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 frankelee wrote:
Selling out is as much a matter of production as it is demand. I've seen many people online declaring it'll "sell out!" but we have no idea how many they made, and a poor understanding of what the demand is. If they made 1,000,000 copies, then I doubt seriously it'll sell out any time soon. If they made 10,000, yeah it probably will sell out rather quickly.

People have been saying that because damn near every discount box GW has released lately has sold out.

Very mildly disappointed at no pre-order bonus gubbins this time. Still got my Key to Wulfencarn or whatever it’s called somewhere!

They may very well want this to be a permanent product like BSF was. For all that the BSF expansions were like gold dust, part of that demand was because they kept the base game constantly available.

It's not like GW aren't above making something that is essentially a discount box with a game bolted on, but they do also still make games from time to time.

This is a permanent item, they've already confirmed that. So it's pretty much a guarantee there will be proper expansions coming after.

Yep I'd expect a 2 edition life cycle so about 6years. A few expansions scattered over that period of time.

It will be interesting to see if GW treat it like Blackstone and do multiple one-off expansions or if they stick to just the heroes and Nurgle. Cursed City only got 2 expansions for Soulblight models, but there's enough heroes scattered about the releases that likely were originally part of its release and just never got game material made for them.

Personally part of me hopes they do a few things for different factions or wild critters and such.

They've pretty much written it so anybody can get involved. A "not" fountain of youth is an item everyone can fight for. Even Nagash would take offense to such a thing and send various death factions in to destroy it.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They've pretty much written it so anybody can get involved. A "not" fountain of youth is an item everyone can fight for. Even Nagash would take offense to such a thing and send various death factions in to destroy it.

First non-Nurgle choice should be Clan Pestilens though (I mean... sewers, rats, plague...). Then corrupted Sylvaneth or Grots. Or plague zombies raised by a deranged necromancer.

Oh what a wrong-offensive Skavenist cruel-bigoted thing to say-speak!

Think of the poor ratses! Just because we love-adore filthy-muck doesn’t mean mean-equal a way of life-culture!

Nice to see it sold out at one of the highest-volume online retailers in the US! The reviews of the game seem fairly middling, but I'm holding out hope. This is the most excited I've been for a GW release in a dog's age.

I was considering getting this but the price tag is very off putting for a set of minis that barely hold my interest. I’m going to have to find some detailed reviews of the actual gameplay…

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They've pretty much written it so anybody can get involved. A "not" fountain of youth is an item everyone can fight for. Even Nagash would take offense to such a thing and send various death factions in to destroy it.

First non-Nurgle choice should be Clan Pestilens though (I mean... sewers, rats, plague...). Then corrupted Sylvaneth or Grots. Or plague zombies raised by a deranged necromancer.

There are current rumours for a small Clan Eshin update (not a lot to update because they never had much to begin with), and if they're taking the Cursed City model of "Buy these kits to use with this component-only expansion box", then I can see Darkwater being the introduction for them

 Tim the Biovore wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They've pretty much written it so anybody can get involved. A "not" fountain of youth is an item everyone can fight for. Even Nagash would take offense to such a thing and send various death factions in to destroy it.

First non-Nurgle choice should be Clan Pestilens though (I mean... sewers, rats, plague...). Then corrupted Sylvaneth or Grots. Or plague zombies raised by a deranged necromancer.

There are current rumours for a small Clan Eshin update (not a lot to update because they never had much to begin with), and if they're taking the Cursed City model of "Buy these kits to use with this component-only expansion box", then I can see Darkwater being the introduction for them

I'm not sure there's any reason to believe we'll get that kind of expansion again. That was just GW salvaging something from the Cursed City debacle, and it doesn't look like it was even their first choice, just a little opportunism on the side.

The closest to this kind of expansion GW did deliberately is the hero card pack for Silver Tower that let you play a large part of the range of plastic characters available the time. That's not something they've done since, as far as I know. Maybe as White Dwarf content, but not as a standalone release.

