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Won a little RTT this weekend with my Genestealer Cult. We were playing on short chess clocks for speed 40k. Using ITC missions.

I went 42-13 vs sisters of battle
42-1 vs sisters of battle and blood angels
35-13 vs Ultramarines
35-13 vs Deathwatch

Power armour everywhere, good job my genestealers sharpened their claws

Picked up the Overkill box set the other day and want to dabble in GSC. Had some questions.

1) How many genestealers should I buy if I plan on playing at 2k?

2) If I take a GSC can I then take a IG battalion with mass scion drop spam and have them benefit from all rules in the AM codex? If so can I also just take a Catachan TC and tanks because they seem better than the Battle Tank in the GSC index. Unless Im missing something.

3) Reading through the Index I can't see a way around the 50% must be deployed. I can't cult ambush my entire army correct?

4) Kind of confusing on this box set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen acolytes. Are they all just acolyte hybrids in the index? Got the box from a Deathwatch player so has no rules. Also why two different kits for Neophyte Hybrids? The Cadian one and a more GSC looking one?

5) How should I build the army up from here? Is battleforce insurrection best or neophytes?

Any general tips for the GSC? Not looking to be super competitive.

Thanks!

Sneggy wrote:
Won a little RTT this weekend with my Genestealer Cult. We were playing on short chess clocks for speed 40k. Using ITC missions.

I went 42-13 vs sisters of battle
42-1 vs sisters of battle and blood angels
35-13 vs Ultramarines
35-13 vs Deathwatch

Power armour everywhere, good job my genestealers sharpened their claws

Excellent!

Could you describe your armylist and a bit about how you played it? What seemed to work out well?

Incognito15 wrote:
Picked up the Overkill box set the other day and want to dabble in GSC. Had some questions.

1) How many genestealers should I buy if I plan on playing at 2k?

2) If I take a GSC can I then take a IG battalion with mass scion drop spam and have them benefit from all rules in the AM codex? If so can I also just take a Catachan TC and tanks because they seem better than the Battle Tank in the GSC index. Unless Im missing something.

3) Reading through the Index I can't see a way around the 50% must be deployed. I can't cult ambush my entire army correct?

4) Kind of confusing on this box set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen acolytes. Are they all just acolyte hybrids in the index? Got the box from a Deathwatch player so has no rules. Also why two different kits for Neophyte Hybrids? The Cadian one and a more GSC looking one?

5) How should I build the army up from here? Is battleforce insurrection best or neophytes?

Any general tips for the GSC? Not looking to be super competitive.

Thanks!

1. Think the general consensus os 0-3 Units of 12-20. I personakt like 2 Units of 16 in a spam Heavy meta.
2. If tanks are flat out better (-10 points, can take orders) as the gsc buffs except maybe magus don’t help em. You are however prevented from taking regimental doctrines as your regiment must be “brood brothers” who don’t benefit (check if FAQs)
3. Correct. But try deploying Ig mainly
4. 1 and 2 gems are acolytes, 3 and 4 is neophytes. The two different kits are just different models with different model option, but rule wise identical.
5. Skip the battle force, to many duplicates. I’d like 2-3 big ambushing units to go with a character and stratagem, and 1-2 units of neophytes to ambush onto objectives and meat shield for the magus. Buy 2 boxes of stealers, one Goliath gang that you convert to a total of 6 abberants, convert in some rock saw acolytes.

For the rest of the points, go for either a guard or a mid detachment imo

Mellon wrote:

Sneggy wrote:
Won a little RTT this weekend with my Genestealer Cult. We were playing on short chess clocks for speed 40k. Using ITC missions.

I went 42-13 vs sisters of battle
42-1 vs sisters of battle and blood angels
35-13 vs Ultramarines
35-13 vs Deathwatch

Power armour everywhere, good job my genestealers sharpened their claws

Excellent!

Could you describe your armylist and a bit about how you played it? What seemed to work out well?

I was playing Genestealer cult and Tyranids (but majority GSC for ITC faction definition)

Took:
Magus,
Primus
2x15 purestrains
2x neophytes with mortars
1x5 acolytes

2xNeurothropes
19 termagants
2x3 rippers
6 hive guard
3 biovores

Basic plan was deploy all tyranids except the rippers and the magus. Depending on match ups I sometimes deployed the neophytes too.

