Switch Theme:

(K)nights of the Long Vigil: Deathwatch 9th Edition Discussion and Tactica  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte



Seattle, WA

It's funny you say that, Niiru. I love to mix and match the arms-militant of the inquisition but it's never competitive. Currently, the only fluffy Inq. list that works well is DW and Storm Troopers (IG)

DW and GK have a lot in common, the most prominent similarity being high points cost, particularly in troops. GK need their Tides of the Warp to be competitive. Sisters don't soup too well, but do so better than GK by a mile.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Vortenger wrote:

DW and GK have a lot in common, the most prominent similarity being high points cost, particularly in troops. GK need their Tides of the Warp to be competitive. Sisters don't soup too well, but do so better than GK by a mile.


I'd take issue with this characterization. GK Strike Marines are on the expensive side at 22ppm, but keep in mind everything they get from that. Master crafted power weapons, a Storm Bolter, innate deep strike, psychic capacity and ObSec.

The comparable Deathwatch veteran is 26 points, has half the damage on their melee weapons, one less attack after the charge, no deep strike and no casts or denys. Non-Terminator GK units are efficient enough without TIdes to be serious contenders for soup, and there are a few character builds that are interesting enough as standalone pieces to be worth looking at. Not having the eye watering melee potential from Convergence is a loss, yes. But that doesn't stop the faction from being serious contenders for the Marine Melee crown. They're *that* killy just on the strength of their datasheets alone.

Likewise with Sisters. 11ppm is a sweet spot for small, relatively durable (2+ in cover aint to be sneezed at as the Skitarii hordes have shown) Infantry for board control, actions, screening or in a pinch throwing down. Similarly, Sacresants make the addition of a pod of Sororitas characters a *very* interesting choice, and that faction has heroes priced to move. Yes, losing Miracle Dice hurts, but there are still a ton of tricks available and the army brings something that Deathwatch sorely struggle with: board presence.

Of the two I really think we're going to see GK showing up in soup across the Imperium umbrella.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/23 15:20:09


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte



Seattle, WA

You take issue that I accuse both DW and GK of having elite points costs?

Bad joke aside, I agree with your points but the question was whether GK or Sisters would play well together with DW specifically. You point out why both other factions have superior troops and what they offer to the Watch, but what does DW bring to the table for either army that they cannot already do better alone? Specific tactics you might utilize or unit synergies between the power-armored factions are what I'd be curious about.

As to characterization, I can only speak from my own gaming experiences. What have your recent Branch Militant battles been like?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/26 04:48:53


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Vortenger wrote:

but what does DW bring to the table for either army that they cannot already do better alone? Specific tactics you might utilize or unit synergies between the power-armored factions are what I'd be curious about.


Durability, disruptive capacity and the best goddamn dreadnoughts in the game. The amount of shenanigans one can pull with combat squadded Kill Teams while delivering highly mobile, forward deploying or repeatedly deep striking obsec bodies (many of them T5 and sitting behind a 2+/4++) supported by spooled up dreads is why Deathwatch is having something of a competitive renaissance at the moment. None of that relies on doctrines, or a (nonexistent) superdoctrine.

GK aggressively trade up, but have very limited means to hold territory. If they don't overkill an opponent, they're in serious trouble. Sisters on the other hand play the long slog attrition game, putting more bodies down than an opponent can wipe out before they get overwhelmed by miracle boosted firepower and close combat killstacks.

For the former, it's about adding the eye watering melee and psychic element to a Deathwatch force. For the latter, it's about adding the mobility and other assorted nonsense to a Sisters force.
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

Ok, so I've taken the plunge and ordered the deathwatch codex. I'm thinking about my first 500 point force.

I plan to get some heavy intercessors in a kill team as my base troop squad, and thinking about a watch master for my HQ. But beyond that I'm not sure what to do with my final 220 points. Something punchy to push enemy off an objective, but I've never been a marine player and don't know what would be best?

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




You have several options. Bladeguard are a staple, but can be somewhat difficult to deliver. At the combat patrol table size though that's largely mitigated.

