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Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:




I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


Oh I agree, I was just going for a little example. The Nihilakh strat is also interesting for the potential 2++ sv on Wraith.


Yea I thought of that too, advance and charge a unit on an objective, pop the strat, laugh maniacally. That unit will gobble your CP's though since you'll reanimate them if they live through the smites.

   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

Yeah, always deploy DDAs sideways on along the board edge. Mine almost never died in the index and the new QS strat is super good.

Lord doesn't help DDAs, not sure if you were suggesting that.
   
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Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.


I play with and against those armies, your giving them too much credit. Hell blasters are OK, it's in DA that they shine and they are using Az, a Banner, Lieutenant, Dark shroud and CP's so again, not even remotely a fair comparison. A DDA is comparable to a predator annihilator, it's random shots are mitigated as soon as you take more then 1. Only it's basically imune to the return AT thanks to QS. Plasma is a good counter, but they are not going to be getting into good range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Yeah, always deploy DDAs sideways on along the board edge. Mine almost never died in the index and the new QS strat is super good.

Lord doesn't help DDAs, not sure if you were suggesting that.


A Your right. I hate playing several armies when they decide to make identical abilities only they effect different types of units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In that Case take a cloak cryptek and slap a wrench on the hurt arch and QS strat another if needed. I still rate that castle. It's a crazy solution to AT and at the same time throws out 60 gauss flayer shots when you need it in your half.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:50:44


   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

Made the same mistake myself.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

Any thoughts on a Mephrit D. Lord with the Voltaic Staff and the Mephrit Warlord trait? Seems like a nice fit for a Destroyer Cult HQ. 6" Shorter range Gauss Cannon basically that can snipe characters and put out the occasional Mortal Wound.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




 Red Corsair wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.


I play with and against those armies, your giving them too much credit. Hell blasters are OK, it's in DA that they shine and they are using Az, a Banner, Lieutenant, Dark shroud and CP's so again, not even remotely a fair comparison. A DDA is comparable to a predator annihilator, it's random shots are mitigated as soon as you take more then 1. Only it's basically imune to the return AT thanks to QS. Plasma is a good counter, but they are not going to be getting into good range.


Nobody is bringing Predator Annihilators, though. DDArks are good, but I don't know if Nihilakh DDArks are good enough to bring a whole detachment around. Either you have to bring 3 + a semi-wasted HQ (which imo is too many, though some people love 3 Arks), or two in a Patrol (but you don't want to do that since it gives no CP).

I say semi-wasted HQ since none of ours affect vehicles, and the Auras for a Nihilak HQ won't affect any other Dynasty. So I guess you could bring a Cloaktek to repair the Arks or stick Szeras in there since he's Dynasty-less, but otherwise they're not doing much for your list. I guess you could just take a CCB, since it's an alright beatstick even without using Wave of Command.
   
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The more I look at it, I think the DDA is pretty amazing actually. Just take 2 to mitigate the randomness. 2 is close to the price of 7 HD, so your rocking the same shots only your way more durable and you get the Gauss flayers which I think cannot be ignored. Your basically getting 10 free warriors on a M14" platform when you want the small arms.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.


I play with and against those armies, your giving them too much credit. Hell blasters are OK, it's in DA that they shine and they are using Az, a Banner, Lieutenant, Dark shroud and CP's so again, not even remotely a fair comparison. A DDA is comparable to a predator annihilator, it's random shots are mitigated as soon as you take more then 1. Only it's basically imune to the return AT thanks to QS. Plasma is a good counter, but they are not going to be getting into good range.


Nobody is bringing Predator Annihilators, though. DDArks are good, but I don't know if Nihilakh DDArks are good enough to bring a whole detachment around. Either you have to bring 3 + a semi-wasted HQ (which imo is too many, though some people love 3 Arks), or two in a Patrol (but you don't want to do that since it gives no CP).

I say semi-wasted HQ since none of ours affect vehicles, and the Auras for a Nihilak HQ won't affect any other Dynasty. So I guess you could bring a Cloaktek to repair the Arks or stick Szeras in there since he's Dynasty-less, but otherwise they're not doing much for your list. I guess you could just take a CCB, since it's an alright beatstick even without using Wave of Command.