I do wonder if the Cursed City expansions really proved worth the time and trouble for GW. It's entirely possible they'll do some for Darkwater, yet it feels very self contained. And the pricing of their models seems to make it difficult for them to put out proper expansions like most dungeon crawlers would have, while the pure card and pamphlet expansions are of course met with a pretty significant lack of interest by the wider Warhammer community.

Would it be easier or more difficult to have to include map books in expansions rather than tiles? Maybe expansion maps will just be paper posters.

Cursed city was an extremely (easy) dull game. Sadly so was Mantics new dungeon saga. We currently keep returning to their original dungeon saga kickstarter, far more fun.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Would it be easier or more difficult to have to include map books in expansions rather than tiles? Maybe expansion maps will just be paper posters.

The tiles are more versatile.

So if an expansion includes two maps, you get two new maps.

If it included two tiles, those could be combined with the original tiles to create dozens of new combinations.

 PenitentJake wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Would it be easier or more difficult to have to include map books in expansions rather than tiles? Maybe expansion maps will just be paper posters.

The tiles are more versatile.

So if an expansion includes two maps, you get two new maps.

If it included two tiles, those could be combined with the original tiles to create dozens of new combinations.

But is it easier for GW manufacturing?

This is the first Warhammer Quest I’m going to pass on. The heroes are uninspired, and the price point is just silly if you live in the US. Not to mention I have no interest in WHQ turning into WHU’s. Most of the Nurgle stuff is cool, but not 250 bucks cool.

Dread Master wrote:
This is the first Warhammer Quest I’m going to pass on. The heroes are uninspired, and the price point is just silly if you live in the US. Not to mention I have no interest in WHQ turning into WHU’s. Most of the Nurgle stuff is cool, but not 250 bucks cool.

Same for me. I bought all previous new WHQ (I LOVE the original 1995 WHQ) AND, honestly, sold them quickly but not this time.
This is surely not a dungeon crawler. Moreover I cannot understand the target of the game (excluding AOS fan of course): game is too simple to catch the attention of board gamers while miniatures are not ready to play, require time and are relatively complicated to build.

While Space Hulk has seen some great new editions and the game remained the same (almost) WHQ never had such a treatment. But it is easy to understand why.

Dread Master wrote:
This is the first Warhammer Quest I’m going to pass on. The heroes are uninspired, and the price point is just silly if you live in the US. Not to mention I have no interest in WHQ turning into WHU’s. Most of the Nurgle stuff is cool, but not 250 bucks cool.

I know the underworlds thing is a take that's been leaned by some reviewers but it's isn't a very accurate description of the game. It's a scenario based combat game where leveling is done by finding loot. A lot of people seem to have played the intro scenarios which are the simplest and the players haven't collected any loot yet. I think the success or failure of the game as a game will depend on the variety and engagement of the scenarios and how much the loot changes the gameplay.

Several reviewers haven't bothered to open the act two and three packs, supposedly to avoid giving us spoilers. I don't want spoilers from movie reviewers but I do expect them to watch more than the first ten minutes of a film.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 PenitentJake wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Would it be easier or more difficult to have to include map books in expansions rather than tiles? Maybe expansion maps will just be paper posters.

The tiles are more versatile.

So if an expansion includes two maps, you get two new maps.

If it included two tiles, those could be combined with the original tiles to create dozens of new combinations.

But is it easier for GW manufacturing?

Do you mean "But is it easier cheaper for GW manufacturing?"

Bit of both.

We know GW like to control their own stock, hence the factory and that. And we know the cardstock stuff is printed overseas.

That involves logistical hurdles. Containers lost at sea, container ships wedging themselves in the Suez Canal etc etc.

Books are a less specialised printing process than die cut cardstock. So you’re choices in where you get can it printed are opened up more.

