Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2019/09/03 07:28:23
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Singleton Mosby wrote: What are the thoughts on Mawlocs? I'm gearing up for a 1000 pts tourney in a couple of weeks and am not sure yet if I will swap out one of my Carnifexes for a Mawloc (monster list with OOE).
Most of my experiences with Mawlocs in 8th has been that they are a cheap nuisance for the most part. Their main strength is positional dominance. They are excellent at popping up in inconvenient places to block movement (especially if you can position them to prevent enemies from withdrawing from combat).
That being said, I'm not sure I'd drop a Carnifex for one. The Mawloc has more wounds but the Carnifex has T7 and (presumably) a -1 to hit so they should be roughly equal in durability. The Carnifex has a lot more offensive potential though and taking a Mawloc means one less beneficiary of Old One Eye's aura.
And another question: I am toubting which hivefleet is more suitable for a monster list (no swarmy): either Kraken or Jorm. I like the +1 on the save, but it makes me slower as I won't advance. Kraken is very fast indeed which has its cons. I tend to go for Kraken as it means I'll be shoving my carnifexes into my opponents face quicker (sometimes with Onslaught and the strategem).
Kraken is probably going to be the best for melee or mixed-role Carnifexes, since it lets them withdraw and recharge to get Living Battering Ram up every turn. Shooty Carnifexes are happy enough with Jormungandr, though in personal experience Jormungandr is best run as a more combined arms fleet (it wants a shooting monster component and a tunneling component).
If you are running pure monsters Gorgon might be worth looking at. The relic is nice for a warlord monster (T9 for a Tervigon, T8 for a Hive Tyrant) and the trait gets progressively better the higher your strength is.
2019/09/05 11:05:46
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Mawloc's best trick is first turn board presence so your good stuff can be safe in DS then burrow 1st turn and pop out with other DS stuff 2nd turn. I like using a Malanthrope and 2 big blobs of stealers up front with a pair of Mawlocs. The 2 big beast just scream at the opp to shoot at them and draw lots of fire. They have lots of wounds and with the -1 to be hit are very resilent. Then they burrow and DS turn 2 for some chomping.
2019/09/05 14:41:59
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Hmm. If “any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed”, and a Mawloc uses its Burrow ability, does the fact that it has arrived on the battlefield mean it can hide underground past the third round without getting killed off a cave-in?
I rarely see one survive until the turn after it emerges, but it eats something like a remote Havoc Squad, it’d be nice to tag it into another location...
lindsay40k wrote: Hmm. If “any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed”, and a Mawloc uses its Burrow ability, does the fact that it has arrived on the battlefield mean it can hide underground past the third round without getting killed off a cave-in?
I rarely see one survive until the turn after it emerges, but it eats something like a remote Havoc Squad, it’d be nice to tag it into another location...
All that "Has not arrived by turn 3' jazz is only for models that haven't already been on the field so a Mawloc definitly can burrow turn 3 and come in turn 4 or burrow turn 4 and come in turn 5 as long as time permits.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Emicrania wrote: Is it possible to make a MW battery list with Mawloc, biovores and zoanthrope + Genestealers?
Sure I've had some success with 6 biovores and 2 sporocytes just raining down mines... a very funny moment for me was when I put a pair of mines just in front of a pair of knights at a bottleneck in the terrain during a tournament.... and they couldn't walk over them as they are not infantry models. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Won me the game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/05 14:51:31
2019/09/05 15:33:55
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
lindsay40k wrote: Hmm. If “any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed”, and a Mawloc uses its Burrow ability, does the fact that it has arrived on the battlefield mean it can hide underground past the third round without getting killed off a cave-in?
I rarely see one survive until the turn after it emerges, but it eats something like a remote Havoc Squad, it’d be nice to tag it into another location...
All that "Has not arrived by turn 3' jazz is only for models that haven't already been on the field so a Mawloc definitly can burrow turn 3 and come in turn 4 or burrow turn 4 and come in turn 5 as long as time permits.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Emicrania wrote: Is it possible to make a MW battery list with Mawloc, biovores and zoanthrope + Genestealers?
Sure I've had some success with 6 biovores and 2 sporocytes just raining down mines... a very funny moment for me was when I put a pair of mines just in front of a pair of knights at a bottleneck in the terrain during a tournament.... and they couldn't walk over them as they are not infantry models. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Won me the game.