VanVets are still excellent despite their points drop. 30ppm for Jump Pack, Storm Shield and your choice of power weapon. Simple, mobile, durable, relatively killy.

Finally, and this is my personal pick most of the time, a Proteus Kill Team can easily serve as a melee bully threat if kitted appropriately. Tuck a VanVet and a Black Shield into a squad and you suddenly have some real close combat teeth on a shooty, ObSec unit. Versatile, flexible, just all around great. The VanVet does double duty leading out charges, making it that little bit easier to get the squad stuck in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/16 11:49:10


 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

Right, quick question: we get both the mission tactics ability in the deathwatch codex AND the xenos hunters ability from codex space marines, yes?

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




xerxeskingofking wrote:
Right, quick question: we get both the mission tactics ability in the deathwatch codex AND the xenos hunters ability from codex space marines, yes?


Correct. Xenos Hunters is the Chapter Tactic, Mission Tactics is the superdoctrine you get for running a pure Deathwatch force.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Has anyone found an Indomitus KT they really like? Proteus spam is fun and all but I’d like to field my Gravis stuff.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 LunarSol wrote:
Has anyone found an Indomitus KT they really like? Proteus spam is fun and all but I’d like to field my Gravis stuff.


I'm a bit of a broken record about it, but I do enjoy the 6/4 HI/Eradicator formation. Combat squad it down and you've got a manageable blend of points efficiency, killyness and unwasted shots that does work against tanks but really shines against elite heavy infantry.


Unrelated: It's been a hot minute since I've seen a competitive Deathwatch list that brought me joy, but we finally got one:

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium – Adeptus Astartes – Deathwatch) [104 PL, 7CP, 1,998pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Chapter Selection: Deathwatch

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, -1CP, 115pts]: 4. Optimised Priority (Aura), Jump Pack, Lightning Claw (Pair), Master-Crafted Weapon, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

Librarian [5 PL, -1CP, 90pts]: 1. Premorphic Resonance, 2. Fortified With Contempt, Boltgun, Force sword, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter
. 2. Paragon of their Chapter: Ultramarines: Adept of the Codex

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, -1CP, 140pts]: 5. Recitation of Focus, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), 6. The Ties That Bind (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: A Vigil Unmatched, The Beacon Angelis, Warlord, Wise Orator

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts] . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. Incursor Sergeant

Proteus Kill Team [17 PL, 320pts]: Deathwatch Teleport Homer, Jump Packs
. Black Shield: Astartes Chainsword, Thunder hammer
. Deathwatch Terminator
. . Thunder hammer and Storm shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwatch Terminator
. . Thunder hammer and Storm shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield
. Veteran Biker: Astartes Chainsword
. Watch Sergeant: Heavy thunder hammer

Proteus Kill Team [17 PL, 304pts]: Jump Packs
. Black Shield: 2x Lightning Claw
. Deathwatch Terminator
. . Thunder hammer and Storm shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwatch Terminator
. . Thunder hammer and Storm shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Shotgun
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield
. Veteran Biker: Astartes Chainsword
. Watch Sergeant: Heavy thunder hammer

Proteus Kill Team [17 PL, 304pts]: Jump Packs
. Black Shield: 2x Lightning Claw
. Deathwatch Terminator
. . Thunder hammer and Storm shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwatch Terminator
. . Thunder hammer and Storm shield: Thunder hammer
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Shotgun
. Deathwatch Veteran: Deathwatch Boltgun, Storm shield
. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield
. Veteran Biker: Astartes Chainsword
. Watch Sergeant: Heavy thunder hammer

+ Elites +

Ironclad Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts]: Dreadnought chainfist, 2x Hunter-killer missile, Hurricane bolter, Meltagun

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [7 PL, 180pts]: 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

+ Heavy Support +

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Assault Plasma Incinerator
. 4x Hellblaster: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

Whirlwind [7 PL, 125pts]: Whirlwind castellan launcher

++ Total: [104 PL, 7CP, 1,998pts] ++


You can find the full commentary at Gooonhammer here:

