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2018/09/26 08:24:37
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
streetsamurai wrote: Pretty much irrationnal, since it doesn't really affect me, but god do I hope this whole venture bombs badly
Why? If we want the hobby to grow then we need new blood to make it viable. To do this then predominantly recruiting younger gamers makes sense before they commit to other hobbies. With the amazing quality of video games, the draw of social media and a host of other factors there has never been more competition for the time and attention of young people. I think anything that draws in new hobbyists at a younger age can only be a good thing. It’s either that or we allow our past time to wither on the vine.
Agreed - we need new and young people to be interested in the hobby and I for one also hope they will be interested in the stories behind the game. One of the things that GW has always done in my time has been a gateway into the hobby by providing the stores to draw in the younger generation and a place where parents are happy to drop them off to! Whereas games clubs can be intimidating places for someone younger.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Its a much better attempt at attracting younger generations than most I have seen in the past, we need new blood or eventually the hobby will die with us and this combined with the conquest magazines is going the right way about it I think.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/26 13:15:53
2018/09/26 09:33:19
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
Even though its only a small sample there is a very clear and very big spike in recruitement in the 8-13 bracket. That's exactly the market GW are targeting here with these books and its proven that its a very key time for many to get into this kind of hobby. It's the prime market and target for recruitment and is very much what GW should be targeting for getting new blood into the hobby.
It's the death of any hobby or club when the focus from groups and companies becomes existing customers and not new blood As Well. Otherwise you're just riding your old fans until they get bored/old/run out of money/gain families etc... Which means that you can very quickly go form ruling the roost to nothing when two or three of your biggest generations fall out.
I actually really like the idea behind these books and honestly don't understand why anybody would be negative, but hey ho.
One of the biggest appeals I think regarding "the hobby" TM is that it is a social hobby, encourages creativity, requires basic maths and encourages reading.
It is competing in a world where most kids from the age of 3 onwards are stuck to a mobile device and isn't doing too badly.
I think parents see it as a positive as it takes their kids away from games consoles and gets their brains working in a different way.
And anything that encourages kids to read an actual book can't be a bad thing surely?
I don't have kids but if I did I'd be over the moon if they picked one of these books up.
And if this gets the worlds of Warhammer into the mainstream that can only be a good thing down the line.
"Dig in and wait for Winter"
2018/09/26 10:34:17
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
I do wonder at that poll and the age of respondents. Talking about myself here, but what got me in age 11 was Space Crusade and Heroquest.
As examples, here are two (dated) adverts, the Heroquest one complete with Christopher Lee voiceover:
This is what got me started. They had an "adult" gritty feel to them that appealed to 11 year old me. I wasn't drawn in by a shonky comic! This is what GW should doing - a product for 8-10 year olds that can go in Tesco's and that will act as a hook for future games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/26 10:34:42
2018/09/26 10:37:21
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
Even though its only a small sample there is a very clear and very big spike in recruitement in the 8-13 bracket. That's exactly the market GW are targeting here with these books and its proven that its a very key time for many to get into this kind of hobby. It's the prime market and target for recruitment and is very much what GW should be targeting for getting new blood into the hobby.
It's the death of any hobby or club when the focus from groups and companies becomes existing customers and not new blood As Well. Otherwise you're just riding your old fans until they get bored/old/run out of money/gain families etc... Which means that you can very quickly go form ruling the roost to nothing when two or three of your biggest generations fall out.
but my question as before is, do those 8-13 year old kids get into the game by reading about a girl fighting some bullies while servo critters fly around or do they get into the setting by reading about 8 foot tall armored space marines bedecked in skulls followed by the skulls of humans made into servitors decapitating aliens
the teenage edge is part of the appeal of warhammer, especially for kids, taking it out leaves you with a generic scifi mush that they can get anywhere else
I don't see the point in loosing the identity of WH in order to appeal to an age group that got into WH perfectly fine without it having to be watered down
2018/09/26 13:37:53
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
Lets face it these stories are pretty adult gritty compared to the current Space Wolf fluff.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Even though its only a small sample there is a very clear and very big spike in recruitement in the 8-13 bracket. That's exactly the market GW are targeting here with these books and its proven that its a very key time for many to get into this kind of hobby. It's the prime market and target for recruitment and is very much what GW should be targeting for getting new blood into the hobby.
