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Maybe we'll have an OMGTWIST and find out that Arya is arguing with Sansa and sneaking around in plain sight doing dumb things and in fact playing Littlefinger, who thought he was playing her all along?

 Vaktathi wrote:

John coming out of a frozen lake and being apparently bone dry seconds later when Benjin shows up, Dragons showing up seemingly in just hours after Gendry runs off, increasingly obvious foreshadowing, etc ad nauseum.

Jon wasn't bone dry, he was freeze dried. Like when they got him onto the boat they had to crack the frozen furs off him.

 Necros wrote:
Arya and Sansa will kiss and make up soon enough, not worried about that plot line.

The oddity of it is that Arya has NEVER liked Sansa even a little bit, but they haven't actually crossed paths since season 1. It wouldn't be nearly as jarring to see them at odds with one another if it hadn't literally been years since their last scene together. It's just very weird timing more than anything.

While I generally enjoyed the episode, the flight time is a little bit of an annoying stretch. Pity really, as they had a whole exchange between Dany and Tyrion where she is obviously impatient and he's lecturing her about being impulsive. They could have just had a storm off with a "this is taking too long" statement and at least get her to Eastwatch to receive the news.

Pretty much the entire episode was pure horse gak.

Yep - apart from the dialogue - that was good -some nice stuff. But oh Look Zombie Bear, oh look Dragons........

Ravens and dragons that fly at super sonic speeds.

Yeah that was just awful writing. Skipping unimportant travel and just sayng time passes is fine - Come up with a magic reason how Dany gets the message - whatever but not this crap

The Night King only breaks out his super deadly accurate spear to down the dragon, yet not one arrow or spear to be used against the party when they are trapped on the ice? Instead he surrounds them and stands at a distance as if for some reason he needs to take Jon alive rather than kill him and just raise his corpse. He's already attempted to kill Jon so why the restraint now other than to use it as a poor excuse to have the dragons fly to the rescue. Just terrible, not only do the dragons provide a poorly written LOTR eagles moment but on top of that Jon has to be further saved by Ben who also just appears out of nowhere. Apparently he exists only to lurk around the north on the odd chance that he'll need to save Jon. We're in the 7th season of Jon being dumb as hell and bumbling his way through things only to be saved time and time again by everyone else, it's so damn tiring.

Everyone exists to save Jon - then they usually die.

The Night King is laser accurate at 1,000 yards with his spear but never once throw it at Jon or anyone on the ice, then only goes after the dragon flying on it's own rather than the one on the ground before it can fly away with all the people he's trying to kill? Also something that's always annoyed me about him is the lack of any sort of movement or suggestion of emotion. Even the basic undead hiss and snarl in anger which gives them at least a sort of animalistic sense of threat, he just stands around glaring and doesn't seem to move or apply any sense of effort to anything, even when he somehow hurls his spear with titanic dragon killing strength. He's about as boring on screen as Jon.

Not really thought about it but yeah - I suppose they are going for the emotionless enemy in contrast to say Ramsey or Euron - whio I loved.

I get that people have been clamoring for the dragons to be onscreen for multiple seasons but now they are just throwing them in for thrill effect rather than spending the time writing or setting up a scene that doesn't feel like a forced version of super friends.

Dragons are cool and the death scene was impressive - I guess it does show that the Undead are actually powerful.

Apparently they are within a short run of the wall now - probably - as Bran knows with his flock of Raven vision - again - he sends ahuge flock of them in once place ratehr than a single bird that might be missed. seriously is Bran on their side or is he just that annoying exposition guy in a rpg you want to kill but the gm won't let you. Naybe he could have told Sansa some useful things rather than wittering on about her being pretty before she was raped.

Arya who has all her supposed stealth training and face magic is the worst spy ever. She can apparently engineer the death of an entire throne room full of people but can't walk down the hallway without being seen in her true face by Little Finger. For a supposed master assassin she's about as sharp witted as a rock in this episode. The in fighting between them is incredibly stupid and she flips between trying to be hard core lone wolf yet fiercely close to her family and stalwart to the point she'd turn on her sister for Jon?

Sort of agree but I think Arya thinks she is a cold masater assassin and does have some of the skills but emitionally she is only a bit more devleoped than her sister.

Again I thik the show just wanted tension which sort of works as the characters don't really like each other and never have done and may of us with siblings can relate.

 d-usa wrote:
I hope that Sansa sending Briene away is a sign that she knows that Littlefinger is trying to get her to fight Arya. I also worry that Littlefinger was playing Sansa to get rid of Briene.

I'd love it if the culmination of his arc was Littlefinger making his move to put Sansa in charge of the north in front of all the other lords, but she refuses and guts him with the fancy dagger

Tamereth wrote:
Though I do wish one of them had asked how those flaming swords worked.

From the books: Beric uses his blood to ignite his swords (if I remember correctly they also need to be replaced as the fire makes them brittle or something).

Mario wrote:

Tamereth wrote:
Though I do wish one of them had asked how those flaming swords worked.

From the books: Beric uses his blood to ignite his swords (if I remember correctly they also need to be replaced as the fire makes them brittle or something).