Then it was pretty simple. control the objectives and board using the screens, biovores make spores/do mortal wounds for fun and games.
The genestealers ambush in (using meticulous uprising) to pin my opponent back and assist me in dominating the board.
Rippers and neophytes drop in to take recon/behind enemy lines/objectives/generally be a nuisance.
My acolyte unit was included because I didnt get my GW order so didnt have enough neophytes. They died horribly in 2 games. hid behind a wall in game 3 and in game 4 I completely forgot them and they died in the sewers of reserves.

Notable moments included:
A magus surviving celestines charge and then smiting her last wound off her.
My Neophytes beating a different celestine to death with their lasgun butts.
My genestealers in game 2 both got 6's on ambush and charging an entire sisters of battle army was particularly impressive.

Timeshadow wrote:So I need a solid opinion on baneblade chassis. I have the money set aside but I don't have any experience with them. Which is the best for the points and effectiveness for the army.

I haven't had a chance to play with a Baneblade (or variant thereof) but from what I understand the Shadowsword (the one with the Volcano Cannon) is one of the more popular variants due to their ability to wreck most multi-wound targets in a single volley from range. The Stormlord is also fairly popular due to its transport capacity and hoard control capabilities, which might be useful for GSC. Not sure on the other variants as I haven't seen much discussion regarding them.

Might be worth hopping over to the Astra Miltarum thread to see if they have any advice and report back here.

Sneggy wrote:Won a little RTT this weekend with my Genestealer Cult. We were playing on short chess clocks for speed 40k. Using ITC missions.

I went 42-13 vs sisters of battle
42-1 vs sisters of battle and blood angels
35-13 vs Ultramarines
35-13 vs Deathwatch

Power armour everywhere, good job my genestealers sharpened their claws

Congratulations on your victory! Seeing your list further down, what Hive Fleet did you use to compliment your hybrids?

Incognito15 wrote:Picked up the Overkill box set the other day and want to dabble in GSC. Had some questions.

1) How many genestealers should I buy if I plan on playing at 2k?

2) If I take a GSC can I then take a IG battalion with mass scion drop spam and have them benefit from all rules in the AM codex? If so can I also just take a Catachan TC and tanks because they seem better than the Battle Tank in the GSC index. Unless Im missing something.

3) Reading through the Index I can't see a way around the 50% must be deployed. I can't cult ambush my entire army correct?

4) Kind of confusing on this box set with 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen acolytes. Are they all just acolyte hybrids in the index? Got the box from a Deathwatch player so has no rules. Also why two different kits for Neophyte Hybrids? The Cadian one and a more GSC looking one?

5) How should I build the army up from here? Is battleforce insurrection best or neophytes?

Any general tips for the GSC? Not looking to be super competitive.

Thanks!

1.) You'll probably want between 30 and 40 'stealers give or take. Redundancy is your friend with GSC and Purestrains want to be in larger units for their Flurry of Claws bonus and to make better use of a Primus' ambush modifications.

2.) I don't think it is currently possible to bring pure Scions in the allied detachment since per the FAQ models within said detachment must replace their <Regiment> keyword with Brood Brothers and Scions have a fixed "Miltarium Tempestus" regiment keyword. The Astra Miltarum Codex itself allows them to be included with a <regiment> at the cost of not using their own keyword's benefits, but I'm not sure if that would allow them to fit into a Brood Brothers detachment or not. As far as Russes go they are fine taken in-faction until you get to ~3 vehicles, at which point a Spearhead or High Command open up and they can be moved to a Brood Brothers detachment and gain the benefits of tank orders and AM stratagems.

3.) Currently no workaround other than to construct your list with an "anvil" that remains on the table (usually handled by allies or mechanized elements) with the ambushing portions acting as a "hammer". Chapter Approved brought back Return to Shadows as a stratagem but it only works on 1 unit a turn in matched play due to the restrictions on stratagems. That said, you could use it to add another ambusher if you run out of ambush slots, but they won't be able to arrive until turn 2 at the earliest.

4.) The 1st and 2nd generation hybrids are the Acolytes (the ones that look like 3-armed Genestealers in mining suits) while the 3rd and 4th generation hybrids are Neophytes. The Militant (Cadian) Neophyte kit exists to provide a bundle for the GSC upgrade sprue for converting Astra Militarum units to GSC units and provides the parts to build Neophyte heavy weapon teams while the Industrial Neophyte kit provides Shotguns and the heavy mining weapons. Both are the same unit within the army, just different equipment options and aesthetics.