Cloaktek plus the QS strat makes them a target nobody will bother with more then once. People only stopped taking annihilators because they lack and durability to other AT. If you go first they are amazing, go second and you lose them. It's crazy how much more durable a DDA is then a predator. 3 more wounds, regens and ignores most AT damage you are concerned with, plus it range bands the 2 damage weapons that would hurt it. You also have a strat to keep firing on full power in a pinch.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 16:58:13


   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 necrontyrOG wrote:
Any thoughts on a Mephrit D. Lord with the Voltaic Staff and the Mephrit Warlord trait? Seems like a nice fit for a Destroyer Cult HQ. 6" Shorter range Gauss Cannon basically that can snipe characters and put out the occasional Mortal Wound.


I think in a destroyer cult theme list that's going to be a good setup for either a destroyer Lord or a cloak Cryptek, yes.

Speaking of which, assuming 2000 point destroyer cult list, what's a good ratio of regular to heavies? I can see an issue of wanting to balance between smaller units for command point purposes and larger units for reanimation and extermination protocols.
   
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Yes, I love the DDA. I'm trying to sort out when it makes sense to deploy them aggressively, and maybe even move them forwards turn 1, vs way back. I feel like they really shine when you can also leverage the flayers, since they shoot like 120 points of Warriors and even the low power gun is a steal for 70 points, but of course that's hard to justify if there's some big juicy tank to shoot at or lots of mid-range 2 damage weaponry around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 17:00:21


 
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot



UK, Midlands

Dionysodorus wrote:
Yes, I love the DDA. I'm trying to sort out when it makes sense to deploy them aggressively, and maybe even move them forwards turn 1, vs way back. I feel like they really shine when you can also leverage the flayers, since they shoot like 120 points of Warriors and even the low power gun is a steal for 70 points, but of course that's hard to justify if there's some big juicy tank to shoot at or lots of mid-range 2 damage weaponry around.


My first game of 8th was against orks. My opponents face was a picture when, after vaporizing 2 battle wagons, the DDAs jumped forward and started hosing down the boyz with rapid fire.

   
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Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Dionysodorus wrote:
Yes, I love the DDA. I'm trying to sort out when it makes sense to deploy them aggressively, and maybe even move them forwards turn 1, vs way back. I feel like they really shine when you can also leverage the flayers, since they shoot like 120 points of Warriors and even the low power gun is a steal for 70 points, but of course that's hard to justify if there's some big juicy tank to shoot at or lots of mid-range 2 damage weaponry around.


Thats a good point, it makes the ghost arch look that much worse as well. That said, with a 14" move, I'd still back line them to start. Odds are T2 is a good opportunity to start moving them up aggressively. Heck, with fly you can always charge into a target as well and not worry much about next turns fire. Sauhtek might make a better aggressive DDA. If your taking a Stalker you definitely want sautek on the DDA.

   
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Freaky Flayed One




How does the math on Mephrit's 1cp stratagem work out? With it active, a single Carbine Immortal can make a maximum of 12 hits -- 2 base, plus 2 for both being 6's, and then 8 tesla procs -- but is the average any good?

It's 1 CP compared to Sautekh's 2, and I'm wondering which is the more reliable on paper. Sautekh affects more than a single unit so long as they fire on the same target, which is great, but once I see the math on TfA it will finally get out of my head.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 17:18:40


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Drakmord wrote:
How does the math on Mephrit's 1cp stratagem work out? With it active, a single Carbine Immortal can make a maximum of 12 hits -- 2 base, plus 2 for both being 6's, and then 8 tesla procs -- but is the average any good?

It's 1 CP compared to Sautekh's 2, and I'm wondering which is the more reliable on paper.

It's basically the same as re-rolling 1s. 1 in 6 of your hit rolls generate a new hit roll. It's just that it triggers on rolls that themselves generate hits rather than rolls that missed, so it's a bit more feast-or-famine. So it just improves your average output by a factor of 7/6.
   
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Dionysodorus wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
How does the math on Mephrit's 1cp stratagem work out? With it active, a single Carbine Immortal can make a maximum of 12 hits -- 2 base, plus 2 for both being 6's, and then 8 tesla procs -- but is the average any good?

It's 1 CP compared to Sautekh's 2, and I'm wondering which is the more reliable on paper.

