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Good day kind Sirs,

So after all those dicussions about flyers and autohit weapons/abilites(especially Imoteks storm) and after the recent FAQ i still not sure if my FMC can get hit by lets say Necron Immortals' carabines' autohits...

Tesla doesn't auto-hit. They still use BS, and they still have to Snap Shot to hit the flyer. So they're fine. They get bonus hits on 6s as well; nothing in the flyer rules or the Tesla rules states that the bonus 6s don't count on snap shots.

It's not like Sniper weapons, which specifically don't get their Precise Shots rule if they're Snap Firing.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Tesla doesn't auto-hit. They still use BS, and they still have to Snap Shot to hit the flyer. So they're fine. They get bonus hits on 6s as well; nothing in the flyer rules or the Tesla rules states that the bonus 6s don't count on snap shots.

It's not like Sniper weapons, which specifically don't get their Precise Shots rule if they're Snap Firing.

I think he's talking about the arcing from destructors.

Immortals' carbines don't do that.

I was talking about the normal "tesla type" - ability of tesla weapons. In particular about those 2 additional atacks on 6s, since those are automatic hits, and after recent FAQ everyone said that automatic hits can't hit flyers, since you don not roll BS for them or smth. But my common sense tells me they would still be hit.

randomguy8891 wrote:
I was talking about the normal "tesla type" - ability of tesla weapons. In particular about those 2 additional atacks on 6s, since those are automatic hits, and after recent FAQ everyone said that automatic hits can't hit flyers, since you don not roll BS for them or smth. But my common sense tells me they would still be hit.

To get the Tesla effect you still need to roll a 6 for it to happen so it's not automatic. You're still rolling to hit the target with your Ballistsic Skill. Even though you get 2 extra hits by rolling a 6, you still had to roll the dice to hit. That's what makes A-Barges great Triple-A platforms....needing 6's to hit but twin linked usually means at least 3 strength 7 hits on average against an enemy flier when you shoot.

It is a good point, those 2 extra hits are described as "automatic hits", and automatic hits can't hit a Zooming flyer.

Not quite, the actual ruling is:
"Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas."

All Tesla weapons 'roll-to-hit', even if they also 'hit automatically' with the additional arcs. The arcs are not a seperate weapon, so there is no reason to resolve them seperately from the initial shot(s).

Just to add food for thought on this:

BRB FAQ v1a top of page 3 wrote:
Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically
when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes.

It would seem that this would answer the question of the original poster.

Excellent, i was worried for a minute there.

 Zathras wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:
I was talking about the normal "tesla type" - ability of tesla weapons. In particular about those 2 additional atacks on 6s, since those are automatic hits, and after recent FAQ everyone said that automatic hits can't hit flyers, since you don not roll BS for them or smth. But my common sense tells me they would still be hit.

To get the Tesla effect you still need to roll a 6 for it to happen so it's not automatic. You're still rolling to hit the target with your Ballistsic Skill. Even though you get 2 extra hits by rolling a 6, you still had to roll the dice to hit. That's what makes A-Barges great Triple-A platforms....needing 6's to hit but twin linked usually means at least 3 strength 7 hits on average against an enemy flier when you shoot.

The question is, did you roll to-hit for the extra hits? You rolled for the original hit only..

40k-noob wrote:
Just to add food for thought on this:

BRB FAQ v1a top of page 3 wrote:
Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically
when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes.

It would seem that this would answer the question of the original poster.

Nope, thats completly different story
Flyers have diefferent special rules regarding Snap Shots, that was already discussed many times, but there are still a lot of unclear questions, like this one

 Shandara wrote:

 Zathras wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:
I was talking about the normal "tesla type" - ability of tesla weapons. In particular about those 2 additional atacks on 6s, since those are automatic hits, and after recent FAQ everyone said that automatic hits can't hit flyers, since you don not roll BS for them or smth. But my common sense tells me they would still be hit.