5.) The Cult Insurrection box isn't a bad place to start as almost everything within it will be useful for you. The main issue with the box is that it doesn't have any duplicate sprues so it is a bit short on special weapons compared to buying duplicate individual boxes, though in exchange it does offer a $75 discount on its components. Going from Overkill I'd probably look towards adding some vehicles, as they provide a bit of deployment flexibility and an "anvil" for the ambushers as previously stated.

As a general piece of advice, the biggest difficulty with GSC is learning when to ambush and when to hold back. It isn't something that can really be learned in one or two games but rather requires a bit of trial and error to figure out when to strike and when to sulk in the shadows.

I was running kronos, with that much shooting theres no reason not to. I also had the warlord as the neurothrope for soul hunger.

Wanted to be sure before iassembling my models, this is legal, right?
For 15 models i have Leader, 9 random guys and 5 heavy weapons guys.
Is the cult icon model a separate model or does the leader carry it in games?
Its just for building, i can always say what model represents what but easier when Heavy weapon guys are what they are supposed to be.

Acolyte Hybrids
Selections: Cult Icon
9x Acolyte Hybrid
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Demolition Charges
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Drill
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Leader
Selections: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Araablane wrote:
Wanted to be sure before iassembling my models, this is legal, right?
For 15 models i have Leader, 9 random guys and 5 heavy weapons guys.
Is the cult icon model a separate model or does the leader carry it in games?
Its just for building, i can always say what model represents what but easier when Heavy weapon guys are what they are supposed to be.

Acolyte Hybrids
Selections: Cult Icon
9x Acolyte Hybrid
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Demolition Charges
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Cutter
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Drill
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon)
Selections: Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Leader
Selections: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Yepp, that looks absolutely legal. Two heavy weapons per 5 acolytes in the unit. So 15 models in total means you can even have 6 heavy weapons.

"One Acolyte Hybrid may carry a cult icon." So not the leader, but any one of the others in the group may carry it.

Building your army will be a lot easier if you get the Index instead of relying on BattleScribe ;-)

Hello sirs!

I'm stepping back into 40k after a layoff and wanted to try and rebuild my old GSC army. I've got my Sisters on the go at the moment, but I fancy trying out a CC faction as well - I played both Daemons and GSC in 7th, and of the two I enjoyed GSC a lot more (mostly because RttS/ Ambush shenanigans were awesome).

With that in mind I have a few questions for the more experienced GSC players:

- How much different is the army nowadays? In 7th I played a Decurion full of MSU Hybrids for max Ambush rolls - the army relied on Psychic Summons, Decurion bonuses and RttS to function, and in all honesty it was a little OP against certain lists, but it made for a hellishly fast playstyle with all kinds of tactical flexibility. Is it still like that, or has the Strat-ification of RttS made the army more Ork-like (i.e. mongle forward and charge, then do it again)?

- I want to play Tyranids. I like monsters, and I want to have monsters in my army, but last Edition having Nids as Allies was kinda inefficient - 500pts for 2 Flyrants meant losing 30-50 Hybrids, and that just wasn't happening. Also the Shadow messed with Summons and that sucked. Are Nid allies more viable now?

- What precisely is the deal with Astroglide Guard allies? Are they worth taking? Can you bring them alongside Nids for a Nid soup army?

Thanks!

 BBAP wrote:

- How much different is the army nowadays? In 7th I played a Decurion full of MSU Hybrids for max Ambush rolls - the army relied on Psychic Summons, Decurion bonuses and RttS to function, and in all honesty it was a little OP against certain lists, but it made for a hellishly fast playstyle with all kinds of tactical flexibility. Is it still like that, or has the Strat-ification of RttS made the army more Ork-like (i.e. mongle forward and charge, then do it again)?

I think the traditional image of the Dark Eldar is probably a closer approximation than Orks. Units are fairly fragile but they hit fairly hard and can get up the board very quickly between ambushers and mechanized troops.

The main difference from 7th with the index version of the army currently is that the ambushers will generally want to be in larger units rather than the MSU swarm of old. The main culprit is the matched play rules which require at least half of the units in the army start the game on the table so swarms of small units require a greater investment in non-ambushing models than a handful of larger units. The new ambush modification abilities granted to the Primus also incentivize taking larger units to maximize the amount of force concentration he can deliver at a time and certain unit rules reward larger units as well (Cult Icons now allow rerolls of 1s to hit and get more cost efficient with larger units, Purestrains gain an additional attack when in units 10 or more). Vehicles also play a much greater role than they did in 7th, as they offer relatively durable units to hold down the board and enable ambushes with. Plus, vehicles can now charge and fight like infantry or monsters so they are good for soaking overwatch on behalf of fragile assault troops.

