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Seabass wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Sure, but you'd think people would be at least buzzed about the chance of them being good. Instead it's pretty much all "oooh model included in price and old white dwarfs" being the selling point.
I'm fine with people deciding it's good value, but i still think it's funny that Warhammer Netflix's biggest draw has nothing to do with media.

I don't know how true that is, to be honest. Anecdotally, looking at Valraks feed, the discussion on Auspex Tactics YT channel, and my own group locally, it seems like most people were excited about the animations, but because we know that as a known quantity, the add-ins, the new news as it were, is generating the buzz, but I don't think its the draw to it.

No data to support that, other than my own impressions, but it feels a bit different. Just an opinion.

I suspect that it's also in part because the general consensus back when this was first announced was that the animations were potentially good, but weren't in themselves sufficient content volume to make a subscription worthwhile. So everyone's been waiting to find out what else would be included, and that's where the focus is now as a result.

For my money, the animations are the only part that I find at all interesting. I stopped buying White Dwarf years ago when I realised that I wasn't getting anything out of it. I'd buy the latest issue, flick through it for anything particularly noteworthy, and put it on the shelf with the others. And there are loads of free painting and modeling tutorials available all over the place online. The minis are nice, but not 'must have' nice. So until their animation catalogue fills up significantly, this remains on the 'Not worth paying for' list.

I think models from the animations will happen, but GW might be waiting to see which animations and which characters actually prove popular to cast.

They might have a bunch already ready in development and just paused at the mould production end to see which ones are worth investing into.


IT can be really hard to predict what will and won't be popular. Heck take Goat Sim; a game that is very popular and yet it was a comical tech demo and nothing more when it came out. Now its a full game with merch nad everything.
So sometimes its good to wait and see what really proves popular.



And I'm also all for generic units too. Things you can actually use in game without them having to be a special character with a name and stats and al.

If we do go the route of "you're basically paying xxx amount of money just for a model", I think it's important to bring up that the current vindicare somehow costs $36 dollars.



Also the megaboss is $40 normally, which is more reasonable given his size. The vindicare doesn't get that excuse.

So for $24 (or less) more, you get a cooler pose, a more dynamic base, and then just whatever else Warhammer+ comes with. Which is why I'm glad they didn't just make it something like the store exclusive Cryptek/overlord/stormcast. Those models, while cool, are harder to justify spending more money (imo and also if we ignore the app features). Though, I guess that's what the White Dwarf annual model usually is...

I'm just wondering how long until we get models that aren't simply alternate sculpts.

 jaredb wrote:

 CMLR wrote:
I am extremely surprised with GW right now. In a pleasing way.

Dominion release was smooth as silk and Warhammer+ is not the trainwreck I admittedly wanted it to be.

I at least am very hyped for proper Masterclass videos (who knows, maybe they will bring 'Eavy Metal and Golden Demon personalities at some point).

Still, I will wait a little longer before adding an annual sub to the card. And I do wonder what those "exclusive subscriber offers" really are. I'm not expecting anything juicy, but I wouldn't be upset to get one.

Still, no Duncan to be seen anywhere, but wasn't that girl on one of the Warhammer Quest videos a while ago, with Becca, Peachy and Chris?

She is Louise Sugden, who is a phenomenal hobbiest.

https://instagram.com/savage_ork_guy?utm_medium=copy_link

She is also the artist responsible for the map for The Old World project.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/cartography-in-the-old-worldgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Perfectly willing to accept that the minis are related to some of their animations, but Angels of Death or whatever the Blood Angel animation is called is their headliner. Forget the "Not more Marines!" rhetoric: Characters from that show should have been their first release.

A box that comes with the Termy Captain, the Chaplain, the two other guys, and especially the fleet commander lady, and you'd have my subscription.

the vidicare makes some sense in that it can be slotted easily into an IoM army and thus maximizes demand. and yeah is presumably based off one of the animations. the Orruk, I suspect may just be a mini design they where sitting on and snagged it when they realized they needed SOMETHING for AOS

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I'm just wondering how long until we get models that aren't simply alternate sculpts.

