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Warp Talons have a great special rule named Warpflame Strike. Warpflame Strike - Immediately after a unit of Warp Talons has arrived from reserve by Deep Strike, all enemy units withing 6" count as having been hit by a weapon with the Blind special rule.

What good is this if you can't charge because you chose to Deep Strike? According to the 6th ed Deep Strike rule all you are able to do is run or shoot and this unit has NO guns. If the enemy unit fails the initiative test Blind only affects the enemy unit this turn. The beginning of the next turn (your opponent's) your group is toast!

Why even give them a special rule for Deep Strike? It seems to me this is a bull rule and should have never been implemented.

Blind affects the enemy models until the end of THEIR next turn. Which, if the WT are used solo, makes it mostly a defensive benefit- if the enemy try to shoot and/or assault on your opponent's next turn, they're doing it at BS1/WS1.

The other option is to use it in coordination with your other units. Say, drop the WT in next to enemy units, then charge in with your own other units to take advantage of the WS1.

It's difficult to use, and the Initiative test makes it unreliable against most foes, but it's pretty darn good against Necrons and Orks.

The only ways I've been able to find to make it less risky in use are the Dimensional Key, or using Daemonic allies with Icons. The Icons from Daemons of Chaos work as homing beacons for "any friendly unit".

 Mannahnin wrote:
The Icons from Daemons of Chaos work as homing beacons for "any friendly unit".

Page 73 – Daemonic Gifts, Chaos Icon.
Change the second paragraph to read “When a friendly unit
chosen from Codex: Chaos Daemons Deep Strikes within 6" of an
Icon of Chaos, it does not roll for scatter, provided that the
icon was on the table from the beginning of the turn and has
not arrived from Reserve in the same turn.”

Sonovabitch.

I thought them removing any beacons from CSM and letting the Daemon ones work was a way of still allowing a limited amount of accuracy, via one of those (usually considered overpriced) C:CD icons.

Nevermind. GW doesn't want Daemons and CSM to have the obvious point of synergy.

I think that GW didn't want a repeat of 3.5 CSM....

No fear of that, rest assured.

You use their ability to neuter shooting units OR you also charge them with another assault unit to take advantage of the blinded unit.

Its all about synergy.

If there were any way to reliably do that (for example if the ability wasn't dependent on failing an Init test, and/or if it wasn't a 6" range on a unit with no way to improve the accuracy of its Deep Strike), it might be pretty good.

As it is, the high cost and low reliability (and real risk of killing your own unit if you drop close enough to use the ability) makes it something I expect to never see used in a tournament. :(

I might think about a list with warp talons if you had a dimension key on a combat lord.

It could work if you could rush into combat on a juggernaught or something that you knew would get you into cc quick enough.

On the 1st game I used them I commended them to tzeentch and DS in the middle of 4 marine units, rolled a hit and I was like feth yeah!, now we are gonna roll them, the 4 marine units passed their I test and shoot the talons to death. This ability only works againts non-marine/eldar armies, next time I'll just fly them from my table side with target saturation.

Even if you face a high initiative army they have some good damage potential.
The ability can be really handy but its not always usefull and the squad ain't cheap.

I however totally want them. Like lots of things in the codex, its not great cause its not 100% reliable, but when it payoff it really pays off, and then some.

Those 4 marine squads could have all been blinded, leaving your talons alive and causing havoc.

They COULD have all been blinded. It's just over a 1% chance for all four units to fail. Though of course sticking the landing to be in that dangerous spot within 6" of four different units is only ~ a 1/3 chance on the scatter. So if you try this move three hundred times, on average one of those three hundred times it will really work well!

Hey, Vanguards! When did you guys get those spikes?

Too bad you guys werent smart enough to go join BA...

Getting the key does not really help and adds to the already outrageous expense of the Warp Talons. If you have the key, you pretty much have to throw your Lord into CC asap before the Talons arrive, so you're risking him in challenges and such.

If they arrive before the key is activated, you have to risk them in an insane unguided deep-strike and render they key useless.