 BBAP wrote:

- I want to play Tyranids. I like monsters, and I want to have monsters in my army, but last Edition having Nids as Allies was kinda inefficient - 500pts for 2 Flyrants meant losing 30-50 Hybrids, and that just wasn't happening. Also the Shadow messed with Summons and that sucked. Are Nid allies more viable now?

They are viable allies, though it has generally been more popular to use GSC to support Tyranids rather than the other way around. The main issue for GSC with Tyranid allies is that a lot of Tyranid units like to deploy from reserve as well, so they tend to cut into ambush slots unless running an attrition oriented list (swarms, monster mash). That said, Tyranids are one of the most flexible armies in the game as far as list archetypes go. They provide a very wide toolbox to draw from if you find a particular gap that you need covered.

Shadow in the Warp was changed to only impact enemy psykers and only non-Tyranid ones at that, so GSC isn't affected by it. Granted, the Daemonology discipline as a whole is gone now (summoning currently exists as a special rule on Chaos characters) so that perhaps isn't as impactful as it used to be.

 BBAP wrote:

- What precisely is the deal with Astroglide Guard allies? Are they worth taking?

Astra Militarum are currently one of the strongest armies in the game (albeit mostly as allies rather than a stand-alone) which makes having access to them a huge benefit. As far as whether they are worthwhile or not, they pair fairly well with GSC both from a saturation perspective (most units have comparable stats) as well as providing a solid gunline to enable ambushing. GSC in turn provides mobility and melee capabilities that traditional AM lacks. Also the AM have command point recovery tools in the form of a generic warlord trait and relic, both of which are helpful for enabling the two GSC stratagems (though this comes at the cost of the GSC relic banner from Chapter Approved since GSC does not yet have the stratagem that enables extra relics.)

 BBAP wrote:

Can you bring them alongside Nids for a Nid soup army?

Yes, though it is hard to find points to bring all three at once.

Strat_N8 - I think I was talking to you in the other thread too. Thanks for the replies, brah.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Vehicles also play a much greater role than they did in 7th, as they offer relatively durable units to hold down the board and enable ambushes with. Plus, vehicles can now charge and fight like infantry or monsters so they are good for soaking overwatch on behalf of fragile assault troops.

This last part I like. IIRC I often lost more dude to Overwatch than I did in CC, so the fact I can send in a Goliath to eat bolters is fantastic. In all honesty the fact vehicles are useful now is a good thing - the GSC vehicle models are awesome and I always wanted to field them, but they just sucked so hard in 7th it was never worth it. Also I have an excuse to convert up a Cult Limousine, which is nice.

Still not sure I like the new tactical iteration of RttS though. Getting up the board quickly is great, but one of the army's biggest strengths in 7th was the fact they could get back down the board quickly too. I guess it was a little cheesy being able to teleport around willy nilly, but it's still a little disheartening that one of the army's big strengths has been nerfed so hard. I really need to put a list together and maybe get a tester game in before I start whining about it though.

Tyranids are one of the most flexible armies in the game as far as list archetypes go. They provide a very wide toolbox to draw from if you find a particular gap that you need covered.

I played a game against Nids the other day and have since bought the Codex - I can see what you mean, both about the toolbox and the potential for arriving from reserves. IIRC the most common combination in 7th was to have tough Nid units to camp on the table and eat shots while your Ambushers came and went. Is that still the best way to do Nid allies? Or do the improvements in GSC vehicles make stuff like Mawlocs and Mucolids more viable?

The Summoning thing - I meant Psychic Summons, the Broodmind version. Dropping a full blob of Neophytes with Seismic Cannons and Webbers on people every Psychic Phase was awesome, and I think added to the army's board presence and resilience (at least it did until people realised the Neophytes sucked and stopped shooting at them), and being able to throw a full unit of buff Whip-Morphs at a First Curse was handy too. It was also stupidly OP and I'm fine with it being removed, in all honesty.

The AM ally dynamic doesn't seem to have changed much from 7th, so if I can get my head around the new GSC playstyle I might give that a go too. The ComPoint recovery tools seem worth a look, if nothing else. Is losing the GSC relic a big deal?

How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?

 godardc wrote:
How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?

I'm afraid so. Gamewise we are pretty much waiting on the codex to (hopefully) be competitive again. Until then GSC can be somewhat useful as allies for armies that are mainly AM and/or Tyranids.

Mellon wrote:

 godardc wrote:
How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?

I'm afraid so. Gamewise we are pretty much waiting on the codex to (hopefully) be competitive again. Until then GSC can be somewhat useful as allies for armies that are mainly AM and/or Tyranids.

I'm sorry to say though that I don't see the point of taking GSC allies for my Nids. I just don't see what they can do any better than what Nids already have. The models are beautiful, but that's really all they have doing for them for Nids. I can't speak for how much GSC might help as allies for AM, as I don't play them, but AM is already so strong I don't see the point there either - again, except for models.

Ok then, I'll wait and if I buy some before the Codex, I'll play them in Necro. Thanks !

 TonyH122 wrote:

Mellon wrote:

 godardc wrote:
How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?

I'm afraid so. Gamewise we are pretty much waiting on the codex to (hopefully) be competitive again. Until then GSC can be somewhat useful as allies for armies that are mainly AM and/or Tyranids.

I'm sorry to say though that I don't see the point of taking GSC allies for my Nids. I just don't see what they can do any better than what Nids already have. The models are beautiful, but that's really all they have doing for them for Nids. I can't speak for how much GSC might help as allies for AM, as I don't play them, but AM is already so strong I don't see the point there either - again, except for models.

Agree wholly but there are 2 niche options GSC can bring that can be effective: Magus and Ambush

GSC currently have very good spells. Their mind control spell activates on a 6 and can target any unit as opposed to only characters. Might from beyond can make a GSC purstrain or acolyte blob downright terrifying and, potentially most significantly, mass hypnosis with -1 to hit, no overwatch, and always strike last on a castign value of 7 or 8.

The main advantage for ambush is twofold. First it means you don't need to spend 160-200 points on a trygon or tyrannocyte nor cp for stratagems. Attach a 76 point primus who is respectable in combat himself and a very good force multiplyer with +1 to hit and you get better ambush rolls. The second is the rolls themselves. on a 5+ (4+ with primus) you can either immediately move d6 and still charge or have a full movement phase for the ambushing unit. This gives a 1/2 chance of being closer then 9 inches during the charge phase and with a 1cp strategem in chapter approved it becomes almost guarenteed by rolling 3 ambush dice.

That beign said they are best used competitvely as a small auxiliary to either AM or nids if at all.

Hi Guys

I've foolishly signed up for a 500 pt Icebreaker tournament this Sunday with my GSC (which I've been collecting since Xmas but have yet to play).

What's a good list for GSC at this level?

I have everything from DW:Overkill plus;

~20 purestrains
8 more aberrants (goliath kitbashes)

+chimeras & a Leman Russ from AM.

Currently looking at;

Magus
Primus

2 x Neophyte squads with grenade launcher and Mortar team

4 x aberrants
8 x Purestrains

for 499 points.

Viable? expectation is to build a firebase with the magus and 2 x neophytes and then cult ambush the primus, purestrains and aberrants.

Thanks

 BBAP wrote:

I played a game against Nids the other day and have since bought the Codex - I can see what you mean, both about the toolbox and the potential for arriving from reserves. IIRC the most common combination in 7th was to have tough Nid units to camp on the table and eat shots while your Ambushers came and went. Is that still the best way to do Nid allies? Or do the improvements in GSC vehicles make stuff like Mawlocs and Mucolids more viable?

In general the main thing GSC looks for from their allies is something to hold down the table to enable ambushers and be your anvil. Mawlocs are actually fairly good for this since they can start on the table to enable an ambush slot and use their Burrow ability to leave the table themselves.

Mucolids were moved to Fast Attack so they don't fill minimum requirements anymore, but they can be created by Sporocysts every turn now rather than once per game and don't cost reinforcement points to spawn. Both they and Spore Mines are good for mortal wounds and board control, but are best gotten for free since they are fairly expensive in points.

 BBAP wrote:

The Summoning thing - I meant Psychic Summons, the Broodmind version. Dropping a full blob of Neophytes with Seismic Cannons and Webbers on people every Psychic Phase was awesome, and I think added to the army's board presence and resilience (at least it did until people realized the Neophytes sucked and stopped shooting at them), and being able to throw a full unit of buff Whip-Morphs at a First Curse was handy too. It was also stupidly OP and I'm fine with it being removed, in all honesty.

Ah, my mistake. Most summoning abilities were nerfed in matched play as they require setting aside points for the resulting units now rather than creating the unit for free. There is still an element of utility from such abilities in that they allow the army to be customized on a per-battle basis, but it does have the drawback of points off the table makes one more vulnerable to alpha strikes.