A stitch bound lay-flat-on-every-spread book is significantly more specialized than some die cut cardboard tho.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
A stitch bound lay-flat-on-every-spread book is significantly more specialized than some die cut cardboard tho.

I'm not going to disagree but it could as well be that this isn't the case; it could come down to the material being printed on. I did see some speculation that it being a book could make it cheaper in terms of tax due to books having various exemptions/breaks (which the UK has at least) compared to the tiles which would be game components and under a different rate. Or it's just something they're trying as the map-book scenario is something of a current trend in board-game design.

Alll to do with the printers available.

The UK’s native print industry is not in good shape. It’s been out competed first by Poland, then by China, on price.

Those that remain either do small runs, or really massive ones. The in-between is pretty much gone.

I’ve honestly no idea if any printshop in the UK can do die cut cardboard any more. I suspect there will be, but it depends on the scale they’re setup for, and of course the price.

For the book? The printing and binding is pretty standard - so it’s just the stitching here that’s particularly specialised.

Game wise there’s also convenience. The book? You can play on a coffee table. With cardboard dungeon tiles? You need to be careful on how big a given layout can be. So there’s an accessibility element.

Certainly not everyone has a dining room or dining table, or the space for one. Coffee table? Far more likely, even in smaller properties.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Alll to do with the printers available.

The UK’s native print industry is not in good shape. It’s been out competed first by Poland, then by China, on price.

Those that remain either do small runs, or really massive ones. The in-between is pretty much gone.

I’ve honestly no idea if any printshop in the UK can do die cut cardboard any more. I suspect there will be, but it depends on the scale they’re setup for, and of course the price.

I assume it's a matter of scale / cost.

These guys appear to be able to do it:
https://www.haymancreative.co.uk/custom-game-board-printing/custom_game_board_printing.php

They're less than 5 miles from GW's factories!

Nice find! Does say short run though.

How is that defined? Buggered if I know!

Crispy78 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Alll to do with the printers available.

The UK’s native print industry is not in good shape. It’s been out competed first by Poland, then by China, on price.

Those that remain either do small runs, or really massive ones. The in-between is pretty much gone.

I’ve honestly no idea if any printshop in the UK can do die cut cardboard any more. I suspect there will be, but it depends on the scale they’re setup for, and of course the price.

I assume it's a matter of scale / cost.

These guys appear to be able to do it:
https://www.haymancreative.co.uk/custom-game-board-printing/custom_game_board_printing.php

They're less than 5 miles from GW's factories!

You can print anything you want in the UK, including punch board and books with lay-flat bindings. You can also do so in any quantity you want. Whether it's the cheapest or most convenient option is a different matter, and is going to depend on an individual companies' needs. I work in the print industry and I really don't know why people are trying to read the tea leaves of the print process to fathom GW's decision making; cost and location are obviously factors in the decisions a company makes about where to print, and the precise specifications of what they do print, but they're always a balance with a host of other factors, including creative decisions. There's no binary of the sort people are imagining whereby GW have decided "If we do tiles, we can't print in the UK, if we do books, we can." It's all trade-offs and compromises between cost, convenience, quantity, matching a very specific format or level of quality, preferred material, number of final delivery locations, onward processes like packing with other components, and a million other things. I think there's a popular image of commercial print as being a bit akin to the local car mechanic sucking the air through his teeth and telling you "Nah, can't get the parts for that anymore, mate…" but it doesn't really work like that.

I don't know why GW chose a book over tiles this time, but I would be very surprised indeed if the primary reason was anything to do with availability of print options.

Great to have input from someone actually in the field. I suppose to those like myself with no direct experience, it seems like printing in China, on the other side of the world and at the mercy of the skyrocketing cost of containerised shipping since COVID and the associated impact on lead times, is not in itself a particularly desirable solution. So it follows that must either be silly-cheap compared to doing it locally or something that isn't available any closer for some reason...

I could fully believe it was just because the designers thought map books are neat. They sorta are in the public eye with some successful map book kickstarters and such.