Interesting, what else did you have in the list?
2019/09/05 21:54:05
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I’ve tried lists with a mawloc, 3 squads of zoanthropes and a Maleceptor to punish castles. It puts out a stupid amount of mortal wounds, but you’ll never pull it off more than once before your opponent learns and spreads their stuff out.
2019/09/06 06:58:06
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Interesting insights lads. Thanks. I will include one Mawloc in my list for the comming tournament and see how it goes.
Timeshadow wrote: Mawloc's best trick is first turn board presence so your good stuff can be safe in DS then burrow 1st turn and pop out with other DS stuff 2nd turn.
Didn't think of this, but that's a very nice way of using him.
lindsay40k wrote: Hmm. If “any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed”, and a Mawloc uses its Burrow ability, does the fact that it has arrived on the battlefield mean it can hide underground past the third round without getting killed off a cave-in?
I rarely see one survive until the turn after it emerges, but it eats something like a remote Havoc Squad, it’d be nice to tag it into another location...
All that "Has not arrived by turn 3' jazz is only for models that haven't already been on the field so a Mawloc definitly can burrow turn 3 and come in turn 4 or burrow turn 4 and come in turn 5 as long as time permits.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Emicrania wrote: Is it possible to make a MW battery list with Mawloc, biovores and zoanthrope + Genestealers?
Sure I've had some success with 6 biovores and 2 sporocytes just raining down mines... a very funny moment for me was when I put a pair of mines just in front of a pair of knights at a bottleneck in the terrain during a tournament.... and they couldn't walk over them as they are not infantry models. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Won me the game.
Interesting, what else did you have in the list?
Actully now that I think about it I am mixing 2 lists together cause the Mawloc list didn't have Biovores but the concept works here is one I knocked together.
2000pts evin
Battalion Kronos:
Nerothrope
Nerothrope
Hive Guard Impailer (6)
Ripper Brood (3) x3 (one brood with spinemaws to use 6 extra pts)
Biovire brood (3) x2
You deploy the Kraken units aggressively with the Mawlocs up front along with the genestealers and Malanthrope.
Keep your Kronos gun blob generally together behind LOS blocking.
First turn advance both Genestealer blobs using strats ect to get them in opp's face if needed use strat to dbl move Malanthrope to keep GS in shroud bubble. Burrow Mawlocs to chomp from below 2nd turn
If you go second the Mawlocs will draw a ton of fire (hopefully protecting your genestealers) and make your opp think too hard. Evin at 1 W a Mawloc is fully effective with it's burrow attack.
My original list dropped the guns and sporocyte for Sup command of Leviathan Flyrants (MRC/2xDiv) with slight tweeks to fill out pts.
2019/09/08 16:09:34
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I have a 1500pt game coming up this Thursday and planning on running 2x30 fleshborer Gaunts and a Tervigon. Just got a quick question about the Tervigon Spawn ability.
Are you able to bring back up to 10 models per fleshborer termagaunt unit or is it that I can bring back 10 Gaunts and I have to choose how they Spawn e.g. I have 2 fleshborer Gaunts units that both lost 8 dudes. Am I able to bring back up to 10 Gaunts in both units or put 5 into one unit and 5 into the other.
Odrankt wrote: I have a 1500pt game coming up this Thursday and planning on running 2x30 fleshborer Gaunts and a Tervigon. Just got a quick question about the Tervigon Spawn ability.
Are you able to bring back up to 10 models per fleshborer termagaunt unit or is it that I can bring back 10 Gaunts and I have to choose how they Spawn e.g. I have 2 fleshborer Gaunts units that both lost 8 dudes. Am I able to bring back up to 10 Gaunts in both units or put 5 into one unit and 5 into the other.
Thanks for the help.
Either spawn one new unit, or recycle ten dead within a single existing unit
You'll be replacing models that die in the one unit.
The best use of Tervigon is replacing Fleshborer body shields for Devourer's in squads. Run like 10 or 15 Devourers per 30 man Termagant and you'll get more mileage than usual.
Making new units costs points so that's generally a bad idea.
2019/09/08 23:25:47
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Making new units costs points so that's generally a bad idea.