I think the Psychic Summons will probably come back as a stratagem with a new power replacing it on the Broodmind discipline. Tyranids have a couple stratagems that create new units in a similar fashion but need reinforcement points to function.

 BBAP wrote:

Is losing the GSC relic a big deal?

It depends on your list more than anything. The relic grants a +1 strength bubble to an Iconward which is mainly a boon for the Rending Claw equipped models (especially Purestrains) as it lowers the threshold needed to score non-rend wounds. Also it can be combined with Might From Beyond to allow a unit to hit S6 base, at which point they can reliably threaten lighter vehicles before taking any special weapons into account.

godardc wrote:How is the GSC today ? A bit weak (game wise) and expensive to collect ?

They are somewhat weak for tournament play but are able to give most armies a good fight in pick-up games (especially given that they are an index army).

The Christmas battleforce box helped a bit in regards to the expense to collect the army, but the army still lacks a proper start collecting box and getting special weapons for units requires multiple infantry boxes which adds up quickly. Still, with the current rate of releases I expect to see the Codex in June at the latest and there will probably be a Start Collecting box released alongside it.

TonyH122 wrote:
I'm sorry to say though that I don't see the point of taking GSC allies for my Nids. I just don't see what they can do any better than what Nids already have.

As someone who plays both, GSC melee is actually quite a bit better than Tyranid melee. Most Tyranid assault units (bar Tyrants, Warriors, and Genestealers) are stuck with WS: 4+ while most GSC assault units have WS: 3+ that can be boosted to a 2+ fairly trivially. The second factor is that GSC has ready access to Sx2 weaponry on infantry chassis along with in-faction strength buffs for dealing with high toughness models, wereas almost all Tyranid melee infantry are capped at S4. Monstrous creatures can provide similar armor cracking capabilities, but for the most part they don't have the accuracy that GSC models have and suffer from low speed or high cost to deliver them safely.

CommissarCuddles wrote:Hi Guys

I've foolishly signed up for a 500 pt Icebreaker tournament this Sunday with my GSC (which I've been collecting since Xmas but have yet to play).

What's a good list for GSC at this level?

I have everything from DW:Overkill plus;

~20 purestrains
8 more aberrants (goliath kitbashes)

+chimeras & a Leman Russ from AM.

Currently looking at;

Magus
Primus

2 x Neophyte squads with grenade launcher and Mortar team

4 x aberrants
8 x Purestrains

for 499 points.

Viable? expectation is to build a firebase with the magus and 2 x neophytes and then cult ambush the primus, purestrains and aberrants.

Thanks

For 500 points you might be better served with a unit or two of Acolytes with weapons instead of the Aberrants and Purestrain mix. While both specialists are good at what they do, at 500 points it is very easy to build skew lists that are designed to overload an opponent's ability to deal with a given target type. While Acolytes aren't quite as good at armor cracking or horde removal as the more specialized elites, they can do both roles which will get you a bit more flexibility and insurance against overload lists. Plus, they are troops so you could upgrade to a battalion for more command points.

Now that the FAQ is available, what will change for us?

And with the Beta rules, we now have a very interesting niche as GSC is now the only army that can deploy deepstrikers all over the table in turn 1. I'm really curious to see what that changes.

Link to FAQ: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_The_Big_FAQ_1_2018_en.pdf

Yeah! We got our niche as the ambush army back! That should give us a really strong advantage as most armies might cut back on screening bubbles now they don’t have to worry about the T1 charge as much

My initial thoughts:

1. The restriction on turn 1 deepstrikes and exception for Cult Ambush is fairly nice as far as allowing us to do something no one else really can. The one part I am unsure about though is the additional requirement that half your army's power level start on the table in addition to half its units. Most of the ambushing melee units are fairly expensive in power while the standard on-table units (vehicles, Neophytes) are comparatively cheaper. To ambush with a 10-man Acolyte squad for instance requires either 20 Neophytes (1 squad of 20 or 2 squads of 10), 5 Scout Sentinels, 2 transport vehicles, or a Leman Russ tank to enable. Genestealers and Neophytes are the cheapest infantry in power level, so they might end up being the main Ambusher units while Acolytes and Aberrants settle for riding to war.

2. The Index: Xenos 2 FAQ added another line to Cult Ambush that allows units unable to be deployed to go back into ambush to be rolled again next turn. Nice little buff in the event of a 1 or 2 roll against someone hugging their table edge.