You would have thought one of them might have said - can you light up my sword - well not the Hound.

Was it only Jorah who had a tiny Dragonglass dagger.

Apparently they are now claiming that they sat around on the island for days whilst Firest Gendry ran to the wall and fetched help....

Well new episode title coming is Dragon and the Wolf it seems.

So something gonna happen between those two.
Be they finding they are family or standard Targerian relationships...

 Mr Morden wrote:
You would have thought one of them might have said - can you light up my sword - well not the Hound.

Was it only Jorah who had a tiny Dragonglass dagger.

Apparently they are now claiming that they sat around on the island for days whilst Firest Gendry ran to the wall and fetched help....

Jorah had two dragonglass daggers, Tormund had a dragonglass axe, the hound had a dragonglass pick, Beric had his flaming sword and Jon had Longclaw.

The episode director is saying in interviews that they spent one long night on the island, not several days. And yes, they knew they were straining plausibility, but hoped the strength of what was actually happening onscreen would carry the day, which I can personally accept.

 jhe90 wrote:
Well new episode title coming is Dragon and the Wolf it seems.

So something gonna happen between those two.
Be they finding they are family or standard Targerian relationships...

Standard GRM you mean

Of the surving Great Houses it happens in both Targaryians and Lanisters and nearly in Ironborn and dodgy stuff with someof the Wildlings, isn't Sams girl pregnant with her fathers child?

its a central theme that Dany and Jon are getting together - not to my taste but fan pleasing as can be seen from the last episode. I don't really see any chemistry there myself.

Jorah had two dragonglass daggers, Tormund had a dragonglass axe, the hound had a dragonglass pick, Beric had his flaming sword and Jon had Longclaw
The episode director is saying in interviews that they spent one long night on the island, not several days. And yes, they knew they were straining plausibility, but hoped the strength of what was actually happening onscreen would carry the day, which I can personally accept.

thanks - missed that the other weapons were dragonglass - saw the daggers.

Nah Sadly for me it shot plausibility, dug its grave and walked away. The previous travel stuff was fine - this was laughable. Each to their own.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Well new episode title coming is Dragon and the Wolf it seems.

So something gonna happen between those two.
Be they finding they are family or standard Targerian relationships...

Standard GRM you mean

Of the surving Great Houses it happens in both Targaryians and Lanisters and nearly in Ironborn and dodgy stuff with someof the Wildlings, isn't Sams girl pregnant with her fathers child?

its a central theme that Dany and Jon are getting together - not to my taste but fan pleasing as can be seen from the last episode. I don't really see any chemistry there myself.

Jorah had two dragonglass daggers, Tormund had a dragonglass axe, the hound had a dragonglass pick, Beric had his flaming sword and Jon had Longclaw
The episode director is saying in interviews that they spent one long night on the island, not several days. And yes, they knew they were straining plausibility, but hoped the strength of what was actually happening onscreen would carry the day, which I can personally accept.

thanks - missed that the other weapons were dragonglass - saw the daggers.

Nah Sadly for me it shot plausibility, dug its grave and walked away. The previous travel stuff was fine - this was laughable. Each to their own.

Yes. Sams girlfriend was castors daughter.
Thr baby is castors by Birth.

And well given they both have now got massive trauma issues Jon and Danby might start to work more. Now also she might not be saying bend the knee every 5 minutes.

It could work.
Also well in any other show we be shocked.
I Got we shrug.

Well done GRM...

 paulson games wrote:
The Night King is laser accurate at 1,000 yards with his spear but never once throw it at Jon or anyone on the ice, then only goes after the dragon flying on it's own rather than the one on the ground before it can fly away with all the people he's trying to kill? Also something that's always annoyed me about him is the lack of any sort of movement or suggestion of emotion. Even the basic undead hiss and snarl in anger which gives them at least a sort of animalistic sense of threat, he just stands around glaring and doesn't seem to move or apply any sense of effort to anything, even when he somehow hurls his spear with titanic dragon killing strength. He's about as boring on screen as Jon.

What was the rush? The Night's King has all the time in the world to sit there and wait for them to freeze to death. I also rather like that he's completely emotionless but YMMV.

He emotes about as much as Bran does, so there's that.

Also to consider for the next Episode:

The Hound is making a delivery, in Kings Landing. Where the Mountain is.

Get Hype.

I don't think the Night King is emotionless, he just doesn't emote as much/strongly. There was definitely emotion conveyed during the seen where he raises all the newly dead Wildlings while standing on the dock in front of Jon.

 AduroT wrote:
I don't think the Night King is emotionless, he just doesn't emote as much/strongly. There was definitely emotion conveyed during the seen where he raises all the newly dead Wildlings while standing on the dock in front of Jon.

Yeah, he is thousands of years old, ancient and patient. And he has all time time the world to do his plans, winter can last years, he can wait days.

Speaking of Arya and Sansas thing. Can someone explain why little finger convinced Sansa to send Brienne away? I clearly missed the point entirely but it made no sense to me.




But I loved how terrifying Arya was in there little chat in her room. Damn that chick is scary

I got the impression that he was encouraging Sansa to use Brienne to deal with Arya, and that sending her away was a counter to his suggestion.