Just a hypothetical, but perhaps it might be worthwhile if you are doing a pure 'nidzilla list but still want the option having an emergency screen if you need to roadblock something? If there are enough monsters on the table and no Termagants to replenish or hit with psychic feedback the Tervigon should be lower priority than usual. Maybe put 80 points aside and if the Tervigon dies before dropping the second squad use Endless Swarm as a backup?
At that point the Tervigon is a glorified dedicated transport, but still.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/08 23:44:16
2019/09/09 07:16:55
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Basic idea is that Turn 1 the Tervigon, 30 Gaunts, Trygon, Tyrannocyte and 2 ripper swarms go into reserves. Leaving Give Tyrant, 2 rippers, 2 Broodlords and 20 genestealers on my table hopefully all behind Losb terrain minimalising the damage I'll take.
Turn 2 I will then drop the Tervigon + Cyte and Trygon + Gaunts into my Opponents face while my 20 genestealers are in terrain ready to do charges while not getting overwatched.
Only thing I'm sure about is the Tyrant. Should I give him wings so he can DS as well for Turn 2 safety? It will have chameleonic mutation for -1 to hit.
2nd broodlord is in Leviathan as I plan to make him my warlord and to have it hide in my Deployment with it's 6+++ so it will be hard to get Kingslayer.
Tyranids + GSC placed at two different GT's over the weekend (second and forth), and neither time using any Hive Guard, or anything that could really be considered true AT at all besides some Acolytes with Rock Saws.
I don't like relying on purely deepstrike - especially with more and more 12" DS deny bubbles popping up in armys, Forwarned, and stratagems like Vect for blocking perfect ambush - which is why I'm playing Nids in the first place, for that more reliable ground based play.
But I also don't like relying on Hive Guard either considering how easily some armies counter them too. So I'm currently using a squad of both.
Just wanted to share these results anyway.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 05:03:05
2019/09/10 09:53:57
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Honestly yes, the more I think about it, the more I realize the points spent on hive guard would be far more effective just putting more bodies on the table.
You can get a full squad of stealers and some more gaunts and just flood the board with bodies.
Hive guard really only shine againgst T7 or Heavy infantry reliant armies (custodies/chaos daemon engine lists).
They just don't justify their investment in almost any other case.
JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG
2019/09/11 15:19:04
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Well he’s got psychic shutdown with the Kronos Biovores, a turn 1 delivery system with the Kraken Swarmlord + genestealers, and a solid rock of troops with the Jorm Warriors. Not all that damaging but it covers all your bases and denies all your opponent’s.
2019/09/11 23:14:22
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
He used the Mawloc to bring in the Warriors with the stratagem. Adrenal Glands give them 8" charge. I'm guessing saved a CP re-roll for it.
He doesn't like Hive Guard much for similar reasons that I'm turning off them as well. To quote myself here:
Spoiler:
Nitro Zeus wrote: I know it's going to sound like blasphemy, but I've been finding Hive Guard to be less and less effective. They are highly terrain dependant, which is sometimes a problem if you get the wrong table edge (or just the wrong table in some events - yes, I know they should be using more terrain, but the fact is plenty of places just don't), and also extremely match up dependant. Vs Knights for example they basically take an entire game of chewing up CP to down a single Knight which is basically not even worth doing, and they just get evaporated immediately vs anything with highly mobile shooting that can get an angle on them (Aeldari / Necron / Guard flyers for example) because even with the newer bases they still have a significant footprint. Let alone the amount of units that do "no-LoS" even better and don't even need LoS to delete them, like Broadsides. And in the mirror, you have no way of guaranteeing you shoot first, or if they have Flyrants for whatever reason (which aren't a top tier unit anymore but also aren't uncommon to see in some form) they can just chew em out. I take more than enough Gants to screen them out from deepstrikers, but blocking deepstriker threats just isn't enough to protect them anymore I think. They are decent when they are good, buy in the current state of the game they feel a little too coinflippy.
Seems like he preferred 7 Biovores instead for a similar role.
For what it's worth though, he also referred to this list as his "gak Nids" because people laughed at what he was bringing. Then 5-0'd them at a 70 man event though.
TBH other than the Mawloc and Warriors, it looks pretty good to me. And even that isn't terrible either, though I'd at least prefer a Trygon over the Mawloc or something that can have an impact, especially since it would let you move away from Jorm (maybe Behemoth for re-rolls on the Warriors).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/11 23:16:12
2019/09/12 01:03:35
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Badablack wrote: Well he’s got psychic shutdown with the Kronos Biovores, a turn 1 delivery system with the Kraken Swarmlord + genestealers, and a solid rock of troops with the Jorm Warriors. Not all that damaging but it covers all your bases and denies all your opponent’s.