It's the death of any hobby or club when the focus from groups and companies becomes existing customers and not new blood As Well. Otherwise you're just riding your old fans until they get bored/old/run out of money/gain families etc... Which means that you can very quickly go form ruling the roost to nothing when two or three of your biggest generations fall out.
but my question as before is, do those 8-13 year old kids get into the game by reading about a girl fighting some bullies while servo critters fly around or do they get into the setting by reading about 8 foot tall armored space marines bedecked in skulls followed by the skulls of humans made into servitors decapitating aliens
the teenage edge is part of the appeal of warhammer, especially for kids, taking it out leaves you with a generic scifi mush that they can get anywhere else
I don't see the point in loosing the identity of WH in order to appeal to an age group that got into WH perfectly fine without it having to be watered down
Thing is its not that watered down at all, its just age relevant and quite in keeping with the level of interpretation of the game that most kids have. Also yes you are right in the past kids got into it just fine, we also had hero-quest and space crusade and loads of other entry points all age relevant. Furthermore its bad practice to just sit back and wait. Pushes like these new books are a way to release and target markets specifically for expansion of the membership. Doing that is critical if GW wants to ensure that they gain a healthy big expanding population of fans, rather than sort of waiting and hoping for them to get into the game on their own.
I know when I went through school it was in a sort of bubblegap whereby Warhammer was a thing the older kids had done, but which hadn't got a big grip in my generation. Sure some of is tried it out, but it wasn't a big wave of enthusiasm. These gaps are natural and its good that GW is reaching out to ensure that they are patching over them with products like this.
Remember this is only the start of their interaction; the next might be buying some big armoured dudes who can shoot at some big macho wacky orks whilst someone dances around with clown faced mysterious aliens and another person has the face eating Tyranids.The growth into the whole "its super grim dark evil nasty twisted" stuff doesn't happen to all and honestly its not even a vast part of the actual game itself; that's a lore side of things that only some reach into in a big way. For others its just background fluff that gives flavour to the armies they play.
Mr Morden wrote: Lets face it these stories are pretty adult gritty compared to the current Space Wolf fluff.
The burn. But it is actually true.
"Here comes Roboute saving everyone in the GALAXY OH YEAH HUMANITY!" vs "Here you have a girl born in a slave camp that must kill his captors to survive and have a chance of being free"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/26 14:11:41
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2018/09/26 14:51:44
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
Sounds ludicrous when you look at them now but 11 year old me thought so. I do remember a specific "wow that looks so grown up" feeling when seeing those
2018/09/26 15:00:17
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
I’d get some of these for down the line for my son, price is probably too much to get a load.
But if they went cheap in the Works id grab a load for him.
2018/09/26 15:01:41
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
Are you 8-12? If not, your expectations like mine matter not.
I am not 12, but not that far away from that age. The AoS story seemed stupid, there is no way a girl with a sling shot could knock out or kill a grown man, even at point blank range. And I know it because me and my brothers did shot at each other with self made ones using rocks and old ball-barrings, and not one of us died, and we get our far share of head shots. And we are all way stronger then any unfed girl of our age could be.
As part of Irish History Renactment we'd load slings with both traditional (pre-christian) stone and metal bullets (as in a round metal ball) and shoot them at stuff. Using a proper sling (not one of those Y-armed toys Americans use) you can dent armor, crack bone, and put a hole in the side of a house. The range is pretty good too, but the accuracy is hellishly difficult. Release a split second early or too late and the shot goes feet from where you intended.
Slings were famously used as skirmish weapons for centuries from the Indian Subcontinent all the way to North Europe. It may be hard to nail one guy with a single bullet, but if they are all standing in a line and there's 20 of you, you can start breaking bones and penetrating skulls. Just make certain to run when they get into Dart range.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
streetsamurai wrote: Pretty much irrationnal, since it doesn't really affect me, but god do I hope this whole venture bombs badly
Irrational and mean-spirited?
I tried the 40k one and the huge font made me nostalgic, that's a book for kiddies alright!
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2018/09/26 21:54:17
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
but my question as before is, do those 8-13 year old kids get into the game by reading about a girl fighting some bullies while servo critters fly around or do they get into the setting by reading about 8 foot tall armored space marines bedecked in skulls followed by the skulls of humans made into servitors decapitating aliens
the teenage edge is part of the appeal of warhammer, especially for kids, taking it out leaves you with a generic scifi mush that they can get anywhere else
I don't see the point in loosing the identity of WH in order to appeal to an age group that got into WH perfectly fine without it having to be watered down
Here's an idea. Perhaps they've begun to realise that simply ignoring 50% of the population and their purchasing power is a silly move. If the identity of Warhams is (only) aimed at 13 year old boys' edgelord power fantasies, then they're making a silly move. For those of us who have been into it since the beginning, we know that the point of Warhammer (both Fantasy and 40k) has always been an amorphous one, and for a long, long time it didn't take itself too seriously, though it has remained a "boys' club" for many years longer than it should have.
Why aren't they choose your own adventure books? That's my only complaint. Think my intro to this world was the Jackson and Livingstone Fighting Fantasy Novels when I was 6-7 (specifically Sorcery!).