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-the-warp-stirs-pt-2/

TL;DR - Madlad took bricks of old school Kill Teams backed up by support pieces and made it work.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Pretty standard list really. Proteus spam has proved our most competitive choice for a while now. The main difference here is the second half of the list isn't dreadnought spam, which moves the HQ selection into a bit more close combat support than normal.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Heavy use of Proteus teams has been keeping the faction going yes, but almost exclusively in the guise of delivering specialized combat squads alongside suicide Shotgun Vets. This is the first time I can recall seeing the kinds of formations that look like actual Kill Teams.

Terminators, VanVet, Bike, Black Shield and the obligatory Vets in the same unit? Yes fething please.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/23 17:26:37


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Can somebody explain the value of shotgun vets to me? I’m seeing them more and more lately. I get they’re cheap and can dump S5 into people, but it’s not a gigantic volume.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Rivener wrote:
Can somebody explain the value of shotgun vets to me? I’m seeing them more and more lately. I get they’re cheap and can dump S5 into people, but it’s not a gigantic volume.


Cheap Assault type weapons with variable firing modes that can adapt to a variety of targets while also advancing and firing. They’re mostly just one of the preferred loadouts on the mandatory 5-Vet half of a combat squadded Proteus team.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Assault is the big advantage. mobile troops are big in 9th in general. They also benefit from the doctrine AP bonus a lot, where most guns don't have a good way to buff STR.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sterling191 wrote:
Heavy use of Proteus teams has been keeping the faction going yes, but almost exclusively in the guise of delivering specialized combat squads alongside suicide Shotgun Vets. This is the first time I can recall seeing the kinds of formations that look like actual Kill Teams.

Terminators, VanVet, Bike, Black Shield and the obligatory Vets in the same unit? Yes fething please.


Gotcha. I have a team like this I use when I feel like running the Blackstar. I really wish they'd up the capacity on that thing to 15-16 though. Being unable to fit a 10 man KT is just really disappointing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/23 20:54:13


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Ummm...excuse me? Deathwatch Army of Renown incoming?
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





2 pages of rules for the low price of $60!!!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's never going to be worse than the WD "Add Shock Assault and Bolter Discipline abilities, KTHXBYE" update from the end of 8th.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I am still saddened that they added Primaris to deathwatch. Would have been great saying the watch was one thing that happened to obstreperous first born that didn’t like the new regime.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sterling191 wrote:
It's never going to be worse than the WD "Add Shock Assault and Bolter Discipline abilities, KTHXBYE" update from the end of 8th.


Well it's not worse than this, but wow is it entirely bleh.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The new rules seem interesting, really appeal to the kind of lists I think people would like to be able to make, but I think the tax it imposes is too great for what you get. Still, really cool stuff that someone could put a lot of time into and have a really dynamic, if inefficient gameplan.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




That's pretty much where I'm at. If it didnt saddle you with 150-ish points of Specialism taxes *and* preclude you from taking the few efficiently costed fire support units in the Codex it'd be fantastic (Unit by unit BoV every turn for free, plus the ability to effectively triple up on CTs *and* the ludicrous auto-wound strat are all gold) it'd be worth a look.

But that's what you get when you double down on poor design I guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 14:29:43


 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





who has the best recap on the new deathwatch abilities (article or video)?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

I second Bullyboy's comment. I'm interested to see the changes, but not interested enough to just buy the thing!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 bullyboy wrote:
who has the best recap on the new deathwatch abilities (article or video)?


You looking for just the readout on the rules, or more? Goonhammer has a bit up (their usual description lite take on new releases), but I have some disagreements about their interpretations about a few functionalities.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Sterling191 wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
who has the best recap on the new deathwatch abilities (article or video)?


You looking for just the readout on the rules, or more? Goonhammer has a bit up (their usual description lite take on new releases), but I have some disagreements about their interpretations about a few functionalities.


someone posted the 2 pages on FB this afternoon so I got all I need now, thanks!
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: