'midway' pledge - looking into it!

As for the book, we are talking to the chaps at Wargame Vault about exactly that!

 scipio.au wrote:

Not to harp on about this, but your "big" pics of the boxed sets are still appallingly small.

Fair point - I'll have a twiddle and see what we can do!

 JazzGB wrote:
I still think there should be some miniature middle ground in the pledge levels. $120 for 4 boxes, that kinda thing. The RPG stuff is lovely but it leaves quite a big hole that you can fill easily and get more pledges. I would up my $60 to $120 for 4 boxes.
Also printing the rule book as a stretch goal addition? I know you can get it free but I do love paper copies.

Otherwise it's great. Good luck Matt.

Agreed on both counts. Many previous Kickstarters have shown that the Sweet Spot is between $100-150. Or both of them.

Awesome, been looking for another use for a city-board I have made and this looks like it.

And the models just look like so much fun, it will be interesting using a lot of bright and pastel shades (a bit different I think to what most people are probably used to).

With this KS is it likely to generate any more miniatures to be sculpted?
The 2000AD list is so rich in famous characters, I could make a list as long as my arm of stuff I would love to see!

Sorry, but I am already 'all in' on the DFG kickstarter.

Other than that, I'm sorry to say, but the 'judges' look more like Jimps* to me, and rather than the Manta Prowl tank, I'd have preferred the more common Pat-Wagon. Even so, and taking into account that I was a follower of Dredd from the early days (I started reading 2000AD from Prog 1) and this may explain my dislike for the models on offer, I hope this goes on to do well. I would love the model of Walter, and the Lawmaster looks a great model too.

So again, IF I had more time, or more available money, I'd certainly take a punt to get those, and the others I will gladly wait for retail. either way, I'll be keeping my eye on this one. (Especially if you keep Walter in that frosted/clear he is in the picture. Mask the screen, paint the rest, remove masking.)




*Jimp. Judge IMPersonator. (Those are not the Lawgivers I grew up with!).

 Pacific wrote:

With this KS is it likely to generate any more miniatures to be sculpted?
The 2000AD list is so rich in famous characters, I could make a list as long as my arm of stuff I would love to see!

Very likely (four more Brit-Cit guys are already in the works, and we'll have news on more in a few days). As for your list, we have a long one too, but take a trip to our forums (http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewforum.php?f=102&sid=786312502e796e942a2c05a608cf72ca) and add yours - this line is pretty much driven by requests!

 Conrad Turner wrote:
I'd have preferred the more common Pat-Wagon.

Funny you should say that Stay tuned.

wally squad. make it happen

The KS is pretty vague. REALLY vague in fact. Reminds me a lot of the original Mantic Kickstarter, which I was pretty critical of at the time. There's not a lot of real information there. There's no greens, there's no concept art, there's no timeline for these new figures or book or how the KS money will speed things along other than it lets you be "more ambitious". There's a lot of mentions of getting either the current or the new gangs at different pledge levels, but no indication on what those new gangs would be.

Well, you do mention SoV invasion Force and Dark Judges (and possibly brit-cit judges, it's unclear if they're a seperate faction or just alternate judge models). How many gangs will there be in the book? When could we expect to see the models released?

I would highly suggest coming out with a nice overview of what will be in the book. An index page with giant "work in progress" plastered on top could be a fantastic teaser image! Or even just a list of the gangs that will be in the book and a description of them. Concept art would be wonderful. Maybe a few choice weapons or special rules teases. Something.

I just got the update, and I have to say that made me laugh.

Update:

Just a quickie update (lots more to come!).

First, by popular demand, we have added a 'mid-level' pledge, the Wally Squad Judge - five box sets (of your choice, including any unlocked by future stretch goals, plus Walter the Wobot) for $150.

Second, we have posted a preview of sorts of the Block War supplement on Planet Mongoose.

Third, many of you have been asking for clearer images of the actual models. Picture of all the models in the current box sets below, or click here for a really big picture with lots of detail!

 Kalamadea wrote:

Well, you do mention SoV invasion Force and Dark Judges (and possibly brit-cit judges, it's unclear if they're a seperate faction or just alternate judge models). How many gangs will there be in the book? When could we expect to see the models released?

I would highly suggest coming out with a nice overview of what will be in the book. An index page with giant "work in progress" plastered on top could be a fantastic teaser image! Or even just a list of the gangs that will be in the book and a description of them. Concept art would be wonderful. Maybe a few choice weapons or special rules teases. Something.

I get where you are coming from on this, and over the next few days you will see a) specifics on new forces and b) the actual Block War supplement itself (have you seen the Planet Mongoose preview?). However, one of the things we would like to do is have the players/pledgers themselves suggest and choose which forces they wish to see next, and incorporate that into stretch goals. This game has always been player driven in terms of rules and this seems a great opportunity to do the same with miniatures.

The Brit-Cit Judges, BTW, are a seperate faction, with their own set of equipment and force list. They will be the first to appear in the Block War supplement.

Update:

Just managed to get a photo done of all four of these chaps together - these are the models you will receive for the Brit-Cit Judge pledge level.

These judges are a brand new faction, with their own specialised equipment and quirks, though Mega-City One judges may use them as 'Mercenaries.' We are already working on some reinforcements for them (such as the Plod Bot!), and the draft rules for their use will be appearing in a day or two in the Block War supplement.

Brit-Cit Judges?!?

I'm in!!

Just a quickie update (lots more to come!).
First, by popular demand, we have added a 'mid-level' pledge, the Wally Squad Judge - five box sets (of your choice, including any unlocked by future stretch goals, plus Walter the Wobot) for $150.
Second, we have posted a preview of sorts of the Block War supplement on Planet Mongoose.
Third, many of you have been asking for clearer images of the actual models. Picture of all the models in the current box sets below, or click here for a really big picture with lots of detail!

Good start, but more biggerer.

Seriously. Each boxed set should have large hi-res images of the same size/quality as this:



Now I may be some random noisy prick on the internet, but I buy a lot of models. GW sells a lot of models. If I want to see what any current GW figure looks like, I can get a really good quality picture from their website. You're in the business of selling models, and people like to see what they're buying. I figure it can only help your business of selling models, particularly in a Kickstarter situation.

I'd also like to see "Boxed sets" (whether they're packed in actual boxes or not) of all your Justice Department models included in this. The Ape gang or the Fatties are fine, the juves or wasteland mutants are nice in their way, but at the same time, I've got piles of generic gangbangers and so forth. I'm into Judge Dredd for the Judges. I imagine many others wolud be the same. Once I saw that the boxed sets don't actually include all your Judge/Justice models (including the specialists, etc) my immediate thought was to drop my pledge by however much to just get the Judge models. I've left it for now, but please give us a way to get all of the Judges, and skip the non-Judges if we decide to...