Given that over the last 30 years or so the vast majority of GW's limited edition models have been alternate sculpts, probably a while.That's not really bad thing. People get upset enough when they are unable to access limited release models. When they're something that's actually unique, that can just exacerbate the problem.

Although the Vindicare is only really 'simply an alternate sculpt' if you look solely at the assassin himself. As a complete piece, it's rather unlike anything GW have done before, and 15 years ago when I had more disposable income I would have been all over it.

 Starfarer wrote:
Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.

And a lot don't... so... what, exactly?

My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.

I have a Rooster Teeth subscription. It's not the cheapest thing in the world, and the perks you get aside from their content are pretty sparse. Nevertheless, I can easily get 1 hour plus of new entertaining content from that subscription every single day and I only watch a fraction of their output. I can't imagine what W+ is going to have to justify that cost, especially given so much of what they're offering is available for free everywhere else.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.

My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.

Easy-peasy! They'll simply copyright strike any of those channels doing it for free.

You think GW will copyright bat rep content creators or painters?

Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things

 streetsamurai wrote:
Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things

It merely needs to have a chilling effect on those channels.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.

And a lot don't... so... what, exactly?

My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.

I have a Rooster Teeth subscription. It's not the cheapest thing in the world, and the perks you get aside from their content are pretty sparse. Nevertheless, I can easily get 1 hour plus of new entertaining content from that subscription every single day and I only watch a fraction of their output. I can't imagine what W+ is going to have to justify that cost, especially given so much of what they're offering is available for free everywhere else.

But free model. You get an exclusive model... for free. Model free. Free model. Buy now!

Looking over their Community page, this is a compelling offer for Warhammer fans. There's going to be stuff to watch, there's going to be stuff to read, there's fiction, there's hobby guides, there's watching them play battle reports as an excuse to market their own models directly to you, there's a model at the end of the year (I wonder if you have to pay shipping). It reminds me of getting excited about a magazine in the 90s and getting a yearly description. The hype in a jazzed person's mind is not getting balanced out by the knowledge you can get this stuff from other people for free. I'm not getting it, but I can see how you would.

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things

It merely needs to have a chilling effect on those channels.

Maliciously abusing the copyright system could cost GW money though.
I think TTT for example could afford a half decent lawyer.

 Argive wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things

It merely needs to have a chilling effect on those channels.

Maliciously abusing the copyright system could cost GW money though.
I think TTT for example could afford a half decent lawyer.

I don't think that ever stopped any large company from abusing the system.

Besides, if they copyright enough creators with enough consistency they can make back any money they lost by stealing their ad revenue.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things

It merely needs to have a chilling effect on those channels.

Maliciously abusing the copyright system could cost GW money though.
I think TTT for example could afford a half decent lawyer.

I don't think that ever stopped any large company from abusing the system.

Besides, if they copyright enough creators with enough consistency they can make back any money they lost by stealing their ad revenue.

GW content wont get ad revenue if its in house though.

I certainly would completely drop GW like hot potato if they started going after bat rep creators.

I mean if they want to fortify and consolidate their market share and fan base through adverse action its fine I guess... They do them. But I don't think there's a longevity in that strategy. The content creators and painters are a massive part of the community and great free marketing.

 Argive wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things

It merely needs to have a chilling effect on those channels.

Maliciously abusing the copyright system could cost GW money though.
I think TTT for example could afford a half decent lawyer.

I don't think that ever stopped any large company from abusing the system.

Besides, if they copyright enough creators with enough consistency they can make back any money they lost by stealing their ad revenue.

GW content wont get ad revenue if its in house though.

I certainly would completely drop GW like hot potato if they started going after bat rep creators.

I mean if they want to fortify and consolidate their market share and fan base through adverse action its fine I guess... They do them. But I don't think there's a longevity in that strategy. The content creators and painters are a massive part of the community and great free marketing.

If this whole thing showed us anything, it's that GW seemingly hates free marketing

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If this whole thing showed us anything, it's that GW seemingly hates free marketing

They hate 3rd parties in general, so that tracks for them. It's stupid, but it tracks.

I know people like to think GW is an evil mega-corp, but it won't happen.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I know people like to think GW is an evil mega-corp, but it won't happen.

Those kinds of actions are not contingent on being 'evil'.

And that's even before Hanlon gets involved.

GW won't need to go after third party videos. they can, presumably, afford a higher production standard then useal and even if not they have a trick no one else does, they can canonnize the outcome of a narrative BR. people STILL talk about some of the old WD BRs after all. that said I doubt battlereports are gonna be the reason anyone subscribes

GW's also presumably going to have an edge on painting videos and there's something to be said for learning from a single series that uses a single line of paints etc. to often I'll go to third parties videos and it's some guy who doesn't explain things ("I used a zenithil highlight, no I'm not explaining how that is or how to do it" etc) likewise because so many use differant paints etc it can become a challange. with GW's stuff you know it's one line of paints and where to get it at least (and figuring out direct subsitutions is a lot easier as everyone knows the brand.)

so yeah I think the painting videos will be an atteactant. I imagine I'm just the kinda person who'll benifit from it. I've learned a fair bit from GW's videos, and really about all I can. I'm ready to try more advanced stuff.

Will I subscribe? hard to say just yet. TBH I might wait until after launch anbd see if it has eneugh at launch to be worthwhile.

Just earlier I was thinking GW needs to bring back alternate sculpts for generic characters. Didn’t intend to have to pay $60 for a streaming service to get one of them though.

 zend wrote:
Just earlier I was thinking GW needs to bring back alternate sculpts for generic characters. Didn’t intend to have to pay $60 for a streaming service to get one of them though.

Or just multi-part multi-pose multi-option characters. We know they can do it. They did quite a few of them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.

And a lot don't... so... what, exactly?

My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.

I have a Rooster Teeth subscription. It's not the cheapest thing in the world, and the perks you get aside from their content are pretty sparse. Nevertheless, I can easily get 1 hour plus of new entertaining content from that subscription every single day and I only watch a fraction of their output. I can't imagine what W+ is going to have to justify that cost, especially given so much of what they're offering is available for free everywhere else.

Except they are doing things that haven't been done before. They are producing animated shows well beyond the handful of fan productions that amount to about a movie trailer's length of content.

They are digitizing their printed media. They are offering in depth lore videos direct from the creators.

If the value isn't there for you, so be it. But to act like it's objectively poor value because you like fan versions of some content better isn't a great argument imo.

Funny you mention Rooster Teeth. They ran a Kickstarter and took in over $2M from fans to produce a movie, turned around and sold the company to Fullscreen Media before making the movie, and only then ramped up content in a paid monthly service after they sold the company to said digital media company. Then the company was sold again to an AT&T subsidiary a few years later. They also fired most of the staff that was there in the early days aside from the in screen talent and executive level staff. I know because I worked for a RT partner company for years during that time.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things

That's never stopped them before. We are talking about the company that tried to claim ownership of Roman numerals in court documents after all.

 Starfarer wrote:
Except they are doing things that haven't been done before. They are producing animated shows well beyond the handful of fan productions that amount to about a movie trailer's length of content.

I'm not confident that a few short animations trickled out over Emperor-knows how long is enough to sustain the service. Disney+ got by for a year with almost nothing to show for it based on good will and the promise of lots to come. Warhammer+ ain't Disney+.

 Starfarer wrote:
They are digitizing their printed media.

Their old printed material. That's good from an archival perspective at least, but being able to access old rule books (likely only through the D+ app) is hardly an incentive to pay per month.

 Starfarer wrote:
They are offering in depth lore videos direct from the creators.