3. The Tyranid FAQ clarified that Paroxysm shuts down the Counter Attack stratagem. Paroxysm's "must fight after all eligible units have done so" is shared with Mass Hypnosis, so presumably the FAQ applies there as well. Nice little bit of insurance against opponents with mass attacks that you can't afford to have interrupt.

4. Some of the clarification's charging into ruins might hurt us a bit. Now if there is no space to place at least one model in base to base (no more "wobbly model") the charge fails. Conversely, ambushing Neophytes love this change since it is fairly easy for them to crowd out a level and then be immune to assaults for the rest of the game.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
My initial thoughts:

1. The restriction on turn 1 deepstrikes and exception for Cult Ambush is fairly nice as far as allowing us to do something no one else really can. The one part I am unsure about though is the additional requirement that half your army's power level start on the table in addition to half its units. Most of the ambushing melee units are fairly expensive in power while the standard on-table units (vehicles, Neophytes) are comparatively cheaper. To ambush with a 10-man Acolyte squad for instance requires either 20 Neophytes (1 squad of 20 or 2 squads of 10), 5 Scout Sentinels, 2 transport vehicles, or a Leman Russ tank to enable. Genestealers and Neophytes are the cheapest infantry in power level, so they might end up being the main Ambusher units while Acolytes and Aberrants settle for riding to war.

Can we simply run 11 man Neophyte squads to bump the Power Level of that unit to 10 rather than 5? If so then 11 man units mounted in a Chimera are 15 PL which is one shy of the 16PL to match a maxed out ambushing Genestealer Squad. The 11 man Neophyte squad plus Chimera perfectly matches a 15 man Acolyte Squad in ambush. It lessens the utility of a Goliath Truck since it can only take up to 10 infantry sadly. Similarily, if this is true then a 6 man Acolyte squad mounted in a Rockgrinder (total 16 PL) may be another great 'anchor' unit to start on the table to enable other ambushing units.

Caspian89 wrote:

Can we simply run 11 man Neophyte squads to bump the Power Level of that unit to 10 rather than 5? If so then 11 man units mounted in a Chimera are 15 PL which is one shy of the 16PL to match a maxed out ambushing Genestealer Squad. The 11 man Neophyte squad plus Chimera perfectly matches a 15 man Acolyte Squad in ambush. It lessens the utility of a Goliath Truck since it can only take up to 10 infantry sadly. Similarily, if this is true then a 6 man Acolyte squad mounted in a Rockgrinder (total 16 PL) may be another great 'anchor' unit to start on the table to enable other ambushing units.

I hadn't thought of that. That should work nicely actually. Goliath Trucks could still do the PL shenanigans with weapon team Neophytes (combined team counts as 1 model, so 9 Neophytes + weapon team + Goliath = 15 PL) and Demolition Charge Acolytes (10 Acolytes + Goliath = 15 PL). Rockgrinders with 6 Aberrants might be another option, as that is 20 PL for little over 250 points (assuming Hammers of course).

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Goliath Trucks could still do the PL shenanigans with weapon team Neophytes (combined team counts as 1 model, so 9 Neophytes + weapon team + Goliath = 15 PL) and Demolition Charge Acolytes (10 Acolytes + Goliath = 15 PL). Rockgrinders with 6 Aberrants might be another option, as that is 20 PL for little over 250 points (assuming Hammers of course).

The Goliath/Neophyte trick will work for now because the wording on the Goliath Transport rule is different from the normal ones I see in the Astra Militarum codex. There it always states that Heavy Weapons teams count as two models for filling out transport capacity. I suspect this is an oversight that will be changed in our Codex. For now we could play with the rule as written but I don't think it is as intended.

I'll play the rule as I believe it is intended. Can anyone think of a good reason to the contrary? Best reason I can manage is the introduction of Power Level as a way to decide reserves is a beta rule that seems a little half-baked and therefore using a half-baked Index rule is fair game.

Hey awesome people of the filthy xenos cults, my friend is thinking of getting into your horrific, back stabbing shenanigans and I want to give him a fun, 1000pt game to introduce him into this heretical, scum filled coven.
You all know how this admittedly awesome army works, so I was wandering if you guys could take a look a the list we came up with and what I'll be facing him with and let me know how to make it fairer for a good experience.
I'll be playing Blood Angels allied to Death Korps (for our sweet fluff we loosely came up with) but won't be using Stratagems so he doesn't feel the pain of being an Index as much.