I also think that Arya was playing the game and lying with everything she said, and that she is letting Littlefinger think that he's got her as well.

Clearly the Night King waited to attack Jon because he knew that would bring dragons to his aid. I think the Night King NEEDS a dragon for part of his plan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
I got the impression that he was encouraging Sansa to use Brienne to deal with Arya, and that sending her away was a counter to his suggestion.

I also think that Arya was playing the game and lying with everything she said, and that she is letting Littlefinger think that he's got her as well.

Well THAT makes some sense! Ok Ill go with that line of reasoning then. I also think Arya is playing Little Finger as well. Arya has become an incredibly efficient killer with the wit to match. Little Finger is clever yes, but I think his weakness is he thinks hes so clever no one can see him coming

 paulson games wrote:
The Night King is laser accurate at 1,000 yards with his spear but never once throw it at Jon or anyone on the ice, then only goes after the dragon flying on it's own rather than the one on the ground before it can fly away with all the people he's trying to kill? Also something that's always annoyed me about him is the lack of any sort of movement or suggestion of emotion. Even the basic undead hiss and snarl in anger which gives them at least a sort of animalistic sense of threat, he just stands around glaring and doesn't seem to move or apply any sense of effort to anything, even when he somehow hurls his spear with titanic dragon killing strength. He's about as boring on screen as Jon.

KingCracker wrote:Clearly the Night King waited to attack Jon because he knew that would bring dragons to his aid. I think the Night King NEEDS a dragon for part of his plan.

That was my feeling. I don't think he cared much about the Fellowship. He just wanted himself a dragon so was hanging on until they turned up. And he was turned into the Night's King what, ten-thousand years or more ago? Probably past getting extremely excited about anything. Plenty of time to get really comfortable with being slow, calm and methodical in all those years. He's pretty much Mortarion.

Yeha thats a possibility and even if he is not Bran or tapping Brans thoughts or whatever - his pet Polar Bears would have told him they were coming - plus the guy who got dragged off by one may have done so.

Of course he could have just killed the Fellowship and got them to stand on the island as fi they were still alive..........who would of or could have known until it was too late. Perrhaps he just fancies Jon.

Hell how did they even find the place as Gendry had only ever been there once and did not come with Dany....

Very Poor episode, but hopeflly next one will be good

Well the army of the dead isnt exactly inconspicuous. And who know maybe Gendry just ran mostly south to the wall. Meaning the directions are as easy as "fly due north from the gate"

Im not trying to make excuses though this whole season has been rather.......I wouldnt say bad but Ill leave it at that.

 KingCracker wrote:
Clearly the Night King waited to attack Jon because he knew that would bring dragons to his aid. I think the Night King NEEDS a dragon for part of his plan.

How did he know that sparing Jon would lead to a dragon coming to rescue him? I mean, it's not exactly common knowledge, and how would he know that Daenerys was coming, let alone that she had dragons?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Clearly the Night King waited to attack Jon because he knew that would bring dragons to his aid. I think the Night King NEEDS a dragon for part of his plan.

How did he know that sparing Jon would lead to a dragon coming to rescue him? I mean, it's not exactly common knowledge, and how would he know that Daenerys was coming, let alone that she had dragons?

Because the Night King is Bran Stark from the future, who got trapped in the past in the body of the First Man who was transformed by the Children of The Forest into the Night King and therefore the Night King has the same Warging and Green-seeing abilities of Bran that let you view events from thousands of miles away?

Seriously thats an actual theory doing the rounds on Youtube now.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Seriously thats an actual theory doing the rounds on Youtube now.

At least we can say the Book vs Show crowd has one thing in common, stupid theories.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Seriously thats an actual theory doing the rounds on Youtube now.

At least we can say the Book vs Show crowd has one thing in common, stupid theories.

Well its not entirely implausible. We know that Bran CAN directly affect the past, when he nuked Hodor's brain and called out to his father Ned who heard him on the steps of the Tower of Joy.

The former Three Eyed Raven warned Bran that if he spends too much time in the past, he may lose himself.

EDIT: And as LunarSol brings up, when Old Nan tells Bran about all the stories and legends of all the various Brandon Starks throughout history she tends to confuse and conflate them all into one person. That could also be foreshadowing.

They are both masters of the emotionless blank stare.

It's actually not too far out of bounds really. Even in the first book, when Bran first gets hurt they use it as an excuse to drop backstory on all the great Brandon Starks throughout history that he's named after. Seems like a plausible way to make the finale actually character based instead of random evil invasion to a story that is far and way not that.

 LunarSol wrote:
It's actually not too far out of bounds really. Even in the first book, when Bran first gets hurt they use it as an excuse to drop backstory on all the great Brandon Starks throughout history that he's named after. Seems like a plausible way to make the finale actually character based instead of random evil invasion to a story that is far and way not that.

Yes, when Old Nan is telling stories and legends to Bran, she gets the various Brandon Starks throughout history confused and has a tendency to conflate them all into one person.

So all of the other Brandons in history are the same Brandon, skipping around through time? So would that make him his own great, great, great, great grandfather?