Which will offer what, exactly? Are they going to add to, expand or change the lore? Unlikely, so again, other than perhaps higher production values and music that would get a regular YouTuber a copyright strike, what's on offer here?

 Starfarer wrote:
If the value isn't there for you, so be it. But to act like it's objectively poor value because you like fan versions of some content better isn't a great argument imo.

That's a misrepresentation. I'm not disliking it because I like fan versions more. I dislike it because it's GW (once again) attempting to be the hobby, rather than just being part of the hobby.

 Starfarer wrote:
Funny you mention Rooster Teeth. They ran a Kickstarter and took in over $2M from fans to produce a movie, turned around and sold the company to Fullscreen Media before making the movie, and only then ramped up content in a paid monthly service after they sold the company to said digital media company. Then the company was sold again to an AT&T subsidiary a few years later. They also fired most of the staff that was there in the early days aside from the in screen talent and executive level staff. I know because I worked for a RT partner company for years during that time.

Ok then. I didn't actually know about the Kickstarter, TBH. I tend not to interface with the Rooster Teeth fandom (or even the AH fandom) as I find it cloying and incapable of seeing flaws in anything RT/AH does.

The vindicare might be the deciding factor for me. That model looks amazing.

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
The vindicare might be the deciding factor for me. That model looks amazing.

I'd like to know the fluff justification for Vindicares being issued terrain on walking stilts. Doesn't seem like the stealthiest approach but then I'm not a highly trained assassin. From a gameplay perspective it seems like an incredibly awkward model to put where you would usually put a Vindicare i.e high up and well hidden.

I wouldn't in a million years pay for this but I kind of want to see GWs take on battle reports. I'm imagining insane levels of cringe as GW treat battle reports like ads for models rather than entertainment. I can see them taking known underpowered units and trying to hype them by feigning enthusiasm or just straight up fudging match ups or outcomes to make them look better.

 Starfarer wrote:

Except they are doing things that haven't been done before. They are producing animated shows well beyond the handful of fan productions that amount to about a movie trailer's length of content.

They are digitizing their printed media. They are offering in depth lore videos direct from the creators.

If the value isn't there for you, so be it. But to act like it's objectively poor value because you like fan versions of some content better isn't a great argument imo.

well, digital media and an archive of old stuff, was already there before, from GW and for free
GW tried different kinds of getting movies done for 40k, it is not the first time we see animations either, it was just not very good in the past (so usually just 1 DvD per Club)

Master Class painting videos, whatever that means. Their normal videos are not very good so paying to get better ones while other creators make Master Class vidoes for free (with the possibility to pay them afterwards) that are way ahead of the "advertising GW paints" videos

Lore Videos from GW are new, but without knowing how deep they are, not worth paying ahead as there is the chance it is similar ot the "deep" WD lore articles


Overall, GW made a good example of how modern App marketing works
Set a ridiculous price point for low quality product (the initial 40k App), wait a little bit, either add content that was free prior or a discount that is still overpriced, so now people get the impression they are saving a lot and get enough for their money to justify it

a free model is only free if you would have bought it anyway, if you never wanted to buy one of those in the first place, it is not free
the animations are worth a month or 2, depends on how much time you have to watch those (similar like people waited until a season of a new show is done, sub 1 month, watch all in 1 go and leave, seen with Mandalorian, Star Trek, etc.)

so everyone who thought the App was already worth the money are happy to get so much more, for others not so much if the other content is not of interest

and that AoS goes the same way with no e-books any more is a big no for that game as well for me

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'd like to know the fluff justification for Vindicares being issued terrain on walking stilts. Doesn't seem like the stealthiest approach but then I'm not a highly trained assassin. From a gameplay perspective it seems like an incredibly awkward model to put where you would usually put a Vindicare i.e high up and well hidden.

Same justification on that poor Primaris SGT who has to keep lugging the hacked up Ork torso around because he can't get his chainsword out of its neck?