It's basically the same as re-rolling 1s. 1 in 6 of your hit rolls generate a new hit roll. It's just that it triggers on rolls that themselves generate hits rather than rolls that missed, so it's a bit more feast-or-famine. So it just improves your average output by a factor of 7/6.


Thank you!
   
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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm




"If your army is led by a Necrons Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following Artefacts of the Aeons to a Necrons character"

I originally read that as the artefact has to go to your warlord. Hope anyone else didn't make that mistake!
   
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Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 Red Corsair wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
Yes, I love the DDA. I'm trying to sort out when it makes sense to deploy them aggressively, and maybe even move them forwards turn 1, vs way back. I feel like they really shine when you can also leverage the flayers, since they shoot like 120 points of Warriors and even the low power gun is a steal for 70 points, but of course that's hard to justify if there's some big juicy tank to shoot at or lots of mid-range 2 damage weaponry around.


Thats a good point, it makes the ghost arch look that much worse as well. That said, with a 14" move, I'd still back line them to start. Odds are T2 is a good opportunity to start moving them up aggressively. Heck, with fly you can always charge into a target as well and not worry much about next turns fire. Sauhtek might make a better aggressive DDA. If your taking a Stalker you definitely want sautek on the DDA.



Well, I guess there is no reason to run heavy destroyers anymore then.
Guess I should buy ghost arks...but god do I hate assembling DDAs and ghost arks

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 18:08:47


Bedouin Dynasty: 9000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4k pts
The Emperor's Finest 3k pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

So, two Vaults and two shards nets you all the powers twice each, using 8 a turn. and with room to stick the two pairs of crap powers into slots where they won't be used (one on each model). I have no idea how to cram that into a list though.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
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Ute nation

Am I reading this right, you can use entropic strike on the nightbringer? So he could roll up and delete Robby G, or get a good chunk out of mortarion/skarbrand/magnus?

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




 Grimgold wrote:
Am I reading this right, you can use entropic strike on the nightbringer? So he could roll up and delete Robby G, or get a good chunk out of mortarion/skarbrand/magnus?


Yes it works on him, but the Start only affects the first Attack, not all of them. So he can take at most 6 wounds out of Guilliman. Though coupled with a Power and his Gaze, it could be more.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Fenris-77 wrote:
So, two Vaults and two shards nets you all the powers twice each, using 8 a turn. and with room to stick the two pairs of crap powers into slots where they won't be used (one on each model). I have no idea how to cram that into a list though.


Well you could do two Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachments for 0 cp but you wont need leadership at least.
If you can fit in one more Heavy and a HQ you could make a spearhead for 1cp...
Alternatively if you leave out the two solo shards and instead buy a third TV then you could run a Super heavy detachment for 3 CP.

If you were looking for a repair crew for your 3TVs you could run a Supreme command detachment with 3x+ (if you're running at least 6 then might as well do SC twice for extra CP and slots) cloak crypteks so they can fly and keep up. Though not sure what you could screen them with other then maybe the Tv's themselves in a akward formation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 18:52:19


I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonnĂ© waghh.  
   
Made in us
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Ute nation

So trying out a basic list, no real gimmicks just solid units:

Spoiler:
HQ
CCB
+Gauss Cannon
+Warscythe
+Resutrection Orb
+Lighting Field

Lord
+Warscythe
+Veil of darkness

Troops
12 x Warriors

10 x Immortals
+Gauss Blasters

12 x warriors

Elites
10 x Lychguard
+Dispersion Shields
+Hyperphase Swords

Fast Attack
6 x Destroyers
+Gauss Cannon

6 x Wraiths
+5 Particle beamers

7 x Scarabs

Heavy Support
3 x Heavy Destroyers
+ Heavy Gauss Cannon


3 different angles of attack, you have the destroyers who hang back and shoot, the scarabs/wraiths who are supported by the Lord with the VoD/Lychguard and Finally the warriors/immortals who advance to mid field to claim objectives and provide fire support. The overlord hangs with the destroyers if I'm worried about them getting assaulted, or goes with the Wraiths to charge up mid field. Lord doesn't need an invul save so long as he is close to the lychguard, and a 4++ on a vehicle with quantum shielding should be good for a chuckle. Pretty dynasty independent, but I'm between mephrit to give the warriors and immortals more punch, or sautekh for hyperlogical strategist and better mobility while shooting.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
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Numberless Necron Warrior




So after combing through the leaks am I correct in seeing there is nothing but a warlord trait that helps against psychic BS? Nothing? That stuff about necron tech to be used against chaos and the warp is just fluff crap?
   