If you want to blind people, get the primaris Slaanesh power.

you can activate the key rather quick if you take huron/ahriman and a normal lord with the key.
Put your lord in a landraider together with some bezerkers or killy marines, infiltrate them, move up on turn 1, disembark, and assault. Most likely you will have the key activated on turn 1, together with an aegis with comms relay maens that next turn you can precision drop everything in your army like terminators, raptors, warp talons, obliterators, etc
your warptalons drop first, and terminators/raptors/obliterators shoot stuff that didn't got blinded, next turn it is slice and dice

Esparoba3 wrote:
you can activate the key rather quick if you take huron/ahriman and a normal lord with the key.
Put your lord in a landraider together with some bezerkers or killy marines, infiltrate them, move up on turn 1, disembark, and assault. Most likely you will have the key activated on turn 1, together with an aegis with comms relay maens that next turn you can precision drop everything in your army like terminators, raptors, warp talons, obliterators, etc
your warptalons drop first, and terminators/raptors/obliterators shoot stuff that didn't got blinded, next turn it is slice and dice

I was thinking that since the BS is dropped to 1, why not drop them by a HWS that is hurting your METUL BAWKES!!! The fact the they are now BS1 means that they hit on snap shots, so any templete weapons thats hurting your tanks/boyz can be just about silenced for their ensuing shooting phase.

You can only infiltrate infantry units with the Warlord Ifiltrate ability. And the Landraider is not a dedicated transport for anything but terminators, meaning you usually don't get to infiltrate it.

So no activating the Key early unless you do footslogging infiltrate.

Why not. The Warp Talons can run after deep striking and so eventually avoid getting heavily decimated by large shells.
If the enemy has shooty units in his back field, deep striking Warp Talons will give you a means to take them on quickly.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Sonovabitch.

I thought them removing any beacons from CSM and letting the Daemon ones work was a way of still allowing a limited amount of accuracy, via one of those (usually considered overpriced) C:CD icons.

Nevermind. GW doesn't want Daemons and CSM to have the obvious point of synergy.

yes, they want IoM to have crazy SW IG synergy but anything other than broken epi cheese is out. CSM shouldnt have any allies

 Exergy wrote:


yes, they want IoM to have crazy SW IG synergy but anything other than broken epi cheese is out. CSM shouldnt have any allies

It is getting rather blatant, isn't it?

"Divination Rune Priests for everyone! But, umm, icons working across allies is just too broken."

If you play very laid back casual games, you may want to Deep Strike your Talons. It'll still be a long shot, but you'll have fun the 10% of the time it does something, and shrug off the rest.

Otherwise, really, don't bother. Between not knowing when they arrive, full scatter every time, requiring the most dangeorus Deep Strike to be useful and the high Initiative of the targets, it's just a testament to how much GW doesn't play-test its stuff.

 Sephyr wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


yes, they want IoM to have crazy SW IG synergy but anything other than broken epi cheese is out. CSM shouldnt have any allies

It is getting rather blatant, isn't it?

"Divination Rune Priests for everyone! But, umm, icons working across allies is just too broken."

If you play very laid back casual games, you may want to Deep Strike your Talons. It'll still be a long shot, but you'll have fun the 10% of the time it does something, and shrug off the rest.

Otherwise, really, don't bother. Between not knowing when they arrive, full scatter every time, requiring the most dangeorus Deep Strike to be useful and the high Initiative of the targets, it's just a testament to how much GW doesn't play-test its stuff.

I really dont see why IG isnt BB with Chaos. There are more traitor guardsmen than their are spacemarines.

Esparoba3 wrote:
you can activate the key rather quick if you take huron/ahriman and a normal lord with the key.
Put your lord in a landraider together with some bezerkers or killy marines, infiltrate them, move up on turn 1, disembark, and assault. Most likely you will have the key activated on turn 1, together with an aegis with comms relay maens that next turn you can precision drop everything in your army like terminators, raptors, warp talons, obliterators, etc
your warptalons drop first, and terminators/raptors/obliterators shoot stuff that didn't got blinded, next turn it is slice and dice

You can't charge if you infiltrate on the first turn, you need to go second for this to work, and that would mean that you let your LR on range for something that might be able to open it. However from tailoring an infinite number of lists paying talons & a land raider is just way to expensive, not to mention that besides being expensive the warptalons aren't fearless and don't have grenades so even with the LCs if you attemp to charge some unit after deepstriking behind his lines you are going at I1.

Aaaaaanyway, out of all the options I've been trying the most viable one to me still seems to be target saturation of fast units. I'm planning on fielding 10 of them with a jump pack lord, all with MoN so that they can shrug small firearms and hope the enemy big guns focus on the rest of the targets (8 bikes, 2 helbrutes, 1 rhino and 1 maulerfiend). Hopefully that will allow the talons to get into combat for 2nd turn and with whatever manages to reach the other side wreck havoc on the opponent's deployment

Seems pretty useful to me if you're fighting necrons or orks. If not, don't deep strike them.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Seems pretty useful to me if you're fighting necrons or orks. If not, don't deep strike them.

-Matt

/thread