To get the Tesla effect you still need to roll a 6 for it to happen so it's not automatic. You're still rolling to hit the target with your Ballistsic Skill. Even though you get 2 extra hits by rolling a 6, you still had to roll the dice to hit. That's what makes A-Barges great Triple-A platforms....needing 6's to hit but twin linked usually means at least 3 strength 7 hits on average against an enemy flier when you shoot.

The question is, did you roll to-hit for the extra hits? You rolled for the original hit only..

Thats exactly my point

Yes, you did. (roll to hit that is) The additional hits are resolved as part of the initial tesla shot itself, not some other quasi-weapon which you'd need to check for seperately. That and you can still auto-hit while snapshot-ing, as the poster (and the FAQ) below my prior note helpfully pointed out.

That FAQ entry is aimed at using auto hit abilities while snap shotting at other things than Flyers.

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
novas.

The rule does not allow auto hits to target them.

Tesla weapons do not auto hit so they can be targeted at a zooming flyer. When i roll a 6 I get my 1 plus the 2 auto hits because the weapon already targeted and shot.

The 2 auto hits are not part of the original shot sequence which followed the normal shooting rules (pick target, check range, roll to-hit, etc..)

They are an additional effect that causes automatic hits without having to roll additional to-hit dice.

It's not really clear cut whether they are allowed to.

If it had said "For each 6 to-hit, rolled you cause 3 hits instead of 1" for instance it would be in my view.

Fact is, you did a snap shot on the FMC (or Flyer). So the "attack" from the Tesla carbine has been resolved as a snap shot. That the 6 creates 2 extra hits has nothing to do with it.

Important is, that the initial attack has been a snap shot, which isnt the case when you draw a line or have an area of effect or a blast or template weapon.

randomguy8891 wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
Just to add food for thought on this:

BRB FAQ v1a top of page 3 wrote:
Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically
when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes.

It would seem that this would answer the question of the original poster.

Nope, thats completly different story
Flyers have diefferent special rules regarding Snap Shots, that was already discussed many times, but there are still a lot of unclear questions, like this one

No, I believe that is entirely correct. The Hard to Hit rule says that only Snap Shot can hit Flyers. It is even reiterated in the FAQ posted by Knightpredator. "Only Snapshot can hit..."

If you are allowed to target the Flyer(weapon is not a beam, blast, template or area affect) and can hit with snap shots then it is allowed.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shandara wrote:
The 2 auto hits are not part of the original shot sequence which followed the normal shooting rules (pick target, check range, roll to-hit, etc..)

They are an additional effect that causes automatic hits without having to roll additional to-hit dice.

It's not really clear cut whether they are allowed to.

If it had said "For each 6 to-hit, rolled you cause 3 hits instead of 1" for instance it would be in my view.

It is clear.

"A. Only Snap Shots can hit flyers..." plus "Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes."

makes it very clear.

Those 2 additional hits, hit automatically as snap shots.

Shandara wrote:The 2 auto hits are not part of the original shot sequence which followed the normal shooting rules (pick target, check range, roll to-hit, etc..)

They are an additional effect that causes automatic hits without having to roll additional to-hit dice.

It's not really clear cut whether they are allowed to.

If it had said "For each 6 to-hit, rolled you cause 3 hits instead of 1" for instance it would be in my view.

Tesla Carbines must target fliers, and do so as a snap shot. However, they score two additional hits if they roll a six on their to-hit roll. That's all there is to it.

You are attempting to bifurcate a single game mechanic into two parts, which is not the case.

I'd recommend not suggesting the other poster is being deliberately obtuse, but i agree with your latter statement: the Tesla weapons' effects should be resolved on a 'per shot' basis rather than differentiated between the shot you rolled a 6 for and other hits which happen as a result.

Concur. The weapon rolls to hit, and it needs to Snap Shot. If it gets the 6 to hit, that fulfills the requirements BOTH for the rules for targeting flyers, and for the Tesla rule which grants bonus hits on that shot.