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Freaky Flayed One




Pyrothem wrote:
So after combing through the leaks am I correct in seeing there is nothing but a warlord trait that helps against psychic BS? Nothing? That stuff about necron tech to be used against chaos and the warp is just fluff crap?


Aside from gloom prisms on Spyders and the big FW Canoptek units, that is unfortunately it. Maybe we'll get lucky and GW will do a run of Pariahs with the codex launch in the way they did Bonesingers for Eldar.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





@pyro -

Maybe there might be something in the box set since they mentioned blackstone or something as a material that might be warp resistant etc.

Then again it could just be more lore fluff etc for us and GW ends up giving access to it to AM and therefor the imperium.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 20:21:24


I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonnĂ© waghh.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Bay area, CA

So what about deploying 2x20 warriors and 6 destroyers in DS reserve (-3CP). 3rd unit of 20 warriors is with cryptek (with vail). Turn 1 we teleport 3x20 immune to morale warriors + 6 Destroyers to the opponent face.

So it is 120 S4 AP-1 shots + 18 S6 AP-3 (rerolling hits and wounds).

The rest of army is variable - we can use 3xDDA with Lord or TB or wraith charging forward.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/14 20:27:38


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So what about deploying 2x20 warriors and 6 destroyers in DS reserve (-3CP). 3rd unit of 20 warriors is with cryptek (with vail). Turn 1 we teleport 3x20 immune to morale warriors + 6 Destroyers to the opponent face.

So it is 120 S4 AP-1 shots + 18 S6 AP-3 (rerolling hits and wounds).

The rest of army is variable - we can use 3xDDA with Lord or TB or wraith charging forward.


That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking, except I plan on running a deceiver as well for the tactical flexibility as well as a shard of the Ctan. I am starting to like the idea of the doomsday arks though. Thinking 2 of them and 1 ghost ark and scarabs for long range fire Support, with the ghost ark moving up to help the warriors after they deploy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 20:44:26


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So what about deploying 2x20 warriors and 6 destroyers in DS reserve (-3CP). 3rd unit of 20 warriors is with cryptek (with vail). Turn 1 we teleport 3x20 immune to morale warriors + 6 Destroyers to the opponent face.

So it is 120 S4 AP-1 shots + 18 S6 AP-3 (rerolling hits and wounds).

The rest of army is variable - we can use 3xDDA with Lord or TB or wraith charging forward.


To easy to zone an army like this with scouts and the like. 3 units of scouts and an army setup in denied flank could make you footslog halfway across the map.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





For doomsday ark, would deploying it through deciever or other TP shenanigans count as 'not moving the previous turn' for the purpose of the high powered cannon?

*Ports it in so it can also broadside its flayers at enemy line*


I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.

If only so I could begin the pardonnĂ© waghh.  
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Lothmar wrote:
For doomsday ark, would deploying it through deciever or other TP shenanigans count as 'not moving the previous turn' for the purpose of the high powered cannon?

*Ports it in so it can also broadside its flayers at enemy line*



Any form of Reserve (Nihilakh Deep Strike) counts as having moved. Deceiver does not.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ultimately, Warriors just don't provide that much firepower, nor are they that durable. You've got to remember that this is a meta where you have to be able to handle 100 Guardsmen or Fire Warriors or whatever.

The big issues with trying to drop a million Warriors on someone turn 1:

1) You're only in rapid fire range of their screens. So you don't really get much of an alpha strike. If your squads are all staying in range of 1 HQ, then you're likely also killing yourself out of RF range with the later squads.

2) You're now in range of everything they've got, and their infantry outshoots yours. Warriors only barely outshoot frickin' tactical marines. Guardsmen just crush them.

3) They can take a trash unit and tie up 240 points of Warriors for a turn since you have no way to get them out of CC and still shoot.

I feel like there may be room to drop a single squad of Warriors alongside the Destroyers just to keep people away from them a little better, but you almost certainly want a dude with Veil close by to keep them shooting next turn.
   
 
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