—MY ARMY—



—HIS LIST—



Thanks guys

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey awesome people of the filthy xenos cults, my friend is thinking of getting into your horrific, back stabbing shenanigans and I want to give him a fun, 1000pt game to introduce him into this heretical, scum filled coven.
You all know how this admittedly awesome army works, so I was wandering if you guys could take a look a the list we came up with and what I'll be facing him with and let me know how to make it fairer for a good experience.
I'll be playing Blood Angels allied to Death Korps (for our sweet fluff we loosely came up with) but won't be using Stratagems so he doesn't feel the pain of being an Index as much.


—MY ARMY—

Spoiler:

[Battalion]

HQ
- Marshal officer
- Tank Commander in an exterminator w/ hull las cannon
TROOP
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher
- 10x infantry w/ grenade launcher

[Vanguard]

HQ
- Captain w/ duel lightning claws and jump pack
ELITE
- Sanguinary Ancient w/ sword and Angelis boltgun
- 4x Sanguinary Guard w/ 4x swords and boltguns
- 10x Vanguard w/ 4x shields, 5x power swords, all w/ chainswords, serg w/ duel inferno pistols, jump packs

—HIS LIST—

Spoiler:

[Battalion]

HQ
- Patriarch
- Magus
TROOP
- 5x acolytes w/ 2x rock saws, leader w/ bonesword and whip
- 10x neophytes w/ 1x grenade launcher, 1x seismic cannon
- 10x neophytes w/ 1x grenade launcher, 1x seismic cannon
ELITES
- 18x Genestealers
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Leman Russ battle tank w/ sponson and hull mounted heavy bolters
TRANSPORT
- Goliath Truck

Thanks guys

Unless he's planning to ambush those neophytes, and based on his list I highly doubt that he is, he should probably swap out the seismic cannons for a weapons team. aside from heavy stubbers the single man heavy weapons have short range and all of them have piss poor accuracy when footslogging. they work best when a big blob ambushes well within range and hammers geq with the alpha strike.

As for strategems, do you have chapter approved? While GSC do have few strategems they got a very good one in chapter approved for modifying ambush rolls that almost guarentee a favourable roll if the unit has a primus attached and makes the army much more fun to play. Personally i'd replace the patriarch with a primus, maybe take a couple genestealers out of the blob (15-16) and make the acolyte squad a bit stronger with the extra points but that is just me. The GS death star just feels too risky in low point games as a bad ambush roll means lots of dead genestealers before they get to charge, which the primus and the strategem helps mitigate significantly. The army hits like a truck but if they do not cripple whatever they attacked before retaliation the casualties will be high.

Given the changes to the 50% units and 50% Power Level for ambushing this is the list that seemed to generate itself for me. Brigade!

What are the weaknesses here?

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [133 PL, 1990pts] ++


The Acolyte squads and Abberants mount up in Rockgrinders and rush where needed. The one Neophyte Squad with Heavy Bolter and the Sentinels sit back and camp on objectives. The other three can pop up anywhere on the board to grab objectives. Or they can come in with the Primus and hopefully for a 5 and get the double shot off at an appropriate target. 2 Primus come in with the Stealer squads. The Iconward goes where needed.

I can reduce a bunch of upgrades, drop the Iconward and add two more Lascannon Sentinels for saturation.

Caspian89 wrote:
The Acolyte squads and Abberants mount up in Rockgrinders and rush where needed.

This is what I was thinking too, given the discussion in the thread post-FAQ - 5 Aberrants in a Rockgrinder (Incinerator) with an Iconward seems like a nasty little blunt instrument to hit people with while the Ambush scalpel gets to work. Two of those blobs would run you 608pts and put 6 units on the table with 46PL between them (assuming I've done all my calcs properly). I was thinking about adding a Cache to the Grinder initially, but it seems like a waste - once the Aberrants are out I doubt anything will be getting back in, unless the Iconward needs to run away or something.

I like the look of it, and really want to use GSC vehicles, but I'm a little worried about flexibility and utility - these blobs only do one thing, mongle forward and charge, and while (on paper) it seems like they'd do these things well they're still one dimensional and unsubtle.


Alternatively, I was thinking of going wide rather than tall with my PL shenanigans. Maybe building a semi-mobile firebase out of AM or Neophyte squads, stuffing the PL somehow, and running a few big Acolyte squads as my Ambush contingent.

I’m toying with the idea of using a guard leman russ spearhead (3 barebones russes and a company commander) for my anchor.

The tanks provide staying power and high levels of threat and have obsec because they’re in a spearhead.

My plan is to use them more aggressively than usual, pushing objectives. If they get charged I ambush in purestrains, acolytes or aberrants to get an overwatch-free charge and counter attack.