Art seemed so very familiar when I got WFB a few years later.
2018/09/27 01:20:23
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
Karol wrote: I am not 12, but not that far away from that age. The AoS story seemed stupid, there is no way a girl with a sling shot could knock out or kill a grown man, even at point blank range.
Ever heard the story of David and Goliath? Ancients wouldn't invent it and it wouldn't survive retelling through generations of illiterate goat herders if it wasn't plausible to audience (who actually saw slings in action and knew what they are capable of). Sling is literally one of the cheapest, earliest and most common weapons you can find, allow easy energy storage in projectile even if the user isn't that strong, and can actually outrange early bows by a fair margin. It also surprisingly easy to improve even with low tech - making baked clay projectiles makes them uniform and accurate, and any civilization capable of working metal can cast lead projectiles, and these are far more dangerous than stones. Really, if you want a weapon a girl can use to kill an adult sling is one of the few realistic prospects...
2018/09/27 05:32:49
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
ChargerIIC wrote: As part of Irish History Renactment we'd load slings with both traditional (pre-christian) stone and metal bullets (as in a round metal ball) and shoot them at stuff. Using a proper sling (not one of those Y-armed toys Americans use) you can dent armor, crack bone, and put a hole in the side of a house. The range is pretty good too, but the accuracy is hellishly difficult. Release a split second early or too late and the shot goes feet from where you intended.
Slings were famously used as skirmish weapons for centuries from the Indian Subcontinent all the way to North Europe. It may be hard to nail one guy with a single bullet, but if they are all standing in a line and there's 20 of you, you can start breaking bones and penetrating skulls. Just make certain to run when they get into Dart range.
These are some examples of sling bullets used by balearic slingers of the time:
Spoiler:
They often used lead "bullets", pointed and weighted for straighter flight, reportedly able to break shields and kill the guy behind it.
Diodorus of Sicily (I B.C.) had this to say about balearic slingers:
Spoiler:
"Their combat equipment consists of three slings, one in the head, one in the waist and a third in the hand; using this weapon they are capable of throwing projectiles bigger than those thrown by other slingers (1 mina of weight, that's almost a pound and half) and with such a great force that it seems that the projectile has been thrown by a catapult. That is why when attacking cities they are capable of disarming and knocking down the defenders up in the walls and, in open combat, they manage to break an enormous number of shields, helmets and all sorts of breastplates".
As to the books themselves... I really, really don't see what problem people might have with them.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/09/27 05:51:03
2018/09/27 06:34:49
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
I think my biggest issue with Warhammer Adventures can be summed up by comparing the intro tagline from the 40k excerpt to a standard Black Library tagline
Spoiler:
Simplifying the universe and turning the Imperium into the good guys purely in the service of attracting a younger demographic doesn't sit well with me. I got into the game when I walked into Barnes and Noble as a bright eyed middle schooler and saw the first Imperial Guard omnibus on the shelf so the fiction of 40k is very near and dear to my heart.
Iron Warriors 442nd Grand Battalion: 10k points
2018/09/27 08:58:54
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
Even though the Imperium isn't all sunshine and roses they are generally seen as more good than most other factions - and I'd wager the vast majority of players who are not heavily invested in the lore buy into all the Imperium glory and holy Emperor slogens and their divine goodness.
Heck even in Dawn of War they are the good guys in the main campaign, whilst chaos are clearly evil.
Consider it like layers of an onion. On the surface the Imperium is the shining beacon of goodness and glory for the good of mankind against a universe full of monsters and beasts and the depraved powers of chaos. Scratch away a few layers and you can see some of the internal darkness, scratch more and you can see the gothic twist of evil and nasty things that exist within - scratch a few more and the Inquisition will likely be coming for your head!
So the childrens books take a surface layer approach that introduces them to the "onion". Some will never go any further, others will peel back more layers and get more involved!
Put it simply - when you were 8, did you consider the country where you live to be evil?
How about now?
Automatically Appended Next Post: (With the caveat that if you did think your country was evil when you were 8, that really sucks and you've probably had more pressing things to worry about in your life than the target age of some books)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/27 09:50:39
2018/09/27 09:58:37
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
Graphite wrote: Put it simply - when you were 8, did you consider the country where you live to be evil?
It helps to consider something evil when you have a comparision to make. If you live - for example - in a society like North Korea but you never saw South Korea because of closed borders you might not see anything "evil" in your own country. Community needs quite exemplar and intelligent human beings to point out problems in a country without such comparisions (lets call them community leaders, speakers or preachers). Most humans in 40k i believe dont know very much and have quite narrow point of view.
2018/09/27 16:59:49
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2018/11/06 20:15:43
Subject: Re:Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2018/11/06 20:30:41
Subject: Warhammer Adventures - adventure stories for younger readers.