That looks like a fine list, I'm guessing he usually tunnels in the Warriors. And he has two Kraken swarms of Stealers that is a lot of force he can bring on in the first turn or so.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2019/09/12 10:51:13
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I doubt that he did charge with the warriors.
I have to check if you can do that geometrically, but It is more likely that he deep struck the mawlock in mortal wound range of a target, and tunneled the warriors on the far end of it, which should 9" away from the target. You double shoot the warriors (with prime bonus), keep the cover bonus and charge in the next turn.
Without the hive guards, he needed a good target for the double shoot stratagem, and those warriors are quite good for it.
Stealers are there for a shock attack turn 1 and additional pressure on turn 2. By turn 2 you are swarmed by the warriors, the mawlock and the gaunts. Broodlords go in for the final kills.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/12 10:53:47
2019/09/12 11:41:39
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I mean, that is his own words on what he did, he's an Australian itc player who I asked personally about the list. It's why he took something with AG, specifically to turn that 9" to an 8".
as for SMA targets, he had 2 full units of Biovores.
2019/09/12 12:42:47
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Spoletta wrote: I doubt that he did charge with the warriors.
I have to check if you can do that geometrically, but It is more likely that he deep struck the mawlock in mortal wound range of a target, and tunneled the warriors on the far end of it, which should 9" away from the target. You double shoot the warriors (with prime bonus), keep the cover bonus and charge in the next turn.
Without the hive guards, he needed a good target for the double shoot stratagem, and those warriors are quite good for it.
Stealers are there for a shock attack turn 1 and additional pressure on turn 2. By turn 2 you are swarmed by the warriors, the mawlock and the gaunts. Broodlords go in for the final kills.
Agreed. I see the warriors as a high Armor save fire base for double shoot. I think the mawloc was the mortal wound add on to finish off what biovores shot. Or perhaps pop him up behind a unit that the Genestealers charged to prevent them from falling back. But then again, this guy placed 2nd and I didn't. Maybe have to consider the warriors for the charge like he did.
What was the warlord trait for the broodlord??
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/12 14:44:36
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
He just considered the Warriors as another unit of Stealers. Except unlike Stealers, they get to shoot if they whiff the charge so they still have some impact (and also dirt cheap AG), and then cause of Jorm they get to sit there with a 3+ save and hopefully distract some fire while he gets in with other units.
He was double shooting Biovores vs Knights and vs Custodes, but you could always do it on the Warriors too. Either way they are still DS’ing and charging.
He said he’s dropping some Biovores for OOE. Also don’t consider this list some ironed out game plan, he had a bunch of untested ideas he threw into the list, and also got tabled in his first practice match which contributed to the list name “gak nids” but it was locked in for the event. Luckily for him he played it well and got that 2nd place finish.
2019/09/12 15:09:00
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Nitro Zeus wrote: He just considered the Warriors as another unit of Stealers. Except unlike Stealers, they get to shoot if they whiff the charge so they still have some impact (and also dirt cheap AG), and then cause of Jorm they get to sit there with a 3+ save and hopefully distract some fire while he gets in with other units.
He was double shooting Biovores vs Knights and vs Custodes, but you could always do it on the Warriors too. Either way they are still DS’ing and charging.
He said he’s dropping some Biovores for OOE. Also don’t consider this list some ironed out game plan, he had a bunch of untested ideas he threw into the list, and also got tabled in his first practice match which contributed to the list name “gak nids” but it was locked in for the event. Luckily for him he played it well and got that 2nd place finish.
What warlord trait did he take? One step ahead for GS buff?
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Anybody have recent experience running horde style lists? I've been wanting to pivot back to my Nids but all the lists I've built feel like they won't work out even at the early list building stage and I can't come up with a scenario where the big gun bugs live long enough to shoot or the big chompy bugs make it into cc. Everything just feels so expensive for their durability/offense.
Feeling like 210+ gaunts/gants as the core might be the way to go, but then the killing power is severely reduced so killed more is off the table and killed one is a struggle in ITC and the inherent clock issues with running that many models.
.
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
